The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: SSG Snuggle Bunny on September 12, 2012, 08:11:56 AM
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Odin2005 (45,659 posts)
Not liking an offensive movie is not an excuse to riot and kill people.
Why do these folks in Libya and Egypt think the US government has anything to do with an Israeli guy's offensive low-budget film?
cali (74,115 posts)
1. No, but I think the guy who made this is also responsible for the rioting and deaths.
I saw the trailer, did you?
Odin2005 (45,659 posts)
7. Being offended by a movie is no excuse.
civilized people don't riot and kill because they were offended by a movie.
Spider Jerusalem (14,166 posts)
45. Define "civilised"
I really think that's quite condescending, in many ways; you manage to display an apparent total lack of awareness of the fact that we're talking about what is in many ways a disctinctly non-Western, non-secular, non-"first world" premodern society, with extreme poverty, high rates of illiteracy, poor education, and fundamentalist religiosity. I put it to you: what result do you think something equally offensive with Christianity as the subject would have had in seventeeth century England? Spain? America? And "offensive" and "blasphemous" are not the same thing, to a believer. Whether you happen to believe yourself is irrelevant (I don't, personally); the fact remains that it's something people who DO believe will take much more seriously.
Now, can we please go back to calling low tax advocates "Teahadists"?
Odin2005 (45,659 posts)
48. I have no use for cultural relativism, sorry.
Human rights are universal.
Spider Jerusalem (14,166 posts)
57. That's a nice idea, but in principle, it doesn't work that way
human societies have vastly different cultures. You don't have to like it, but you're either blind or stupid if you reject it out of hand. Telling a believer not to perceive blasphemy as something worthy of death is not going to fly. You're talking about people who inhabit a completely different consensus reality.
And NB that cultural relativism and moral relativism are NOT THE SAME THING, so please stop acting as though they are, thanks.
Meanwhile, Western civilization which has always been colonialist and imperialist is condemned for being colonialist and imperialist.
Odin2005 (45,659 posts)
60. The "blasphemy" horseshit almost got a Pakistani girl with Down's Syndrome lynched.
Spider Jerusalem (14,166 posts)
67. Sure, and it got one of my ancestors burned at the stake in the reign of Bloody Mary Tudor
same thing. We're talking about, essentially, a premodern, non-industrialised, poor, uneducated society. Your expecting such a society to have evolved Western, generally, and American, specifically, ideas on freedom of speech and expression is rather touching but shockingly naive.
Shut the **** up.
How's that for not be naive?
Codeine (12,123 posts)
8. No. The ****nuts who are rioting and killing over a stupid little half-assed film
bear 100% of the responsibility.
I simply REFUSE to buy into the "watch what you say" mentality.
Tigress DEM (5,949 posts)
69. So you are against laws that say you can't yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theater?
This is about much more than "watch what you say" it's about misusing a powerful medium during a time of war to put fuel on the flames.
It's difficult here to sort out the truth from propaganda, so how are people half way across the world not to know this isn't some government film that represents the US attitude toward them?
Man, when will the sensibilities of Christians and Jews get this much deference?
liberal N proud (40,250 posts)
3. Much of the world does not understand freedom of speech like we do.
They will tie something one American does to all of America because they don't agree with it.
Those who push for shutting down FOX News are going to lecture us.
How quaint.
graham4anything (276 posts)
15. makes me wonder if a repubteapartylibertarian sympathizer set this up
to get the rightwing reaction it has
(btw- notice how fast the repubteapartylibertarians pounced on this, as if they
had pre-notice it would happen, hmmmmmmmmmmm
(and I am not a cter either).
Response to Odin2005 (Original post)
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 07:47 AM
hlthe2b (43,699 posts)
5. Is there anyone, ANYONE on DU who is saying otherwise? That doesn't mean those stoking the violence
and spreading their own brand of bigoted hate with this movie, should be held up as mere "innocent" advocates of Free Speech and held to no account, whatsoever.
This thread.
Read it.
And then on his next post...
hlthe2b (43,699 posts)
16. The Middle East is not the United States. We might like to asert our views and philosophy on them...
Last edited Wed Sep 12, 2012, 08:03 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
but, guess what... they are not the province of the US and for most have NEVER experienced nor embraced the concept of free speech. As much as we might like to assume our own system to be the hallmark by which the world functions, it is not at this point in time. Nor are we innocent in the eyes of most in the ME, given our entry into wars in their region, including one based on fabrications.
If we are ever to make progress in the ME, our views are going to have to be a bit more comprehensive and we are going to have to check our HATE-filled, bigoted agitators, even while we try to find a balance in preservation of free speech.
:jerkit:
Earth_First (9,416 posts)
10. So you missed the past 10 years of Middle East occupation?
This isn't a single, stand alone issue which created the volitility which ultimately errupted into violence.
This writing has been on the wall for a long, long time. It was only a matter of when, not if.
I blame Bush for 1600 years of Muslim savagery.
Odin2005 (45,659 posts)
12. So you are saying Libyans and Egyptians are too stupid to see the difference...
...between the actions of the US government and the actions of an ISRAELI filmmaker?
graham4anything (276 posts)
18. this was a few people
you keep instigating a wrong analogy
WHY???
