The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: thundley4 on August 15, 2012, 07:04:05 PM
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WCGreen (42,385 posts)
As a tax preparer and a liberal I have always looked at the Earned Income Credit as
one of the best ideas to, as my grandmother use to say, come down the pike.
It rewards the worker with money from the government. It can be taken on a paycheck by paycheck basis or be returned in a lump sum in the form of a large refund. A lot of my clients depend on this as a "forced" saving plan that allows them to plan for a new refrigerator, or a new car or to take a much deserved vacation. WTF?
It helps the over all economy because it puts more money in the hands of people who will, 9 times out of 10, spend that money and so goose the economy a little bit.
It also helps the small business owner who can hire extra help and pay them what he can afford knowing that the EITC is there to subsidize the salary or wage.
All in all this has been one of the most successful example of government "interfering" in the market place...
The reason I bring this up is to show you that republicans were once willing to do something that was good for more than the people at the top. First, it was enacted in the Nixon/Ford administration and was revamped in the 1986 revamping of the tax code done by the Reagan Administration.
Of course that was when Republicans and Democrats could work together.
If the same crew that is in the House now was in the house back in '75, the EITC would never even make it to the floor for a vote.
This is a good example of how radical this crowd really is.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021139637
CaliforniaPeggy (97,466 posts)
1. This is a good way to see the Earned Income Credit.
I appreciate the history lesson...It's really helpful to see how the atmosphere has changed in DC.
There was no history lesson, just BS. The only way to see the EITC is as a form of welfare. Giving people something for nothing.
hedgehog (27,941 posts)
2. I've always been ambivalent. It really helps hard working people who need it,
but I have to wonder how much it's subsidizing employers who could afford to pay a decent wage. Even if the employer can't afford to pay the worker better, either the employer is an incompetent business person or the customers are being subsidized. Food stamps for working people fall into the same category. They keep families from going hungry, but are really subsidizing the 1%!
Not much of a bonfire. I find it hard to believe the OP, the Wagreens primitive is a tax preparer. Maybe they use software and do the taxes for friends and family.
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The problem with the EITC is, they typically pay in a few hundred dollars, and get a refund of a couple of grand.
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It rewards the worker?
**** you, DUmmies. I've seen guys quit jobs when they knew they were getting close to the limit for EIC so they could still collect it and sit on their asses until after Christmas/New Years.
And of course, because they were "po", they would get their taxes done for free.
I saw one guy who I knew didn't work more than 4 months out of the year buying drinks for his buddies at the bar one night this past February with "HIS" $6000 "refund." Meanwhile, I bust my balls 50-55 hours a week and get less of MY money back, and got what I did back only because of the interest deduction on my mortgage.
**** you DUmmies--**** you all in the ass with a flaming poker.
Freeper--couple grand? Try about 8 grand if you can claim a couple of kids.
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lot of my clients depend on this as a "forced" saving plan
:whatever:
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Our family is "too rich" for the EIC... so I don't really know what you're talking about.
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The problem with the EITC is, they typically pay in a few hundred dollars, and get a refund of a couple of grand.
Or pay in nothing. I remember working for a company back in the late 80s or early 90s. They were supposed to be have me listed as single and 0 dependents. At the end of the year I got back a few dollars back federal but had to pay a couple of hundred state. One of the other guys working at the time was getting paid as contract labor and got a 1099. He got back $1500 or so.
Just so the DUmmies can understand...
I paid in all year and still had to pay at the end of the year.
The other guy didn't pay anything and got $1500 back.
Yeah. That's a great idea.
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It rewards the worker?
**** you, DUmmies. I've seen guys quit jobs when they knew they were getting close to the limit for EIC so they could still collect it and sit on their asses until after Christmas/New Years.
And of course, because they were "po", they would get their taxes done for free.
I saw one guy who I knew didn't work more than 4 months out of the year buying drinks for his buddies at the bar one night this past February with "HIS" $6000 "refund." Meanwhile, I bust my balls 50-55 hours a week and get less of MY money back, and got what I did back only because of the interest deduction on my mortgage.
**** you DUmmies--**** you all in the ass with a flaming poker.
Freeper--couple grand? Try about 8 grand if you can claim a couple of kids.
We havent gotten money back in over 10 years. We pay more, a lot more, every single year.
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Or pay in nothing. I remember working for a company back in the late 80s or early 90s. They were supposed to be have me listed as single and 0 dependents. At the end of the year I got back a few dollars back federal but had to pay a couple of hundred state. One of the other guys working at the time was getting paid as contract labor and got a 1099. He got back $1500 or so.
