The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Breaking News => Topic started by: bijou on February 11, 2013, 05:08:10 AM
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(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/11/article-2276884-177B0EE9000005DC-440_468x311.jpg)
Pope Benedict is to stand down as leader of the Catholic church, it was reported today.
The Pontiff has been in office since April 2005 when he succeeded Pope John Paul II.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2276884/BREAKING-NEWS-Pope-Benedict-stand-down.html#ixzz2KaVAjFia
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Wow. First time in 600 years. Wonder what's up with that?
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Wow. First time in 600 years. Wonder what's up with that?
Nothing's been announced yet but speculation is that he is ill.
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Dear Brothers,
I have convoked you to this Consistory, not only for the three canonisations, but also to communicate to you a decision of great importance for the life of the Church. After having repeatedly examined my conscience before God, I have come to the certainty that my strengths, due to an advanced age, are no longer suited to an adequate exercise of the Petrine ministry.
I am well aware that this ministry, due to its essential spiritual nature, must be carried out not only with words and deeds, but no less with prayer and suffering. However, in today’s world, subject to so many rapid changes and shaken by questions of deep relevance for the life of faith, in order to govern the bark of Saint Peter and proclaim the Gospel, both strength of mind and body are necessary, strength which in the last few months, has deteriorated in me to the extent that I have had to recognise my incapacity to adequately fulfil the ministry entrusted to me.
For this reason, and well aware of the seriousness of this act, with full freedom I declare that I renounce the ministry of Bishop of Rome, Successor of Saint Peter, entrusted to me by the Cardinals on 19 April 2005, in such a way, that as from 28 February 2013, at 20:00 hours, the See of Rome, the See of Saint Peter, will be vacant and a Conclave to elect the new Supreme Pontiff will have to be convoked by those whose competence it is.
Dear Brothers, I thank you most sincerely for all the love and work with which you have supported me in my ministry and I ask pardon for all my defects. And now, let us entrust the Holy Church to the care of Our Supreme Pastor, Our Lord Jesus Christ, and implore his holy Mother Mary, so that she may assist the Cardinal Fathers with her maternal solicitude, in electing a new Supreme Pontiff. With regard to myself, I wish to also devotedly serve the Holy Church of God in the future through a life dedicated to prayer.
From the Vatican, 10 February 2013
BENEDICTUS PP XVI
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/11/pope-resigns-live-reaction
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update:
Father Federico Lombardi, spokesman of the Holy See said that the Pope made the announcement personally, in Latin, during the Consistory of Cardinals.
Benedict XVI intends to step down on February 28.
The Vatican's statement on the patter said that the Pope said that "He no longer has adequate strength to continue in office due to his advanced age," and that the decision was his ans his alone.
...
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4343589,00.html
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Wow. First time in 600 years. Wonder what's up with that?
Wow, really?
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Wow, really?
The last one to resign was Pope Gregory XII in 1415.
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Eaxctly, tx. Gregory XII resigned in order to heal a schism within the Church.
But, now things get 'interesting.' I'll explain later. Nadin 'St. Malachy' and look around.
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Eaxctly, tx. Gregory XII resigned in order to heal a schism within the Church.
But, now things get 'interesting.' I'll explain later. Nadin 'St. Malachy' and look around.
Interesting isn't the word for it Dragoon.
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And right on cue...her comes the hate. twitchy is catching all the disguting posts.
http://twitchy.com/2013/02/11/pope-benedict-xvi-resigns-and-moral-cretins-tweet-hate-death-wishes-resign-by-slitting-your-wrists/
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So what is the sequence of events in this case? Does the College of the Cardinals select a new pope now, or wait until Pope Benedict steps down before deciding on a new one?
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So what is the sequence of events in this case? Does the College of the Cardinals select a new pope now, or wait until Pope Benedict steps down before deciding on a new one?
I think he's resigning as of the end of this month and the Cardinals will then gather in the Sistine Chapel after that.There will be a new Pope named by the end of March which is Easter Sunday but i could be wrong.The timing of this is what is most interesting to me.
