The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Freeper on November 17, 2012, 10:43:09 AM
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It's the right wing's fault that businesses are closing because of 0bama's policies that will bankrupt them.
WCGreen (43,736 posts)
How ****ing anti-American are these right-wing douche bags that are willing to tank their companies..
Last edited Sat Nov 17, 2012, 12:11 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
just because the election didn't go their way.
We sucked it up and dealt with arguably the worst administration in the last 100 years and still did what we had to do. We didn't sulk or strike, for that matter, we did what AMERICANS are supposed to do; be a loyal opposition.
To publicly say they are going to undermine their companies just because the election didn't go their was is so wrong in so many ways.
First of all, all these mini-titans of industry are violating their fiduciary responsibilities to their investors by not doing what is best for the shareholders.
Second, they are almost, almost right at that line between coercion and personal opinion by publicly saying they are going to tank their companies because of the votes taken by people that work for them.
And Third, did it cross their little ****ing right wing brains that maybe, just maybe that because of Obama care their employees will be healthier and so not have to call off work, their kids will be happier and healthier and so their parents wont have to call off work because their kids are sick.
How did these ass holes get to the top of their companies when they let petty political vendettas rule their actions instead of common sense.
That, my friends, is the god damn truth.
Get over it, douche bags...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021836395
0bama and his gang of thugs are making it so they can't afford to be in business anymore and you idiots blame the business.
CaliforniaPeggy (100,297 posts)
1. Well said, and ******* right.
RagAss (13,164 posts)
2. If the market for the product is still there...someone else will fill the hole they left.
...and hopefully hire the employees these assclowns left to die.
Good luck with that one, who is going to want to take the risk of starting up anything when the government is going to tax the living hell out of them.
WCGreen (43,736 posts)
4. Yea, but shareholders can make a case that they are violating the fiduciary responsibilities by
acting against the best interests of the company.
Yeah because the shareholders love nothing more than losing money.
liberalmuse (15,074 posts)
6. They are hurting Americans.
They'll take their money and run, and leave people without a means to support themselves until they can hopefully find another job. I hope there's karma. I want to see all the greedy people who made their money off the backs of the poor and middle class (especially you, ****ing Romney), lose it all and truly understand what it's like to be at the mercy of shitty, greedy bosses and have your benefits whisked away or watch your co-workers laid off one by one until it comes down to you so the shareholders can have more money, and CEO's can buy a 10th vacation home.
If there is karma you freeloading son's of a bitch will be wondering what on earf hit you.
PD Turk (698 posts)
11. If I'm wrong somebody please tell me
but... if we had gotten the public option, wouldn't it have helped to alleviate what these assholes are bitching about?
Who do you think will pay for that public option? The money fairy? No it would be the same businesses that are now folding because of what 0bama is doing that would be expected to pay for this, along with the evil rich. In other words the same thing would be happening.
OpenedMindGuy (3 posts)
18. My Friend Works For a Koch Bros. Subsidiary..
She says they are now making noise like they are going to shut down her plant because Obama won.She has been working over 30+hours of O.T. every week for the last 8 months. She is over worked and tired. Now she doesn't care if they fold. She wants them to close. I don't blame her. She should get severance pay and then she wants to go back to school and get retrained as a chef.
CaliforniaPeggy (100,297 posts)
20. Welcome to DU, OpenedMindGuy!
I'm glad you found us.
And you picked an excellent thread to post in. WCGreen is a very smart man, and you can learn much from reading his posts.
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
We are doomed as a nation. They see that 0bama and his policies are destroying this country, yet they blame the people being destroyed for the mess.
Even when it does collapse they will blame the victims and still look to 0bama to save them. :banghead:
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OpenedMindGuy (3 posts)
18. My Friend Works For a Koch Bros. Subsidiary..
She says they are now making noise like they are going to shut down her plant because Obama won.She has been working over 30+hours of O.T. every week for the last 8 months. She is over worked and tired. Now she doesn't care if they fold. She wants them to close. I don't blame her. She should get severance pay and then she wants to go back to school and get retrained as a chef.
This mole is good. The "friend" is getting 30 hours of overtime pay (AKA getting rich off the backs of the business owners) in this economy, yet is willing to see the gravy train jump the tracks so the friend can go work at Denny's?
