The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Breaking News => Topic started by: Wretched Excess on June 05, 2008, 12:49:23 PM
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Top 2 Air Force Officials to Resign
WASHINGTON — Both the top uniformed officer of the Air Force and its civilian leader have been asked to submit their resignations, FOX News confirms.
Air Force Chief of Staff Michael Moseley and Air Force Secretary Michael Wynne will resign by the end of the day, two sets of sources tell FOX News.
Defense Secretary Gates has publicly identified a number of problems recently with the Air Force, including last year's accidental flight of nuclear weapons on a B-52 bomber, a top ranking official who ran into contract problems.
Gates also recently spoke at the Air Force Academy describing the Air Force's sluggishness to step up its force readiness.
link (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,363495,00.html)
I hope the are ground for these dismissals. I don't know anything about the condition of the air force leadership, but clearing the deck like this looks bad.
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The AF has been real resistant to requests for their Predator and Global Hawk units to deploy to Afghanistan...the b-52 Nukes were bad enough...but something in my gut tells me that the whole fiasco over who got the new Tanker contract is at the heart of this.
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The AF has been real resistant to requests for their Predator and Global Hawk units to deploy to Afghanistan...the b-52 Nukes were bad enough...but something in my gut tells me that the whole fiasco over who got the new Tanker contract is at the heart of this.
I was wondering if the tanker deal had something to do with it, too. 10 years to decide between two tankers? and the thing is still in arbitration? someone screwed the pooch big time on that deal.
meanwhile, the KC-135s are barely staying in the air, from what I have been able to read.
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I was wondering if the tanker deal had something to do with it, too. 10 years to decide between two tankers? and the thing is still in arbitration? someone screwed the pooch big time on that deal.
meanwhile, the KC-135s are barely staying in the air, from what I have been able to read.
It must have been decided because they've been running radio ads here in D.C. lately talking about the new Northrop-Grumman KC-45 the "tanker of choice".
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I was wondering if the tanker deal had something to do with it, too. 10 years to decide between two tankers? and the thing is still in arbitration? someone screwed the pooch big time on that deal.
meanwhile, the KC-135s are barely staying in the air, from what I have been able to read.
It must have been decided because they've been running radio ads here in D.C. lately talking about the new Northrop-Grumman KC-45 the "tanker of choice".
boeing has filed a protest. I don't know if that actually means anything. pretty interesting comments on the tanker issue here (http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/aerospace/archives/139800.asp).
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boeing has filed a protest. I don't know if that actually means anything. pretty interesting comments on the tanker issue here (http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/aerospace/archives/139800.asp).
As with everything in D.C. they just need to follow the money.
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The AF has been real resistant to requests for their Predator and Global Hawk units to deploy to Afghanistan...the b-52 Nukes were bad enough...but something in my gut tells me that the whole fiasco over who got the new Tanker contract is at the heart of this.
I would suspect that your right . I mean really giving the contract to a company that is owned by a European concern tha tcould pull the plug at anytime and even if the yput it in the contract that they couldn't it doesn't mean squat ,the French have hardly been our best ally the past 60 years and the current Government won't be there forever.
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Contrary to Boeing propaganda, their competitor WASN'T Airbus. Northrop/Grumman (my current client) won the contract because they could modify Airbus planes to the required configuration and deliver the first copy in 1/3 the time it would have taken the Lazy-B to kick out the first copy of their proposal.
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Contrary to Boeing propaganda, their competitor WASN'T Airbus. Northrop/Grumman (my current client) won the contract because they could modify Airbus planes to the required configuration and deliver the first copy in 1/3 the time it would have taken the Lazy-B to kick out the first copy of their proposal.
From what I have read, the tanker was awarded fair and square to the company that would make the best product at the best cost and saved the taxpayers big bucks.
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This landed on Drudge a couple hours ago...
Gates ousts Air Force leaders in historic shake-up (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080605/D91466O80.html)
Gates said his decision was based mainly on the damning conclusions of an internal report on the mistaken shipment to Taiwan of four Air Force electrical fuses for ballistic missile warheads. And he linked the underlying causes of that slip-up to another startling incident: the flight last August of a B-52 bomber that was mistakenly armed with six nuclear-tipped cruise missiles.
Gates also announced that "a substantial number" of Air Force general officers and colonels were identified in the Donald report as potentially subject to disciplinary measures that range from removal from command to letters of reprimand. He said he would direct the yet-to-be-named successors to Wynne and Moseley to evaluate those identified culprits and decide what disciplinary actions are warranted - "or whether they can be part of the solution" to the problems found by Donald.
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As a member of the Air Force, I really hope this just shakes things up at the top levels.
The biggest problem with the Air Force is it's leadership, and that needs to get fixed. This seems like a good step in that direction. Bravo Gates, bravo.
