The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Archives => Politics => Election 2008 => Topic started by: franksolich on June 03, 2008, 07:57:15 AM
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CHICAGO - Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton heaved toward the finish line in their exhausting Democratic presidential odyssey with Obama poised to claim victory and Clinton facing the prospects of having to abandon a quest that once seemed a sure shot.
And although Tuesday's primary-season ending contests in South Dakota and Montana won't decide the Democratic nomination, the closing of the polls could open the floodgates to dozens of superdelegates — members of Congress and other party leaders — long anxious to throw their support to Obama.
That could decide the nomination in a matter of days.
"Once the last votes are cast, then it's in everybody's interest to resolve this quickly so we can pivot. We're less than three months away from our convention. So we've got a lot of work to do in terms of bringing the party together," the Illinois senator said in an interview with The Associated Press on Monday as he campaigned in Michigan, a general-election battleground.
Obama said there were a lot of superdelegates who have been private supporters of his but wanted to respect the process by not endorsing until the final primaries were done.
"We're still working the phones and we're still talking to people ... so we'll certainly have to wait until a little later tonight to see what the final tally is, but we certainly feel good waking up this morning," Robert Gibbs, Obama's communication director, told CNN Tuesday.
Not to be outdone, Republican John McCain will essentially kick off his campaign for the November election Tuesday night with a prime time speech in the New Orleans suburb of Kenner, La.
And while both Democratic candidates forged ahead on Monday in full-bore campaigning, neither Obama nor Clinton planned to be in either primary state on election night.
In a defiant shot across the GOP bow, Obama, who returned to hometown Chicago late Monday, planned to hold his wrap-up rally in St. Paul, Minn., at the arena that will be the site of the Republican National Convention in September.
Clinton returned to New York, the state she represents in the Senate, planning an end-of-primary evening rally in Manhattan after a grueling campaign finale as she pushed through South Dakota on Monday.
The former first lady has given no hint of quitting the race, and she has said repeatedly she may continue her candidacy even beyond the end of the primaries.
"I'm just very grateful we kept this campaign going until South Dakota would have the last word," she said at a restaurant in Rapid City in one of her final campaign stops. Polls suggested Obama would win both South Dakota and Montana.
She still sounded buoyant. Her biggest booster and most tireless campaigner, husband Bill Clinton, didn't. "This may be the last day I'm ever involved in a campaign of this kind," the former president said somberly as he stumped for her in South Dakota.
Ahead of Tuesday's concluding primaries, Obama sought to set the stage for reconciliation, praising Clinton's endurance and determination and offering to meet with her — on her terms — "once the dust settles" from their race.
"The sooner we can bring the party together, the sooner we can start focusing on McCain in November," Obama told reporters in Michigan. He said he spoke with Clinton on Sunday when he called to congratulate her on winning the Puerto Rico primary, most likely her last hurrah.
That fueled speculation for a "dream ticket" in which Clinton would become Obama's running mate — but neither camp was suggesting that was much of a possibility.
In the AP interview, Obama was asked when he would start looking for a running mate.
"The day after I have gotten that last delegate needed to officially claim the nomination, I'll start thinking about vice presidential nominees. I think it's likely to come this week," he said. "It's a very important decision, and it's one where I'm going to have to take some time."
Robert Gibbs, a top Obama aide, said late Monday the seemingly endless Democratic contest could be resolved "in the next 24 to 48 hours."
"You're going to have a lot of superdelegates come out," he said.
Clinton left South Dakota for New York late Monday, the final leg of a whirlwind four days that took her from New York to Puerto Rico, to South Dakota and back. For a campaign pushing against long odds, it was a show of determination.
The former first lady, suffering from a recurrent cough, had to cede the microphone to her daughter twice during the day as she struggled to recover her voice. Chelsea promptly took the opportunity — to discuss health care.
Meanwhile, Obama's aides prodded uncommitted lawmakers and other superdelegates to climb aboard quickly — as Clinton struggled to hold back the fast-rising tide.
Democratic officials said that if Obama failed to gain the needed 2,118 delegates by Tuesday night, one possibility under discussion was for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and Speaker Nancy Pelosi to issue a statement on Wednesday urging superdelegates to state their preferences as soon as possible.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080603/ap_on_el_pr/primary_rdp
The latest delegate count:
Hillary Clinton 1917, with 2118 needed to win
Barry "Goldwater" Obama 2076, with 2118 needed to win
John Edwards 14, with 2014 needed to win
Hmmmm.
One wonders where John Edwards picked up 4 delegates; last week, I think, he had 10.
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The polls in South Dakota close at 7:00 p.m. central time, 6:00 p.m. mountain time.
The polls in Montana close at 9:00 p.m. central time, 8:00 p.m. mountain time.
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Polls suggested Obama would win both South Dakota and Montana.
Yesterday was the first time I heard Obama was "poised to win" South Dakota and Montana. Prior to then I heard only about Senator Clinton's lead.
Damn it gets confusing.
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Polls suggested Obama would win both South Dakota and Montana.
Yesterday was the first time I heard Obama was "poised to win" South Dakota and Montana. Prior to then I heard only about Senator Clinton's lead.
Damn it gets confusing.
You think it's confusing for you, try living in SD. We've heard it every which way, up and down. At this point, it's really hard to tell who's actually gonna come out on top here.
Voter turnout will be quite high, it looks like. I just voted and even in my tiny rural reservation town, there was more of a crowd than usual. Should be interesting.
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he's probably got enough committed superdelegates that he has not announced yet that
he can claim the nomination tonight after they call SD and MT.
I would think that he would do it while he had the national media attention; while it will be
late in the east by the time they call those two states, all the morning news shows will
probably dedicate their broadcast to his "presumptive nomination". in fact, it would cause
a full blown case of media rapture; they have barely kept themselves from oozing all over
over the place as it is.