Just so the DUmmies can understand...
I paid in all year and still had to pay at the end of the year.
The other guy didn't pay anything and got $1500 back.
Yeah. That's a great idea.
I am convinced this is exactly why so many people do not see taxes as a bad thing, not only do they not pay, they get a huge check every year. If we had to write out a check every pay day for our taxes I bet more people would catch on.
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I am convinced this is exactly why so many people do not see taxes as a bad thing, not only do they not pay, they get a huge check every year. If we had to write out a check every pay day for our taxes I bet more people would catch on.
And people do not realize that many people only get back a small portion if anything. Uncle Obama is blowing the rest.
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And people do not realize that many people only get back a small portion if anything. Uncle Obama is blowing the rest.
Next tax season do an experiment, ask your friends and coworkers how much they paid in taxes, and count how many say, "Nothing, I got a refund", and how many will say, "I paid in x and got back y". Bet you more will say they paid nothing.
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WCGreen (42,385 posts)
As a tax preparer and a liberal
Translation from DUmmy to English, "As a seasonal employee at H&R Block".
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Next tax season do an experiment, ask your friends and coworkers how much they paid in taxes, and count how many say, "Nothing, I got a refund", and how many will say, "I paid in x and got back y". Bet you more will say they paid nothing.
That's what almost everyone says, and I doubt they remember how much the feds kept.
I over paid the last few years, but that was because Obama has made it kind of hard to plan ahead.
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Next tax season do an experiment, ask your friends and coworkers how much they paid in taxes, and count how many say, "Nothing, I got a refund", and how many will say, "I paid in x and got back y". Bet you more will say they paid nothing.
This mind-game of having income taxes deducted from the paycheck was deliberately invented by someone in the Roosevelt administration during the second world war.
Up until that time, people just did their income tax returns and pay the full tax, which was then due on March 15.
It wasn't that big of a deal, because income taxes at the time were pretty small.
But some New Deal genius figured that by having the income taxes deducted from paychecks little by little over the course of a year, there would be less public resistance if taxes went up.
Well, that's exactly what happened. And the Democrats since 1942 have been taking advantage of it.
I think it's time we went back to the old way, no deductions over the year, everyone paying the total sum in March.
This would make people more aware of how much is stolen from them.
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This mind-game of having income taxes deducted from the paycheck was deliberately invented by someone in the Roosevelt administration during the second world war.
Up until that time, people just did their income tax returns and pay the full tax, which was then due on March 15.
It wasn't that big of a deal, because income taxes at the time were pretty small.
But some New Deal genius figured that by having the income taxes deducted from paychecks little by little over the course of a year, there would be less public resistance if taxes went up.
Well, that's exactly what happened. And the Democrats since 1942 have been taking advantage of it.
I think it's time we went back to the old way, no deductions over the year, everyone paying the total sum in March.
This would make people more aware of how much is stolen from them.
Yep, if you don't actually see it, you don't miss it. If it's just numbers on a check stub and you never held the money in your hand you won't notice it being gone.
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It rewards the worker?!?!?!? WTH?!?!??!?
That shows how stupid that OP is. There are a lot of people on welfare who get jobs at a temp agency for two weeks to a month out of the year so they can claim EIC on their eight scruffy kids. They then sit on their butt the rest of the year sponging off us tax payers. Then them getting EIC is also sponging off us tax payers. Some people are tools, with welfare bums being some of the biggest of them all.
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Taxes probably wouldn't bother me so much if I knew they were being put to good use, but when I ride through the same neighborhood every day at all hours of the day and see the same group of working aged men (and women) ganged up under an oak tree drinking beer and having a good time ever day it kind of gets on my nerves because I figure there's a pretty good chance that my tax dollars paid for some of that beer. Call me an evil rethug, but I don't really consider that good use.
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This mind-game of having income taxes deducted from the paycheck was deliberately invented by someone in the Roosevelt administration during the second world war.
Up until that time, people just did their income tax returns and pay the full tax, which was then due on March 15.
It wasn't that big of a deal, because income taxes at the time were pretty small.
But some New Deal genius figured that by having the income taxes deducted from paychecks little by little over the course of a year, there would be less public resistance if taxes went up.
Well, that's exactly what happened. And the Democrats since 1942 have been taking advantage of it.
I think it's time we went back to the old way, no deductions over the year, everyone paying the total sum in March.
This would make people more aware of how much is stolen from them.
