The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: formerlurker on January 28, 2013, 01:55:24 PM
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Star Member srican69 (413 posts)
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Reason people buy AR-15 type guns is similar to the reason why people buy Huge SUVs...
Its been shown that SUV's are LESS safe compared to cars. When you include the probability of rollovers - its more likely that you will be hurt in one rather than in a humble car. But people continued to buy them, despite evidence to the contrary to the most cited reason viz.. " I want to feel safer" ...(a trend that continued until they got slammed by high oil prices).
A psychologist ( I forget his name) did a study ( that included the subjects being interviewed in partial state of sleep) and came to the conclusion that the reason people bought the vehicles was that the increased ground clearance gave them a feeling of superiority on the roads .. and that subconscious emotion was the main driver of the decision, more than any rational reason they gave when fully on guard.
My guess is that having a gun appeals to some reptilian primal instinct that is beyond all the prefrontal cortex reasoning that you can come up with .
I think we need to factor this while having a conversation with those gun totting reptiles ...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022273345
Response to srican69 (Original post)
Mon Jan 28, 2013, 02:23 PM
nick of time (299 posts)
9. I have an SUV because it's perfectly suited for farm work
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and I do like to go 4 wheeling, I also bought an AR-15 from a friend of mine for $300.00 because it's perfectly suited for shooting the coyotes that go after my chickens and ducks, not because of some reptillian primal instinct.
And your little insult of gun totting reptiles, no wonder we have such a divide in this country, and I mean both sides of the extreme.
Response to nick of time (Reply #9)
Mon Jan 28, 2013, 02:28 PM
Star Member Taverner (51,882 posts)
16. I thought pickup trucks were perfectly suited for farm work?
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Taverner being an expert.
Response to Taverner (Reply #16)
Mon Jan 28, 2013, 02:31 PM
nick of time (299 posts)
18. The pick ups are for the my 3 employees.
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I use a Ford Expidition for use around my farm.
Who the hell goes 4 wheeling in an Expedition?
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So does that mean that DUmmies who drive ***** cars and are afraid to touch a gun are girly men? It appears DUmmies only "think" they are thinking. Sometimes a cigar is really just a cigar. Why do you always insist there is a deeper meaning to everything DUmmies?
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Taverner should stick to his drugs instead of trying to figure out normal, decent folk.
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People buy guns with big magazines because Obama voters travel in packs.
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DUmmies should not discuss brain function.
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"A fear of weapons is a sign of emotional and sexual immaturity"
Some Psychologist by the name of Freud
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Response to nick of time (Reply #9)
Mon Jan 28, 2013, 02:28 PM
Star Member Taverner (51,882 posts)
16. I thought pickup trucks were perfectly suited for farm work?
Taverner, when you type people can tell you're stupid. Do you do it on purpose? Or is it the drugs?
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DUmmies should stick to more important questions...like....why do women buy large dildoes and vibrators... because it feels good....same for trucks and guns....because it feels good.
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So does that mean that DUmmies who drive ***** cars and are afraid to touch a gun are girly men? It appears DUmmies only "think" they are thinking. Sometimes a cigar is really just a cigar. Why do you always insist there is a deeper meaning to everything DUmmies?
Ask BJ Billy boy about that. :whistling:
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Because we can assmonkey. It';s called freedom , something that you ****ing lowlifes hate with every fiber of your being. Sorry Taverner that your two cell brain can't function well enough to get it but drugs do that to people. I bet your sorry ass would fight to the death to have access to all kinds of drugs but can't understand why normal civilized people want to own things that are legal.
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As my sigline has long noted, "Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting at least twice." I stress the "At least." Innumerable people have lost their lives through underestimating just how much life was left in an opponent recently engaged in mortal combat with them, and they don't always come at you singly nor do all shots hit or hit vital areas, no matter how good you think you are. Thirty rounds is a fair opening hand when the betting begins and the stakes are your life.
