The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Economics => Topic started by: thundley4 on November 23, 2012, 04:02:06 PM
-
Just watching Cavuto's show on Fox News with Brenda Butner sitting in for Neil. They were talking about raising the gas tax as part of the new round of negotiations.
Did a little search and nadined it.
GM CEO calls for $1 gas tax hike
NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- General Motors CEO Dan Akerson said his company and his industry would be helped, not hurt, if consumers paid higher gas taxes.
In an interview published in Tuesday's Detroit News, Akerson floated the idea of a $1 a gallon increase in the gas tax as a way to encourage buyers to purchase smaller, more fuel efficient cars. Greg Martin, spokesman for GM's Washington office, confirmed that the quotes reflect Akerson's and GM's view.
Akerson said he would support a jump in the gas tax if it came instead of tighter fuel economy regulations that GM (GM, Fortune 500) and other automakers will have to meet in coming years. By the year 2025, automakers could be forced to hit fuel economy averages of as much as 62 mpg.
Akerson said that a higher gas tax, including an immediate 50-cent-a-gallon increase to take advantage of recent declines in gas prices, would probably make some of his Republican friends "puke." But he said it would do more to help the environment than the pending fuel economy rules.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/06/07/news/companies/gm_gas_tax_hike/index.htm
I imagine that a GM CEO also thinks a higher tax would mean more sales of their failed VOLT.
-
How about a "fart tax" on union members and foodstamp users?
-
They don't call it Government Motors for nothing.
.
-
Another wonderful idea. If we can't afford an extra dollar for gallon how in the hell can we afford to go out and buy a new Chevy Volt?
-
Why would anyone in their right mind go out and buy a butt ugly electric Volt. At least the $50k Tesla car is half ass good looking.
Don't think a dollar a gal gas tax will ever pass. You never know though with bonehead Boehner. He was sitting next to Obamaturd grinning like a ***** cat. Thought the SOB was going to kiss Obama. :argh:
-
Just watching Cavuto's show on Fox News with Brenda Butner sitting in for Neil. They were talking about raising the gas tax as part of the new round of negotiations.
Did a little search and nadined it.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/06/07/news/companies/gm_gas_tax_hike/index.htm
I imagine that a GM CEO also thinks a higher tax would mean more sales of their failed VOLT.
the funny part is that in that article CNN even called him out
Higher pump prices can also slow the economy as a whole. Earlier this year Akerson told CNNMoney that if gas hit $4.50 a gallon, "you would probably see people stop visiting our showrooms."
So they guy wants to bankrupt his own company, destroy any chance of personal transportation for the lower and middle class, stall the economy just to "save the environment". I wonder where he learned that type of economics, oh wait Europe :thatsright:
-
the funny part is that in that article CNN even called him out
So they guy wants to bankrupt his own company, destroy any chance of personal transportation for the lower and middle class, stall the economy just to "save the environment". I wonder where he learned that type of economics, oh wait Europe :thatsright:
You can't go bankrupt when you have a union and Obama backing you..... :bird:GM
-
You can't go bankrupt when you have a union and Obama backing you..... :bird:GM
Yep when you have 0bama's stash to fall back on you can do any nutty thing you want and not suffer the consequences.
If GM were to fold that would destroy 0bama's image and he would never let that happen. He will happily prop them up as long as he is in office.
GM going down would be as bad as 0sama popping up and saying, "You missed".
-
Gas could be $7/gallon and I'm still not purchasing an electric car. That thing wouldn't hold enough charge to get me to and from work in a single day.
-
You can't go bankrupt when you have a union and Obama backing you..... :bird:GM
There wont even be enough democrats that will vote for another bailout
-
Another wonderful idea. If we can't afford an extra dollar for gallon how in the hell can we afford to go out and buy a new Chevy Volt?
Don't we have a Nobel Prize winning Potato Economist here, a regular Ccrugmon? Someone who understands how to parse the rubric "One potato, two potato, three potato, four, five potato, six potato, seven potato more, then out goes y-o-u." Maybe break it down to a more understandable format? I mean, the Pelosi alogrithm, the unemployment check multiplier, might it hold the key?
