The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Tucker on November 14, 2012, 05:41:59 AM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021812745
Stuckinthebush (8,173 posts)
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"If you made 110 points on my test then you can afford to give some to the person who made 72"
This was a response to my daughter from her 10th grade math teacher on why he doesn't vote Democratic.
He said he can't support a party that feels it is ok to give his hard earned money to people who don't work for theirs. He said it would be like a teacher asking a kid who made 110 on a test to give 19 points to someone else who made a 72.
My daughter told me it bothered her because it made sense. My 8th grader in the back seat said, "Wow. It does make sense."
I was ready and explained how that analogy isn't quite accurate.
I discussed income inequality,
I spoke of the import of supporting societal members to protect society as a whole,
I delved deep into the myth of the self made man/woman
I tried to dismantle the straw man of the welfare queen or king
I explained the tax code and how everyone pays the same amount at different income levels
I talked about the tax loopholes for the richest among us
But, the insidious nature of the simple analogy is that it makes sense because of its simplicity.
I would love my brilliant DU friends to help me with a simple story that puts his analogy on the ropes.
I would have loved to hear her explain those topics.
I see her kids voting Republican in the future and her posting on the DUmp on how she has to have another Thanksgiving alone because her family is a bunch of freepers.
Flabbergasted (7,492 posts)
2. Lets say however, you did give that 10 points to the other students....
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and the whole class benefited through improved scores and brought a return to the "best student" of an additional 20 points. That's actually how it works in the real world. It's what built the middle class and created 100's of millionaires to boot.
:mental:
MotherPetrie (305 posts)
4. Is he a public school teacher?
Do they all have to be a Marxist?
Care Acutely (1,094 posts)
44. ba-zing!
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If he doesn't believe in "redistribution" his azz shouldn't be collecting a socialist paycheck and providing his precious skills to the children of the great unwashed masses.
But - that's probably different, I imagine.
proud2BlibKansan (94,131 posts)
30. Why the **** is a teacher even discussing this with a student?
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Drives me batty. So inappropriate. Very unethical.
Dried up old hypocrite. She has no problems of teachers voicing pro democrat party propaganda.
Lots of idiotic replies in this campfire. Too many to bring over.
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proud2BlibKansan (94,131 posts)
30. Why the **** is a teacher even discussing this with a student?
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Drives me batty. So inappropriate. Very unethical.
Bronzy...goldy...
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My daughter told me it bothered her because it made sense. My 8th grader in the back seat said, "Wow. It does make sense."
Love it. Simple common sense. Nice find, Tucker. Helps a little to heal my soul.
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I explained the tax code and how everyone pays the same amount at different income levels
WTF?
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WTF?
I said that several time while reading the thread. There's a lot of stooooopid in this one.
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I've always loved that analogy, here's the 1st 1 I read that's similar:
A young woman was finishing her first year of college. Like so many others her age, she considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat, and was very much in favor of the redistribution of wealth.
She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch Republican, a feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lectures that she had participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt that her father had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his.
One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher taxes on the rich and the addition of more government welfare programs. The self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the truth and she indicated so to her father. He responded by asking how she was doing in school.
Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying, which left her no time to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn't even have time for a boyfriend, and didn't really have many college friends because she spent all her time studying.
Her father listened and then asked, How is your friend Audrey doing?
She replied, Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy classes, she never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA. She is so popular on campus; college for her is a blast. She's always invited to all the parties, and lots of times she doesn't even show up for classes because she's too hung over.
Her father then asked his daughter, Why don't you go to the Deans office and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your friend who only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA.
The daughter, visibly shocked by her fathers suggestion, angrily fired back, That wouldn't be fair! I have worked really hard for my grades! I've invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work! Audrey has done next to nothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail off!
The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, Welcome to the Republican Party.
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HIDDEN CAM PRANK!Obama's Halloween!
[youtube=425,350]fHNBr3PZQaE[/youtube]
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The DUmmies replies to the DUmmie OP sorta reminds me of something I read on the interweb.
"It doesn't much matter if a conservative beats a liberal in an election, they just go back to teaching our children."
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Flabbergasted (7,492 posts)
2. Lets say however, you did give that 10 points to the other students....
and the whole class benefited through improved scores and brought a return to the "best student" of an additional 20 points. That's actually how it works in the real world. It's what built the middle class and created 100's of millionaires to boot.
An unearned score is not going to benefit ANYONE. Ever. That is how you end up with highly unqualified people in charge. Ask O'bama.
KC
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Here's another way to look at it DUmmies;
Let's say you have 10 trainee firefighters. They are all working on climbing a ladder and getting the victim out of a burning home.
5 of them are doing great!
5 of them are failing.
The instructors figure that since 5 of them are doing an outstanding job he will level the field and simply pass all of them.
