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Current Events => General Discussion => Topic started by: donrtowery on November 12, 2012, 10:27:22 PM

Title: help New York secede!
Post by: donrtowery on November 12, 2012, 10:27:22 PM
Many states (at least 20) have filed petitions on the whitehouse website requesting secession from the union.  You can sign petitions for each on to help them hit their goal of 25,000.

click here for petition (http://wh.gov/9maC)
Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: donrtowery on November 12, 2012, 10:31:01 PM
Also, please share the link with friends and family, Facebook, twitter, other forums, anywhere you can think of

 http://wh.gov/9maC
Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: Big Dog on November 12, 2012, 10:34:09 PM
Many states (at least 20) have filed petitions on the whitehouse website requesting secession from the union.  You can sign petitions for each on to help them hit their goal of 25,000.

click here for petition (http://wh.gov/9maC)

Google "Texas v. White."

 :whatever: :whatever: :whatever: :whatever: :whatever:
Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: seahorse513 on November 12, 2012, 10:47:18 PM
I found this article. it  would take 38 states to overturn "White"

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig11/stanley-b1.1.1.html
I am confused to where the 26 states come in however..
Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: donrtowery on November 12, 2012, 11:58:15 PM
Google "Texas v. White."

 :whatever: :whatever: :whatever: :whatever: :whatever:

 "That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new Government." - Declaration of Independence


There is nothing in the Constitution that prevents secession by a state and as such according to the Tenth Amendment, all non-specified rights belong to the states.
Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: Celtic Rose on November 13, 2012, 02:00:39 AM
Google "Texas v. White."

 :whatever: :whatever: :whatever: :whatever: :whatever:

And it wasn't for another year that they were granted congressional representation by President Grant with An Act to admit the State of Texas to Representation in the Congress of the United States.  Hepburn v. Ellzey (another supreme court case) a state is defined by having congressional representation and electoral representation, which Texas did not have between the time that they declared secession until Grant readmitted them in 1870.  Hepburn v. Ellzey is the case that decided that DC is not a state. 

Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: Big Dog on November 13, 2012, 06:09:50 AM
"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new Government." - Declaration of Independence


There is nothing in the Constitution that prevents secession by a state and as such according to the Tenth Amendment, all non-specified rights belong to the states.


Good luck with that.

While you are hard at work trying to convince the other 99.99999% of New Yorkers to unchain themselves from the yoke of American oppression and create your new Bluetopia, ask yourself these questions:
 
What if I win?
What would my New New York look like?
Do I trust my fellow New Yorkers to institute a government that protects my rights and property?
How much am I willing to pay for everything I buy?
Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: txradioguy on November 13, 2012, 06:11:02 AM
"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new Government." - Declaration of Independence


There is nothing in the Constitution that prevents secession by a state and as such according to the Tenth Amendment, all non-specified rights belong to the states.


Oh God here we go again...
Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: seahorse513 on November 13, 2012, 07:08:33 AM
People aren't thinking right now, it is just crazy!!! Obama only has 4 more ears, and that's the end of it. The best thing to do is correct the problems we are having.
Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: vesta111 on November 13, 2012, 07:25:44 AM
People aren't thinking right now, it is just crazy!!! Obama only has 4 more ears, and that's the end of it. The best thing to do is correct the problems we are having.

 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Seems like he does not listen with his original 2. 

Today to correct our problems is akin to cussing out a stepfather holding a big belt ready to come down on you for your own good.

This hurts me they say more then you,  Right,----- as you run to hide in the dog house. 

   
Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: Gina on November 13, 2012, 07:48:08 AM
People aren't thinking right now, it is just crazy!!! Obama only has 4 more ears, and that's the end of it. The best thing to do is correct the problems we are having.

OH GOD NO!

(http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/obama_big-ears.jpg) (http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/obama_big-ears.jpg)
Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: JohnnyReb on November 13, 2012, 07:54:57 AM
OH GOD NO!

(http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/obama_big-ears.jpg) (http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/obama_big-ears.jpg)

Oh my, he has Barry big ears.
Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: seahorse513 on November 13, 2012, 08:21:19 AM
OH GOD NO!

(http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/obama_big-ears.jpg) (http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/obama_big-ears.jpg)
Oh my goodness!!! I didn't see that typo...sorry about that everyone!!
Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: formerlurker on November 13, 2012, 09:32:14 AM
I found this article. it  would take 38 states to overturn "White"

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig11/stanley-b1.1.1.html
I am confused to where the 26 states come in however..