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I think I've been through 2 popes in my life time? I don't know. It doesn't affect me. I'm Baptist.
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I think he's resigning as of the end of this month and the Cardinals will then gather in the Sistine Chapel after that.There will be a new Pope named by the end of March which is Easter Sunday but i could be wrong.The timing of this is what is most interesting to me.
The timing means that there should be a new Pope for Easter, which I suspect was the guiding principle over the schedule.
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And in other news, Captain Zero annulls his marriage, converts to Catholicism, and takes a crash course in being a priest...
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I think I've been through 2 popes in my life time? I don't know. It doesn't affect me. I'm Baptist.
I am Klingon. We killed our gods 1,500 years ago, because they got to be more trouble than they were worth.
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The timing means that there should be a new Pope for Easter, which I suspect was the guiding principle over the schedule.
Yeah.
I'm still stunned. This is a historic event.
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So what is the sequence of events in this case? Does the College of the Cardinals select a new pope now, or wait until Pope Benedict steps down before deciding on a new one?
IIRC...they will wait until his last official day is complete then convene the College of Cardinals just like if the Pope had died.
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And in other news, Captain Zero annulls his marriage, converts to Catholicism, and takes a crash course in being a priest...
Breath taking this news.
Did the Butlers trial do him in ????
As He the Pope who spoke directly to God have been sand bagged by the politics of his Cardnels ???
Has his confidence in the Bishops and Cardnals become so undermined he just gives up before he has an unfortunate accident ???
Sign of the times.
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IIRC...they will wait until his last official day is complete then convene the College of Cardinals just like if the Pope had died.
As soon as the Throne of Peter is vacant (in this instance 8pm on 28 February) the governance of the Church falls to the Sacred College, and soon thereafter they will move into conclave for the election. Unlike the case where the vacancy is caused by a death there won't have to be the usual period of mourning and burial of the deceased Pontiff; also, as the announcement has been made now, they know in advance when the vacancy will occur.
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Oh vesta, shaddup.
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They don't make them like they used to.
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As I alluded to before, St. Malachy (or 'Malachi' as an alternate spelling) had some sort of prophesy about the future Popes. The thing is, he's named a characteristic of all of the succeeding holders of the Chair of Peter--and the characteristics named have applied to every one of them in turn. The last Pope was named as 'fruit of the olive.' Lo, Benedictine priests are related to olives (hence, Benedict XVI). There's one more Pope listed . . . then, speculation is that the Final Tribulation would be upon the world, and the Catholic Church will be rocked by some sort of schism.
The next Pope is supposed to be 'Peter the Roman.' Not sure who fits that reference, among the College of Cardinals.
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This is the last one.
We are screwn. :-)
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Breath taking this news.
Did the Butlers trial do him in ????
As He the Pope who spoke directly to God have been sand bagged by the politics of his Cardnels ???
Has his confidence in the Bishops and Cardnals become so undermined he just gives up before he has an unfortunate accident ???
Sign of the times.
or being 85 years old and tired could be it too. ::)
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I'm thinking if the Pope can step down, why can't Queen Elizabeth give poor ol' Prince Charlie a break?
Those tweets are vicious and totally uncalled for. Wonder how many people would mouth off that way if confronted in real life by the subject of their malevolence. Are they stupid, evil or both? :mad:
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or being 85 years old and tired could be it too. ::)
Only vesta (and Nadin) can misspell "Cardinal" two different ways in a single post.
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IIRC...they will wait until his last official day is complete then convene the College of Cardinals just like if the Pope had died.
What is their field of candidates? So many of them are old. Pope John Paul II wasn't much older than the current one and served almost 30 years.
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While this is sudden, it's not that much of a surprise, actually. Pope Benedict has said before that if his health prohibits him to perform his duties, he'd step down.
He actually asked to retire from his previous position, but JPII didn't let him.
It's also a symbolic move, doing this during Lent. Some church experts are calling it a "teachable moment." JPII taught Catholics how to deal with failing health with faith. Benedict--the thought goes--is teaching us humility.
Check out www.newadvent.com for some interesting--purely Catholic--perspective, if you're interested.