Which one of them do you want coming to get you out of your burning home?
KC
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I noticed that the Stuckinthebush primitive didn't discuss with their child how the premise of "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is wrong. Wonder why?
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I discussed income inequality,
Grade inequality, like income inequality, can have effects on socio-economic status.
And this is a good thing.
I spoke of the import of supporting societal members to protect society as a whole,
But you lacked th balls to tell your own kid you effectively support confiscatory grading.
I delved deep into the myth of the self made man/woman
Can your child ever be a self-made honor roll student?
I tried to dismantle the straw man of the welfare queen or king
What of all the slackers your child sees graduating even though they cannot read or write?
I explained the tax code and how everyone pays the same amount at different income levels
Just like students graduating illiterate because the corrupt unions don't want to admit their incompetence as they demand gun-point pay raises.
I talked about the tax loopholes for the richest among us
Why do law-abiding producers and tax payers have to spend more money per year to avoid running afoul of a 20,000 page tax law than the average drunk driver spends to stay out of jail for a single offense?
You owe that teacher a year's pay for that lifetime's worth of education imparted during a single 45 minute class.
He EARNED it.
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Flabbergasted (7,492 posts)
2. Lets say however, you did give that 10 points to the other students....
View profile
and the whole class benefited through improved scores and brought a return to the "best student" of an additional 20 points. That's actually how it works in the real world. It's what built the middle class and created 100's of millionaires to boot.
Umm no
In the real world;
The 110 point kid will think "why should I study so hard, I can still get a good grade, besides they will only take away any extra points I make and give them to the dumb kids". Result = the 110 kid studies less, is resentful and has less ambition to excel.
The 72 kid thinks "wow, that's cool, now I don't have to study and can still get a 62 plus the teacher will take an extra 10 from the smart kid and give it to me". Result = The dumb kid gets dumber and lazier, depends on the teacher to take 10 away from the smart kid so he can pass and feels entitled to it.
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I discussed income inequality,
Did you discuss sitting on your ass and drawing a check?
I delved deep into the myth of the self made man/woman
Please explain this myth. I'd like to hear it. May you could tell it to someone like Felix Sabates. If you don't know who Felix is just click the link: here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Sabates)
I tried to dismantle the straw man of the welfare queen or king
So you lied.
I explained the tax code and how everyone pays the same amount at different income levels
Then lied again.
I talked about the tax loopholes for the richest among us
Did you tell about the Earned Income Credit?
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Umm no
In the real world;
The 110 point kid will think "why should I study so hard, I can still get a good grade, besides they will only take away any extra points I make and give them to the dumb kids". Result = the 110 kid studies less, is resentful and has less ambition to excel.
The 72 kid thinks "wow, that's cool, now I don't have to study and can still get a 62 plus the teacher will take an extra 10 from the smart kid and give it to me". Result = The dumb kid gets dumber and lazier, depends on the teacher to take 10 away from the smart kid so he can pass and feels entitled to it.
Muy excelente, Dori, and high 5 to you.
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But, the insidious nature of the simple analogy is that it makes sense because of its simplicity.
Yeah, it's simple math. I guess DUmmies just have too much trouble with simple math.
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Umm no
In the real world;
The 110 point kid will think "why should I study so hard, I can still get a good grade, besides they will only take away any extra points I make and give them to the dumb kids". Result = the 110 kid studies less, is resentful and has less ambition to excel.
The 72 kid thinks "wow, that's cool, now I don't have to study and can still get a 62 plus the teacher will take an extra 10 from the smart kid and give it to me". Result = The dumb kid gets dumber and lazier, depends on the teacher to take 10 away from the smart kid so he can pass and feels entitled to it.
That's pretty much it. ^5
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Umm no
In the real world;
The 110 point kid will think "why should I study so hard, I can still get a good grade, besides they will only take away any extra points I make and give them to the dumb kids". Result = the 110 kid studies less, is resentful and has less ambition to excel.
The 72 kid thinks "wow, that's cool, now I don't have to study and can still get a 62 plus the teacher will take an extra 10 from the smart kid and give it to me". Result = The dumb kid gets dumber and lazier, depends on the teacher to take 10 away from the smart kid so he can pass and feels entitled to it.
High 5 !
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Umm no
In the real world;
The 110 point kid will think "why should I study so hard, I can still get a good grade, besides they will only take away any extra points I make and give them to the dumb kids". Result = the 110 kid studies less, is resentful and has less ambition to excel.
The 72 kid thinks "wow, that's cool, now I don't have to study and can still get a 62 plus the teacher will take an extra 10 from the smart kid and give it to me". Result = The dumb kid gets dumber and lazier, depends on the teacher to take 10 away from the smart kid so he can pass and feels entitled to it.
Direct hit...cease fire! Target destroyed.
^5