M/zeit is going to hit the lotto tonight for 325 Mil. And if I can find someone to help me get all the money from my chain letter out of the bank in Ghana I will be sitting pretty. :yahoo:
-
M/zeit is going to hit the lotto tonight for 325 Mil. And if I can find someone to help me get all the money from my chain letter out of the bank in Ghana I will be sitting pretty. :yahoo:
I am a lead pipe cinch to win the lotto. :lmao: You might have better luck with the chain letter though. :-)
-
I am a lead pipe cinch to win the lotto. :lmao: You might have better luck with the chain letter though. :-)
Don't be so sure, I found two pennies (one Canadian) heads up while walking the beagle which I gave m/zeit to use when she bought her ticket and the wishbone broke in her favor too. Just say'n :whistling:
I knew I should have changed the address on that chain letter. :hammer:
-
Gas could be $7/gallon and I'm still not purchasing an electric car. That thing wouldn't hold enough charge to get me to and from work in a single day.
Fixed it for my case. 42 miles door to parking lot.
And I'm just curious how much it costs to charge a Volt. If I did it 30 times in a month, how much would my electric bill increase, I wonder? Considering I'd have to do it in excess of 60-70 times a month with the mileage I drive, how much then?
-
Fixed it for my case. 42 miles door to parking lot.
And I'm just curious how much it costs to charge a Volt. If I did it 30 times in a month, how much would my electric bill increase, I wonder? Considering I'd have to do it in excess of 60-70 times a month with the mileage I drive, how much then?
How many times can you recharge one of those batteries, any idea? Not only the cost of electricity to charge it but the cost of battery disposal and replacement. I could probably use a golf cart if they would let me to go to the grocery. Oh wait here's the ticket:
(http://imageshack.us/a/img474/3586/flabiker1le.jpg)
-
How many times can you recharge one of those batteries, any idea? Not only the cost of electricity to charge it but the cost of battery disposal and replacement. I could probably use a golf cart if they would let me to go to the grocery. Oh wait here's the ticket:
(http://imageshack.us/a/img474/3586/flabiker1le.jpg)
I did a little nadining, and found out the 2013 Volt battery has a 16.5 KWh capacity. CNET claims it can be charged from a 240-volt source in 4.5 hours, or a 120-volt source in about 10.5 hours (oh, joy.)
They also state the range has been increased from 35 to 38 miles. Oh, joy.
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-57449166-48/higher-gas-mileage-electric-range-for-2013-chevy-volt/
As far as how long the battery will actually last, the only consistent answer I could find was: it depends. The biggest issue so far seems to be location, and the hotter the average temperature, the bigger the hit on battery life, often cutting it in half.
The Chevy Volt battery currently has an 8-year/100K mile warranty, so let's say for sake of argument it'll last 120K on average. No actual replacement cost has been announced, but estimates in the $8-10K range aren't exactly out of line.
So, to summarize:
Assuming average electrical cost of 12 cents per KwH (closer to 16-17 in NH) for 40 KwH of usage (I'm using my driving, not the "average") we'll come up with about $5/day in electricity. Not bad, until you consider driving 80-90 miles in a vehicle getting 40 mpg would consume roughly $7/day in gas, and that $8-10K now means you're going to have to go at least (AT LEAST) 15 years between battery changeouts to break even--a virtual impossibility.
So yeah--the Volt, Leaf, et al, are cars made for people who love smelling their own farts.
ETA: Also consider that battery life is also going to go way down if one "deep cycles" the battery rather than partially discharging before recharging, so there's that too. Enjoy.
-
How many times can you recharge one of those batteries, any idea? Not only the cost of electricity to charge it but the cost of battery disposal and replacement. I could probably use a golf cart if they would let me to go to the grocery. Oh wait here's the ticket:
(http://imageshack.us/a/img474/3586/flabiker1le.jpg)
One of our neighbor's has a lifted pink golf cart. They have in-law's that live three blocks away (feel sorry for them...) and they drive that to their house instead of taking their car. Pretty cool. But yeah, I'd totally drive a pimped out golf cart to work before a Volt.
-
So, to summarize:
Assuming average electrical cost of 12 cents per KwH (closer to 16-17 in NH) for 40 KwH of usage (I'm using my driving, not the "average") we'll come up with about $5/day in electricity. Not bad, until you consider driving 80-90 miles in a vehicle getting 40 mpg would consume roughly $7/day in gas, and that $8-10K now means you're going to have to go at least (AT LEAST) 15 years between battery changeouts to break even--a virtual impossibility.
So yeah--the Volt, Leaf, et al, are cars made for people who love smelling their own farts.
