The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Politics => Topic started by: BigTex on July 16, 2012, 02:25:52 PM
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Wheres Grover Norquist when you need him?
A price break for online shoppers may be ending soon, with growing support for sales taxes on purchases made on the internet. This means many online shoppers would pay at least 5 percent more than they do today. Republicans in Congress have joined Democrats to support a bill that would give states authority to force Amazon, eBay, and other online companies to collect sales taxes. Now, says The Wall Street Journal, Republican governors “eager for new revenue to ease budget strains, are dropping their longtime opposition to imposing sales taxes on online purchases.†The Journal calls it “a significant political shift†that could lead to a change in federal law. Brick-and-mortar retailers have long argued that they face an unfair price disadvantage. But the change amounts to a tax hike for many consumers.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2012/07/get-ready-to-pay-online-sales-tax/
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This has already happened in Illinois. Amazon pulled all of its warehouses out of Illinois and went to other states.
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Not a federal issue. Congress needs to stay out of it.
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Not a federal issue. Congress needs to stay out of it.
What? I know we all dont like the super expansion of commerce clause that has happened in modern times, but internet commerce seems to be exactly what the commerce clause was intended for.
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Politicians usually can't tell the difference between choking the gold egg laying goose, and killing it.
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This has already happened in Illinois. Amazon pulled all of its warehouses out of Illinois and went to other states.
I'm waiting for Illinois to put road blocks up to check people for cigarettes bought in neighboring states.
If they pass a law letting states impose the taxes, then how long before the feds want a cut?
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What? I know we all dont like the super expansion of commerce clause that has happened in modern times, but internet commerce seems to be exactly what the commerce clause was intended for.
IMO I don't think it was originally intended to cover the collection of State sales taxes, but I may be in error.
The “dormant†Commerce Clause refers to the prohibition, implied in the Commerce Clause, against states passing legislation that discriminates against or excessively burdens interstate commerce.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/commerce_clause
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If a state charges sales tax, then collect them on the innernet sales, if not, don't.
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IMO I don't think it was originally intended to cover the collection of State sales taxes, but I may be in error.
Its not about the states collecting sales tax, its whether one state can collect sales tax from business in another state. Interstate commerce disputes like that are what the commerce clause was intended for.
Like for instance a person physically in Oklahoma uses a cell phone to buy an item that is shipped/billed to a Texas address from a website based in California from a company based in Ohio. Which state gets the tax, or should there even be allowed have a sales tax on it? IMO that is the type of situation the commerce clause allows the federal govt to solve.
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If a state charges sales tax, then collect them on the innernet sales, if not, don't.
The 64 thousand dollar question is....
Which state gets to keep the tax?
The point of sale or the point of delivery?
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The 64 thousand dollar question is....
Which state gets to keep the tax?
The point of sale or the point of delivery?
The state wherein resides the purchaser. Would you want some blue state collecting sales tax off of the other 49?
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The 64 thousand dollar question is....
Which state gets to keep the tax?
The point of sale or the point of delivery?
Exactly why I think it is a federal issue. If the federal govt couldnt get involved then both states could change the sales tax and customer would pay double.
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BTW...
Here is the text of the bill in question.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/s1832/text
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Here is an interesting article on the issue:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-57321515-281/senate-bill-reignites-internet-sales-tax-debate/
On the other hand, a 1992 Supreme Court ruling says that, in general, retailers currently can't be forced to collect sales tax on out-of-state shipments unless they have offices in those states. And with over 7,500 taxing jurisdictions, each with its own rules and ability to conduct audits, compliance with each is not a trivial task.
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The state wherein resides the purchaser. Would you want some blue state collecting sales tax off of the other 49?
I don't view this as a blue state/red state issue at all.
As for myself, I don't make any internet purchases with an eye on avoiding a state sales tax. When I make an internet purchase it is typically for items that I can't find locally or because the purchase price is significantly lower than what I would pay for a local purchase.
I don't think that this new legislation, if passed, would cause me to change my online purchasing to any major extent.
What I do know is that this legislation will result in another large bureaucracy that will ultimately cost more than it is worth.
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I don't view this as a blue state/red state issue at all.
As for myself, I don't make any internet purchases with an eye on avoiding a state sales tax. When I make an internet purchase it is typically for items that I can't find locally or because the purchase price is significantly lower than what I would pay for a local purchase.
I don't think that this new legislation, if passed, would cause me to change my online purchasing to any major extent.
What I do know is that this legislation will result in another large bureaucracy that will ultimately cost more than it is worth.
You would voluntarily give your money to your state govt if you can easily avoid it? I dont specifically try to avoid sales tax but saving over 8% on my large purchases always helps (for small purchases I only shop online if its not available locally). Its also not like I'm talking that 8% and burying it in the back yard, I'm spending it on other purchases. For big items I always do research online so I usually end up buying there also, you usually get a cheaper price cutting out the middle man anyways on top of cutting out the sales tax.
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You would voluntarily give your money to your state govt if you can easily avoid it? I dont specifically try to avoid sales tax but saving over 8% on my large purchases always helps (for small purchases I only shop online if its not available locally). Its also not like I'm talking that 8% and burying it in the back yard, I'm spending it on other purchases. For big items I always do research online so I usually end up buying there also, you usually get a cheaper price cutting out the middle man anyways on top of cutting out the sales tax.