BS for bringing Lew Rockwell over here. 
Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: DefiantSix on November 13, 2012, 09:53:16 AM
What I find most laughable about this, is the whole paradox/hypocrisy these clowns are operating under.  These are people who are petitioning to secede from the United States, largely because they believe the Federal Government is untrustworthy, and yet they are petitioning by affixing THEIR PERSONAL, IDENTIFYING INFORMATION - INCLUDING A GENERAL LOCATION IN WHICH THEY MIGHT BE FOUND - to a digital document ON A FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WEBSITE?!?!   :banghead:  A Federal Government of which it is known to have US citizens on "kill lists", unmanned, absolutely obedient drones to execute those same "kill lists", and "authority" through the NDAA to arrest anybody, anywhere, and detain them indefinitely in direct defiance of the Constitution?   :argh:

Where's your *******ed paranoia when you friggin' need it, you damned IDIOTS?!?!  If these are the Leaders of the next Revolution, pass me the popcorn, because for all of it's brevity, this is going to be like watching a *******ed train wreck. :whatever: :popcorn:
Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: Gina on November 13, 2012, 09:54:33 AM
What I find most laughable about this, is the whole paradox/hypocrisy these clowns are operating under.  These are people who are petitioning to secede from the United States, largely because they believe the Federal Government is untrustworthy, and yet they are petitioning by affixing THEIR PERSONAL, IDENTIFYING INFORMATION - INCLUDING A GENERAL LOCATION IN WHICH THEY MIGHT BE FOUND - to a digital document ON A FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WEBSITE?!?!   :banghead:  A Federal Government of which it is known to have US citizens on "kill lists", unmanned, absolutely obedient drones to execute those same "kill lists", and "authority" through the NDAA to arrest anybody, anywhere, and detain them indefinitely in direct defiance of the Constitution?   :argh:

Where's your *******ed paranoia when you friggin' need it, you damned IDIOTS?!?!  If these are the Leaders of the next Revolution, pass me the popcorn, because for all of it's brevity, this is going to be like watching a *******ed train wreck. :whatever: :popcorn:

I know.  :thatsright:  My paranoia thingy stuck straight out when I was presented the petition.  I passed.
Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: DefiantSix on November 13, 2012, 10:04:17 AM
Oh God here we go again...

:werd:

(http://jasonjeffrey.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/awjeeznotthisshitagain.jpg)
Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: NHSparky on November 13, 2012, 11:24:58 AM
Oh God here we go again...

Pretty much.  These guys remind me of the "Free State Project" dolts in NH.  It's been over a decade and they've failed miserably.

Even the Paulites are looking at them and going, "What retards."
Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: vesta111 on November 13, 2012, 12:05:23 PM
Pretty much.  These guys remind me of the "Free State Project" dolts in NH.  It's been over a decade and they've failed miserably.

Even the Paulites are looking at them and going, "What retards."

How is the Project going anyway ???

Been a while since I was in Manchester watching the open carry wander about with sandwich bags on their arms

.[ inside joke on the seacoast when a bunch of them came down to the beach to help clean it up, most with open  carry
side arms and they had them packed in zip lock bags to keep the sand out.]

Wondering if they are still demonstraiting for side walk Puppet shows.  I have not been to Ridley Report.com in years, may be time to renew old insanity.
Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: J P Sousa on November 13, 2012, 12:51:13 PM
 :-) 

Well this all sounds like fun.

Just thinking out loud mind you, but it would be delicious IF all the red states, you know fly-over states, became their own country and demanded a tax for those wanting to travel from left coast to right coast and vice versa as well as Illinois.

Dreaming can be fun.
.
Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: Karin on November 13, 2012, 01:02:11 PM
I'm kinda with you, Defiantsix.  I've made no comments anywhere on any of the internets.  I understand completely how pissed people are, especially with massive voter fraud having taken place.  New York puzzles me a little bit.  I can see wanting to become "North New York" and "South New York," though.  It is culturally two different entities.  Some parts around here would remind you of Rocky Top, TN.   :-) 
Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: JohnnyReb on November 13, 2012, 01:31:32 PM
What I find most laughable about this, is the whole paradox/hypocrisy these clowns are operating under.  These are people who are petitioning to secede from the United States, largely because they believe the Federal Government is untrustworthy, and yet they are petitioning by affixing THEIR PERSONAL, IDENTIFYING INFORMATION - INCLUDING A GENERAL LOCATION IN WHICH THEY MIGHT BE FOUND - to a digital document ON A FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WEBSITE?!?!   :banghead:  A Federal Government of which it is known to have US citizens on "kill lists", unmanned, absolutely obedient drones to execute those same "kill lists", and "authority" through the NDAA to arrest anybody, anywhere, and detain them indefinitely in direct defiance of the Constitution?   :argh:

Where's your *******ed paranoia when you friggin' need it, you damned IDIOTS?!?!  If these are the Leaders of the next Revolution, pass me the popcorn, because for all of it's brevity, this is going to be like watching a *******ed train wreck. :whatever: :popcorn:

Obamaclaus is making his list....he's checking it twice....gonna find out who's naughty or nice....
Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: Gina on November 13, 2012, 02:50:17 PM
Obamaclaus is making his list....he's checking it twice....gonna find out who's naughty or nice....