I love it! :lmao:
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When DUmmies oppose President Bush it is loyal opposition. BUT When we oppose obama we are racist, ****ing anti-American right-wing douche bags, assholes, that let petty political vendettas rule our actions instead of common sense.
WOW, fighting for our rights, freedom and the Constitution, instead of being labeled patriotic we are labeled with the above....You know it is down right scary the way those peoples minds work.
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We sucked it up and dealt with arguably the worst administration in the last 100 years and still did what we had to do re-elected obama to a 2nd term.
Fixed for accuracy
seriously DUmmies, If you are so worried about business closing and people being shut out of jobs, they you go ahead, take the risk and start up your own business. Good luck dealing with the shit-ton of rules and regulations your beloved government will bestow upon you for trying to be successful, but have at it.
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:panic:
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30+ hours of O.T. huh......has DUmbasses friend ever looked at her check stub and noticed how much "The Won" is taking from her?.....and how much more it's costing the company in SS, Workers Com., state and fed unemployment?.....nawh, it's just the cost of doing business to the DUmmies.
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Yeah, it took a lot of courage for the DUmpmonkeys to live through the Great Bush Prosperity, an era of happiness, growth, and personal wealth accumulation second only to the 20-year-long Reagan Boom.
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WCGreen is a very smart man
Oh......well, yeah. Playing mumbly peg with you drooling retards makes him some kind of sooper genuz.
PD Turk (698 posts)
11. If I'm wrong somebody please tell me
but... if we had gotten the public option, wouldn't it have helped to alleviate what these assholes are bitching about?
The stoopid meter just pegged so hard the needle bent.
And Third, did it cross their little ****ing right wing brains that maybe, just maybe that because of Obama care their employees will be healthier and so not have to call off work, their kids will be happier and healthier and so their parents wont have to call off work because their kids are sick.
Now, it's broken. Thanks, idiot.
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30+ hours of O.T. huh......has DUmbasses friend ever looked at her check stub and noticed how much "The Won" is taking from her?.....and how much more it's costing the company in SS, Workers Com., state and fed unemployment?.....nawh, it's just the cost of doing business to the DUmmies.
:rotf:
Nope. No clue that Mommy Government bones you sideways on overtime.
la-la-la-la-la-la-la..................
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RagAss (13,164 posts)
2. If the market for the product is still there...someone else will fill the hole they left.
...and hopefully hire the employees these assclowns left to die.
This is where the lack of experience that Obama and his fellow DUchebags really comes into play. Small business is niche business. When a small niche business in the USA dies there is a 90% chance that the demand for that USA business will go off shore. Our business was the only American manufacturer of a specialty industry. There were competitors in Thailand and Germany. That is where the end user demand went to.
Someone else WILL NOT fill the hole here in the USA. Only where the market is commoditized will big American business move into fill demand. Kiss those small business and usually high paying jobs ADIOS. I will bet that by the end of the second reign of incompetence that the median wage will be down another $5000.
Another point is that many small businesses have been hanging on, sometimes not getting paid trying to get through Obamanomics. The country told them it will not be getting better and these very hard working people are throwing in the towel. It just is not worth it. I hit that point in 2005 in kalifornia. The rest of the USA is meeting this in 2012.
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As usual, the dummies blame everyone and everything under the sun except the ones responsible.
Hey dummies? We told you and told you and told you what was gonna happen. You didn't listen and this is what you get. You own it dummies.
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I saw some guy, can't remember who. That was being interviewed about competitors taking over the factories and rehiring the laid off Hostess workers. He said they had to much capacity already and IF they were to get any of the brandnames all they'd do is crank up their idled equipment and call back some of their laid off workers. No one really has a need for the idled factories or anything but the names.
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This mole is good. The "friend" is getting 30 hours of overtime pay (AKA getting rich off the backs of the business owners) in this economy, yet is willing to see the gravy train jump the tracks so the friend can go work at Denny's?
I love it! :lmao:
Did you notice how much OMG looks like OMC ? I didn't... :popcorn:
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And Third, did it cross their little ****ing right wing brains that maybe, just maybe that because of Obama care their employees will be healthier and so not have to call off work, their kids will be happier and healthier and so their parents wont have to call off work because their kids are sick.