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Polls suggested Obama would win both South Dakota and Montana.
Yesterday was the first time I heard Obama was "poised to win" South Dakota and Montana. Prior to then I heard only about Senator Clinton's lead.
Damn it gets confusing.
You think it's confusing for you, try living in SD. We've heard it every which way, up and down. At this point, it's really hard to tell who's actually gonna come out on top here.
Voter turnout will be quite high, it looks like. I just voted and even in my tiny rural reservation town, there was more of a crowd than usual. Should be interesting.
Lisa, and you were complaining that your primary wouldn't be important a few months ago. :)
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For the record, while South Dakota is holding primaries for both parties today, the Republicans in Montana "caucused" in February.
Mitt Romney 38%, got all 25 Republican delegates
Ron Paul 25%
John McCain 22%
Michael Huckabee 15%
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For the record, while South Dakota is holding primaries for both parties today, the Republicans in Montana "caucused" in February.
Mitt Romney 38%, got all 25 Republican delegates
Ron Paul 25%
John McCain 22%
Michael Huckabee 15%
want to put our theory to the test again tonight, Frank?
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For the record, while South Dakota is holding primaries for both parties today, the Republicans in Montana "caucused" in February.
Mitt Romney 38%, got all 25 Republican delegates
Ron Paul 25%
John McCain 22%
Michael Huckabee 15%
want to put our theory to the test again tonight, Frank?
Yes, of course. I have a feeling there's going to be some surprises tonight, but I have no idea what.
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For the record, while South Dakota is holding primaries for both parties today, the Republicans in Montana "caucused" in February.
Mitt Romney 38%, got all 25 Republican delegates
Ron Paul 25%
John McCain 22%
Michael Huckabee 15%
want to put our theory to the test again tonight, Frank?
Yes, of course. I have a feeling there's going to be some surprises tonight, but I have no idea what.
Maybe a superdelegate will jump out of the bushes and pledge for Clinton.
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just watching America's Election HQ on foxnews; it looks like SD may be a big win for hillary tonight.
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just watching America's Election HQ on foxnews; it looks like SD may be a big win for hillary tonight.
The last poll I saw was ARG and she was up 26 pts over Obama.
Well, according to RCP (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/sd/south_dakota_democratic_primary-934.html) there are only two polls listed
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap_campaignplus/20080603/ap_ca/exit_poll_glance
Preliminary results from exit polls and telephone surveys conducted for The Associated Press and television networks in presidential primaries Tuesday in Montana and South Dakota:
DEMS ENERGIZED OR DIVIDED?
Did the long Democratic primary season leave the party energized or divided? South Dakotans said it had energized the party by about a 5-4 margin, while voters in Montana were about evenly split.
RANCOR SUBSIDING?
The surveys indicated Hillary Rodham Clinton's backers were a little less hostile toward Barack Obama than in most other recent primaries.
In six out of the last seven primaries, at least 60 percent of Clinton voters said they would be dissatisfied if Obama won the nomination — including 72 percent in Mississippi, 73 percent in West Virginia and 77 percent in Kentucky. But barely half of Clinton's backers in Montana and South Dakota said they would be dissatisfied with Obama as the nominee. Tuesday's results were comparable to the exit poll results in the Super Tuesday primaries on Feb. 5.
In both states about a third of Clinton voters asserted they would vote for Republican John McCain or stay home in November rather than vote for Obama. In five of the last six states to vote before Tuesday, more than four in 10 Clinton voters had said they would abandon the ticket in November.
... MAYBE NOT
On the other hand, about six in 10 Obama voters in both states don't want him to choose Clinton as his vice presidential running mate. Seven in 10 Clinton supporters in both say they'd like her to be the selection.
RATING HONESTY
About seven in 10 in both states called Obama honest and trustworthy. Nearly as many said that about Clinton in South Dakota but half in Montana called her honest and trustworthy.
ECONOMIC WORRIES
More than a third in both states said the recession or economic slowdown has affected their families a great deal and close to half said it has affected them somewhat — comparable to exit poll results from earlier primaries.
Given a list of three issues, voters in both states were most likely to say the economy was the most important issue facing the country. A little more than half said that in South Dakota while slightly fewer said so in Montana.
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Polls now closed in South Dakota.
Polls close in Montana two hours from now.
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For the record, every single Democrat candidate for the presidency is on the ballot in South Dakota, even if they dropped out.
It'll be interesting, the residual vote.
Joseph Biden
Christopher Dodd
John Edwards
Michael Gravel
Dennis Kucinich
William Richardson
in addition:
Hillary Clinton
Barry "Goldwater" Obama
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I am cringing at john mccain's rhetorical skills at the moment.
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if what I see in new orleans right now is an example of the excitement that we can expect for mccain in the general election, we're dead as a hammer.
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I am cringing at john mccain's rhetorical skills at the moment.
I did try and listen for like 5 minutes then I gave up and turned on Family Guy.
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I am cringing at john mccain's rhetorical skills at the moment.
I did try and listen for like 5 minutes then I gave up and turned on Family Guy.
it's a well written speech, "that's not change we can believe in", and pointing out valid issues and policy positions where obama would replace individual liberty with the acts of government . . . but it's falling flat.
ronald reagan would have them in the rafters right now.
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I listened to most of his speech last night. It wasn't so hot.
I have a feeling he's giving the same speech he gave here.
