The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: franksolich on May 22, 2008, 09:03:58 AM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=221x74840
Oh my.
Skinner ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Tue May-20-08 09:53 PM
Original message
I understand that we've had a few issues come up here in the GLBT forum. A couple things...
First things first: I think Lithos has been treated unfairly here. What everyone needs to keep in mind is that the moderators don't make the rules. They just enforce them. It is not Lithos's fault that the DU rules are imperfect, and it is not his fault that this site has grown so big that lightning fast, completely consistent rule enforcement is basically impossible.
When he locked the "Best of DU" stuff, he was doing exactly what a DU moderator is supposed to do. I assure you that he probably would have preferred to simply look the other way and not get involved. But it is not the moderators' job to look the other way, particularly when they receive alerts about posts that violate the DU rules.
It is their job to enforce the rules, and it's an extremely difficult and thankless job. That's why we pay them the big bucks. In fact, I think Lithos deserves credit for the fact that he made an effort to publicly explain to everyone why he did what he did.
So lay off Lithos, and lay off the moderators. If you want to complain about someone, complain about me. You can post whatever you like about me in this thread and I will instruct the moderators not to delete it. Believe me, no matter what you can dish out, I am sure I've been called worse.
Some people have expressed confusion about what they are permitted to post or not post in the "Best of DU" threads. The short answer is: Read the rules. Of course, nobody is going to do that because you all know the rules already.
So what you really want to know is under what circumstances you are permitted to break the rules. And the short answer to that is: There are none. A slightly longer and more nuanced answer is: There are none, but if we aren't aware of your rule-breaking then we won't delete it. Which is why we so frequently see undeleted posts on DU that violate the rules.
If you actually don't know what is permitted and what is not, here's the basic idea: You can post links to other posts on DU, and you can even go so far as to discuss the content of those posts. But once you start posting personal attacks against other members of this website, then you have violated the rules and you your post might get deleted (provided that it comes to the attention of the moderators).
On a related note, a number of people have claimed that you are not permitted to point out and/or fight against things you consider bigoted on DU. This is simply wrong. One of the core principles of this website is -- and has always been -- that our members should be free to tell other people when they are wrong. But you can't personally attack other people.
If you still don't get it, here's an example. Basically, you need to understand the difference between "Allow me to explain why you are wrong" and "You are a freaking moron". As a bonus, I think you will find that the former approach is more likely to get your point across -- and maybe even change someone's mind -- than the latter.
I know everyone is feeling pretty worn out and frustrated on DU these days. I know I am. By now, I think everyone has probably had the opportunity to say their piece. Hopefully we can move on to other things.
It's an enormously big bonfire, and some primitives are ungay--er, unhappy, with my fellow alum.
94114_San_Francisco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Tue May-20-08 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
5. Skinner, LGBT people are telling you there's a problem at DU.
I'm surprised you started your message defending DU and the mods while offering little or no empathy to the LGBT community members here. I can't speak for others but I'm trying to create a safer and more supportive environment at DU. I was hoping you would ally with me to address homophobia but after reading your post, it seems you're more interested in the rules (and defending the mods). I doubt you'll give our feedback the serious attention it deserves.
My complaint is that those locked threads are emblematic of a larger issue at DU. In your rules there seems to be no room for context. Regarding the locked threads, have you or the mods asked yourselves:
"What's the real problem?"
"In our role as mods and administrators, is it possible we're not seeing the big picture?"
"Do the DU members who are posting in the "Best of..." threads have a legitimate argument?"
"What do I need to do to understand this? Could I hold a belief system that is uninformed? entitled? privileged?"
As a former mod, I'm familiar with the mod forum and how it works. I made an agreement with you that I wouldn't talk about that responsibility publicly. But as a former mod, I will tell you that the moderation on LGBT bigotry is seriously flawed. There are other gay former mods who may be bold enough to tell you that's their experience, too.
I'll have more to say about this later. Right now, I'm angry. So, while I'm grateful you're here in the LGBT forum -- you haven't started off on the right foot, if you ask me. Your message is insulting and patronizing. The tone is condescending; bordering on mockery.
You close with the suggestion that it's time to move on. I couldn't disagree more. It's time for you and the mods to understand the LGBT experience here at DU. Until you're ready to do more than admonish me and insult my intelligence, I'm not sure we'll have much more to say to each other.
I don't think Skins needs to "understand" anything.
I think my fellow alum should tell the unhappy primitives to stuff it, or something like that.
ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed May-21-08 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #5
20. It's been obvious for a very long time that there's a very serious problem with the way bigotry often does not get moderated here at DU.
Either moderators don't give a damn, or else the system doesn't let them give a damn effectively. Either problem ends up with the same outcome.
Edit to add: Personally I think it's some of both. The difference in how racism and homophobia are handled is startling. Homophobia is much more blatantly tolerated. So at least some of the problem is the moderators themselves, not the system. Or maybe it comes from higher up.
I wonder if our Straight Male Admins are able to understand issues of sexism and heterosexism, or care.
Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed May-21-08 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #7
29. Thank you for this
I cannot pretend to know how your community feels when I read some of the crap that gets posted...I know how it makes me feel.
Why do I feel that DU...along with the party...has moved to the squishy center and for some reason, "underground" doesn't apply anymore? There was a rapid influx of moderates to this place...many are republicans who are ashamed of their party so they came here trying to mold this into something they could "tolerate". However, many of them don't play nicely in the sandbox and are very intolerant of sexist and GBLT issues...and NEITHER are being moderated as they should...even after multiple alerts.
With that being said...a LONG time member who is respected by many (myself included...until that day) flat out called me a racist. Others have implied the same because I do not support obama. I have alerted on these posts until I am blue in the face...and they stand.In fact, many times, the pissed off response that I make is deleted...however, the offensive shit that caused it stays.
It pisses me off to no end that this is allowed, but I wanted to support that statement that you made.
It just goes on and on, the bonfire raging out of control.
undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed May-21-08 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. skinner
there are some people here who are BULLIES.They are homophobic and sexist, poor bashing, fat phobic... They insult dehumanize and demean people and get away with it.
And until the mods GET IT that certain bullies like being rude,and that they do it BECAUSE they can get away with it, because the mods act as if they DO sympathize with the sexism,homophobia,and other socially tolerated forms of bigotry the assholes who cannot keep their insulting bigoted mouths shut say. The mods who tolerate intolerable shit will permit shitty asshole people to keep on making this forum a shitty place to be.
And some of us are saying enough of this. Are the mods honest enough to consider they are blinded by their own shit to even see the bigoted comments as the shit they are?
damkira (1000+ posts) Wed May-21-08 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
111. Thank you, Skinner.
A couple of loud-mouth malcontents don't represent the gay community. Some people are going to be upset no matter what you do... you shouldn't let anyone intimidate you.
You're doing a great job.
ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Thu May-22-08 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #111
113. "couple of loud-mouth malcontents"
That's a wide brush you're swinging, and you're painting a lot more people here than I think you realize. Be very careful how may people you insult in your rush to suck-up.
Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Thu May-22-08 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #111
126. Another "non-contributor" speaks.
Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Thu May-22-08 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
127. The time is FAR past for the board to stand up for EQUALITY.
You and the rest of the "owners" need to post and support your absolute and unqualified support for the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. All Citizens are equal under the law, and support it here without exception.
That includes the brickbats thrown against fellow Democrats, allowed to skyrocket without action. Look on the front page for an example.
Note that you see something attached to the handles of the posters on this thread: Gold Stars. This does not need to be explained.
The almost total inaction of the MODS recently has made this place a haven for GLBT Bashing, Clinton hating, and the sort of pile-on famous for the modus of "the site which shall not be named."
Your board is now making its case in the marketplace of public opinion. Google concepts from some of the nastier threads if you doubt me; and the impression is bad.
Oh my.
Like I said, it's a bonfire raging out of control.
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Uh, for the record, this was the first time franksolich has ever ventured into the gay bar on Skins's island.
I was wondering what the primitives were saying about the president of Gambia, in western Africa, wanting to shoot all gays. I was looking around for that, and found this. I never did find out what the primitives think about the president of Gambia.
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I've never been to a "Bitch Slapping Contest" before......an "Ass Kicking Contest" yes, but not a "Bitch Slapping Contest".
Float like a butterfly, sting like a............
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again, they don't want EQUAL (ie, following the same rules everyone else does)...they want SPECIAL...to be treated better/more equal than others
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed May-21-08 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. skinner
there are some people here who are BULLIES.They are homophobic and sexist, poor bashing, fat phobic... They insult dehumanize and demean people and get away with it.
And until the mods GET IT that certain bullies like being rude,and that they do it BECAUSE they can get away with it, because the mods act as if they DO sympathize with the sexism,homophobia,and other socially tolerated forms of bigotry the assholes who cannot keep their insulting bigoted mouths shut say. The mods who tolerate intolerable shit will permit shitty asshole people to keep on making this forum a shitty place to be.
And some of us are saying enough of this. Are the mods honest enough to consider they are blinded by their own shit to even see the bigoted comments as the shit they are?
:bawl:
:sosad:
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What I think is really funny is that the DUmmies really seem to think they have a say in anything that goes on on DU. Skinner's site, Skinner's rules, skinner's banhammer falling on their ghey little heads.
"Why, oh Why, don't you understand us Masta Skinneh!?"
"STFU and donate money, bitch!"
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Liberals are over-emotional anyway. Add to that the raging GLBT hormones and there's no way to make them happy.
.
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In the idyllic mind's eye of a liberal DUmmie, DU is suppose to be exempt from human nature, or at least be dishonest about your true feelings. A phony insincere "community" all showing the same phony insincere face to their public is much more important than actual reality in the "reality based" bastion of "truth & light" we all know as The DUmp.
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The Constitution guarantees you free speech.
The Constitution does not guarantee that anyone will listen to or agree with anything you have to say.