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Congratulations, vesta--when coach has to tell you to "shut up", you've definitely reached the big-time of asshattery.
Time to start limiting your posts to 10 words or less again. And then deleting them.
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I'm thinking if the Pope can step down, why can't Queen Elizabeth give poor ol' Prince Charlie a break?
Those tweets are vicious and totally uncalled for. Wonder how many people would mouth off that way if confronted in real life by the subject of their malevolence. Are they stupid, evil or both? :mad:
Well the Pope has power and oversees the Roman Catholic Church as a whole, whereas the HMS is only a figurehead. She can still change the succession even though Charles is heir apparent.....
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Since he is the first to resign since the Great Schism. I've always wondered what would happen if there were 3 Catholic churches, French, Roman, and Greek Orthodox.
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Since he is the first to resign since the Great Schism. I've always wondered what would happen if there were 3 Catholic churches, French, Roman, and Greek Orthodox.
Congratulations, vesta--when coach has to tell you to "shut up", you've definitely reached the big-time of asshattery.
Time to start limiting your posts to 10 words or less again. And then deleting them.
Well shut my mouth here. Half my family and children are Catholic and this is unprecedented in 600 years. Total shock to me and my family, even the Protestant members.
Wasn't that many months ago the Popes closest ad visor went on trial for leaking confidential documents to the public and found Guilty.
For the non Catholics here the Pope was the last resort for decency for many millions around the world.
He was known as PAPA for a reason, He was strict but fair and lived a hard life of isolation, like being in jail with no vacations or going into public to intermingle with the common man.
No.1 worse job in the world as I see it, history shows that those Popes before him had short times at their post due to politics within the church or the Cardinals wanting his job---Strange that.
So whats with age aside made him decide to go back into the life he had before he became Pope ???
My daughter called me all up set to wonder if the next Pope will be the last one. Something she read about.
More and more people are going into the Bible to understand the last chapter and wondering if the last days of Good teachers are over and the future will bring in the warnings about the dark Angle of light---666
I have no problem with Frank, he I expect is as shocked and surprised as the rest of the world. We had a darn good teacher and leader that out of the blue throws up his hands and says " I Quite".
Carrots. You left out Russian Orthodox and Ethiopian Orthodox and the monks that guard the so called birth place of Jesus, who ever they are. Mom tells me they were scarey when she was over there to visit one year.
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Vesta, please....
(http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/155/849/stop-posting.gif)
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Carrots. You left out Russian Orthodox and Ethiopian Orthodox and the monks that guard the so called birth place of Jesus, who ever they are. Mom tells me they were scarey when she was over there to visit one year.
Some people consider Russian and Ethiopian as part of the Greek Orthodox umbrella.
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Breath taking this news.
Did the Butlers trial do him in ????
As He the Pope who spoke directly to God have been sand bagged by the politics of his Cardnels ???
Has his confidence in the Bishops and Cardnals become so undermined he just gives up before he has an unfortunate accident ???
Sign of the times.
:lalala: :yourpoint:
:urmeds:
:chill: :chill: :chill:
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Vesta, please....
(http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/155/849/stop-posting.gif)
Sorry Sparky, but this upsets me and I now wonder how the world will react to this. Last thing the world expected and a shock to all faiths. For most of us the Catholic Church is the Mother Church that spawned all other Christian beliefs. Martin Luther started the spawning in Europe that led to the children of the Mother Church.
I have family that are aghast that this has happened, Baptist, on to 10 other denominations, that still find a tie to the Mother Church, Peter and the rock he built on. All Christianity comes from the Mother Church, one way or the other.
Now Mother has quit and leaves us, not a good thing. What are we to think, what is coming next ?
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Obama’s statement on Pope Benedict XVI mentions ‘I’ four times (http://twitchy.com/2013/02/11/surprise-obamas-statement-on-pope-benedict-xvi-mentions-i-four-times/)
Obama is a ****ing dumbass.
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My people haven't had a dog in this fight since October 31, 1519.
