The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: zeitgeist on December 14, 2012, 05:35:17 PM
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DUmmy asks "Are there no Asylums?"
Darn those diesel engines on fire trucks, are there no horse drawn pumpers? :hammer:
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/10021972293
» Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » What are your thoughts ab...
Thu Dec 13, 2012, 01:14 PM
Cleita (60,805 posts)
What are your thoughts about institutionalizing drug abusers and the mentally ill?
I know we used to do this once upon a time before Reagan economics shut down the system. Those people, who came afoul of the law, or whom social workers thought couldn’t care for themselves, were sent to various state psychiatric hospitals. They were fed, housed and given psychiatric care. Today the state hospitals are still there, but they mostly house the criminally insane, and those with the means to afford their care. The rest are just homeless who haven’t been able to get the scarce HUD housing available.
Early this morning, the fire department first responders came for my screwed up neighbor who lives up the hill, again. They always wake me up because the diesel engines are so noisy. She left in the ambulance. The woman, whom I will call Cecile, is messed up on meth among other drugs. They come for her once a month it seems, clean her up, and then send her home again so she can try to OD again in about a month’s time. The sheriffs come too because when she isn’t on drugs, she’s wandering around the countryside (we live in the country) getting lost on other people’s properties. The sheriffs have often arrested her for trespassing when she’s frightened neighbors who don’t know her.
{snip}
Are there no workhouses?
notadmblnd (16,775 posts)
29. There'll be nobody left.
Well not anyone who currently posts at the DUmp who isn't a mole that is.
:rotf:
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DUmmy please..
If there were still many active asylums, you would all be screaming about how the evil rethugs are institutionalizing free-thinkers and creative spirits for daring to challenge the status-quo.
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Excuse me but Reagan had to deal with a Democratic Congress so if your going to blame anyone it should the them for doing away with places to house the mentally ill,not the President. Congress holds the purse strings and makes the laws,not the President. Oh yeah I forgot that only applies to when the Right is in charge.
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Deinstitutionalization of the mentally ill really took off in the mid 1960s, as I recall. There was a lot of discussion of "moral treatment" in the 50s and 60s (mostly before) resulting in a move to a community service model. It was all considered very progressive.
I feel badly for those who are expected to function in regular society, when a structured environment would be so much less stressful and dangerous to them and others.
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DUmmy asks "Are there no Asylums?"
Darn those diesel engines on fire trucks, are there no horse drawn pumpers? :hammer:
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/10021972293
Are there no workhouses?
Well not anyone who currently posts at the DUmp who isn't a mole that is.
:rotf:
Sorry folks but we have to man up and admit it was Nixon that chose to close most institutions to the patients and opt for comunity out care. I saw what it did in California. All these confused folk just dumped on the streets and no comunity out care for 50 miles.
If they were very lucky and dumpted in a Comunity that had out care, they being confused either could not find the place even if they were standing right in front of it. With no one to remind them to take their medication if they had any idea of how to get it they went off meds, no money to buy it if they did remember anything about it.
All comes down to money, the States are being eaten up trying to feed our criminals and have no money to care for the mentally ill., the sick people that have done no wrong.
Darn good question here you asked. Leads to many social issues, Grandpa lives on #SS and is becoming forgetfull, he leaves the stove on or forgets to eat for a few days. Now what, his life may be in danger but you live 2,000 miles away. The waiting time for him to get into a nursing home is 2 years. Best thing he can do is to head out with a shot gun and fire it off scaring the neighbors. Going to jail will save his and neighbors lives but he will have to do this every 18 months to get back to jail or he will freeze to death on the streets.
We have some old timers up here that insist on living on the streets or woods. Come fall they have been known to when it gets cold to pitch rocks or bricks through windows of the banks and wait to be arrested. They get a cot and 3 hots for months as they keep their trial date being delayed until spring and warm weather. Free dental care and medical care in jail, ------Some say the people are crazy to do this but I keep thinking of another critter that inhabits this area---The FOX.
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There sure are asylums, we call one of them the DUmp.
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It was the American Communist Lawyers Union, sometimes called the ACLU, that sued to have the crazies turn out on to the streets......and allowed to vote democrat for the freebies..
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It was the American Communist Lawyers Union, sometimes called the ACLU, that sued to have the crazies turn out on to the streets......and allowed to vote democrat for the freebies..
Yup. Started in the fifties.* Continued under none other than the Original JFK (who served in the Pacific). He and Landslide Lyndon and a democrat controlled Congress got through The Community Mental Health Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Mental_Health_Act) and that got the ball rolling on deinstitutionalization.
* In the late fifties I got to see a state institution in person. I was very young and no allowed inside but it was still quite the experience to be on the grounds and hear the screams of tormented souls from within, to see the bars on the windows and the trustees working around the grounds. It made a lasting impression.