And what the DUmmies don't realize is that a lot of companies are going to be saying, "**** it" and paying the fine and simply leaving their workers to fend for themselves, and guess what, DUmmies? You think those companies are gonna say, "Here's X dollars for you to go out in the market and find something?"
Yeah, me either. You own this, but we're all gonna suffer as a result.
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I really don't see where the DUmmies are getting all bent outa shape over this.
Business is evil, right. So private industry closings are good.
After all, Obama is going to get us all govt jobs...isn't that right? Socialism will take over where corporations leave off. The One is right there, ready to fix it all.
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WCGreen is a very smart man, and you can learn much from reading his posts.
He even looks smart. :lmao:
:spork:
#111
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x5409825
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Tell ya what, WCGreen primitive. Why don't you and your fellow idiot primitives step up to the plate, start a company, and fill in the void these businesses are supposedly leaving? Think any of you can get up off your lazy butt and do that? Or are you just going to sit there and complain? Hmmmm, let me guess...
WCGreen primitive, as soon as I see you opening a company and hiring employees then you might grab my attention. In the meanwhile, you aren't worthy to open your stupid mouth and say anymore about it. Got it? I doubt that either.
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I read this on a FB post.
DUmmies bitching about executive compensation being increased.
Brian Driscoll, CEO, from around $750,000 to $2,550,000
Gary Wandscheider, EVP, $500,000 to $900,000
John Stewart, EVP, $400,000 to $700,000
David Loeser, EVP, $375,000 to $656,256
Kent Magill, EVP, $375,000 to $656,256
Richard Seban, EVP, $375,00o to $656,256
John Akeson, SVP, $300,000 to $480,000
Steven Birgfeld, SVP, $240,000 to $360,000
Martha Ross, SVP, $240,000 to $360,000
Rob Kissick, SVP, $182,000 t0 $273,008
And this reply.
your list of executive compensation comes to a total of $7,591,776. Now, lets be generous and say the average employee was pulling in salary (no benefits included) of 40,000 a year. That comes to 740 million, or about 100 times more than it costs them to pay those executives. Now, let's add on to that benefits costs. We'll be really generous here, and say 15,000 a year per employee. That's another 277.5 million. So, total cost of executive pay is about 7.5 million. Total cost of employee pay would be about 1 billion. With revenue totals of about 2.5 billion, that means employee compensation eats about 40% of those revenues while executive compensation eats about .3% of those revenues. Tell me again how it's the executive pay's fault?
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You know, DUmmies, I know that you think your boy won some kind of golden ticket to **** all of us over in your name and we were all suppposed to take it like good little serfs. Yep, we were supposed to bow to obingas super smartness and just hand the nearest moocher our wallet.
But it didn't happen that way, did it? Instead, the business owners reacted the exact way you were warned they would. We told you, the business owners told you, if you reelect obinga the job killer then they would be forced to scale back. They told you that they held back for the first four years on hiring because it was so risky with democrats in power. None of you listened, not one.
Now you want to whine and bitch that someone else is to blame for your selfishness? Somebody else is responsible for your failure? Nobody is buying it, moochtards. Your pathetic leper messiah has nobody to blame this time and neither do you. Honestly, I am starting to be a bit glad that obinga and bitch boy Harry the Mormon are still in charge - kinda...
Bottom line, Dummies? You moochtards
:ownit:
I hate to see Americans hurt, I hate to see this land suffer but some pain has to be felt before people finally get the message - democrats don't give a damn about anyone and liberalism is a mental disorder.
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You know, DUmmies, I know that you think your boy won some kind of golden ticket to **** all of us over in your name and we were all suppposed to take it like good little serfs. Yep, we were supposed to bow to obingas super smartness and just hand the nearest moocher our wallet.
But it didn't happen that way, did it? Instead, the business owners reacted the exact way you were warned they would. We told you, the business owners told you, if you reelect obinga the job killer then they would be forced to scale back. They told you that they held back for the first four years on hiring because it was so risky with democrats in power. None of you listened, not one.
Now you want to whine and bitch that someone else is to blame for your selfishness? Somebody else is responsible for your failure? Nobody is buying it, moochtards. Your pathetic leper messiah has nobody to blame this time and neither do you. Honestly, I am starting to be a bit glad that obinga and bitch boy Harry the Mormon are still in charge - kinda...