ETA: Also consider that battery life is also going to go way down if one "deep cycles" the battery rather than partially discharging before recharging, so there's that too. Enjoy.
You cant break even because the sticker price on the volt is $20K more than the 40 mpg car.
-
You cant break even because the sticker price on the volt is $20K more than the 40 mpg car.
Our ten year old , paid off Saturn still gets 30+mpg on the highway. It would take decades for me to start breaking even. The car has less than 51K miles on it.
-
The Volt is simply a flawed experiment that, thanks to Barry and his sycophants, has become a taxpayer-supported massive fail.
And yet there are some people who actually believe the hype.
http://gm-volt.com/join-us/
-
Something happened Thanksgiving Day through Black Friday into the weekend not many people noticed because they were too busy shopping. Gas went up 6 cents.
Thursday at the Exxon station near my house the sign read $3.09. Last night it read $3.15. :o
I seriously don't think Americans can take a $1.00 hike in gas prices. It would be cruel.
-
Something happened Thanksgiving Day through Black Friday into the weekend not many people noticed because they were too busy shopping. Gas went up 6 cents.
Thursday at the Exxon station near my house the sign read $3.09. Last night it read $3.15. :o
I seriously don't think Americans can take a $1.00 hike in gas prices. It would be cruel.
Where do you live? It's 3.99 up the street from me.
-
Our gas has been sitting at $3.56 for regular about a week now.
-
I think regular gas is about $3.17 this week. I'm not sure because I've been filling up about twice a month and haven't looked at prices.
-
I filled up for $2.99 on thanksgiving
-
But what about the federal tax itself? In illinois, it's 19 cents, motor-fuel tax on gasoline/gasohol; 21.5 cents on diesel.
-
And, dear readers, let's not forget the INDIRECT costs such a rapid rise in gas prices would have on the Oconomy.
Remember all those foodstuffs that we can't afford any longer? Well, production, processing, distribution, and sales points would all be devastated by higher costs due to the 25-35 percent increase in fuel costs, meaning that those razor-thin margins are now gone. So said companies are either going to 1--raise prices, 2--go out of business, 3--both.
Joy of joys, Obumbles be praised!
-
I did a little nadining, and found out the 2013 Volt battery has a 16.5 KWh capacity. CNET claims it can be charged from a 240-volt source in 4.5 hours, or a 120-volt source in about 10.5 hours (oh, joy.)
After purchasing this hunk of shit, you find out that in order to get this quick charge of 4.5 hours, you have to buy an attachment for around $700. Otherwise you are stuck with the 10 hour charge. :loser:
I quit buying car magazines after Automobile touted the BMW mini as a fag car and last year and this year one of the top magazines touted the Volt and Tesla electric cars respectively as car of the year.
-
After purchasing this hunk of shit, you find out that in order to get this quick charge of 4.5 hours, you have to buy an attachment for around $700. Otherwise you are stuck with the 10 hour charge. :loser:
I quit buying car magazines after Automobile touted the BMW mini as a fag car and last year and this year one of the top magazines touted the Volt and Tesla electric cars respectively as car of the year.
And how many people actually have 240V in their garage? If they've got an electric stove, yeah sure, there's 240V in the house.
But an outlet in your garage?
Not likely. (I happen to have one but I inherited the line. I had to have an electrician actually install the outlet -- no way am I messing with 240V.)
-
And how many people actually have 240V in their garage? If they've got an electric stove, yeah sure, there's 240V in the house.
But an outlet in your garage?
Not likely. (I happen to have one but I inherited the line. I had to have an electrician actually install the outlet -- no way am I messing with 240V.)
About the only people I can think of that would are people who have their washer/dryers in the garage. Other than that, not many unless you've converted the garage into a workshop.
-
About the only people I can think of that would are people who have their washer/dryers in the garage. Other than that, not many unless you've converted the garage into a workshop.
I had our son put in 240V for my generator to power the entire house.
-
Where do you live? It's 3.99 up the street from me.
Northwest portion of Louisiana.
-
About the only people I can think of that would are people who have their washer/dryers in the garage. Other than that, not many unless you've converted the garage into a workshop.
'Zackly. Which makes the whole "quick charge @ 240V" thing just another reason for GM to pound sand up the Volt buyer's ass. :loser:
-
I had our son put in 240V for my generator to power the entire house.