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Yup. Started in the fifties.* Continued under none other than the Original JFK (who served in the Pacific). He and Landslide Lyndon and a democrat controlled Congress got through The Community Mental Health Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Mental_Health_Act) and that got the ball rolling on deinstitutionalization.
* In the late fifties I got to see a state institution in person. I was very young and no allowed inside but it was still quite the experience to be on the grounds and hear the screams of tormented souls from within, to see the bars on the windows and the trustees working around the grounds. It made a lasting impression.
Zeit, both myself and my oldest son were born in the infirmary on CV Island out side the entrance to the Castle, the Federal prison for the worse of the worse Navy and Marines.
Summers as a teen we would pass the Castle either boating, fishing or even once I water skied past, my parents must have hated me, no life jacket. I allways waved back.
Memories of looking up at the stone walls perhaps 8 story's high, Bars on windows everywhere and in the summer the arms hanging out the windows that waved at us.
Years later I met a Marine that went to work in the Chaplin's office as a GS 4 perhaps. Ah the story's he told of live within the walls for both prisoners and the Marine guards, not to mention the Chaplin's themselves.
This was as he saw it not a prison but an asylum with no doctors of the non medical kind. Far as he saw it, all the prisoners needed inpatient care and not punishment as none would be there if they were of sound mind.
As he told me after a couple of years of being a guard the men of every type be it Chaplin's or any kind of staff began to get a bit unhinged themselves as the insanity kind of spreads to anyone that spends 8-10 hours a day 5-6 days a week around.
Became a cat and mouse game of the board prisoners who would think up ways to bedevil the guards. Some ways were extremely creative.
Fascinating the history of the Castle, Today it stands abandoned, Cannot be used for anything as the cleanup would become impossible. But there it still stands a testament to insanity and unspeakable horror.
Worked with a woman, Jewish, Russian that came here via Israel that her family some how were allowed to immigrate to. She told me that as a child she remembers, or was told about as a child, no Prisions in Russia, just Asylums as the criminals were considered mentally ill. Interesting out look from the times of the Cold War.
We can do as the Brits did to the Scots along time ago, take away any kind of weapon and reduce the people to only being able to own a 3-4 inch knife to cut meat or vegetables for a meal. History shows how well that worked.
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Yup. Started in the fifties.* Continued under none other than the Original JFK (who served in the Pacific). He and Landslide Lyndon and a democrat controlled Congress got through The Community Mental Health Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Mental_Health_Act) and that got the ball rolling on deinstitutionalization.
* In the late fifties I got to see a state institution in person. I was very young and no allowed inside but it was still quite the experience to be on the grounds and hear the screams of tormented souls from within, to see the bars on the windows and the trustees working around the grounds. It made a lasting impression.
Yeah, they should be locked up an treated worse than animals awaiting the slaughter. I have seen documentaries on these places and you would have to be a complete asshole devoid of a soul to think they are appropriate for any human being whose only crime was having schizophrenia, or similar significant mental illnesses.
Residential placements have come a long way since then. Thank God.
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Oh I know - here is a hypothetical question for you. Genetic testing shows conclusively that the baby has schizophrenia or _______ neurological/mental illness which deems them a risk to society.
Abort?
I sure don't see any compassion whatsoever for these individuals in the advocacy for services they require to live with their disability - be that intense therapies, and/or medication. We sure the heck see what can happen when they don't receive services. So what is the answer?
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Yeah, they should be locked up an treated worse than animals awaiting the slaughter. I have seen documentaries on these places and you would have to be a complete asshole devoid of a soul to think they are appropriate for any human being whose only crime was having schizophrenia, or similar significant mental illnesses.
Residential placements have come a long way since then. Thank God.
Last I heard was the treatment facilities for juvenile offenders or those that needed help desperately in VA. allowed corporal punishment for the children that did not conform.
Then the so called reform school in the south that has come into the news lately by an author who spent time there, Title" The White House" and the forensics being done today that has uncovered the graves of unknown children that died there. White boys buried in one spot, black boys in another.
Getting bad as in just one location alone there are 50 graves of unknown children.
I tried to post but found Former is ahead of me, they ask what is the answer to genetic testing. I see no problem here, some of our greatest thinkers and inventors scared the shit out of their family's. Some went on to become our great Hero's and others saved the lives of many.
What we consider as mental illness today may be found to be in the future to be the first steps to Genius.
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Sorry folks but we have to man up and admit it was Nixon that chose to close most institutions to the patients and opt for comunity out care. I saw what it did in California. All these confused folk just dumped on the streets and no comunity out care for 50 miles.
If they were very lucky and dumpted in a Comunity that had out care, they being confused either could not find the place even if they were standing right in front of it. With no one to remind them to take their medication if they had any idea of how to get it they went off meds, no money to buy it if they did remember anything about it.