Bottom line, Dummies? You moochtards
:ownit:
I hate to see Americans hurt, I hate to see this land suffer but some pain has to be felt before people finally get the message - democrats don't give a damn about anyone and liberalism is a mental disorder.
:clap: :clap: :clap:
Awesome, sir. H5.
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You know, this attitude is precisely why I have little faith in the American public. Although I think it probably is confined largely to idiots like those at DU, I think via the MSM their blame game attitudes spread like poison to the 'low information voter'.Look how foolish women latched on to the war on women despite the vulgar references to their lady parts OR the fact that read any health care plan and comparing apples to oranges things like male sterilzation is covered many times at half the rate of what female sterilization is and most bc methods are actually 100% covered in many plans. Yet women latched onto the viagra thing and the war on women and don't believe their own lying eyes and their refusal to compare apples to oranges. A couple minutes of research would have dispelled the stupidity being thrown around and one on one conversations with friends could have easily pointed out that all that was wanted was an exemption via the first amendment for religious organizations and that, along with a couple step on the dick comments, started the whole war on women things.
Really, for conservatives, our goal should be long term. It's high time we started getting back into academia and journalism to right this wrong. I think it's the only way to lay claim to a cultural shift of our own. I personally see many young people who seem far more conservative then prior generations, but I think for their effectiveness to be felt, unfortunately many boomers are going to have to age out of the game and probably even a lot of Xers too. I don't think it's lost, but I think it's going to be a couple generations out until the kids behind can SEE the results and we raise a generation more thoughtful and introspective then the last.
I guess what I'm saying is I don't think you can teach an old dog new tricks and us oldish dogs probably will have to check out someday before things change.
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WCGreen (43,736 posts)
How ****ing anti-American are these right-wing douche bags that are willing to tank their companies..
Last edited Sat Nov 17, 2012, 12:11 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
just because the election didn't go their way.
We sucked it up and dealt with arguably the worst administration in the last 100 years and still did what we had to do. We didn't sulk or strike, for that matter, we did what AMERICANS are supposed to do; be a loyal opposition.
To publicly say they are going to undermine their companies just because the election didn't go their was is so wrong in so many ways.
First of all, all these mini-titans of industry are violating their fiduciary responsibilities to their investors by not doing what is best for the shareholders.
Second, they are almost, almost right at that line between coercion and personal opinion by publicly saying they are going to tank their companies because of the votes taken by people that work for them.
And Third, did it cross their little ****ing right wing brains that maybe, just maybe that because of Obama care their employees will be healthier and so not have to call off work, their kids will be happier and healthier and so their parents wont have to call off work because their kids are sick.
How did these ass holes get to the top of their companies when they let petty political vendettas rule their actions instead of common sense.
That, my friends, is the god damn truth.
Get over it, douche bags...
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6DQmEn25u7Q/UCh4c6H8jNI/AAAAAAAABp8/WVuylbiKg0Q/s400/5781918-a-little-kid-with-rude-gesture-middle-finger-up.jpg)
CaliforniaPeggy (100,297 posts)
20. Welcome to DU, OpenedMindGuy!
I'm glad you found us.
And you picked an excellent thread to post in. WCGreen is a very smart man, and you can learn much from reading his posts.
He's about as smart as my dick, Piggy. Sorry to crash your fantasy...
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So basically, 51 percent of the American voting public is stuck on stupid. Color me shocked.
And DUmmies--businesses close because of Obamacare, but that's the right's fault? Do tell, I'm fascinated how you made that leap.
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Businessmen are bringing you the news, WCGreen, and all you can think of is killing the messenger. You weak-minded dipshit, you.
:fuelfire:
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He's about as smart as my dick, Piggy. Sorry to crash your fantasy...
Perhaps - but the real question is, is he as smart as calPeg's di.... ahh, nevermind. :-) :popcorn:
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OpenedMindGuy (3 posts)
18. My Friend Works For a Koch Bros. Subsidiary..
She says they are now making noise like they are going to shut down her plant because Obama won.She has been working over 30+hours of O.T. every week for the last 8 months. She is over worked and tired. Now she doesn't care if they fold. She wants them to close. I don't blame her. She should get severance pay and then she wants to go back to school and get retrained as a chef.