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I just flipped from PMSNBC, where they preempted his speech with the now old news that BHO has clinched the nomination, and the crowd sounds MUCH more enthusiastic on foxnews. and HE sounds much better on foxnews . . . gosh, could PMSNBC have monkeyed with the sound on purpose? :-)
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I just flipped from PMSNBC, where they preempted his speech with the now old news that BHO has clinched the nomination, and the crowd sounds MUCH more enthusiastic on foxnews. and HE sounds much better on foxnews . . . gosh, could PMSNBC have monkeyed with the sound on purpose? :-)
It's all Olbermann's fault!!!!! :-)
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mccain just had a good point: obama has never bucked his own party to do what he thought was right. we all know that is totally untrue of mccain :thatsright:
you would think that going against your own party could be required of "uniting" at some point.
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I just flipped from PMSNBC, where they preempted his speech with the now old news that BHO has clinched the nomination, and the crowd sounds MUCH more enthusiastic on foxnews. and HE sounds much better on foxnews . . . gosh, could PMSNBC have monkeyed with the sound on purpose? :-)
It's all Olbermann's fault!!!!! :-)
ya got that tin foil handy, Ralphie? I think I have been watching too much PMSNBC lately. I was about to call for a congressional investigation of the network sound guy. :rotf:
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fox has called SD for hillary.
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south dakota:
Candidate Votes Vote % Delegates Projected Winner
Clinton 11,021 57% 5
Obama 8,338 43% 5
link (http://abcnews.go.com/politics/elections/state?state=SD&ref=rrw)
montana
no results
link (http://abcnews.go.com/politics/elections/state?state=MT&ref=rrw)
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hillary's speech is starting . . . . they gotta stage full of clintons in NYC right now.
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hillary's speech is starting . . . . they gotta stage full of clintons in NYC right now.
I'll listen to her screech for a few minutes.
TNO's a big Hillary supporter. :-)
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heh. hillary : all your popular vote are belong to me. :-)
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heh. hillary : all your popular vote are belong to me. :-)
What's she saying? I can't get sound on my feed.
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heh. hillary : all your popular vote are belong to me. :-)
What's she saying? I can't get sound on my feed.
pretty much boilerplate stuff right now. she just said that she didn't want the 18 million people that voted for her to be invisible. now more boilerplate.
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she ain't conceding squat tonight. she has already mentioned "count every vote" twice. :whatever:
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she ain't conceding squat tonight. she has already mentioned "count every vote" twice. :whatever:
YES!!!!!!
Keep Operation Chaos alive!!!
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"I am making no decisions tonight".
and she is still asking for donations at her website. what a kick in the obamacrotch
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"I am making no decisions tonight".
and she is still asking for donations at her website. what a kick in the obamacrotch
Thank you!! :)
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For the record, every single Democrat candidate for the presidency is on the ballot in South Dakota, even if they dropped out.
It'll be interesting, the residual vote.
Joseph Biden
Christopher Dodd
John Edwards
Michael Gravel
Dennis Kucinich
William Richardson
in addition:
Hillary Clinton
Barry "Goldwater" Obama
Frank, I don't know where you heard that, but it wasn't true, at least not when I voted. The only two on the ballot were Clinton and Obama, period.
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hillary's speech is starting . . . . they gotta stage full of clintons in NYC right now.
I'll listen to her screech for a few minutes.
TNO's a big Hillary supporter. :-)
You're braver than I am if you listened to her for more than two minutes. One and a half minutes was about all I could stand before wanting to throw the tv out the window. :-)
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hillary's speech is starting . . . . they gotta stage full of clintons in NYC right now.
I'll listen to her screech for a few minutes.
TNO's a big Hillary supporter. :-)
You're braver than I am if you listened to her for more than two minutes. One and a half minutes was about all I could stand before wanting to throw the tv out the window. :-)
her speech was riveting compared to john mccain's, I'm afraid. thank God the Dodgers are starting; I don't have to watch Obama's mesmerizing hypnosis inducing speakubus.
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"I am making no decisions tonight".
and she is still asking for donations at her website. what a kick in the obamacrotch
She has to ask for donations, she's got a ton of debt to pay off.
hillary's speech is starting . . . . they gotta stage full of clintons in NYC right now.
I'll listen to her screech for a few minutes.
TNO's a big Hillary supporter. :-)
You're braver than I am if you listened to her for more than two minutes. One and a half minutes was about all I could stand before wanting to throw the tv out the window. :-)
I switched back to Family Guy once she started in on the 18 million voters line.
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Nice lie she told at the end about the poor woman with seizures, 3 jobs and no health insurance.
yeah, all that was missing was boils and locusts. :whatever:
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Nice to see that the 20-30 percent defection rate from the 'Rats is still in place, even now that the Barackstar! has the nomination all but won. You can't win elections with a quarter of your base running out on you, I don't care WHO you are.
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ABC has called MT for obama, which is odd, because their elections page has no results for the montana primary.
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Obama speech starting.
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just flipped back over from the Dodgers game. has obama shouted "I love you back" at some unknown and unheard person in the crowd yet?
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Obama speech starting.
I thought I felt a wave of nausea hitting me for some reason. Thanks for pinning down the cause for me.
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he just pulled Granny Typical White Person out from under the bus to thank her.
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he is going to claim the nomination with this speech. poor hillary should have taken her one shot at being gracious.
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yep. he just did it. he claims the nomination.
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yep. he just did it. he claims the nomination.
He has the delegates. He is the nominee, no matter how hard Hillary wishes that wasn't true.
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He's giving props to Hillary for her win in SD. And he's only saying very nice things about her.
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yep. he just did it. he claims the nomination.
He has the delegates. He is the nominee, no matter how hard Hillary wishes that wasn't true.
Why, is that a whiff of -- dare I say it? -- Eau de Independent in the air??
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yep. he just did it. he claims the nomination.
Yeah, and now she wants to be his running mate, and that will probably happen, and I'll be drinking Vodka straight up for at least the next four years.
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yep. he just did it. he claims the nomination.