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Sorry Sparky, but this upsets me and I now wonder how the world will react to this. Last thing the world expected and a shock to all faiths. For most of us the Catholic Church is the Mother Church that spawned all other Christian beliefs. Martin Luther started the spawning in Europe that led to the children of the Mother Church.
I have family that are aghast that this has happened, Baptist, on to 10 other denominations, that still find a tie to the Mother Church, Peter and the rock he built on. All Christianity comes from the Mother Church, one way or the other.
Now Mother has quit and leaves us, not a good thing. What are we to think, what is coming next ?
Actually the Baptist did not spawn from the Catholic church.
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My people haven't had a dog in this fight since October 31, 1519.
Though, to tell you the truth, if the next guy is a Roman dude named Peter, I'm gonna shit a brick.
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Some people consider Russian and Ethiopian as part of the Greek Orthodox umbrella.
The Russians (along with various others) are eastern Orthodox and so are in communion with the Greeks. The Ethiopians are oriental orthodox who split off from the Catholic Church even earlier than the eastern Orthodox (over the Council of Chalcedon) and aren't in communion with the Greeks.
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Obama’s statement on Pope Benedict XVI mentions ‘I’ four times (http://twitchy.com/2013/02/11/surprise-obamas-statement-on-pope-benedict-xvi-mentions-i-four-times/)
Obama is a ****ing dumbass.
(http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4563450897368335&pid=1.7)
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(http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4563450897368335&pid=1.7)
:hi5: :rotf:
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IIRC...they will wait until his last official day is complete then convene the College of Cardinals just like if the Pope had died.
Pretty sure that's correct. I'm going to ask St. Mom of the up north Parents when she calls tonight to ask me if I heard this. :-)
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What is their field of candidates? So many of them are old. Pope John Paul II wasn't much older than the current one and served almost 30 years.
Technically, their field of candidates is all unmarried Catholic men - in reality the Sacred College will elect one of their own. All Cardinals who are under the age of 80 at the time of the vacancy (in this case 28 February) are eligible to vote, which will mean that there are 117 voting Cardinals (unless one of them dies beforehand) in the conclave.
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The Russians (along with various others) are eastern Orthodox and so are in communion with the Greeks. The Ethiopians are oriental orthodox who split off from the Catholic Church even earlier than the eastern Orthodox (over the Council of Chalcedon) and aren't in communion with the Greeks.
Interesting I don't know much about the Catholic churches. Learn something new every day.
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Though, to tell you the truth, if the next guy is a Roman dude named Peter, I'm gonna shit a brick.
You and me both!
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Though, to tell you the truth, if the next guy is a Roman dude named Peter, I'm gonna shit a brick.
I'll be heading to confession most rikki tik. Don't wait up. I'll be awhile. A solid month of novenas will take care of most of my penance....
...I hope.
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So what is the sequence of events in this case? Does the College of the Cardinals select a new pope now, or wait until Pope Benedict steps down before deciding on a new one?
Being the Catholicism geek that I am, I read the relevant apostolic constitution earlier today - the Conclave has to wait for fifteen days after the vacancy arises before it meets, this is because it assumes the vacancy will arise from death and so be unexpected and thus there is a necessity of giving their Eminences time to get to Rome. His Holiness could dispense them from the requirement to wait, but if he does not do so before he resigns then the Cardinals cannot decide to convene early.
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The Russians (along with various others) are eastern Orthodox and so are in communion with the Greeks. The Ethiopians are oriental orthodox who split off from the Catholic Church even earlier than the eastern Orthodox (over the Council of Chalcedon) and aren't in communion with the Greeks.
Interesting. I wonder who is going to be the next pope.
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Interesting. I wonder who is going to be the next pope.
I talked to my buddy Vinnie an' he says he can twist all the right arms to get me an inside track, for just a little "consideration fee". :fuelfire:
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I saw something on Fox News' site today about the possible successors. They mentioned a cardinal who used to be head of the Archdiocese of Quebec, who is now in Rome--Marc Ouellet is his name, and he's 68--and Cardinal Ouellet shows up on the Reuters list as well. Others on the Reuters list (which is far more extensive):
Joao Braz de Aviz (65) of Brazil
Timothy Dolan (62--a serious longshot)
Gianfranco Ravasi (70) of Italy
Leonardo Sandri (69) of Argentina
Odilo Pedro Scherer (63) of Brazil
Christoph Schoenborn (67) of Austria
Angelo Scola, also from Italy (71--Archdiocese of Milan, long considered to be the springboard to the papacy)
Luis Tagle (55) of the Phillipines
and . . .