To be fair, most breaker boxes and service from the utilities are 240 volt, and a transfer switch for the generator will, as you know, take either 1 hot for 120 volts or 2 hots for 240 volts, meaning you could in theory have a 10-circuit transfer switch (as I do) but if you have several 240 volt loads like the water heater, well pump, dryer, etc., you could in theory be down to only five actual loads, not ten--although in an emergency I can't fathom having anything other than the well pump as a 240 load.
So yeah, I guess you could say I've got a 240 in the garage, but it too is simply a supply point for the generator/transfer switches.
-
To be fair, most breaker boxes and service from the utilities are 240 volt, and a transfer switch for the generator will, as you know, take either 1 hot for 120 volts or 2 hots for 240 volts, meaning you could in theory have a 10-circuit transfer switch (as I do) but if you have several 240 volt loads like the water heater, well pump, dryer, etc., you could in theory be down to only five actual loads, not ten--although in an emergency I can't fathom having anything other than the well pump as a 240 load.
So yeah, I guess you could say I've got a 240 in the garage, but it too is simply a supply point for the generator/transfer switches.
Our breaker box is from 1964, it is full, so he ran the needed line for me. Scenairo: Power out; pull the main; start the generator; plug the end of the generator cord into the wall box; plug the other end of the generator cord into the 240V outlet on the generator.
Wham, shazaam! Pull a few of the breakers, and power on for the whole house, especially the water pump.
Reverse procedure when the power is restored.
-
Gas could be $7/gallon and I'm still not purchasing an electric car. That thing wouldn't hold enough charge to get me to and from work in a single day.
You didn't opt for the charging station upgrade on your new home when it was being built?
That is so un-green of you. Trees are crying.
-
Trying to trade in a used hybrid or elelctric car is like trying to trade in a computer. The technology is changing and the cars do not hold value due to the expensive batteries that are always changing and a very expensive gamble.
The Volt simply sounds like a pain in the ass even if you have a high speed charging station. If you come home from work and another family member needs to use the car to run a few errands, when will you have a chance to get the battery charged back up in order to use it for work the next day? Some people work different shifts every day. Some nights I work until 11 PM and return to work at 7 AM....I just don't see a Volt in my future. :rotf:
As fuel consumption drops, the push to raise fuel tax will be strong. So much for only taxing the rich! :-) My local ballot has tried twice to raise our fuel tax by .03 a gallon, it gets shot down pretty quick. Of course, at a state or federal level they will just bury it in with 5,000 other pages and it will become law.
-
Our breaker box is from 1964, it is full, so he ran the needed line for me. Scenairo: Power out; pull the main; start the generator; plug the end of the generator cord into the wall box; plug the other end of the generator cord into the 240V outlet on the generator.
Wham, shazaam! Pull a few of the breakers, and power on for the whole house, especially the water pump.
Reverse procedure when the power is restored.
See, that's why I like a transfer switch...no extra breakers needed, no need to pop the main. Just plug the generator into the transfer switch, switch loads from LINE to GEN, and close the switches. The hardest part about putting it in was mounting it.
Easy-peasy.
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxMTkz/$T2eC16dHJGIE9nnWrc1rBQQoQq7SP!~~60_35.JPG)
-
It's easy when you're an electrician, Sparky.
I ain't. And like Clint Eastwood was known to say, "A man has to understand his limitations."
I leave that kind of stuff to somebody who knows wtf they're doing.
-
It's easy when you're an electrician, Sparky.
I ain't. And like Clint Eastwood was known to say, "A man has to understand his limitations."
I leave that kind of stuff to somebody who knows wtf they're doing.
Believe it or not, it's actually quite easy. The instructions are very clear. You're not actually "rewiring" anything per se so much as re-routing it through the transfer switch. For each load, you take out the existing load lead after opening the breaker. For each circuit on the transfer switch there's two wires--one which you put into the breaker (going to the transfer switch) and one coming back into the breaker panel, which gets wire nutted up with the load lead. Close the breaker in, and make sure that the transfer switch panel stays ON with the LINE position selected.
http://www.connecticut-electric.com/TechDocs/Emergen/EmerGen%20Owners%20Manual%2001%20Series.pdf
(Very similar to the one I own.)
So when the power goes out, turn all the used circuits on the transfer panel OFF, switch over to the GEN position, and once your generator is plugged into the transfer panel and running, simply turn ON the switches (no possibility of paralleling to or backfeeding to the utility supply, so no need to ever open or lift the main breaker leads.