 :naughty: :lmao: :naughty: :lmao: :naughty: :lmao: :naughty: :lmao: :naughty: :lmao:
Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: Big Dog on November 13, 2012, 05:52:54 PM
And it wasn't for another year that they were granted congressional representation by President Grant with An Act to admit the State of Texas to Representation in the Congres of the United States.  Hepburn v. Ellzey (another supreme court case) a state is defined by having congressional representation and electoral representation, which Texas did not have between the time that they declared secession until Grant readmitted them in 1870.  Hepburn v. Ellzey is the case that decided that DC is not a state. 

CR,

Read the entire decision in Hepburn v. Elzey (1804) (decision here) (http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a1_8_17s12.html). It does not define a "state" as you have described. Basically, according to Hepburn, a state is a state, and the District of Columbia isn't a state.

Assuming, for the sake of discussion, that your reading and application of Hepburn is correct. Applying Hepburn to the secession of the Confederate states fails, because any of the Confederate states could have sent their Senators and Representatives to Congress; they chose not to.

Texas v. White addresses the point you are making, and rejects it. Read the decision here. (http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0074_0700_ZO.html) The Supreme Court decided that Texas never had the right of secession in the first place, and the US was not bound by the state's act of seceding. Once a state is in the Union, it's in.

 
Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: Rebel on November 14, 2012, 09:55:25 AM
Google "Texas v. White."

 :whatever: :whatever: :whatever: :whatever: :whatever:

All that states is that no where in the constitution is it spelled out that states are permitted to secede. There is no where in the Constitution that permits a state to build state roads either, at least not specifically spelled out. Can you show me where they're prohibited in the Constitution?

Quote
"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it's an instrument for the people to restrain government."


Doesn't matter anyway. When this all comes crashing down, the Constitution isn't going to matter much.
Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: Celtic Rose on November 14, 2012, 12:54:07 PM
CR,

Read the entire decision in Hepburn v. Elzey (1804) (decision here) (http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a1_8_17s12.html). It does not define a "state" as you have described. Basically, according to Hepburn, a state is a state, and the District of Columbia isn't a state.

Assuming, for the sake of discussion, that your reading and application of Hepburn is correct. Applying Hepburn to the secession of the Confederate states fails, because any of the Confederate states could have sent their Senators and Representatives to Congress; they chose not to.

Texas v. White addresses the point you are making, and rejects it. Read the decision here. (http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0074_0700_ZO.html) The Supreme Court decided that Texas never had the right of secession in the first place, and the US was not bound by the state's act of seceding. Once a state is in the Union, it's in.

 

I actually used the dissenting opinion's reference to Hepburn to build my argument.  Rebel makes a good point.  The 10th amendment states: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.  One could make the argument, easily, that at secession is not mentioned in the constitution, that it is a right reserved to the states.  It was a 5 to 3 decision, and three of the pro justices were appointed by Lincoln, one of who had been his campaign manager, and another the Secretary of Treasury. 
Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: BlueStateSaint on November 14, 2012, 01:57:22 PM
I'm kinda with you, Defiantsix.  I've made no comments anywhere on any of the internets.  I understand completely how pissed people are, especially with massive voter fraud having taken place.  New York puzzles me a little bit.  I can see wanting to become "North New York" and "South New York," though.  It is culturally two different entities.  Some parts around here would remind you of Rocky Top, TN.   :-) 

I'd put "South New York" somewhere south of Albany . . . or, at its' highest, the Mohawk River.
Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: Chris_ on November 15, 2012, 08:34:19 AM
[youtube=640,480]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQV_YKBvxbc&feature=g-u-u[/youtube]
Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: wasp69 on November 15, 2012, 09:15:15 AM
[youtube=640,480]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQV_YKBvxbc&feature=g-u-u[/youtube]

Well, isn't that interesting.  I am a firm believer in the right of a Sovereign State to exercise its right to secede from the Union when the governed determine a "divorce" is in their best interest.  I think it would be stupid, our strength lies in our unity, not diversity but I still believe in it as a right.