He has the delegates. He is the nominee, no matter how hard Hillary wishes that wasn't true.
Why, is that a whiff of -- dare I say it? -- Eau de Independent in the air??
I don't think she'd go down that road. She's having a hard enough time raising money with her big D backers, as an Independent it would get harder. Plus, I doubt that Bill wants her spending all their savings on a failed run for the presidency.
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yep. he just did it. he claims the nomination.
He has the delegates. He is the nominee, no matter how hard Hillary wishes that wasn't true.
I guess he does. no one has ever won with superdelegates before, so there really isn't a precedent. I certainly would have, if it was me, just to shut her the hell up. :-)
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the difference between this speech and mccain's speech is the difference between "lightning" and "lightning bug". :thatsright:
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yep. he just did it. he claims the nomination.
He has the delegates. He is the nominee, no matter how hard Hillary wishes that wasn't true.
I guess he does. no one has ever won with superdelegates before, so there really isn't a precedent. I certainly would have, if it was me, just to shut her the hell up. :-)
He gives a dig at her by stating that he is the nominee, then he compliments her. LOL Excellent work Obama.
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yep. he just did it. he claims the nomination.
Yeah, and now she wants to be his running mate, and that will probably happen, and I'll be drinking Vodka straight up for at least the next four years.
I will lay serious odds that won't happen.
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more mccain = bush III again. :whatever:
I love it when he says that he salutes john mccain's service, because that is the bash mccain tsunami alarm. thank God this guy is weak on his knowledge of the issues, and can't debate. mccain ought to start demanding one debate a week starting tomorrow.
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more mccain = bush III again. :whatever:
I love it when he says that he salutes john mccain's service, because that is the bash mccain tsunami alarm. thank God this guy is weak on his knowledge of the issues, and can't debate. mccain ought to start demanding one debate a week starting tomorrow.
I think I read the other day there will be 3 debates, but I could be imaging that.
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yep. he just did it. he claims the nomination.
Yeah, and now she wants to be his running mate, and that will probably happen, and I'll be drinking Vodka straight up for at least the next four years.
I will lay serious odds that won't happen.
general elections are much more scripted than primaries. you exercise total control to access to the candidate; he could literally get all the way to november giving 10,000 speakubus speeches, and maybe one or two debates. if he does that, I really think we could be finished.
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more mccain = bush III again. :whatever:
I love it when he says that he salutes john mccain's service, because that is the bash mccain tsunami alarm. thank God this guy is weak on his knowledge of the issues, and can't debate. mccain ought to start demanding one debate a week starting tomorrow.
I think I read the other day there will be 3 debates, but I could be imaging that.
how? we didn't officially have nominees until 10 minutes ago. :-)
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the economy is growing, baroque. :whatever:
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more mccain = bush III again. :whatever:
I love it when he says that he salutes john mccain's service, because that is the bash mccain tsunami alarm. thank God this guy is weak on his knowledge of the issues, and can't debate. mccain ought to start demanding one debate a week starting tomorrow.
I think I read the other day there will be 3 debates, but I could be imaging that.
how? we didn't officially have nominees until 10 minutes ago. :-)
I said I could have been mistaken. :tongue:
I don't expect more than 3 debates though. I think that idea of Obama & McCain doing town halls together would be neat.
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he gave rock star like rallies in states that hillary kicked his ass in during the primaries, so maybe we (I :-)) shouldn't put too much stock in the rapture that is occurring in MN right now.
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this is the most divisive speech I have ever seen delivered by a unifier, uniter, and healer. :whatever:
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he gave rock star like rallies in states that hillary kicked his ass in during the primaries, so maybe we (I :-)) shouldn't put too much stock in the rapture that is occurring in MN right now.
The rally I went to was pretty damn impressive. So is this one on the teevee.
BTW, the rumor is that Hillary is speaking Friday at the TX Dem Convention. I think this weekend is gonna be fun. :-)
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he gave rock star like rallies in states that hillary kicked his ass in during the primaries, so maybe we (I :-)) shouldn't put too much stock in the rapture that is occurring in MN right now.
California, Texas, Florida, heck, the entire southwest. And maybe New York. hussein is going to win without those states?
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he gave rock star like rallies in states that hillary kicked his ass in during the primaries, so maybe we (I :-)) shouldn't put too much stock in the rapture that is occurring in MN right now.
California, Texas, Florida, heck, the entire southwest. And maybe New York. hussein is going to win without those states?
new york? are you feeling okay, FD?
by the way, your H5/BS meter is out of balance. fix it. :-)
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he gave rock star like rallies in states that hillary kicked his ass in during the primaries, so maybe we (I :-)) shouldn't put too much stock in the rapture that is occurring in MN right now.
California, Texas, Florida, heck, the entire southwest. And maybe New York. hussein is going to win without those states?
California? New York? He'll definitely win those. Florida, I think McCain will win it, esp if he put Crist as his VP.
Texas is more purple with Obama running right now. He won't win it, but Texas is turning blue.
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he gave rock star like rallies in states that hillary kicked his ass in during the primaries, so maybe we (I :-)) shouldn't put too much stock in the rapture that is occurring in MN right now.
California, Texas, Florida, heck, the entire southwest. And maybe New York. hussein is going to win without those states?
California? New York? He'll definitely win those. Florida, I think McCain will win it, esp if he put Crist as his VP.
Texas is more purple with Obama running right now. He won't win it, but Texas is turning blue.
texas is NOT turning blue. :whatever: florida is all but out of BHO's reach. someone convinced me today that CA competitive.
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this guy needs a new speech. I have heard most of this one about 100 times. but was he actually fixing the ocean in this speech? but he could read out of a coloring book and sound better than mccain.