All comes down to money, the States are being eaten up trying to feed our criminals and have no money to care for the mentally ill., the sick people that have done no wrong.
Darn good question here you asked. Leads to many social issues, Grandpa lives on #SS and is becoming forgetfull, he leaves the stove on or forgets to eat for a few days. Now what, his life may be in danger but you live 2,000 miles away. The waiting time for him to get into a nursing home is 2 years. Best thing he can do is to head out with a shot gun and fire it off scaring the neighbors. Going to jail will save his and neighbors lives but he will have to do this every 18 months to get back to jail or he will freeze to death on the streets.
We have some old timers up here that insist on living on the streets or woods. Come fall they have been known to when it gets cold to pitch rocks or bricks through windows of the banks and wait to be arrested. They get a cot and 3 hots for months as they keep their trial date being delayed until spring and warm weather. Free dental care and medical care in jail, ------Some say the people are crazy to do this but I keep thinking of another critter that inhabits this area---The FOX.
But you did eventually find a home, right?
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If I recall correctly,any mandatory institutionalizing of those with mental handicaps has been fought tooth and nail by the left.
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A tough issue. IIRC, some of those government-run facilities were real hell-holes.
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Yeah, they should be locked up an treated worse than animals awaiting the slaughter. I have seen documentaries on these places and you would have to be a complete asshole devoid of a soul to think they are appropriate for any human being whose only crime was having schizophrenia, or similar significant mental illnesses.
Residential placements have come a long way since then. Thank God.
Which is exactly why there was such a push to deinstitutionalize. Sadly it ended like the old expression heard often in my youth, marry in haste, repent in leisure or another way, the cure was worse than the disease (in many, not all cases).
Hypothetically, of course, I need to find a good broad brush to go paint a barn with. Then I am off to invent a lobotomy procedure for the baby [that] has schizophrenia or _______ neurological/mental illness which deems them a risk to society. :sarcasm:
I often wonder what part Rosemary Kennedy lobotomy had to play in the Community Mental Health Act. Just blaming Reagan, Nixon, Johnson, or Kennedy is obviously not an answer. Nor is throwing people into asylums which are hell holes. Mental illness is not something to politicize nor make a populist campaign.
I recall meeting one guy (1968) who had been held in an asylum in Louisiana for a period of time before being released. His crime? He had been arrested and convicted in Texas of having a joint. His folks got him declared insane and transfered to La. where they were eventually able to get him released. Imagine if they hadn't been able to get him released.
And Vesta, darling, it is Seavey Island (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seavey's_Island). I doubt you were born in the infirmary you were most likely born in the Naval Hospital as was my niece. BTW I will mention your concern for the mental well being of guards to my several friends who were former guards at the Castle. :rotf:
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There are none left?? WTH is that big building called Eastern State Hospital up in Williamsburg for? Vacation spot?
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DUmmy asks "Are there no Asylums?"
DUmmy, look around you. You're in one.
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Sorry folks but we have to man up and admit it was Nixon that chose to close most institutions to the patients and opt for comunity out care. I saw what it did in California. All these confused folk just dumped on the streets and no comunity out care for 50 miles.
Action.
Reaction (http://www.democraticunderground.com/)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-b0CMpfm450I/UGU6g5zAqNI/AAAAAAAAB7E/go9aKuBjCJQ/s1600/san+francisco+public+nudity.jpg)
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If I recall correctly,any mandatory institutionalizing of those with mental handicaps has been fought tooth and nail by the left.
Hell, they wont even let the conversation go in this direction. It's all about the GUNS and an excellent opportunity for our Marxist government to go after them.
We are seeing a pattern here with these 20 something shooters and it is SSRI medications. There is something seriously F'ed up with the way these kids are being treated and the left doesn't want anyone to even talk about it.
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Which is exactly why there was such a push to deinstitutionalize. Sadly it ended like the old expression heard often in my youth, marry in haste, repent in leisure or another way, the cure was worse than the disease (in many, not all cases).
Hypothetically, of course, I need to find a good broad brush to go paint a barn with. Then I am off to invent a lobotomy procedure for the baby [that] has schizophrenia or _______ neurological/mental illness which deems them a risk to society. :sarcasm:
I often wonder what part Rosemary Kennedy lobotomy had to play in the Community Mental Health Act. Just blaming Reagan, Nixon, Johnson, or Kennedy is obviously not an answer. Nor is throwing people into asylums which are hell holes. Mental illness is not something to politicize nor make a populist campaign.
I recall meeting one guy (1968) who had been held in an asylum in Louisiana for a period of time before being released. His crime? He had been arrested and convicted in Texas of having a joint. His folks got him declared insane and transfered to La. where they were eventually able to get him released. Imagine if they hadn't been able to get him released.