THAT IS BUSH/CHENEY LIKE and got us rah rah rah into Iraq
have you learned nothing?
rfranklin (12,936 posts)
20. And it is likely that this is a phoney incident ginned up by some intelligence agency...
Very possibly Mossad at the behest of Netabyahu.
rfranklin once told a guy with an H1B visa to go back to where he came from.
seabeyond (76,777 posts)
33. i never go into making it something i do not know.... but, yes. there are people that backed this
Last edited Wed Sep 12, 2012, 08:14 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
knowing the end game.
it is all disgusting and people died.
graham4anything (276 posts)
19. Its like the morons in the repubteapartylibertarians taking guns to town hall
and then Gabbie Giffords almost died and a judge did
Hate speech (from US hatelords Rush and Sean and KarlRove are directly responsible for hate action).
BTW-a report says the ambassador was sufficated in a car, NOT SHOT
Is there more than meets the eye to his killing?
enquiring minds want to know
Exactly the same except for being completely different.
And it goes on like this.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021324514
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polichick (29,791 posts)
66. Those who purposely incited should have been arrested after the last...
...abortion doctor killing and the shooting of the Senator.
Our DOJ let's them all walk - including war criminals.
The mask slips.
THIS is exactly what they want with their little speech codes.
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Meanwhile, in another thread...
dkf (28,879 posts)
OMG Drudge has a pic of the body of someone being hoisted around by Libyans.
Is that the Ambassador?
Awful awful.
tjdee (17,900 posts)
1. Way to be inflammatory.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021325342
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The DUches have a point. Their posts over there provoke me to condone violence against them. Maybe they should shut the hell up before they push someone over the edge with their naivety.
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Honestly, I think there are world class moles over there that are martial arts pot stirrers. I wish I had a program. You can't tell who the players are without a program.
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So let me get this straight.
Because a bunch of third world savages do not understand free speech, I have to curtail my right to free speech?
Like this movie or not, its protected by freedom. Free speech trumps islamic outrage.
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Kill 'em all.......then we go after the Muslims. :-)
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Kill 'em all.......then we go after the Muslims. :-)
Just the usual range qualification before deployment.
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Tigress DEM (5,949 posts)
69. So you are against laws that say you can't yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theater?
This is about much more than "watch what you say" it's about misusing a powerful medium during a time of war to put fuel on the flames.
What war? Didn't Obama end all wars and bring peace to the world. Didn't Obama buy the world a Coke and teach them to sing in peace and harmony?
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Obama doesn't declare war... he just issues executive orders without Congressional approval, providing Libyans and the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt with weapons to use against US embassies.
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19. Its like the morons in the repubteapartylibertarians taking guns to town hall
and then Gabbie Giffords almost died and a judge did
They just wont let go of their made-up narrative. :hammer:
No need of a caption for this;
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRGZRrVNSBLnGD4VYbMmlDp9rDr-MwK6I1ED7Nyl95azRG6Te8JMA)
.
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Insulting Christians? Still cool.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1322138
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1018177476
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3689836
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Hope all you gay DUmmies are paying attention. The religion of peace views your sexuality as blasphemous. Please don't expect your fellow DUmmies to save you.That would be viewed as inciting a riot.
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Hope all you gay DUmmies are paying attention. The religion of peace views your sexuality as blasphemous. Please don't expect your fellow DUmmies to save you.That might be viewed as inciting a riot.
Just go to your slaughter peacefully. No need to incite your executioners.
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Just go to your slaughter peacefully. No need to incite your executioners.
Exactly
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tjdee (17,900 posts)
1. Way to be inflammatory.
Oh, you mean like every media outlet in America reporting (film at 11) members of our military's charred bodies through the streets of Fallujah? You mean inflammatory like that?
Cindie
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Oh, you mean like every media outlet in America reporting (film at 11) members of our military's charred bodies through the streets of Fallujah? You mean inflammatory like that?
Cindie
Some injustices cause their hearts to bleed profusely.
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Kill 'em all.......then we go after the Muslims. :-)
So, we go after JournoIslam first then, IslamIslam second?
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And now the little thugs are claiming they make no moral equivalencies...
DonViejo (68 posts)
Jon Kyl: Embassy Statement Was Like Telling A Raped Woman She ‘Asked For It’
Source: TPM
Here's what Kyl said, as quoted by Roll Call reporter Meredith Shiner:
"It's like the judge telling the woman who got raped, 'You asked for it because of the way you dressed.' OK? That's the same thing. 'Well America, you should be the ones to apologize, you should have known this would happen, you should have done — what I don't know — but it's your fault that it happened.' You know, for a member of our State Department to put out a statement like that, it had to be cleared by somebody. They don't just do that in the spur of the moment."
Read more: http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/jon-kyl-embassy-statement-was-like-telling-raped
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014227599
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Odin2005 (45,659 posts)
48. I have no use for cultural relativism, sorry.
Human rights are universal.
You're almost right, DUmmie OdinNumbers. Secure individuals rights and you secure everyone's rights.
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graham4anything (276 posts)
15. makes me wonder if a repubteapartylibertarian sympathizer set this up
to get the rightwing reaction it has
(btw- notice how fast the repubteapartylibertarians pounced on this, as if they
had pre-notice it would happen, hmmmmmmmmmmm
(and I am not a cter either).
You're almost there, DUmmie Fall4anything. Just say, "I blame Bush!" and cross the Rubicon on toasted legs.
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You're almost there, DUmmie Fall4anything. Just say, "I blame Bush!" and cross the Rubicon on toasted legs.
Against the turning tide.