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he gave rock star like rallies in states that hillary kicked his ass in during the primaries, so maybe we (I :-)) shouldn't put too much stock in the rapture that is occurring in MN right now.
California, Texas, Florida, heck, the entire southwest. And maybe New York. hussein is going to win without those states?
California? New York? He'll definitely win those. Florida, I think McCain will win it, esp if he put Crist as his VP.
Texas is more purple with Obama running right now. He won't win it, but Texas is turning blue.
texas is NOT turning blue. :whatever: florida is all but out of BHO's reach. someone convinced me today that CA competitive.
It is WE. Not this time around, but I wouldn't be surprised if in 4 years it went blue. The urban areas are outweighing the rural voters.
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he gave rock star like rallies in states that hillary kicked his ass in during the primaries, so maybe we (I :-)) shouldn't put too much stock in the rapture that is occurring in MN right now.
California, Texas, Florida, heck, the entire southwest. And maybe New York. hussein is going to win without those states?
California? New York? He'll definitely win those. Florida, I think McCain will win it, esp if he put Crist as his VP.
Texas is more purple with Obama running right now. He won't win it, but Texas is turning blue.
texas is NOT turning blue. :whatever: florida is all but out of BHO's reach. someone convinced me today that CA competitive.
It is WE. Not this time around, but I wouldn't be surprised if in 4 years it went blue. The urban areas are outweighing the rural voters.
The Texas power brokers are the suburbs of DFW and Houston. They are dark red and won't be changing anytime soon. The actual big cities are chump change.
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Bush garnered nearly 1,700,000 more votes than Kerry in the 2004 election out of around 7 million total cast. He beat him by an approximate ratio of 5:3. The state is solidly red despite the Mexican border counties and Travis.
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he gave rock star like rallies in states that hillary kicked his ass in during the primaries, so maybe we (I :-)) shouldn't put too much stock in the rapture that is occurring in MN right now.
California, Texas, Florida, heck, the entire southwest. And maybe New York. hussein is going to win without those states?
California? New York? He'll definitely win those. Florida, I think McCain will win it, esp if he put Crist as his VP.
Texas is more purple with Obama running right now. He won't win it, but Texas is turning blue.
texas is NOT turning blue. :whatever: florida is all but out of BHO's reach. someone convinced me today that CA competitive.
It is WE. Not this time around, but I wouldn't be surprised if in 4 years it went blue. The urban areas are outweighing the rural voters.
posh. bob dole even beat bill clinton in 96. bush polled 60% in 2000 and 2004 . . . hell, a dem hasn't won TX since 1976; carter beat ford with 51% of the vote.
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he gave rock star like rallies in states that hillary kicked his ass in during the primaries, so maybe we (I :-)) shouldn't put too much stock in the rapture that is occurring in MN right now.
California, Texas, Florida, heck, the entire southwest. And maybe New York. hussein is going to win without those states?
California? New York? He'll definitely win those. Florida, I think McCain will win it, esp if he put Crist as his VP.
Texas is more purple with Obama running right now. He won't win it, but Texas is turning blue.
texas is NOT turning blue. :whatever: florida is all but out of BHO's reach. someone convinced me today that CA competitive.
It is WE. Not this time around, but I wouldn't be surprised if in 4 years it went blue. The urban areas are outweighing the rural voters.
posh. bob dole even beat bill clinton in 96. bush polled 60% in 2000 and 2004 . . . hell, a dem hasn't won TX since 1976; carter beat ford with 51% of the vote.
I'm not saying Obama will win Texas. It will be closer though than it was Bush vs Kerry. There's more hispanics, urban areas are growing. It's not as red as it was, it's more of a pink now.
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he gave rock star like rallies in states that hillary kicked his ass in during the primaries, so maybe we (I :-)) shouldn't put too much stock in the rapture that is occurring in MN right now.
California, Texas, Florida, heck, the entire southwest. And maybe New York. hussein is going to win without those states?
California? New York? He'll definitely win those. Florida, I think McCain will win it, esp if he put Crist as his VP.
Texas is more purple with Obama running right now. He won't win it, but Texas is turning blue.
texas is NOT turning blue. :whatever: florida is all but out of BHO's reach. someone convinced me today that CA competitive.
It is WE. Not this time around, but I wouldn't be surprised if in 4 years it went blue. The urban areas are outweighing the rural voters.
posh. bob dole even beat bill clinton in 96. bush polled 60% in 2000 and 2004 . . . hell, a dem hasn't won TX since 1976; carter beat ford with 51% of the vote.
I'm not saying Obama will win Texas. It will be closer though than it was Bush vs Kerry. There's more hispanics, urban areas are growing. It's not as red as it was, it's more of a pink now.
do your fellow texans know that you are calling their state "pink" on the worldwide innerwebs? :-)
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You're forgetting one thing, Mia--Hispanics and blacks do NOT get along. Hillary garnered more of the Hispanic vote by far than did Barackstar! did.
Polls, schmolls. Hillary did herself in, and now Obama will do himself in, if Michelle Obama doesn't do it first.
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do your fellow texans know that you are calling their state "pink" on the worldwide innerwebs? :-)
LOL
You're forgetting one thing, Mia--Hispanics and blacks do NOT get along. Hillary garnered more of the Hispanic vote by far than did Barackstar! did.
Polls, schmolls. Hillary did herself in, and now Obama will do himself in, if Michelle Obama doesn't do it first.
That's why having someone like Richardson on the ticket is helpful.
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You're forgetting one thing, Mia--Hispanics and blacks do NOT get along. Hillary garnered more of the Hispanic vote by far than did Barackstar! did.
Polls, schmolls. Hillary did herself in, and now Obama will do himself in, if Michelle Obama doesn't do it first.
we knocked this exact subject around in this forum this afternoon. I forget where; it's in one of today's threads.