Perhaps the "new" Hostess, might be ready to hire by then.
Reasonable pay, reasonable benefits (sans "health" care). The money for that, comes out of your paycheck.
You own it, DUmmies.
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He's about as smart as my dick, Piggy. Sorry to crash your fantasy...
I think that she's far more acquainted with his dick than with yours - for which you can be thankful.
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He even looks smart. :lmao:
:spork:
#111
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x5409825
I suppose it's my own fault for looking at the thread after you gave a spork alert...but my eyes seriously hurt now.
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DUmmies are from time to time demanding boycotts and national strikes to "Shut the country down"....now here we see who has the power and who can actually shut the country down if they wanted too....rightwing business owners.... :lmao:
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I suppose it's my own fault for looking at the thread after you gave a spork alert...but my eyes seriously hurt now.
I did notice that Calpig had the common decency to crop out her adams apple, in her photo.
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DUmmies are from time to time demanding boycotts and national strikes to "Shut the country down"....now here we see who has the power and who can actually shut the country down if they wanted too....rightwing business owners.... :lmao:
Yep!!!! The eeevil business owners done gone and decided that since they built it, they can shut it down just as easily.
Sucks to be you dummies. You wanted it, you voted for it, you got it, you
:ownit:
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I think that she's far more acquainted with his dick than with yours - for which you can be thankful.
Thank God.
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And Third, did it cross their little ****ing right wing brains that maybe, just maybe that because of Obama care their employees will be healthier and so not have to call off work, their kids will be happier and healthier and so their parents wont have to call off work because their kids are sick.
Now, it's broken. Thanks, idiot.
You didn't break that, WCGreen!!
Oh wait...yeah ya did.
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My business exists to make me (and my stockholders) money. That's it. I don't run it for the benefit of the workers , customers or society. If they gain benefit from working for me or purchasing the goods and services I provide , great - but don't think for one instant that my business exists for anyone else.
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Now, it's broken. Thanks, idiot.
You didn't break that, WCGreen!!
Oh wait...yeah ya did.
Wait, Obamacare will cure the hangover? I did not know that.
FWIW in my experience a lot more people abuse sick leave than use sick leave. Then when they actually need to use it they have none as in "Oh poor Joyce, she has double whatever and used all her sick leave on that trip to Maui last spring, now we have to have a spaghetti supper for her so she can pay the rent on her son's ventilator."
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Really, for conservatives, our goal should be long term. It's high time we started getting back into academia and journalism to right this wrong. I think it's the only way to lay claim to a cultural shift of our own. I personally see many young people who seem far more conservative then prior generations, but I think for their effectiveness to be felt, unfortunately many boomers are going to have to age out of the game and probably even a lot of Xers too. I don't think it's lost, but I think it's going to be a couple generations out until the kids behind can SEE the results and we raise a generation more thoughtful and introspective then the last.
Yep, all of that is absolutely true. You have to fix the societal problem before anything else will work. I think the one thing that has frustrated the Hell out of me for the past 15 years or so have been the "fiscal conservatives" that seem to have held sway over what conservatives should put out as a message. They told us that we can't win on social issues, concentrate on money instead, and abandon any type of societal morality to the left. Well, that's been done, and it got us nowhere.
Anyone who tries to tell me that society and finance are separate issues is a damned fool and one not worth listening to. By abandoning society to the left, we have allowed societal rot which will now affect us all, left and right, in the financial arena. You cannot fix money when morality is not a factor - one does affect the other in usually disproportionate manners.
Retaking our communities (city council, school board, etc) is where it all starts but retaking academia is where it matters most. When the colleges quit cranking out propaganda spewing zombies, we might start to see a turnaround in what passes for "thought" in this country. Until then, we're just pissing in the wind.
ETA: Right on cue
Rubio makes his Iowa debut as possible ‘future’ of the Republican Party
But only 11 days after voters went to the polls and Republicans came up short, Rubio was speaking to a crowd that had trained its sights squarely on 2016.
In his speech, Rubio weaved together the personal and the economic. He discussed the importance of a stable family life to a stable economy, and how critical the success of the middle class is not just to the country’s financial situation, but also to its place in the world. American exceptionalism, Rubio said, is important to every nation, not just the United States.