I never said that. I merely stated that I don't make online purchases with an eye toward avoiding a state sales tax. If I can easily avoid paying a tax, I do so. But that is not my primary reason when making online purchases.
I don't buy a lot of big ticket items online to begin with but when I do, it is with an eye on cost compared to what I can get locally. The state sales tax never enters into my decision. But if this legislation passes, it will certainly become part of my decision process.
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I can see why governors, regardless of party, would be for it, whether Congress is on board for it may be another story. The excerpt kind of mixes the two, trumpeting a change in Congress but then actually talking about governors. Not gonna make or break me, but it would change the economic calculus of when it's worth buying on line to have tax on top of price and shipping, vs. price plus just tax for local purchase.
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Taxing AlGore's (manBearPig's) invention will destroy it. At least the commercial side of it.
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Or you could just move to a state that doesn't have a sales tax.
Or an income tax.
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Or you could just move to a state that doesn't have a sales tax.
Or an income tax.
There arent any with no tax. NH and AK have almost none but all have some amount
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There arent any states with both no income and sales tax
Uh, yoo-hoo!! Right heah!
Well, broad-based sales tax, anyway. We do have a 9 percent "room and meals" tax, but if you don't go out to eat much, so much the better.
Granted, our property taxes and vehicle registrations are pretty steep, but I can deal with that. Actually my state income tax burden here is less than half of what I was paying when I lived in CA, meaning my paycheck (which remained virtually unchanged when I moved here in 2006) actually went FARTHER, considering that and the lower cost of housing/insurance.
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There arent any with no tax. NH and AK have almost none but all have some amount
Not true. NH has neither sales nor income tax.
http://www.kiplinger.com/tools/retiree_map/index.html?map=2#anchor
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Not true. NH has neither sales nor income tax.
http://www.kiplinger.com/tools/retiree_map/index.html?map=2#anchor
They pay a sales tax on prepared food and an income tax on interest and dividends
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They pay a sales tax on prepared food and an income tax on interest and dividends
Yeah, I saw Sparky's post.
The link I posted does not quote that information, however. But I'll yield to the "special" sales and income taxes inasmuch as not everybody eats out and not everybody has investments that pay interest and dividends.
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They pay a sales tax on prepared food and an income tax on interest and dividends
I mentioned the "room and meals" tax. There are a lot of "screw your neighbor" taxes in all New England states which get tourists to pony up a significant amount of money to their respective state coffers.
Then again, what's the hotel tax on a place in Dallas/Houston/Austin these days?
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I mentioned the "room and meals" tax. There are a lot of "screw your neighbor" taxes in all New England states which get tourists to pony up a significant amount of money to their respective state coffers.
Then again, what's the hotel tax on a place in Dallas/Houston/Austin these days?
Im not sure what prepared food means in NH but in TX it also applies to grocery items like frozen dinners and the pre-made walmart subs. As for hotel tax I think the max is 18% but most of it can be easily avoided if you dont have to stay right downtown.
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Im not sure what prepared food means in NH but in TX it also applies to grocery items like frozen dinners and the pre-made walmart subs. As for hotel tax I think the max is 18% but most of it can be easily avoided if you dont have to stay right downtown.
The only thing that it would apply to in a grocery store is actual prepared food, such as stuff actually cooked/served in the store.
For example, I buy a lobster at Market Basket for $4.99/lb. I get a nice one at 3 lbs (the ones you normally see in TX are about 1 1/2 lbs if you're lucky.) So rather than steam it myself, I pay the room and meals tax of $1.35 for them to steam it for me. Now personally, unless I'm looking to cook them on the stove/grill, I'd rather fork over the small amount to have them do it.
Dinner in a restaurant is also taxed at 9 percent. While higher than MA (6.25%, IIRC) or Maine (5%), I don't pay sales tax on ANYTHING else I buy--food, clothing, appliances, a new vehicle, nothing. There is of course tax on alcohol, tobacco, and fuel, but they're far lower than neighboring states. I figured I saved myself $3000 when I bought my last vehicle being a NH versus a Maine resident, because not only would I have gotten nailed with ME sales tax, they would have hit me up for an additional 5 percent of sales value when I went to register the vehicle in ME (and believe me, the cops there are friggin Nazis when it comes to checking plates parked at a residence more than a few days.) Income taxes in Maine are absolutely ridiculous, with marginal rate of 8.5 percent of singles making more than $19,950 or married/joint making more than $39,900/year.) MA is only slightly better with a 5.3 percent flat tax based on federal AGI.
But as far as hotels go, even in the 'burbs you're going to pay more than 9 percent a night in Texas, considering the state gets 6 percent, the county (depending gets 2-3 percent, the town gets another 3-4 percent, and like you said, "special" taxes like Houston's sports facility taxes can easily push it to 20 percent.)
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I mentioned the "room and meals" tax. There are a lot of "screw your neighbor" taxes in all New England states which get tourists to pony up a significant amount of money to their respective state coffers.
Then again, what's the hotel tax on a place in Dallas/Houston/Austin these days?
Tourists, with few exceptions are not neighbors. I would include illegal aliens in tourists, and nearly all foreigners, but not the rock band. Based on that if a tourist is the man, it makes it easier to stick it to him.