What the various persons who submitted these petitions to obinga seem to forget is that to secede, one does not ask permission, one makes a declaration (http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html).  Asking a tyrant for permission psychologically puts one in a position of subservience and weakness.
Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: Rebel on November 15, 2012, 09:25:28 AM
I think it would be stupid, our strength lies in our unity, not diversity but I still believe in it as a right.

That ship sailed long ago. I do think a divorce is inevitable. This unity you speak of just does not exist anymore and the difference can be seen in any election map dating back 2 decades. This is our definition of "marriage":


[youtube=425,350]jLWTFhiqYog[/youtube]
Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: Dori on November 15, 2012, 10:07:10 AM
That ship sailed long ago. I do think a divorce is inevitable. This unity you speak of just does not exist anymore and the difference can be seen in any election map dating back 2 decades. This is our definition of "marriage":


I agree with you.  That ship has sailed. Now with all this talk of amnesty for all the illegals (coming from both sides of the isle) is only going to insure that the Democrats will always have a majority in future elections.  The Mexican immigrants have never voted for a Republican above 40%, even after Reagan's amnesty.

Wake up and smell the coffee folks, it's time for conservatives to make other plans for their future and their children's futures.


Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: wasp69 on November 15, 2012, 10:26:50 AM
That ship sailed long ago. I do think a divorce is inevitable. This unity you speak of just does not exist anymore and the difference can be seen in any election map dating back 2 decades.

I know.  It has been demonstrated that a fractured America does not bode well for anyone, least of all us.  The same election maps show increasing conservative popularity in many states where it did not previously exist while at the same time showing a higher concentration of looters which have bred prolifically over the years. 

How do liberty and freedom minded people overcome that?  I don't think secession is the answer in this day and age, I really don't.  Forcing the blue shitholes to have to live with their decisions is the best answer but seceding Sovereign States choosing alliances based on the wishes of the urban hellholes will only harm the very people we have been able to reach over the last 20 years.
Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: Rebel on November 15, 2012, 10:56:35 AM
I know.  It has been demonstrated that a fractured America does not bode well for anyone, least of all us.  The same election maps show increasing conservative popularity in many states where it did not previously exist while at the same time showing a higher concentration of looters which have bred prolifically over the years.  

How do liberty and freedom minded people overcome that?  I don't think secession is the answer in this day and age, I really don't.  Forcing the blue shitholes to have to live with their decisions is the best answer but seceding Sovereign States choosing alliances based on the wishes of the urban hellholes will only harm the very people we have been able to reach over the last 20 years.

THE most liberal senator President in history was just re-elected with a 7.9% U3 rate, almost 18% U6 rate, 10+ more million on food stamps, gas over 3.00 a gallon, a 16 trillion dollar debt, 3+ years of a 1+ trillion dollar deficit, and without a budget for the past 3 years. His plan to fix it is to gut the military, double down on entitlements, and raise taxes on the very people that create the jobs. I see NO way out of this. There may come a time when a mutual, voluntary split may be the least violent way to deal with our differences. The liberals don't want the "Teathuglican" states, and we damn sure don't want to associate with those moonbats who would just as soon rather shit on the US Constitution than actually uphold it. We're in the age of the rule of man, majority rule, MOB rule. As Dinesh so eloquently put it, when you rob Peter to pay Paul, you'll always have the support of Paul. Stick a fork in us.
Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: wasp69 on November 15, 2012, 11:14:46 AM
THE most liberal senator President in history was just re-elected

Barely, and with no mandate to do anything other than continue the gridlock of the last two years.  Look at the map, Reb, we're not defeated.
Title: Re: help New York secede!
Post by: Rebel on November 15, 2012, 12:11:23 PM
Barely, and with no mandate to do anything other than continue the gridlock of the last two years.  Look at the map, Reb, we're not defeated.

The map is pretty immaterial, other than gauging where ideology lies, as most of the red are counties and areas in general with sparse populations. In the meantime, or the next four years shall I say....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonin_Scalia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Kennedy

Both 76. That was one of the MAIN damn points I was trying to tell all these ****ing idiots vowing to show their displeasure by voting for Gary Johnson. We should have won this election in a landslide with ****ing Daffy Duck running with Goofy as his ****ing running mate. He does have a mandate. He has a senate on his side. Gridlock you say? How did that work at stopping this dictator wannabe the last 2 years? He does whatever the **** he wants to do, and when someone says something about it, the Damn media is out there trying to destroy the person.

Yeah, we're pretty ****ed. I've tried to remain the optimist. Last week killed it. No one is going to sell me poison ivy wrapped in azalea packaging.