Go one step further. Election day is the day after taxes are due...
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How in the world can DUmmies say the Earned Income Tax Credit "rewards the worker." It does exactly the opposite. The worker has a tax burden. He or she pays an amount regularly via deductions from the pay check. When filing the income tax return, sometimes the worker gets a little of that back in the form of a refund, and sometimes the worker has to write a check because not enough was withheld to cover his/her tax burden.
If monies were not redistributed in the form of the EIC (or EITC) to other folks, the worker who actually has a tax burden might have a smaller burden. But carrying others on his back makes that impossible.
I really hate it when people who received funds via the EIC say they "got X amount back." They did not get squat "back", they instead got dollars that I should have gotten, but could not because I am forced to help support them by the IRS.
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How in the world can DUmmies say the Earned Income Tax Credit "rewards the worker." It does exactly the opposite. The worker has a tax burden. He or she pays an amount regularly via deductions from the pay check. When filing the income tax return, sometimes the worker gets a little of that back in the form of a refund, and sometimes the worker has to write a check because not enough was withheld to cover his/her tax burden.
If monies were not redistributed in the form of the EIC (or EITC) to other folks, the worker who actually has a tax burden might have a smaller burden. But carrying others on his back makes that impossible.
I really hate it when people who received funds via the EIC say they "got X amount back." They did not get squat "back", they instead got dollars that I should have gotten, but could not because I am forced to help support them by the IRS.
Exactly H5
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The problem with the EITC is, they typically pay in a few hundred dollars, and get a refund of a couple of grand.
Shoot I know a couple where the women didn't work, she had to be home with the kid doncha' know, and the guy drifted from small job to small job as a laborer. They weren't married but he filed as head of household with two dependents. They paid in very little and the woman and the kid were drawing the full spectrum of welfare. They got a check from the IRS north of $15,000. They could have used that on education, or tools, or anything to improve their lot. They blew it on a big TV, a new-ish car, and video games. Their right back where they were last year, except now they have a big Hi-Def TV and a new car that already looks trashed.
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The problem with the EITC is, they typically pay in a few hundred dollars, and get a refund of a couple of grand
I know a lady with three kids that was paid back all she paid in plus another 5k in EIC. That is a nice check.
She also recieves SS benefits for her kids as their bio father was killed. I have no problem with that as the guy owed her thousands in back support and she was raising these kids on her own, he was a dead beat taking truck driving jobs for cash so his wages could not be garnished.
Now I have also heard of others that did not qualify for EIC letting other family memebers claim their children so they could get the refund!!! I overheard one girl say "my sister is going to let me claim one of her kids this year so I can try and buy a car."
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Multiply these horror stories by millions.
A "foreced savings plan?" WTF. And I had to laugh at the "much needed vacation." What's that? I got to go camping for one night, that was it.
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We havent gotten money back in over 10 years. We pay more, a lot more, every single year.
BEG--the only reason I don't owe is becaue 1--I file Single-0 because I have to, and 2--I get to take my mortgage interest deduction.
Trust me, I'd rather have an extra couple hundred per paycheck versus giving the government an interest-free loan for a year.
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Next tax season do an experiment, ask your friends and coworkers how much they paid in taxes, and count how many say, "Nothing, I got a refund", and how many will say, "I paid in x and got back y". Bet you more will say they paid nothing.
And VERY few will know how much they paid in ALL taxes--state, federal, property, SS, Medicare, etc...
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Those are easily tabulated, though. How about sales taxes in high sales tax and gas tax states like NY and California? Over a year's time, it would make your head explode. I tried doing the exercise once, but it caused a dark depression.
(Plus smokes tax. Where are the razor blades?)
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I know a lady with three kids that was paid back all she paid in plus another 5k in EIC. That is a nice check.
She also recieves SS benefits for her kids as their bio father was killed. I have no problem with that as the guy owed her thousands in back support and she was raising these kids on her own, he was a dead beat taking truck driving jobs for cash so his wages could not be garnished.
Now I have also heard of others that did not qualify for EIC letting other family memebers claim their children so they could get the refund!!! I overheard one girl say "my sister is going to let me claim one of her kids this year so I can try and buy a car."
I see that happening all the time as well. Some of them don't even tell the person they are claiming them. An old friend of mine and his wife have four kids (his wife's mother is raising two of them, so they hardly ever sees them). They get a check every month because all four are on SSDI for asthma and ADHD (note I said she does, her mother gets nothing for raising the two kids); they also get welfare and food stamps. His mother pays for his mortgage, his two brand new truck payments, and his utilities. Now this guy is 35 years old. He works maybe two weeks out of the year so they can claim an income tax. And come income tax time, they claim all four kids (She refuses to let her mom claim the two that she is raising), and get a couple of thousand back. Her words are she deserves claim them.