Peter Turkson (64) of Ghana.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/11/us-pope-succession-candidates-idUSBRE91A0FL20130211
My wife seems to think that Cardinal Dolan is going to be the new Pope. I don't think so. I think that Cardinal Peter Turkson will be the next Pope, myself . . .
Maybe he'll be known as 'Peter the Roman.'
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There's also Odilo Pedro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro) Scherer
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I saw something on Fox News' site today about the possible successors. They mentioned a cardinal who used to be head of the Archdiocese of Quebec, who is now in Rome--Marc Ouellet is his name, and he's 68--and Cardinal Ouellet shows up on the Reuters list as well. Others on the Reuters list (which is far more extensive):
Joao Braz de Aviz (65) of Brazil
Timothy Dolan (62--a serious longshot)
Gianfranco Ravasi (70) of Italy
Leonardo Sandri (69) of Argentina
Odilo Pedro Scherer (63) of Brazil
Christoph Schoenborn (67) of Austria
Angelo Scola, also from Italy (71--Archdiocese of Milan, long considered to be the springboard to the papacy)
Luis Tagle (55) of the Phillipines
and . . .
Peter Turkson (64) of Ghana.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/11/us-pope-succession-candidates-idUSBRE91A0FL20130211
My wife seems to think that Cardinal Dolan is going to be the new Pope. I don't think so. I think that Cardinal Peter Turkson will be the next Pope, myself . . .
Maybe he'll be known as 'Peter the Roman.'
Ok, so the dummies started a thread about him being next Pope. :panic:
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Interesting I don't know much about the Catholic churches. Learn something new every day.
By the way, Catholic simply means "universal." An Orthodox Christian would consider themselves to belong to a catholic church, as stated in the Nicene Creed, but we do not call ourselves "Catholic."
I'm a former protestant who converted to Orthodox Christianity and attended a Catholic high school and two Catholic colleges. I'm happy to serve as a resource for anybody's questions on Orthodoxy. In the mean time, I'll be enjoying meat for the next month because our Lent doesn't begin until March 18th. :yahoo:
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There's also Odilo Pedro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro) Scherer
Yeah I saw that too. Two of the candidates with the one name the world doesn't need appearing as the new Pope.
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Actually the Baptist did not spawn from the Catholic church.
Unless something has changed in the last couple of years, that sentiment is something that is very hotly debated. As a Baptist myself, I wouldn't state it as fact.
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I saw something on Fox News' site today about the possible successors. They mentioned a cardinal who used to be head of the Archdiocese of Quebec, who is now in Rome--Marc Ouellet is his name, and he's 68--and Cardinal Ouellet shows up on the Reuters list as well. Others on the Reuters list (which is far more extensive):
Joao Braz de Aviz (65) of Brazil
Timothy Dolan (62--a serious longshot)
Gianfranco Ravasi (70) of Italy
Leonardo Sandri (69) of Argentina
Odilo Pedro Scherer (63) of Brazil
Christoph Schoenborn (67) of Austria
Angelo Scola, also from Italy (71--Archdiocese of Milan, long considered to be the springboard to the papacy)
Luis Tagle (55) of the Phillipines
and . . .
Peter Turkson (64) of Ghana.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/11/us-pope-succession-candidates-idUSBRE91A0FL20130211
My wife seems to think that Cardinal Dolan is going to be the new Pope. I don't think so. I think that Cardinal Peter Turkson will be the next Pope, myself . . .
Maybe he'll be known as 'Peter the Roman.'
Yeah I think so too, but if an Italian gets it we may be in trouble according to St Malachi! :-)
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Sorry Sparky, but this upsets me and I now wonder how the world will react to this. Last thing the world expected and a shock to all faiths. For most of us the Catholic Church is the Mother Church that spawned all other Christian beliefs. Martin Luther started the spawning in Europe that led to the children of the Mother Church.