And Vesta, darling, it is Seavey Island (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seavey's_Island). I doubt you were born in the infirmary you were most likely born in the Naval Hospital as was my niece. BTW I will mention your concern for the mental well being of guards to my several friends who were former guards at the Castle. :rotf:
Really , you have friends that guarded that hell hole. If you are their age perhaps I know them, Portsmouth was a wild town in the 1700- to the 1960+. Hang out was Gullies, still going strong since the 1st world war. or there abouts.
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Really , you have friends that guarded that hell hole. If you are their age perhaps I know them, Portsmouth was a wild town in the 1700- to the 1960+. Hang out was Gullies, still going strong since the 1st world war. or there abouts.
Golly gee Sister Susie it is Gilley's (http://www.seacoastnh.com/Today/Editor_at_Large/Send_Us_Your_Gilley_Stories/)
Yes, I use to order a few dogs out of the window then hit Richardsons Market on State to grab a couple pounders on my way back out of town. Never hung around downtown after they rolled in the sidewalks. As mother use to say "nothing good happens once they roll up the sidewalks downtown." :fuelfire:
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There are none left?? WTH is that big building called Eastern State Hospital up in Williamsburg for? Vacation spot?
Rather like asking "Who was John Galt?"
The Superintendency of Dr. John Galt, 1841- 1862
In 1841 the Hospital, called Eastern Lunatic Asylum and housing 125 "inmates," came under the supervison of Dr. John Galt, an incontrovertibly brilliant physician who brought the full flower of Moral Management treatment to Williamsburg. As Dr. Galt put it, three successive revolutions in psychiatry occured in Williamsburg. The "First Revolution" was the Hospital's founding as a publicly supported facility exclusively for the care of the mentally ill. The "Second Revolution" was the introduction of Moral Management therapy. This taught, as Dr. Galt said, that the mentally ill "differ from us in degree, but not in kind" and are entitled to human dignity. Dr. Galt introduced therapeutic activities and talk therapy. He was probably alone among contemporary asylum superintendants to advocate that the psychiatric hospital undertake in-house research and claimed to treat African-American patients on an equal footing with whites. Dr. Galt used restraint very sparingly (one year restraining none) and sought a calming medication to replace restraint. He dispensed opium liberally to patients in a foreshadowing of our twentieth century neuroleptics.The "Third Revolution in Psychiatry" became clear in 1857, when Dr. Galt was the first to advocate deinstitutionalization and community-based mental health care. He wrote, "A large number of insane, instead of rusting out their lives in the confines of some vast asylum, should be placed... in the neighboring community... were any other class of persons than the insane collected together in such large numbers as is the case in some asylums, we are satisfied that the greatest disorder would be likely to ensue." Dr. Galt's was a lone voice, over a century ahead of its time--there were no echoes of agreement beyond his office, and the Hospital's Court of Directors three times prevented his accomplishing these plans. His disappointment and consequent depression probably contributed to his suicide five years later.
Thus, it was that at Eastern State Hospital all the components of the modern psychiatric hospital may have first been put into practice--human dignity for the mentally ill, therapeutic activities, talk therapy, calming medication, in-house research, deinstitutionalization, and community-based mental health care.
Symptoms of a Dysfunctional Age: The Nineteenth Century in America was characterized by a lack of civil rights for the majority of the people. There was slavery for African-Americans and oppression of women and children, as well as tremendous stigma against the mentally ill. The list of servants is actually a list of slaves owned by Eastern State Hospital around 1850. There were as many as 45 slaves working at the asylum, and they appear to have taken a large share in the work to be done. Dr. Galt trained them, as well as white "officers" (nursing aides, currently termed Human Services Care Workers), to provide talk therapy for the patients, although Dorothea Dix disapproved. Eastern State had been an integrated hospital since its beginning in 1773, and in 1846 Dr. Galt successfully submitted a bill to admit slaves as patients.
Dr. Galt claimed to treat patients equally "without regard to race." In fact, he published no records as to the racial breakdown of the patient population. The mentally ill were another group suffering oppression at this time. Chaining and other forms of long-term restraint were common at Eastern Lunatic Asylum until the late 1830s, when Moral Management thinking introduced the ideals of human dignity and least restraint. In some years, Dr. Galt used no restraints at all. However, patients that escape were sometimes cruelly treated by the surrounding community. The letter dated September 4, 1843 is a bill for the castration of an Eastern State patient who was captured near Lynchburg, Virginia. Dr. Galt's reaction (he was then 23) is not known, but he did not send payment.
http://www.esh.dmhmrsas.virginia.gov/history.html#johngalt
I learn something new every day.
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Rather like asking "Who was John Galt?"
I learn something new every day.
Pretty interesting history on that place. Colonial Williamsburg rebuilt the original building a few years back. http://www.history.org/almanack/places/hb/hbhos.cfm