When they get the SSDI check, the first thing they buy is a couple of cases of beer and a couple of cartons of cigarettes. They don't buy new clothes, get free food, his mother is paying for practically all of his bills, but hey, they have the money to buy cigarettes and beer. What a life.
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It rewards the worker?
Yeah, with free money from nanny government, duh!
:-)
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I would like to see EIC end.
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I would like to see EIC end.
I would, too. And at one time I was eligible. It was almost difficult to not get it, but I didn't take it by not claiming all my dependents. The few I told thought I was nuts, and I got a letter from the IRS saying I'd made a mistake, but I ignored it when I saw what it was.
Now I pay what seems a lot, and resent those who take from me.
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I always claim '0' on my taxes. And always end up paying in more than I should. I find it is better to over-pay than to under-pay...
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I claim zero on my taxes and still have to send them money every year.
The rent is too damn high.
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I claim zero on my taxes and still have to send them money every year.
The rent is too damn high.
(http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OB-KM912_mcmill_G_20101019115123.jpg)
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(http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OB-KM912_mcmill_G_20101019115123.jpg)
What is that? A Ballchinian?
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Next tax season do an experiment, ask your friends and coworkers how much they paid in taxes, and count how many say, "Nothing, I got a refund", and how many will say, "I paid in x and got back y". Bet you more will say they paid nothing.
I wish I knew the secret. Being retired, I wind up paying taxes on 85% of my social security. That really pisses me off.
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What is that? A Ballchinian?
I think you're right.
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"Forced savings plan" right, it forces someone else to save the money and then steals it to give it to the EITC recipient.
Tax REFUNDS are often treated like a forced savings plan by people a little farther up the scale, who leave their tax withholding unnecessarily large so they will never end up owing money and can count on a bump of some size when they do file, money managers advise against it but it's a personal preference.
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(http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OB-KM912_mcmill_G_20101019115123.jpg)
Yup--his name escapes me at the moment, but he ran for mayor of NYC, IIRC, and his party was named "'The Rent Is Too Damned High' Party."
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Yup--his name escapes me at the moment, but he ran for mayor of NYC, IIRC, and his party was named "'The Rent Is Too Damned High' Party."
Yep .....
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4o-TeMHys0&feature=related[/youtube]
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I always claim '0' on my taxes. And always end up paying in more than I should. I find it is better to over-pay than to under-pay...
I do that too because I never know when my mutual funds are going to put out a large distribution. Haven't had to worry about that the last couple of years. :argh:
One thing that does piss me off is you used to be able to not pay a damn thing throughout the year and pay at the end of the year. Save your withholding and get some interest. They cut that out .. can't remember when, been a fairly long time... and now if you underpay by some amount they penalize you. They got me on that back when they first started it.
Personally I think that tax day should be followed the next day by election day.
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I do that too because I never know when my mutual funds are going to put out a large distribution. Haven't had to worry about that the last couple of years. :argh:
One thing that does piss me off is you used to be able to not pay a damn thing throughout the year and pay at the end of the year. Save your withholding and get some interest. They cut that out .. can't remember when, been a fairly long time... and now if you underpay by some amount they penalize you. They got me on that back when they first started it.
Personally I think that tax day should be followed the next day by election day.
Yeah, I started doing it when I started my day trading gig. I got slapped one year with having to pay in, since then, I don't claim anyone and write my computer and internet off as tax deductions. I haven't had to pay in since.
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Day trading is a waltz through a minefield.
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Day trading is a waltz through a minefield.
Is that not the truth. Stocks and money markets used to be almost a sure thing prior to 2008. Now it is a crap shoot.
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Is that not the truth. Stocks and money markets used to be almost a sure thing prior to 2008. Now it is a crap shoot.
Depends on whether you are looking at the long time frame or the short time frame. I remember one of my mutual funds, that had a NAV at around 25-30 per share, dropping to 12 per share back in like 2008 or whenever the market tanked. Well I was in it for the long haul, buy shares every month, so I ended up with some shares over that year. Now it is back up in the 25-30 range. Lowered my dollar average cost, so I made some money if I sold today. I think the key here is to buy shares on a regular basis long term and be diversified.
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Day trading is a waltz through a minefield.