“The way to turn our economy around is not by making rich people poorer; it’s by making poor people richer,†Rubio said.
http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/18/rubio-makes-his-iowa-debut-as-possible-future-of-the-republican-party/
Now, I have neither the time nor inclination to listen to anything he has to say about "common sense immigration reform", but the above bolded is what will win. Reagan knew it, we know it, that is the message that will win from now on out. The above bolded in red is the exact type of language that needs to be used: People, not groups. It seems to me that instead of looking to gather a group, it has been demonstrated that changing individuals within a group will more likely affect the group as a whole. The co-op of the democrat party by the marxists is the prime example of how that works.
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Retaking our communities (city council, school board, etc) is where it all starts but retaking academia is where it matters most. When the colleges quit cranking out propaganda spewing zombies, we might start to see a turnaround in what passes for "thought" in this country. Until then, we're just pissing in the wind.
Exactly. For the life of me, I don't understand why more conservatives haven't connected those dots. I pulled my kids out of public and put them in private, after I got involved with the school district. I could see where that was headed.
Unfortunately, too many conservative parents don't really get to know all the players and curriculum enough until the damage is done. And it's not just done in the schools. Kids programming, groups like the girl scouts, etc...the progressive agendas are all there, and it can be very subtle.
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Retaking our communities (city council, school board, etc) is where it all starts but retaking academia is where it matters most. When the colleges quit cranking out propaganda spewing zombies, we might start to see a turnaround in what passes for "thought" in this country. Until then, we're just pissing in the wind.
Totally agree. There are a few positive signs in the U.S., it isn't so much a case of launching an assault on the liberal bastions but now there are genuine academic alternatives for reasonable and civilised people. A young lad at my home church went to Christendom College, and both he and his parents have nothing but praise for it - he's gone on to do some post-grad work and is contemplating a career in academia. I know that there are other small Catholic colleges which are doing magnificent work...I would imagine that similar efforts are being made by non-Catholics who share some modicum of sanity - the problem is that they're still small and so can be difficult to find and very difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff, but remember that from small acorns mighty oak trees grow.
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Totally agree. There are a few positive signs in the U.S., it isn't so much a case of launching an assault on the liberal bastions but now there are genuine academic alternatives for reasonable and civilised people. A young lad at my home church went to Christendom College, and both he and his parents have nothing but praise for it - he's gone on to do some post-grad work and is contemplating a career in academia. I know that there are other small Catholic colleges which are doing magnificent work...I would imagine that similar efforts are being made by non-Catholics who share some modicum of sanity - the problem is that they're still small and so can be difficult to find and very difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff, but remember that from small acorns mighty oak trees grow.
Our problem is time. This needs to be done en masse. A little here and there isn't going to right this quickly sinking ship. The progressives have been at this a very long time and are well organized.
There also needs to be alternative and affordable colleges. What's going on now is way too expensive and the liberals and central planners have a lock on who gets to teach in most universities. I even wonder about who will get to attend, now that the Government has taken over student funding.
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Retaking our communities (city council, school board, etc) is where it all starts but retaking academia is where it matters most. When the colleges quit cranking out propaganda spewing zombies, we might start to see a turnaround in what passes for "thought" in this country. Until then, we're just pissing in the wind.
Well. Left and Right, most parents raise their kids to be sheltered from any of the messier realities like violence, bloodshed, the fact that some people are just evil SOBs and no amount of psychobabble will change them, or even dirt. What can we really expect from kids raised in ivory tower except a bunch of stupid Pollyanna thinking, and an educator class that thrives in ivory towers? All the fears about warping their tender little psyches have turned out generations of kids with psyches that are totally inadequate to deal with the real world as it is.
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The truly sad part is that the majority of corporations will be fine...union companies like the auto industry, 0bama favored banks and "green" energy companies with a shelf life of five minutes will whether the storm just fine (or be propped up by government funds), though they may lay people off. Small business...the ones we're constantly being told the government wants to help will be forced to close in droves. My BIL, who is one of the best salesman I've ever seen, has tried to hang on but he's now filing for bankruptcy. He'll survive and find some new venture because that's who he is. But they have six kids and they homeschool so there will be some very lean times ahead.
Cindie