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The AF has been real resistant to requests for their Predator and Global Hawk units to deploy to Afghanistan...the b-52 Nukes were bad enough...but something in my gut tells me that the whole fiasco over who got the new Tanker contract is at the heart of this.
i thought this had to do with those nukes being flown to Israel with no one being aware they were on the plane? I havent followed this story very closely, but in the report i heard yesterday, that was all they connected it to.
then they said "where Rumsfeld was known for his bark, Gates is all bite."
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The AF has been real resistant to requests for their Predator and Global Hawk units to deploy to Afghanistan...the b-52 Nukes were bad enough...but something in my gut tells me that the whole fiasco over who got the new Tanker contract is at the heart of this.
i thought this had to do with those nukes being flown to Israel with no one being aware they were on the plane? I havent followed this story very closely, but in the report i heard yesterday, that was all they connected it to.
then they said "where Rumsfeld was known for his bark, Gates is all bite."
today's news stories on the firings say that the unauthorized nuke flights were a major factor in the dismissals.
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The AF has been real resistant to requests for their Predator and Global Hawk units to deploy to Afghanistan...the b-52 Nukes were bad enough...but something in my gut tells me that the whole fiasco over who got the new Tanker contract is at the heart of this.
i thought this had to do with those nukes being flown to Israel with no one being aware they were on the plane? I havent followed this story very closely, but in the report i heard yesterday, that was all they connected it to.
then they said "where Rumsfeld was known for his bark, Gates is all bite."
today's news stories on the firings say that the unauthorized nuke flights were a major factor in the dismissals.
earlier this year, Coast to Coast was allll over this story. about how incredible it was that our Air Force was flying nukes to Israel to use on Iran..
now ya gotta wonder.
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The AF has been real resistant to requests for their Predator and Global Hawk units to deploy to Afghanistan...the b-52 Nukes were bad enough...but something in my gut tells me that the whole fiasco over who got the new Tanker contract is at the heart of this.
i thought this had to do with those nukes being flown to Israel with no one being aware they were on the plane? I havent followed this story very closely, but in the report i heard yesterday, that was all they connected it to.
then they said "where Rumsfeld was known for his bark, Gates is all bite."
today's news stories on the firings say that the unauthorized nuke flights were a major factor in the dismissals.
earlier this year, Coast to Coast was allll over this story. about how incredible it was that our Air Force was flying nukes to Israel to use on Iran..
now ya gotta wonder.
Well being a product of public schools that I am................I never knew that Barksdale AFB was located in Israel. I always thought it was in western Louisiana.
What I heard this morning was that the flying of the nukes unknown to Barksdasle and the shipping of the bomb fuses to Tawain was the major items.
The SECDEF then said he was disappointed also in the lack of support from the USAF in Iraq and Afghanistan.
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The problem for the air force is that it has no "real" leaders, just a pack of "political officers".
And they didn't resign, they were F*I*R*E*D*.
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The problem for the air force is that it has no "real" leaders, just a pack of "political officers".
And they didn't resign, they were F*I*R*E*D*.
and they were fired for an egregious reason.
i have no idea what the truth of this matter is; i'm sure there is a ton of top secret stuff the public just cant know about. but this would seem to be a major screw up and somebody had to pay. its not easy kicking out a high ranking officer.
Crazy Horse, I hadnt heard about the fuses being sent to Taiwan - or what the problem with that could be. Like I said, I hadnt followed it really closely - but firing officers is no easy feat.
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The problem for the air force is that it has no "real" leaders, just a pack of "political officers".
And they didn't resign, they were F*I*R*E*D*.
Once you get to the General Officer rank...and even at Colonel...that is the nature of the beast.
And if you'd read the article...they weren't fired they resigned.
Had they not resigned they'd have been F*I*R*E*D.
Small but significant factual error.
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The problem for the air force is that it has no "real" leaders, just a pack of "political officers".
And they didn't resign, they were F*I*R*E*D*.
Once you get to the General Officer rank...and even at Colonel...that is the nature of the beast.
And if you'd read the article...they weren't fired they resigned.
Had they not resigned they'd have been F*I*R*E*D.
Small but significant factual error.
Umm... They were fired.
Both the top uniformed officer of the Air Force and its civilian leader have been asked to submit their resignations, FOX News confirms.
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Umm... They were fired.
Didn't realize that was the proper spelling of fired.
Who knew. :thatsright:
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Umm... They were fired.
Didn't realize that was the proper spelling of fired.
Who knew. :thatsright:
Sarge, I think the Air Force top people are trying to save face; these officers had to go but if the top brass make a huge deal out of it, the public is going to want to probe it further.
asking for a resignation is the same thing as being fired in my mind..
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Well you know, with today's PC environment, people's hearts would go all a-flutter if SefDef walked up to 'em and just said "You are the weakest link. Goodbye." with no preamble. Can't have that. It might hurt their widdle self-esteems. Maybe even hurt their widdle feelings. They'd leave the Pentagon, go running home to their mommies and cry in her lap, then mommy would have to sue the Pentagon and SecDef for hurting her widdle Gen'ral's feelings.
