The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: dutch508 on May 27, 2008, 01:49:50 PM
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arcadian (145 posts) Tue May-27-08 10:58 AM
Original message
The military as guardians of freedom meme.
[http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3345724]
I can not believe the people here who are proponents of this concept. And I've actually seen some post the "freedom isn't free" meme that I thought one would only see on freerepublic. The rights granted to me by the U.S. Constitution are inalienable rights, they are universal human rights that persons have by merely being born. They are personal and they are mine as they are yours. I don't presume to know what's best for you in regards to your rights and I expect the same in return.
The notion that my freedoms, my rights are being protected by somebody who I did not ask for protection or that these rights need protection by somebody other than myself destroys the core value of these rights which are guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution. It essentially makes me a subordinate to those who would presume to "protect my rights", requiring my acknowledgment of said so-called protection or thanks for a service I did not ask for.
Again I will say, my rights are guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution not by the barrel of a soldiers gun. I have no animosity for those who choose to serve in the military, but I view them as nothing more than government employees who happen to work for a department with whose policy objectives I am frequently at odds.
What a ****ing whiney bitch.
Good think our guns have saved you from speaking German, Russian, or Arabic, shithead.
BlooInBloo (1000+ posts) Tue May-27-08 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
1. Eh, they're a bit more than *just* government employees, due to the risks they're subjected to....
But in the large, I mostly agree. Especially when vets talk about non-vets' opinions not mattering, since they haven't served in the military. Those folks can **** off.
But vets who aren't like that deserve respect for the risk they and their families undertake.
JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Tue May-27-08 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. But what will the peasants of Vietnam say?
Edited on Tue May-27-08 01:17 PM by JackRiddler
The ones who were bombed by John McCain, for example? The ones who are still poisoned by Agent Orange?
The US was attacked in World War II and righteously fought back.
Care to justify its foreign policies since as "preserving freedom"?
What about the "war on terror"? Do you understand that your rhetoric is exactly what is being used to justify the rape of Iraq - that it's to "defend our freedoms"?
The military patriot-fetishists of any country see every foreign "threat" to their freedom, no matter how ephemeral, and at the same time they are blind to the threat to freedom that is by far the most common and dire in every nation, the one that comes from their own government, their own ruling classes, their own militaries.
Why did the Bill of Rights include a second amendment based in the understanding that the people might want to overthrow the government again one day? Or a third amendment, against being forced to quarter soldiers? What was up with that, didn't they know those soldiers protect them? Madison said the greatest threat to freedom was not the English crown but a standing army, why is that?
Hobarticus (1000+ posts) Tue May-27-08 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
4. Meh....not worth getting worked up over
The military's a shitty ****in' life. Terrible pay, lousy home life, and on top of it, you get sent to shitholes to kill or be killed by people you have no personal grudge with.
True, it's a choice they make, sometimes willingly and eagerly, but I for one am glad and personally thankful that they are willing to do it. Which to me, makes their job that much more worthy of respect. Doesn't mean I respect what they're ordered to do, just that they do it. Referring to them as mere "government employees" is pretty disrespectful and obnoxious, in my opinion.
I have several friends, Army and Marine, who have been back and forth already. They love their job but hate this *******ed war. Imagine wrestling with that career agnst.
If a soldier says it and believes it to make what they do for a living worthwhile, then so be it. I know it isn't true, for a myriad of reasons like you listed.
If a soldier's family says it...well, if they believe it, it's no skin off my nose to indulge them that.
If a civilian says it, I just roll my eyes and pity their ignorance of our Constitution.
But I guess I'm not about to tell some private or marine humping three tours in Iraq, while also trying to raise a family on a salary just above the poverty line, that he isn't making sacrifices for me and that he's little more than a government employee, y'know?