I have family that are aghast that this has happened, Baptist, on to 10 other denominations, that still find a tie to the Mother Church, Peter and the rock he built on. All Christianity comes from the Mother Church, one way or the other.
Now Mother has quit and leaves us, not a good thing. What are we to think, what is coming next ?
um NOPE! I am not sure if you are aware of this but the man you call Jesus with the title of Christ was a JEW. Christian beliefs come from the following of the New Covenant (Testament) ; not from Catholicism. The New Covenant was written by Jews and not by Catholics.
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Yeah I think so too, but if an Italian gets it we may be in trouble according to St Malachi! :-)
The last Pope, according to St. Malachi, is 'Peter the Roman.' Hence, my bolding of Cardinal Turkson's name.
I loved what Cardinal Dolan said to the Today Show when they asked him if he'd vote for himself. According to the New York Post, "Dolan deadpanned, 'Crazy people cannot enter the conclave.'"
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And right on cue...her comes the hate. twitchy is catching all the disguting posts.
http://twitchy.com/2013/02/11/pope-benedict-xvi-resigns-and-moral-cretins-tweet-hate-death-wishes-resign-by-slitting-your-wrists/
WOW
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um NOPE! I am not sure if you are aware of this but the man you call Jesus with the title of Christ was a JEW. Christian beliefs come from the following of the New Covenant (Testament) ; not from Catholicism. The New Covenant was written by Jews and not by Catholics.
True and people forget that or refuse to admit it. Way I see it, the Jews that followed the New Covenant
after a generation or so had broken with the Old Ways and distanced themselves somewhat from the people that followed the old ways, the Jews.
Allways wondered why the Christians still held on to Some of the old ways, Passover for one and the Bible Story's of Noah and 101 other story's were taught in sunday school as teachings from the Old Testament.
BTW this stuff about Peter the Roman, could that not refer to not a personal name but a description of any man that sits in the Throne of Peter as the Pope does in Rome.
Then there is the coincidence of the Vatican being struck twice by lightning the night of the Announcement of big changes coming on .
Then the Popes own Brother tells of the Popes struggles with the Cardinals and Bishops that just wore him down.
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What?
I could go into a lot about misinterpretation but I won't cause its really long. But What?
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True and people forget that or refuse to admit it. Way I see it, the Jews that followed the New Covenant
after a generation or so had broken with the Old Ways and distanced themselves somewhat from the people that followed the old ways, the Jews.
Allways wondered why the Christians still held on to Some of the old ways, Passover for one and the Bible Story's of Noah and 101 other story's were taught in sunday school as teachings from the Old Testament.
BTW this stuff about Peter the Roman, could that not refer to not a personal name but a description of any man that sits in the Throne of Peter as the Pope does in Rome.
Then there is the coincidence of the Vatican being struck twice by lightning the night of the Announcement of big changes coming on .
Then the Popes own Brother tells of the Popes struggles with the Cardinals and Bishops that just wore him down.
Holy Shit! :thatsright: Here Vesta...."Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." Christ was Israels final sacrificial offering to God.
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Holy Shit! :thatsright: Here Vesta...."Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." Christ was Israels final sacrificial offering to God.
Don't agree, it was the the Jewish Pharisees who feared Rome.
Time and place in history 2000 years ago. A time when 100's of men walked about claiming to be the Savior. Romens were facing rebellion from the Jews, and the Jews scared shit of the Romans. Jesus being a common name at the time was denoted as Jesus of Nazareth to separate him from others of that name.
Jesus did only once told in the Good Book play politics when he told his people to " Rend into Cesar what is Cesar's and conscription into Cesar's Army's --and rend into God what is his."
The Pharisees walking a fine line became concerned that the shaky ribbon that kept the Romans from going against them was to insure no one came in to cause any trouble. The lives of all Jews depended on keeping Rome at bay and not going after them. This Jew like John the Baptist was becoming a problem and who knew when a firestorm would not ignite. John had lost his head by now and Jesus of Nazareth was next in line.