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As my sigline has long noted, "Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting at least twice." I stress the "At least." Innumerable people have lost their lives through underestimating just how much life was left in an opponent recently engaged in mortal combat with them, and they don't always come at you singly nor do all shots hit or hit vital areas, no matter how good you think you are. Thirty rounds is a fair opening hand when the betting begins and the stakes are your life.
I don't know how much truth there is to this, but my dad is friends with a detective. I think his service weapon is a 9mm. His personal weapon that he keeps on him at all times is a 22. He says that if he has pants on you can be sure he also has his 22. He says that he knows of a case where a guy was chasing someone. The guy being chased had a 45 or 40 or 9mm (I forget which). He shot the chaser five times and hit him each time, but the guy kept coming. He said the shooter didn't hit any vital organs and the rounds went through the guy. The detective's thoughts are if you hit someone five times with a 22 at least one of the rounds is going to bounce around inside the body and mess something up.
You guys are the weapons experts. Any truth to it?
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I don't know how much truth there is to this, but my dad is friends with a detective. I think his service weapon is a 9mm. His personal weapon that he keeps on him at all times is a 22. He says that if he has pants on you can be sure he also has his 22. He says that he knows of a case where a guy was chasing someone. The guy being chased had a 45 or 40 or 9mm (I forget which). He shot the chaser five times and hit him each time, but the guy kept coming. He said the shooter didn't hit any vital organs and the rounds went through the guy. The detective's thoughts are if you hit someone five times with a 22 at least one of the rounds is going to bounce around inside the body and mess something up.
You guys are the weapons experts. Any truth to it?
It's an approach not many would choose to emulate, but there is some merit to it. The single most important thing about a carry weapon is not its stopping power in some bullshit-artist gun-writer's opinion after shooting at gelatin blocks, but your OWN confidence in and proficiency with it.
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I don't know how much truth there is to this, but my dad is friends with a detective. I think his service weapon is a 9mm. His personal weapon that he keeps on him at all times is a 22. He says that if he has pants on you can be sure he also has his 22. He says that he knows of a case where a guy was chasing someone. The guy being chased had a 45 or 40 or 9mm (I forget which). He shot the chaser five times and hit him each time, but the guy kept coming. He said the shooter didn't hit any vital organs and the rounds went through the guy. The detective's thoughts are if you hit someone five times with a 22 at least one of the rounds is going to bounce around inside the body and mess something up.
You guys are the weapons experts. Any truth to it?
Shooting at somebody will make 8% of the populace stop what they are doing. Doesn't matter what you shoot at them. The noise and sight of a gun will make them stop and drop or duck. the other 20% are people that are on drugs, psychotic, or really pissed off. And what DAT said. My guess is in your story it was a 9mm and not a .45. I have no experience in .40 so can't tell you what it would do to the 20%ers.
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I don't know how much truth there is to this, but my dad is friends with a detective. I think his service weapon is a 9mm. His personal weapon that he keeps on him at all times is a 22. He says that if he has pants on you can be sure he also has his 22. He says that he knows of a case where a guy was chasing someone. The guy being chased had a 45 or 40 or 9mm (I forget which). He shot the chaser five times and hit him each time, but the guy kept coming. He said the shooter didn't hit any vital organs and the rounds went through the guy. The detective's thoughts are if you hit someone five times with a 22 at least one of the rounds is going to bounce around inside the body and mess something up.
You guys are the weapons experts. Any truth to it?
"The bullet will bounce around" is a common canard about the .22 LR. The bullets don't bounce around, the physics of it don't work that way. They may corkscrew or tumble through tissue, or be deflected by bone, but they will not reverse direction. Instead, the bullet will transfer its kinetic energy into the tissue.
Handgun don't really work like you see in the movies. A pistol bullet will not pick up a man and throw him backwards off his feet- if it did, it would throw the shooter back with equal force. For every action... Also, you can't count on an instantaneous stop from a brain or spinal cord hit during a gunfight. So, the three things a handgun bullet must do are: penetrate sufficiently to damage major organs and blood vessels; generate a permanent wound channel sufficiently large for blood to exit the organs and the body rapidly; and cause enough pain to distract and dispirit your assailant. Pain is a result of the energy transfer from bullet to flesh, and bullets which pass through the body do not transfer all of their energy into the target.