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do your fellow texans know that you are calling their state "pink" on the worldwide innerwebs? :-)
LOL
You're forgetting one thing, Mia--Hispanics and blacks do NOT get along. Hillary garnered more of the Hispanic vote by far than did Barackstar! did.
Polls, schmolls. Hillary did herself in, and now Obama will do himself in, if Michelle Obama doesn't do it first.
That's why having someone like Richardson on the ticket is helpful.
intriguing choice. he is a flop at the polls, but who needs star power with The BarackStar! on the ticket? but could also provide the appearance of foreign policy experience, or any kind of experience at all, for that matter.
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intriguing choice. he is a flop at the polls, but who needs star power with The BarackStar! on the ticket? but could also provide the appearance of foreign policy experience, or any kind of experience at all, for that matter.
Yes, that's exactly what Richardson would bring to the ticket.
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intriguing choice. he is a flop at the polls, but who needs star power with The BarackStar! on the ticket? but could also provide the appearance of foreign policy experience, or any kind of experience at all, for that matter.
Yes, that's exactly what Richardson would bring to the ticket.
he has an impressive resume, and would probably deliver NM. I think he is as empty a suit as you can find in american politics today (and that really is saying something), but you make a lot of sense.
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intriguing choice. he is a flop at the polls, but who needs star power with The BarackStar! on the ticket? but could also provide the appearance of foreign policy experience, or any kind of experience at all, for that matter.
Yes, that's exactly what Richardson would bring to the ticket.
he has an impressive resume, and would probably deliver NM. I think he is as empty a suit as you can find in american politics today (and that really is saying something), but you make a lot of sense.
Neither McCain nor Obama can really chose another senator for the ticket. They both have to have someone either a governor or other "executive" experience.
I don't pay much attention to New Mexico, so I don't know if Richardson is popular or not, but I don't believe I've heard anything negative about him.
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intriguing choice. he is a flop at the polls, but who needs star power with The BarackStar! on the ticket? but could also provide the appearance of foreign policy experience, or any kind of experience at all, for that matter.
Yes, that's exactly what Richardson would bring to the ticket.
he has an impressive resume, and would probably deliver NM. I think he is as empty a suit as you can find in american politics today (and that really is saying something), but you make a lot of sense.
Neither McCain nor Obama can really chose another senator for the ticket. They both have to have someone either a governor or other "executive" experience.
I don't pay much attention to New Mexico, so I don't know if Richardson is popular or not, but I don't believe I've heard anything negative about him.
NM is considered a battleground state, and any governor should be able to deliver his home state. unlike a certain metrosexual senator from hair county, NC, back in 2004. actually, the more I think about it, the more richardson makes a hell of a lot of sense.
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NM is considered a battleground state, and any governor should be able to deliver his home state. unlike a certain metrosexual senator from hair county, NC, back in 2004. actually, the more I think about it, the more richardson makes a hell of a lot of sense.
I think Richardson would be a very smart move as VP. I'm also leaning towards McCain picking Crist. I think that would solidify Florida for him.
Ahh, who knows really? It's gonna be a fun 5 months till November though. :-)
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NM is considered a battleground state, and any governor should be able to deliver his home state. unlike a certain metrosexual senator from hair county, NC, back in 2004. actually, the more I think about it, the more richardson makes a hell of a lot of sense.
I think Richardson would be a very smart move as VP. I'm also leaning towards McCain picking Crist. I think that would solidify Florida for him.
Ahh, who knows really? It's gonna be a fun 5 months till November though. :-)
I honestly hadn't thought through what a great running mate richardson would be for obama until you mentioned it. HOWEVER, we've talked about crist; there is no way mccain picks him. the base would go insane. I think florida is already safely republican in this election cycle.
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NM is considered a battleground state, and any governor should be able to deliver his home state. unlike a certain metrosexual senator from hair county, NC, back in 2004. actually, the more I think about it, the more richardson makes a hell of a lot of sense.
I think Richardson would be a very smart move as VP. I'm also leaning towards McCain picking Crist. I think that would solidify Florida for him.
Ahh, who knows really? It's gonna be a fun 5 months till November though. :-)
I honestly hadn't thought through what a great running mate richardson would be for obama until you mentioned it. HOWEVER, we've talked about crist; there is no way mccain picks him. the base would go insane. I think florida is already safely republican in this election cycle.
Hum, I hadn't thought about the base reaction to Crist. I'll have to ponder this a little more then. :)
BTW, I like the After Hours on MSNBC with the jazz band. Plus, I like Dan Abrams.
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NM is considered a battleground state, and any governor should be able to deliver his home state. unlike a certain metrosexual senator from hair county, NC, back in 2004. actually, the more I think about it, the more richardson makes a hell of a lot of sense.
I think Richardson would be a very smart move as VP. I'm also leaning towards McCain picking Crist. I think that would solidify Florida for him.
Ahh, who knows really? It's gonna be a fun 5 months till November though. :-)
I honestly hadn't thought through what a great running mate richardson would be for obama until you mentioned it. HOWEVER, we've talked about crist; there is no way mccain picks him. the base would go insane. I think florida is already safely republican in this election cycle.
Hum, I hadn't thought about the base reaction to Crist. I'll have to ponder this a little more then. :)
BTW, I like the After Hours on MSNBC with the jazz band. Plus, I like Dan Abrams.
I watch their morning show, with joe scarborough. he used to be a republican. now he's whatever mika brzezinski wants him to be. and I will watch chris matthews' show not that the general is cranking up, just to know what the opposition is up to.
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NM is considered a battleground state, and any governor should be able to deliver his home state. unlike a certain metrosexual senator from hair county, NC, back in 2004. actually, the more I think about it, the more richardson makes a hell of a lot of sense.