See? Bad all the way around.
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Well you know, with today's PC environment, people's hearts would go all a-flutter if SefDef walked up to 'em and just said "You are the weakest link. Goodbye." with no preamble. Can't have that. It might hurt their widdle self-esteems. Maybe even hurt their widdle feelings. They'd leave the Pentagon, go running home to their mommies and cry in her lap, then mommy would have to sue the Pentagon and SecDef for hurting her widdle Gen'ral's feelings.
See? Bad all the way around.
yeah, there is no upside in this situation.
it looks bad for all of them, but they cant go spooking the public or Iran, or any friendly country to Iran.
but at least it looks like we took care of the people responsible.
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Ok let me put this to you in the form of a question.
Your boss tell you that you can either "resign or be fired".
Which do you do?
Which one do you tell your potential future employer when you apply for another job?
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If I, in working for someone else, ever came to the point where that ultimatum was issued, it would be because of a serious disagreement between the employer and myself over what constitutes the ethical discharge of my duties to him/her. I'd have him fire my ass, because I'd have the documentation in hand of what led up to the firing as I walked out the door. I'd have no problem telling my next potential employer that I had been fired, why the boss fired me, and then showing him my documentation in support of my position.
But then, I wasn't the HNIC when nuclear weapons and fuses for nuclear weapons made unauthorized trips TDY when under my responsibility, either.
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Ok let me put this to you in the form of a question.
Your boss tell you that you can either "resign or be fired".
Which do you do?
Which one do you tell your potential future employer when you apply for another job?
well, that's what i'm saying.. the Air Force is allowing everyone to save face by asking for resignations. the officers can go forward and not have their lives ruined, and the Air Force can move forward without a big public inquiry. even though one should probably be forthcoming, i doubt it is.
it allows the situation to cool down and the officers to not go out and speak about it, since the Air Force didnt bring them up on charges of any sort.
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well, that's what i'm saying.. the Air Force is allowing everyone to save face by asking for resignations. the officers can go forward and not have their lives ruined, and the Air Force can move forward without a big public inquiry. even though one should probably be forthcoming, i doubt it is.
it allows the situation to cool down and the officers to not go out and speak about it, since the Air Force didnt bring them up on charges of any sort.
Agreed. But there are some that are saying they were fired...officially the resigned.
To say they were fired...with the information available...is factually in-accurate.
That's all I was trying to say in the first place.
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In "essence", they where fired, but as far as job applications, they resigned. Now when both of them move on to become CEO's of some major company, they won't have that nasty black mark of being removed from their previous job by Congress.
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well, that's what i'm saying.. the Air Force is allowing everyone to save face by asking for resignations. the officers can go forward and not have their lives ruined, and the Air Force can move forward without a big public inquiry. even though one should probably be forthcoming, i doubt it is.
it allows the situation to cool down and the officers to not go out and speak about it, since the Air Force didnt bring them up on charges of any sort.
Agreed. But there are some that are saying they were fired...officially the resigned.
To say they were fired...with the information available...is factually in-accurate.
That's all I was trying to say in the first place.
ok, i understand your position. i guess i never heard they were asked to resign.. but it still means they didnt just decide to resign on their own. they were put in that position by the higher ups.
but i get what you're saying..
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In "essence", they where fired, but as far as job applications, they resigned. Now when both of them move on to become CEO's of some major company, they won't have that nasty black mark of being removed from their previous job by Congress.
why would Congress have to remove anything from their records? If they are civilians soon enough... why would Congress be involved at all? Not being snarky... just dont know what the correlation is.
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In "essence", they where fired, but as far as job applications, they resigned. Now when both of them move on to become CEO's of some major company, they won't have that nasty black mark of being removed from their previous job by Congress.
why would Congress have to remove anything from their records? If they are civilians soon enough... why would Congress be involved at all? Not being snarky... just dont know what the correlation is.
No, they could only have been forcibly removed from their positions by Congress. So if they where to have been officially fired, then Congress would have been the one dropping the axe. You don't want it on your resume that it took an act of congress to remove you from your last job.
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In "essence", they where fired, but as far as job applications, they resigned. Now when both of them move on to become CEO's of some major company, they won't have that nasty black mark of being removed from their previous job by Congress.
why would Congress have to remove anything from their records? If they are civilians soon enough... why would Congress be involved at all? Not being snarky... just dont know what the correlation is.
No, they could only have been forcibly removed from their positions by Congress. So if they where to have been officially fired, then Congress would have been the one dropping the axe. You don't want it on your resume that it took an act of congress to remove you from your last job.
ahhh, i didnt realize that was the actual term for it.. and again, i learn so much on message boards. :-)