The Romans found no fault with Jesus so the Bible says, but the Pharisees were really alarmed at the consequence of Jesus continuing to gather followers.
Not for religious reasons but political reasons to not get Rome upset with them.
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Vesta? I have an idea on what you can give up for Lent.
See if you can guess what it is.
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Don't agree, it was the the Jewish Pharisees who feared Rome.
Time and place in history 2000 years ago. A time when 100's of men walked about claiming to be the Savior. Romens were facing rebellion from the Jews, and the Jews scared shit of the Romans. Jesus being a common name at the time was denoted as Jesus of Nazareth to separate him from others of that name.
Jesus did only once told in the Good Book play politics when he told his people to " Rend into Cesar what is Cesar's and conscription into Cesar's Army's --and rend into God what is his."
The Pharisees walking a fine line became concerned that the shaky ribbon that kept the Romans from going against them was to insure no one came in to cause any trouble. The lives of all Jews depended on keeping Rome at bay and not going after them. This Jew like John the Baptist was becoming a problem and who knew when a firestorm would not ignite. John had lost his head by now and Jesus of Nazareth was next in line.
The Romans found no fault with Jesus so the Bible says, but the Pharisees were really alarmed at the consequence of Jesus continuing to gather followers.
Not for religious reasons but political reasons to not get Rome upset with them.
Holy Shit! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: Vesta dear it may be time for a cat scan! I'm speechless.....
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Don't agree, it was the the Jewish Pharisees who feared Rome.
Time and place in history 2000 years ago. A time when 100's of men walked about claiming to be the Savior. Romens were facing rebellion from the Jews, and the Jews scared shit of the Romans. Jesus being a common name at the time was denoted as Jesus of Nazareth to separate him from others of that name.
Jesus did only once told in the Good Book play politics when he told his people to " Rend into Cesar what is Cesar's and conscription into Cesar's Army's --and rend into God what is his."
The Pharisees walking a fine line became concerned that the shaky ribbon that kept the Romans from going against them was to insure no one came in to cause any trouble. The lives of all Jews depended on keeping Rome at bay and not going after them. This Jew like John the Baptist was becoming a problem and who knew when a firestorm would not ignite. John had lost his head by now and Jesus of Nazareth was next in line.
The Romans found no fault with Jesus so the Bible says, but the Pharisees were really alarmed at the consequence of Jesus continuing to gather followers.
Not for religious reasons but political reasons to not get Rome upset with them.
Oh your poor poor girl; Jesus is not and has never been a common Jewish name. The name Jesus is not Jewish at all. The name Jesus is GREEK. The man the Bible names Jesus was Yeshua which was a common name translated to English as Joshua.
The Pharisees and Sadducee's tried Yeshua for braking Mitzvah and claiming to be GOD, for healing on Sabbath, for miracles and for castigating them on their faith and perverting of the Temple. HE showed them how they put their own power and greed above Faith in his Father. It had NOTHING to do with rebellion against Rome.
I wonder if you are one of those people that believes when Yeshua sad to turn the other cheek he was speaking about being meek and humble and ultimately pacifism?
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Oh your poor poor girl; Jesus is not and has never been a common Jewish name. The name Jesus is not Jewish at all. The name Jesus is GREEK. The man the Bible names Jesus was Yeshua which was a common name translated to English as Joshua.
The Pharisees and Sadducee's tried Yeshua for braking Mitzvah and claiming to be GOD, for healing on Sabbath, for miracles and for castigating them on their faith and perverting of the Temple. HE showed them how they put their own power and greed above Faith in his Father. It had NOTHING to do with rebellion against Rome.
I wonder if you are one of those people that believes when Yeshua sad to turn the other cheek he was speaking about being meek and humble and ultimately pacifism?
In no way was Jesus a meek or mild man, nor was he a humble man or into pacifism. From what I have been taught, Jesus when angered could be fearsome. HE was not above beating up those that he felt defiled the Temple of his Father.