Odds are this ****head never served.
butlerd (637 posts) Tue May-27-08 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
5. I always bristle whenever I hear that "freedom isn't free" meme
Particularly whenever it is used to (somehow) justify our UNPROVOKED and ILLEGAL invasion occupation of Iraq. While I would agree that during WW2 the entire world and, potentially, the future prospect of democratic governance in general definitely faced what seemed to be a genuine threat of domination by the ORIGINAL "Axis of Evil", specifically Germany, Italy, and Japan. I would argue that this meme would probably also have been appropriate during the decades long standoff with the Soviet Union whose outcome could've not only been the conquest of our country but also the literal end of our species' existence. Trying to apply the "freedom isn't free" meme to any present day situation (i.e. Iraq, Iran), however makes it just seem hollow and meaningless, particularly since the only genuine "threat" to "freedom" that the world faces today is a ragtag band of terrorist cells that, while certainly dangerous and capable of a lot of chaos and mayhem (although not quite on the level that some people would like to have us believe), are not capable of invading other countries and overthrowing governments like...um....we are.
Our military have fought and died to bring freedom to other people. That is a concept of self sacrifice you DUmmies find hard to understand.
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I can not believe the people here who are proponents of this concept. And I've actually seen some post the "freedom isn't free" meme that I thought one would only see on freerepublic. The rights granted to me by the U.S. Constitution are inalienable rights, they are universal human rights that persons have by merely being born. They are personal and they are mine as they are yours. I don't presume to know what's best for you in regards to your rights and I expect the same in return.
(http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/7874/libtardhr4.jpg)
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Again I will say, my rights are guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution not by the barrel of a soldiers gun. I have no animosity for those who choose to serve in the military, but I view them as nothing more than government employees who happen to work for a department with whose policy objectives I am frequently at odds.
The Constitution sets forth what rights are to be protected, but if someone tries to take those rights away it's not going to pick up a gun and stand between them and you. I mean, I've seen some strange things in my years but I've never seen a piece of paper do that.
Isn't there some way we can partition off a state or two and move these assholes into that area? Just give them a piece of dirt they can all congregate on and create their own little socialist's paradise. Call it Dumfukistan or Traitoria or something. I'm tired of breathing the same air as these pigs.
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Again I will say, my rights are guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution not by the barrel of a soldiers gun. I have no animosity for those who choose to serve in the military, but I view them as nothing more than government employees who happen to work for a department with whose policy objectives I am frequently at odds
I guess some don't get it that the U.S. Constitution is toilet paper outside the U.S. But it's apparently impervium within our borders. So, the next time we have a Pearl Harbor or a 9/11, we should have plenty of human shield volunteers out front, wrapped in copies of the Constitution.
By the way, whatever happened to all those human shield volunteers lined up for the Middle East?
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Lots of luck with that "Inalienable" stuff if nobody with a gun and guts is willing to stand between your sad DU ass and the people who don't see things the same way you do. Asswipe.
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The rights granted to me by the U.S. Constitution are inalienable rights, they are universal human rights that persons have by merely being born.
Don't claim rights under the Constitution you want to destroy, you silly twit.
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"Inalienable rights"......as defined by DUmmies.
life......welfare, foodstamps, free healthcare, free housing ......and I don't have to work.
Liberty......do whatever, say whatever, act however I want with no restrictions.....except on those that don't agree with me.
and the pursuit of Happiness......having all the sex, drugs and stuff I can get my hands on.
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Again I will say, my rights are guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution not by the barrel of a soldiers gun. I have no animosity for those who choose to serve in the military, but I view them as nothing more than government employees who happen to work for a department with whose policy objectives I am frequently at odds.
The Constitution sets forth what rights are to be protected, but if someone tries to take those rights away it's not going to pick up a gun and stand between them and you. I mean, I've seen some strange things in my years but I've never seen a piece of paper do that.
Isn't there some way we can partition off a state or two and move these assholes into that area? Just give them a piece of dirt they can all congregate on and create their own little socialist's paradise. Call it Dumfukistan or Traitoria or something. I'm tired of breathing the same air as these pigs.
I hear the lunar surface is very nice this time of year.
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Again I will say, my rights are guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution not by the barrel of a soldiers gun. I have no animosity for those who choose to serve in the military, but I view them as nothing more than government employees who happen to work for a department with whose policy objectives I am frequently at odds.
The problem is DUmbfuk there are those out there in the world who believe the koran means your/our constitution doesn`t apply and if you insist otherwise you have to be eliminated (that means killed...brutally).
Now what do you do genius?