I think Richardson would be a very smart move as VP. I'm also leaning towards McCain picking Crist. I think that would solidify Florida for him.
Ahh, who knows really? It's gonna be a fun 5 months till November though. :-)
I honestly hadn't thought through what a great running mate richardson would be for obama until you mentioned it. HOWEVER, we've talked about crist; there is no way mccain picks him. the base would go insane. I think florida is already safely republican in this election cycle.
Hum, I hadn't thought about the base reaction to Crist. I'll have to ponder this a little more then. :)
BTW, I like the After Hours on MSNBC with the jazz band. Plus, I like Dan Abrams.
I watch their morning show, with joe scarborough. he used to be a republican. now he's whatever mika brzezinski wants him to be. and I will watch chris matthews' show not that the general is cranking up, just to know what the opposition is up to.
I don't really like Matthew's. He's too...blubbery.
I watch Morning Joe too. Well, after I get the local weather & traffic, I switch it over to Morning Joe.
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NM is considered a battleground state, and any governor should be able to deliver his home state. unlike a certain metrosexual senator from hair county, NC, back in 2004. actually, the more I think about it, the more richardson makes a hell of a lot of sense.
I think Richardson would be a very smart move as VP. I'm also leaning towards McCain picking Crist. I think that would solidify Florida for him.
Ahh, who knows really? It's gonna be a fun 5 months till November though. :-)
I honestly hadn't thought through what a great running mate richardson would be for obama until you mentioned it. HOWEVER, we've talked about crist; there is no way mccain picks him. the base would go insane. I think florida is already safely republican in this election cycle.
Hum, I hadn't thought about the base reaction to Crist. I'll have to ponder this a little more then. :)
BTW, I like the After Hours on MSNBC with the jazz band. Plus, I like Dan Abrams.
I watch their morning show, with joe scarborough. he used to be a republican. now he's whatever mika brzezinski wants him to be. and I will watch chris matthews' show not that the general is cranking up, just to know what the opposition is up to.
I don't really like Matthew's. He's too...blubbery.
I watch Morning Joe too. Well, after I get the local weather & traffic, I switch it over to Morning Joe.
that show is ALL politics. every minute. it's like crack for political junkies. fox and friends is just teh ghey. I gave up on it a long time ago.
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NM is considered a battleground state, and any governor should be able to deliver his home state. unlike a certain metrosexual senator from hair county, NC, back in 2004. actually, the more I think about it, the more richardson makes a hell of a lot of sense.
I think Richardson would be a very smart move as VP. I'm also leaning towards McCain picking Crist. I think that would solidify Florida for him.
Ahh, who knows really? It's gonna be a fun 5 months till November though. :-)
I honestly hadn't thought through what a great running mate richardson would be for obama until you mentioned it. HOWEVER, we've talked about crist; there is no way mccain picks him. the base would go insane. I think florida is already safely republican in this election cycle.
Hum, I hadn't thought about the base reaction to Crist. I'll have to ponder this a little more then. :)
BTW, I like the After Hours on MSNBC with the jazz band. Plus, I like Dan Abrams.
I watch their morning show, with joe scarborough. he used to be a republican. now he's whatever mika brzezinski wants him to be. and I will watch chris matthews' show not that the general is cranking up, just to know what the opposition is up to.
I don't really like Matthew's. He's too...blubbery.
I watch Morning Joe too. Well, after I get the local weather & traffic, I switch it over to Morning Joe.
that show is ALL politics. every minute. it's like crack for political junkies. fox and friends is just teh ghey. I gave up on it a long time ago.
As long as Gretchen keeps her skirts short, it will NOT be a ghey show by any means:
(http://bp2.blogger.com/_7N144xf14Ik/RpR0r7N9qpI/AAAAAAAABzE/SiMIUqOwIu0/s400/Gretchen111006a_0.jpg)
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For the record, every single Democrat candidate for the presidency is on the ballot in South Dakota, even if they dropped out.
It'll be interesting, the residual vote.
Joseph Biden
Christopher Dodd
John Edwards
Michael Gravel
Dennis Kucinich
William Richardson
in addition:
Hillary Clinton
Barry "Goldwater" Obama
Frank, I don't know where you heard that, but it wasn't true, at least not when I voted. The only two on the ballot were Clinton and Obama, period.
I was using America On-Line for my source when I posted that.
Then some time later, maybe half an hour later, there was discombulation as the site was amended; I was hoping it was for some results, but no, it was to change something else.
When it settled down, the South Dakota page showed just the candidates you mentioned, all the others having been deleted.
After that, I waited and waited for results, but nothing, and then the neighbor came over as he wanted to change the oil in a motor vehicle, and so I gave up trying to track the results, as nothing was coming in.
Apparently the vote reports were really late and really slow last night?
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NM is considered a battleground state, and any governor should be able to deliver his home state. unlike a certain metrosexual senator from hair county, NC, back in 2004. actually, the more I think about it, the more richardson makes a hell of a lot of sense.
I think Richardson would be a very smart move as VP. I'm also leaning towards McCain picking Crist. I think that would solidify Florida for him.
Ahh, who knows really? It's gonna be a fun 5 months till November though. :-)
dick morris echoed your exact thoughts on richardson on the o'reilly show tonight. and I mean point by point. it was eerie.
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NM is considered a battleground state, and any governor should be able to deliver his home state. unlike a certain metrosexual senator from hair county, NC, back in 2004. actually, the more I think about it, the more richardson makes a hell of a lot of sense.
I think Richardson would be a very smart move as VP. I'm also leaning towards McCain picking Crist. I think that would solidify Florida for him.