As those that study him as the Son of God and Divine, I try to study Him as from the Human side, what his live as a human Male on Mothers side---the line Jews follow in deciding how the line goes.
So I try to understand the times and thoughts of the history of his time. His mother and her sister, John the Baptists mother have history that is told different in different age old texts, in some John is his first cousin in others his uncle. Some believe Jesus was an only child others that he had brothers and sisters.
The lost 20 years of his life, where was he, was he studying or traveling ? What was the catalyst that sent him after all that time to begin gathering up Disciples both Jew and Pagan.
Fascinating time and a turning point in history for the people up to today. A simple Carpenter that most likely worked with his Earth father building boats. True in some passages he confused his own family about what HE was all about.
Politics has allways been the problem of the people of any faith. Reading Romans poor Paul had his run ins with Rome.
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I'm joining ya, Coach . . .
(http://strangeherring.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/300px-cordrazine_frenzy.jpg)
I checked PaddyPower last night, and my wife said, in no uncertain terms, that I was not to place a bet on any Papal candidate. So, I decided to be smart about it, and follow her suggestion.
Something that was pointed out, though, was that neither of the last two Popes were the odds-on favorites to begin their respective conclaves.
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I can see that vesta is, as usual, a bit slow on the uptake re: my suggestion.
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I can see that vesta is, as usual, a bit slow on the uptake re: my suggestion.
I am going to get a migraine from banging my head against that wall. :banghead:
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I am going to get a migraine from banging my head against that wall. :banghead:
You will be in a long line of people that have done a head bang when I first started asking questions as a youngster when I first began to wonder why adults thought as they did.
Seemed at that time into today when I ask questions no one can answer they get angry with me. You know kids we ask allot of why questions and learn that adults with no answer just say --because I said so---.
Once an Adult with children of my own I found they asked the same questions as I did and found I had to give them some answer from somewhere. Spent hours in a library to find some kind of answer for them, My kids did not ask questions on religion as I did so it was easy with a Encyclopedia to find answers of some sort.
When the questions came about the strange stuff, as in are Ghosts real, then the fun stuff happend. I said NO but then when the kids became Adults and visited Gettysburg they swore they heard sounds and odd things going on.
So my interest is in religion, all faiths, how did it start, who started it, why the traditions passed down for hundreds of years. Nothing to get alarmed about, curiosity sent me into the workings of the so called Satanists and off to the Wicca.
Mormons came to my door with their book of Mormon, Jehovah Witnesses show up with very interesting pamphlets.
What I have so far learned is that Mankind needs God more then God needs us. Mankind cannot survive in a God less world, we are coming to that point in time.
The Muslim faith worship a god and his front man that are Evil some say. A God that wishes to keep their people from advancing into knowledge and perhaps question their leaders. Or is it the leaders that wish no one question them ????
I question all when it comes to faith, where did it come from and why do people give their lives to defend their beliefs.???? How Do some survive by following their faiths, Quakers were run out of town in my area and Catholics left to form a new state. Interesting study religion, seems lately one island in Indonesia is today burning at the stake so called witches, a semi Catholic culture with the old Pagan ideas mixed in.
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BS for vesta . . . just because of the crazy that's spouting from her.
PaddyPower now has an Italian archbishop, Angelo Scola, as the 7:2 favorite. Cardinal Marc Ouellet has slipped to 4:1, in a tie with Cardinal Peter Turkson. Cardinal Timothy Dolan has fallen to 40:1, in a tie with Cardinal Raymond Burke, whose archdiocese is in St. Louis.
And, because I like the photo . . .
(http://restlesspilgrim.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/cardinal_dolan.png)
Vesta, dear . . . take note.
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I am going to get a migraine from banging my head against that wall. :banghead:
In Klingon "jlwuQ" I have a headache.
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Don't agree, it was the the Jewish Pharisees who feared Rome.
<snip for sanity>
(https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6462257664/hD16C42EE/)
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Something that was pointed out, though, was that neither of the last two Popes were the odds-on favorites to begin their respective conclaves.
There's an old saying: "he who enters the conclave a Pope leaves it a Cardinal". For the most part it is an unexpected candidate who finally emerges.