-
Believe it or not, it's actually quite easy. The instructions are very clear. You're not actually "rewiring" anything per se so much as re-routing it through the transfer switch. For each load, you take out the existing load lead after opening the breaker. For each circuit on the transfer switch there's two wires--one which you put into the breaker (going to the transfer switch) and one coming back into the breaker panel, which gets wire nutted up with the load lead. Close the breaker in, and make sure that the transfer switch panel stays ON with the LINE position selected.
http://www.connecticut-electric.com/TechDocs/Emergen/EmerGen%20Owners%20Manual%2001%20Series.pdf
(Very similar to the one I own.)
So when the power goes out, turn all the used circuits on the transfer panel OFF, switch over to the GEN position, and once your generator is plugged into the transfer panel and running, simply turn ON the switches (no possibility of paralleling to or backfeeding to the utility supply, so no need to ever open or lift the main breaker leads.
Shhh. Don't give away electrical secrets. How else can electricians justify charging high rates? :-)
-
Shhh. Don't give away electrical secrets. How else can electricians justify charging high rates? :-)
Same reason plumbers can. Sometimes shitty jobs in shitty conditions doing work that may or may not be safe. You'd be amazed what kind of shit people jury-rig.
-
Same reason plumbers can. Sometimes shitty jobs in shitty conditions doing work that may or may not be safe. You'd be amazed what kind of shit people jury-rig.
My company has a separate division for electrical contracting and by union rules they have to be brought into the shop to do most electrical work such as light fixtures and outlets.
Every time the company has wanted different styles of lights put in, the electricians have left the old ones hanging rather than taking them down.
-
Believe it or not, it's actually quite easy. The instructions are very clear. You're not actually "rewiring" anything per se so much as re-routing it through the transfer switch. For each load, you take out the existing load lead after opening the breaker. For each circuit on the transfer switch there's two wires--one which you put into the breaker (going to the transfer switch) and one coming back into the breaker panel, which gets wire nutted up with the load lead. Close the breaker in, and make sure that the transfer switch panel stays ON with the LINE position selected.
http://www.connecticut-electric.com/TechDocs/Emergen/EmerGen%20Owners%20Manual%2001%20Series.pdf
(Very similar to the one I own.)
So when the power goes out, turn all the used circuits on the transfer panel OFF, switch over to the GEN position, and once your generator is plugged into the transfer panel and running, simply turn ON the switches (no possibility of paralleling to or backfeeding to the utility supply, so no need to ever open or lift the main breaker leads.
I've got an automatic transfer switch on my 17kW generator, so that when the power goes out, the generator kicks on and all power routes through the transfer switch. No need for a cable between it and the generator. :tongue:
-
I've got an automatic transfer switch on my 17kW generator, so that when the power goes out, the generator kicks on and all power routes through the transfer switch. No need for a cable between it and the generator. :tongue:
That's great if you have an autostart generator. Not so great for a pull start, though.
-
That's great if you have an autostart generator. Not so great for a pull start, though.
They sell setups similar to what Eupher has at HD/Lowe's.
Pretty sweet setups, if you can afford them.
-
That's great if you have an autostart generator. Not so great for a pull start, though.
True dat.
-
True dat.
We want outta here and will not spend that kind of money nor justify such an expendature.
-
We want outta here and will not spend that kind of money nor justify such an expendature.
I can DEFINITELY relate to that. I was glad to have escaped the People's Republik of Illinois in 1999 -- not a moment too soon.
-
I can DEFINITELY relate to that. I was glad to have escaped the People's Republik of Illinois in 1999 -- not a moment too soon.
It's got even worse since then. Now it's just madiganstan, with no end to the corruption in sight.
And - get this - felon Mel Reynolds (child abuser, financial scheme artist) will run for JJJ's place in the House.
-
It's got even worse since then. Now it's just madiganstan, with no end to the corruption in sight.
And - get this - felon Mel Reynolds (child abuser, financial scheme artist) will run for JJJ's place in the House.
Isn't it a requirement to be a felon in order to run for political office in Illinoisistan? :confused:
-
It's got even worse since then. Now it's just madiganstan, with no end to the corruption in sight.
And - get this - felon Mel Reynolds (child abuser, financial scheme artist) will run for JJJ's place in the House.
Black leaders are worried that a white person might get elected to JJJ's seat. Their not racist for saying that, of course.
-
Of course.