The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: franksolich on May 21, 2008, 09:38:43 AM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=268x1564
Oh my.
I didn't know Skins's island has a forum for small town and rural folk--and the best thing is, there appears to be action in it, as compared with the automotive forum and the deaf-and-hard-of-hearing forum, where one gets attacked by killer cobwebs.
efhmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Thu May-15-08 11:33 AM
Original message
Where can I find a good source of organic fertilizer for feed crops? I lease out the ranch and allow no nonorganic materials. The cow/calf operator wants a source of organic fertilizer for the fields. Any ideas?
rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Thu May-15-08 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
1. The cow/calf operator wants to know this?
Isn't cow manure organic fertilizer?
efhmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Thu May-15-08 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Manure that has not been ripened/composted will burn up tender vegetation, plus cattle will eat/trample it. The sudan is harvested in the fall for winter feed. The lessee has been using these fields for a while and does allow the cattle in after cutting. A legume planted in the fall might at least help the nitrogen levels. However, I told him I would research this and have called the local feed store and looked on line without much feedback. So I came here where I can count on getting good info.
Better information about the matter at the links on franksolich's "signature" here.
galledgoblin (392 posts) Fri May-16-08 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #2
19. what about other manures?
or do they all have the same issues?
izquierdista (1000+ posts) Thu May-15-08 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
4. Local sewage treatment plant?
Is there a sewage treatment plant nearby that you could visit? Maybe their dewatered sludge is acceptable for your use? Depending on its chemical analysis, that might be possible.
efhmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Thu May-15-08 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Good thought but it would involve a lot of transporting and we are not close to any large areas. Also I have concerns about lead or other heavy metals levels and unless we test it ourselves, we would not have this information. I was hoping for a product that we could just order from the feed store. I know that some people use ground cotton seed, but it is gummy and hard to spread and also unknown often as to source.
wildgarden (1 posts) Thu May-15-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. depends on your location
We use a combination of leguminous cover crops and order truckloads of composted manure from a local organic chicken ranch. Maybe your farmer can begin a program of composting his own cattle manure as a long term solution?
efhmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Thu May-15-08 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. This "farmer" is a rancher and his cattle are spread out over 7k acres so I do not think that is going to happen. Although I like the self sustained idea and wish we could apply it.
kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Thu May-15-08 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Sewage sludge is not allowed on organic crops per federal rules.
Due to the heavy metal contaminants usually found in it. Otherwise it would be a good thing (after composting).
The best thing to do with the pasture is use it for intensive rotational grazing, rather than cutting hay from it. The stock directly fertilizes it, which is energy-efficient and makes the most common sense.
efhmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Thu May-15-08 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. The problem here is that the ranch is separted into crop land and range land. Also, I am slowly working with this man to make changes. I was delighted that he wanted me to research organic fertilizer at all. He has been using the fields to grow hay crops, cutting and baling it for winter feed, allowing the cattle on it after cutting and then leaving it until late March or so and plowing under and reseeding. We have about 450 acres of cropland which is never all planted. I planted native grasses on part at a tremendous cost. We had a drought and got no production.
kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Thu May-15-08 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Well, rock phosphate is a good P source. For nitrogen you'll need some sort of composted organic matter. For K, I think greensand?
But seriously, if the crops on it are going to feed livestock, it makes a lot more sense economically and environmentally to just graze the cattle and let THEM do the fertilizing.
efhmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Thu May-15-08 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. What fertilizing that has been done has been the cattle after cutting.
kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Thu May-15-08 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I see you're in TX, not sure where, or what your soils are like there, or moisture levels.........in areas with sour (acidic) soils I know they try to correct it by spreading lime, but if you're typical southwest, it's dry and alkaline and that won't work.
efhmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Thu May-15-08 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. It is rocky and the rain fall is about 24 inches per year.
It is very alkaline and we do not have deep soils.
kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Thu May-15-08 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Alfalfa, my friend. Or better yet a diverse mixed pasture blend.
Alfalfa is from the Middle East, and puts down really long tap roots to get at any moisture, and that's how it brings nutrients up from the depths. But you probably already knew that, lol.
Ahhh, sweet memories of childhood alongside the Platte River in Nebraska.
Most people don't, but franksolich loves the redolency of alfalfa.
newfie11 (237 posts) Fri May-16-08 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. I am curious what type of hay he is growing
I have never heard of plowing under a 1 year old hay field. Once establish most people get at least several years of cuttings if not more.
drthais (763 posts) Thu May-15-08 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. pelletized chicken manure thats what we use.
you can purchase it by the ton and haul it yourself
look for a source
you don't say where in the country you are
we're in Louisiana and go to Mississipi for it...
matter of fact...going Monday!
After which the kestrel primitive quotes information about rotational grazing; not posted here, because too technical for most.
efhmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Thu May-15-08 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I am very familiar with this method and we do do rotational grazing but not of this intense type. I would have to completely change a lovely Texas 4th generation rancher to achieve this, do lots of fencing I don't have the money for and probably lose a great lessee. Baby steps. It has taken about 6 years to get to this point.
kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Thu May-15-08 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Good. I bet he'll eventually come around. It will simply get too expensive to farm any other way......
newfie11 (237 posts) Fri May-16-08 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #12
21. Have you tried using high tensile fencing. It is pretty cheap
We run cattle in corn fields around here with just one strand of hot wire.
hippywife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sat May-17-08 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. I was going to suggest Salatin's methods, too. I don't have cattle or acreage like that but I've read how he manages his place and it's really a thing of beauty!
Maybe he will let you do it on a portion of the land with just a portion of the cattle. Then when he sees the results...you'll have him hooked!
galledgoblin (392 posts) Tue May-20-08 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
23. related discussion in LBN- "The Hot New Trend: Manure"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3316192
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Well, if anyone knows how to spread shit, it ought to be the DUmmies.... :-)
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Well, if anyone knows how to spread shit, it ought to be the DUmmies.... :-)
Damn, Johnny, I'll have you know I figured you would be the first one to see this bonfire; in fact, I selected it in particular to catch your eye.
Now, if the lurking primitives would just click on the links on franksolich's "signature," they'd learn about the wonders of wholly-natural antique vintage fertilizer.
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Just use Milorganite and be done with it.
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So I came here where I can count on getting good info.
I have to agree here - the DUmp is the prime place for gathering information on manure.
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It really sounds like this guy wants an answer about what he can do that involves picking up not more than one pick-up load of 50# bags from his local feedstore to treat 7,000 acres. The only thing that can possibly work like that is marijuana seeds, and rifle cartridges to shoot the hippies when they come to harvest it, even if they are kind of hard to plow under.
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Oh my.
This resurrected because a lurking primitive was reading it.
I dunno why, though.
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If this guy has 7000 acres, why is he asking a question like this? (Doesn't he know?) And if he *doesn't* know, that means he is in waaaay over his head. Somebody either needs to dispatch a video crew (not Nadin :rofl: ) or sell tickets.