Liberals have invented PC "Hate Speech" to silence anyone with opposing viewpoints.
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I've never been to a "Bitch Slapping Contest" before......an "Ass Kicking Contest" yes, but not a "Bitch Slapping Contest".
Float like a butterfly, sting like a............
I believe that the DUmmie version is "Float like a butterfly, sting like a butterfly".
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They'll blame Operation Chaos for this.
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Funny path that took, the biggest 'Bullies' I've seen in action over there are some of the lesbians and a few of the femboys.
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If there only was a way to harness the energy the DUmmies spend on phony outrage and victimization, we'd achieve energy independence instantly.
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So the 14th amendment was actually written on Hello Kitty paper in purple ink with a little glitter thrown on? Whoda thunk!!!
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:mental: :bawl: :catfight:
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I've never been to a "Bitch Slapping Contest" before......an "Ass Kicking Contest" yes, but not a "Bitch Slapping Contest".
Float like a butterfly, sting like a............
queen
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Man, the faggots, queers and lesbos sure have thin skins over there.
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I've never been to a "Bitch Slapping Contest" before......an "Ass Kicking Contest" yes, but not a "Bitch Slapping Contest".
Float like a butterfly, sting like a............
queen
...she
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For some reason this keeps running through my head:
You'd rather have wine than gin
Only the finest by your skin
Always running after Time - catching
You're fancy with rhyme
Shining on the front page again
Hot on the presses today - little queen
Making your passion play - little queen
Nobody knows your melancholy mind -
Little queen
Away from the sellers, the papers said
Your crown was tight and heavy on your head
Still you danced and you sang - all night
The telephone rang
Music kept on playing from your pen.
Hot on the presses today - little queen
Making your passion play - little queen
Nobody knows your melancholy mind -
Little queen
Raining Raining- he knows your Soul ain't free
Raining Raining- he feels you little queen
Slipping away with your gypsy band
Hot on your music and playing a winning hand
He was standing in the line, thinking how you
Moved his mind
Feeling like he held you in his hand
Cindie
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For some reason this keeps running through my head:
You'd rather have wine than gin
Only the finest by your skin
Always running after Time - catching
You're fancy with rhyme
Shining on the front page again
Hot on the presses today - little queen
Making your passion play - little queen
Nobody knows your melancholy mind -
Little queen
Away from the sellers, the papers said
Your crown was tight and heavy on your head
Still you danced and you sang - all night
The telephone rang
Music kept on playing from your pen.
Hot on the presses today - little queen
Making your passion play - little queen
Nobody knows your melancholy mind -
Little queen
Raining Raining- he knows your Soul ain't free
Raining Raining- he feels you little queen
Slipping away with your gypsy band
Hot on your music and playing a winning hand
He was standing in the line, thinking how you
Moved his mind
Feeling like he held you in his hand
Cindie
titS BEEN WRITING A NEW SONG
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After reading that thread and the sub thread I have come to one conclusion....Gay people are a gigantic pain in the ass :-) What would be funny is if Skinner just blew a gasket one day and just deleted the entire GBLT forum :rotf: The screams from the queens would be heard all over the internet. :lmao:
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You can post whatever you like about me in this thread and I will instruct the moderators not to delete it.
Well, that's an open invitation to register some mole accounts if I ever heard one.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed May-21-08 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. skinner
there are some people here who are BULLIES.They are homophobic and sexist, poor bashing, fat phobic... They insult dehumanize and demean people and get away with it.
And until the mods GET IT that certain bullies like being rude,and that they do it BECAUSE they can get away with it, because the mods act as if they DO sympathize with the sexism,homophobia,and other socially tolerated forms of bigotry the assholes who cannot keep their insulting bigoted mouths shut say. The mods who tolerate intolerable shit will permit shitty ******* people to keep on making this forum a shitty place to be.
And some of us are saying enough of this. Are the mods honest enough to consider they are blinded by their own shit to even see the bigoted comments as the shit they are?
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f276/irohde/Whambulance.jpg)
What a bunch of friggin drama queens... :whatever:
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You and the rest of the "owners" need to post and support your absolute and unqualified support for the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. All Citizens are equal under the law, and support it here without exception.
Except for those who dare argue with your far left politics.
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Why do I feel that DU...along with the party...has moved to the squishy center and for some reason, "underground" doesn't apply anymore? There was a rapid influx of moderates to this place...many are republicans who are ashamed of their party so they came here trying to mold this into something they could "tolerate". However, many of them don't play nicely in the sandbox and are very intolerant of sexist and GBLT issues...and NEITHER are being moderated as they should...even after multiple alerts.
Of course the GBLT community wants this...they want a "neutral" forum....they don't want their sick ways contested....but they want those same ways accepted....these same GBLT's are the same folks that want to us accept things as "cross dressing school teachers" and homos getting married.......they seek a safe playing field, where their sick and perverse lifestyles will never be questioned again, and in fact, will be accepted as normal....and the first to suffer will be the children of this great nation of ours.