Is that not the truth. Stocks and money markets used to be almost a sure thing prior to 2008. Now it is a crap shoot.
A lot of it is based on what you get into. I usually do short term bonds, options (to hedge) and simple stocks. And yes, diversifying is the way to go. Putting all your eggs in one basket will not work for you. I have had cases where I lost money in one stock but gained in another, so the spread was pretty good; actually to a point where I broke even or made a profit. I am not going to lie and say that I always make a profit. I do lose some money. But, I minimize the risk of loss by being aggressive with the stop loss strageties I use.
One of these days I will make a simple tutorial of what I do, as well some other things I am into (If people are interested), and how I do it. I have methods of minimizing my losses, and how to better your chances of gaining, or just breaking even. I been doing this for 15 years, and have loved every minute of it.
Right now, I am trying to come up with the funds to start a small private equity firm. I been talking to banks for loans, and investors in my area to see what they think. I am hoping to get the start up money here within the next year.
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A lot of it is based on what you get into. I usually do short term bonds, options (to hedge) and simple stocks. And yes, diversifying is the way to go. Putting all your eggs in one basket will not work for you. I have had cases where I lost money in one stock but gained in another, so the spread was pretty good; actually to a point where I broke even or made a profit. I am not going to lie and say that I always make a profit. I do lose some money. But, I minimize the risk of loss by being aggressive with the stop loss strageties I use.
One of these days I will make a simple tutorial of what I do, as well some other things I am into (If people are interested), and how I do it. I have methods of minimizing my losses, and how to better your chances of gaining, or just breaking even. I been doing this for 15 years, and have loved every minute of it.
Right now, I am trying to come up with the funds to start a small private equity firm. I been talking to banks for loans, and investors in my area to see what they think. I am hoping to get the start up money here within the next year.
Well hell KR... I ain't that damn smart to do all that. I am interested in what you do though. Pa Perky always said to find what you good at and like, then do it and either be the best at it or work harder than everyone else.
I did that. Make good pay.
Then he said whatever you ain't good at, find someone who is and make sure their the best, and learn from them. Even if they ain't the best, no such thing as too much info/knowledge.
Dad played the market all the time. Commodities, stocks, bonds, and a whole bunch of other shit I don't know about. He was really succesful in agri commodities cause he knew farming. Me? I'm too damn chicken to do that shit. That money comes too damn hard for me to take less than calculated risk chances on it.
Good luck on your venture.
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The trader's market consists of smart money, and fools money, and almost infinite gradations in between. No matter how smart you are, or think you are, there are people smarter or more corrupt than you, that can take your money out of your account and into theirs. Maybe not all at once, but inexorably with few exceptions the flow is in their favor. When I think of corrupt, I think of the former lib/dem/socialist Governor New Jersey of John Corzine. He "lost" 5 billion of his investor's money. Not only will he get off scott free, he will not be fined, and be able to keep all of the compensation he was unfit, and totally unqualified to retain.
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This mind-game of having income taxes deducted from the paycheck was deliberately invented by someone in the Roosevelt administration during the second world war.
Up until that time, people just did their income tax returns and pay the full tax, which was then due on March 15.
It wasn't that big of a deal, because income taxes at the time were pretty small.
But some New Deal genius figured that by having the income taxes deducted from paychecks little by little over the course of a year, there would be less public resistance if taxes went up.
Well, that's exactly what happened. And the Democrats since 1942 have been taking advantage of it.
I think it's time we went back to the old way, no deductions over the year, everyone paying the total sum in March.
This would make people more aware of how much is stolen from them.
It's been my argument for years that the fastest, easiest way to bring reform to this government is to eliminate withholding. Get your full paycheck, and a list of how much you need to send to the fed and state treasuries.
Make the "worker" write the check for his own damned taxes!
Unfortunately, there aren't enough (if any) legislators with the balls to do it.
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It's been my argument for years that the fastest, easiest way to bring reform to this government is to eliminate withholding. Get your full paycheck, and a list of how much you need to send to the fed and state treasuries.
Make the "worker" write the check for his own damned taxes!
Unfortunately, there aren't enough (if any) legislators with the balls to do it.
Nor enough courts to prosecute two-thirds of the population.
In tax threads, it's always amazing how not one DUmpmonkey knows the difference between deductions, exemptions, credits, returns, refunds, withholding, and tax paid. They use all those terms pretty much interchangeably.
Credits and deductions, which are legitimate means to legislate for the best interests of the country, are synonymous in DUmpspeak with "loopholes".