Ahh, who knows really? It's gonna be a fun 5 months till November though. :-)
dick morris echoed your exact thoughts on richardson on the o'reilly show tonight. and I mean point by point. it was eerie.
Oh, tee hee. LOL I should start emailing him my political thoughts so I'd at least get credit.
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NM is considered a battleground state, and any governor should be able to deliver his home state. unlike a certain metrosexual senator from hair county, NC, back in 2004. actually, the more I think about it, the more richardson makes a hell of a lot of sense.
I think Richardson would be a very smart move as VP. I'm also leaning towards McCain picking Crist. I think that would solidify Florida for him.
Ahh, who knows really? It's gonna be a fun 5 months till November though. :-)
dick morris echoed your exact thoughts on richardson on the o'reilly show tonight. and I mean point by point. it was eerie.
Oh, tee hee. LOL I should start emailing him my political thoughts so I'd at least get credit.
yeah, I thought you were getting the shaft as I was listening to him, too. :-)
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yeah, I thought you were getting the shaft as I was listening to him, too. :-)
Here's a current Gallup on race (Obama vs McCain). Obama's doing well with hispanics so far.
Race
It's no secret that Obama owes his nomination in large part to overwhelming support among blacks, and that high level of support will likely be evident in the general election. Roughly 9 in 10 blacks say they would vote for Obama if the election were held today, while McCain's support among blacks is in the low single digits. Blacks are typically a strong Democratic constituency, so the impact of the first black presidential candidate on a major-party ticket may be more evident in terms of motivating high black turnout than in overwhelming support for the Democrat.
Obama did not fare well against Hillary Clinton among Hispanics in the 2008 primaries, but the early indications are that he will do well among this increasingly Democratic group in the general election. The May data show Obama with a 62% to 29% advantage over McCain among Hispanics.
McCain currently maintains a strong advantage over Obama among non-Hispanic white voters, 53% to 38%.
(http://media.gallup.com/poll/graphs/080605Election3_bnytdfv.gif)
link (http://www.gallup.com/poll/107689/Early-Gallup-Road-Map-McCainObama-Matchup.aspx)
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yeah, I thought you were getting the shaft as I was listening to him, too. :-)
Here's a current Gallup on race (Obama vs McCain). Obama's doing well with hispanics so far.
Race
It's no secret that Obama owes his nomination in large part to overwhelming support among blacks, and that high level of support will likely be evident in the general election. Roughly 9 in 10 blacks say they would vote for Obama if the election were held today, while McCain's support among blacks is in the low single digits. Blacks are typically a strong Democratic constituency, so the impact of the first black presidential candidate on a major-party ticket may be more evident in terms of motivating high black turnout than in overwhelming support for the Democrat.
Obama did not fare well against Hillary Clinton among Hispanics in the 2008 primaries, but the early indications are that he will do well among this increasingly Democratic group in the general election. The May data show Obama with a 62% to 29% advantage over McCain among Hispanics.
McCain currently maintains a strong advantage over Obama among non-Hispanic white voters, 53% to 38%.
(http://media.gallup.com/poll/graphs/080605Election3_bnytdfv.gif)
link (http://www.gallup.com/poll/107689/Early-Gallup-Road-Map-McCainObama-Matchup.aspx)
I flatly do not believe 62-29. I just don't. GWB carried 45% of the hispanic vote in 2004, and while a lot of that may have come from his home state of texas, there is no way in hell that mccain, who's position on immigration is even softer that bush's, loses that much support. and many of these results fly in the face of this pew research poll (.pdf) (http://people-press.org/reports/pdf/425.pdf) in the demographic groups where you can make draw some reasonable parallels.
no, I am not playing the "my poll rocks, your poll sucks" game :-), but I do think that the only valaue that national polls have at this point is to identify trends, not precise levels of public support. and we just don't have enough data to identify trends yet. we've only had candidates for a couple of days.
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yeah, I thought you were getting the shaft as I was listening to him, too. :-)
Here's a current Gallup on race (Obama vs McCain). Obama's doing well with hispanics so far.
Race
It's no secret that Obama owes his nomination in large part to overwhelming support among blacks, and that high level of support will likely be evident in the general election. Roughly 9 in 10 blacks say they would vote for Obama if the election were held today, while McCain's support among blacks is in the low single digits. Blacks are typically a strong Democratic constituency, so the impact of the first black presidential candidate on a major-party ticket may be more evident in terms of motivating high black turnout than in overwhelming support for the Democrat.
Obama did not fare well against Hillary Clinton among Hispanics in the 2008 primaries, but the early indications are that he will do well among this increasingly Democratic group in the general election. The May data show Obama with a 62% to 29% advantage over McCain among Hispanics.
McCain currently maintains a strong advantage over Obama among non-Hispanic white voters, 53% to 38%.
(http://media.gallup.com/poll/graphs/080605Election3_bnytdfv.gif)
link (http://www.gallup.com/poll/107689/Early-Gallup-Road-Map-McCainObama-Matchup.aspx)
I flatly do not believe 62-29. I just don't. GWB carried 45% of the hispanic vote in 2004, and while a lot of that may have come from his home state of texas, there is no way in hell that mccain, who's position on immigration is even softer that bush's, loses that much support. and many of these results fly in the face of this pew research poll (.pdf) (http://people-press.org/reports/pdf/425.pdf) in the demographic groups where you can make draw some reasonable parallels.
no, I am not playing the "my poll rocks, your poll sucks" game :-), but I do think that the only valaue that national polls have at this point is to identify trends, not precise levels of public support. and we just don't have enough data to identify trends yet. we've only had candidates for a couple of days.
I agree completely. I just happened to see that right after reading this thread, so I thought that it was interesting.
Polls are meaningless right now. A year ago McCain was dead in the water and Hillary was getting ready for her coronation. :-)