A .22 LR bullet may or may not expand, depending on the bullet shape, velocity, and whether or not it strikes bone while passing through tissue. Even if it doesn't expand, it still makes a 1/4 inch permanent wound channel and hurts like hell- two of the factors of handgun effectiveness. As I have said before, four .22s in the chest, then four in the face, will change the balance of power in any deadly force confrontation.
9mm ball (full metal jacket) and light jacketed hollowpoints are often moving too fast to expand inside the body. They hold their shape and generate a 3/8 inch diameter permanent wound channel through both sides of the body, but are less painful because they did not transfer all of their energy to the target. Better terminal performance in 9mm would come from the heavier, slower bullet, particularly the 147gr SJHP. An exception is the new Critical Defense round from Hornady, which is built to reliably expand from .355 inch to more than half an inch in diameter, causing a larger permanent wound channel and greater energy transfer.
.357, .40, .44, and .45 have almost identical success rates against human targets, for the same reason. These bullets penetrate deep into the torso, reliably expand and make a larger permanent wound channel, and transfer more energy into the target, causing greater pain. The tradeoff is slower rate of fire because of longer recovery time- except of course for my .45, which is as fast as lightning :-)
So, what does it all mean? Remember the first rule of gunfighting: Bring a gun. A .22 in the hand beats a .45 in the gun safe. Carry and shoot what you are comfortable with. A hit with a .22 beats a miss with a .44. Like DAT says, Anything worth shooting is worth shooting at least twice. If you carry a small caliber pistol (.22-.380) into a deadly force confrontation, shoot more. 4 to the chest, 4 to the face. Reload, and be prepared to continue the fight.
Note: I carry Hornady Critical Defense ammunition in all of my handguns, (.45 ACP, .357 Magnum, and .38 SPL +P) and recommend it without reservation. This is not a paid endorsement, although I wish it was.
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I have heard stories of people being shot multiple times with a .45 and still had enough energy to return fire or run down an alley to climb a fence and then bled out after they had been hit 12 times in non vital areas one of which took the left heel of the foot of the shooter. It's rare that it happens but I still wouldn't rely on anything smaller then a 9mm or a .380 to stop anyone. like the others have said its as much training and practice then the caliber but there are far more dead from the big hollow points then small .22's
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Its been shown that SUV's are LESS safe compared to cars.
As FL will also attest, the insurance companies will disagree with you. IIRC, if you've got a car with a wheelbase of less than 101-102 inches, prepare to pay more. A LOT more.
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Star Member srican69 (413 posts)
Reason people buy AR-15 type guns is similar to the reason why people buy Huge SUVs...
1. Because they WANT them.
2. Because they NEED them.
Everything else is pure (and WRONG) speculation on the DUmmie's part.
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With a Government all to willing to disarm it's own people while they engage in various illegal activities then I'd say that alone is good reason to own any type of weapon we the people can get. Everything from Ruby Ridge to the Hurricane Katrina illegal gun grab to giving guns to Mexican drug runners is more then enough reason to own guns.
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A psychologist ( I forget his name) did a study ( that included the subjects being interviewed in partial state of sleep) and came to the conclusion that the reason people bought the vehicles was that the increased ground clearance gave them a feeling of superiority on the roads .. and that subconscious emotion was the main driver of the decision, more than any rational reason they gave when fully on guard.
My guess is that having a gun appeals to some reptilian primal instinct that is beyond all the prefrontal cortex reasoning that you can come up with .
I think we need to factor this while having a conversation with those gun totting reptiles ..
I'd like to see a peer reviewed study of SUV and assault rifle preferences in other countries--Cuba, N. Korea, the old Soviet Union, for example--or is this reptilian primal instinct just an American phenomenon.