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Current Events => Politics => Topic started by: Penrod on July 04, 2012, 04:24:31 PM

Title: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Penrod on July 04, 2012, 04:24:31 PM

The whole birther thing has always been a distraction perpetrated by Obama to hide the simple truth. He is not qualified to run for president never mind be the president. Only a natural born citizen can run for that office. That would include most of us in the US but not Obama

OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN

By J.B. Williams
April 29, 2011
NewsWithViews.com

[Disclaimer: The opinion expressed in this article are solely those of JB Williams and not necessary the opinion of NWV, its staff or other writers.]

As the media blitz to silence questions about Obama’s eligibility for office become shrill, Obama finally releases his so-called “long form” birth certificate (aka, a birth certificate), confirming once and for all that he is not a natural born citizen of the United States in compliance with Article II of the U.S. Constitution.

Let the impeachment begin!

The document posted on the White House web site, reported to be Obama’s actual birth certificate, appears to be a very poor forgery even to the untrained eye. But that’s not really the big story here…

The release of this document actually proves a few things much more important at this stage of the debate.

    • Obama lied – having claimed for two years to have already released his birth certificate, which birthers correctly identified as only a COLB (Certification of Live Birth). Now he has released his birth certificate, allegedly.
    • The press lied – swearing to Obama’s lie, also claiming over and over and over again for two years, that Obama had already released his birth certificate. He had not. Now he has, maybe.
    • Barack Hussein Obama I is his natural birth father – and since he was never a citizen of the United States, Barack Obama II cannot possibly be a natural born citizen of the United States.
    • Most people don’t know what natural born citizen means.

To be or not to be a natural born citizen

The official definition of natural born citizen is as follows –

    1. natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens.
    2. those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights.
    3. The country of the fathers is therefore that of the children; and these become true citizens
    4. in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country.

For those still having trouble following along, a natural born citizen is one born the natural offspring of a father who was at the time of birth, a U.S. citizen.

Now that Obama has confirmed that his natural birth father was a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country. He has confirmed that he is not a natural born citizen of the United States.

As a result, the U.S. Constitution says he cannot be president of the United States, just as birthers have claimed for over two years. Article II – Section I – Clause V of the U.S. Constitution is very clear on the matter –

“No person except a natural born citizen, (or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution,) shall be eligible to the office of President;”

Case closed!

As the confirmed natural born son of a foreign father who was at no time in his life a citizen of the United States, Barack Obama is not a natural born citizen of the United States and he cannot be president of the United States, just as many suspected and the constitution states unequivocally.

However, now that all Americans know the truth, what can they do about it?

Impeach immediately!

Some have claimed that Obama cannot be impeached because he was not legally elected, as a candidate who was a fraud from the start. I’m not a lawyer, but I disagree.

From the moment that Supreme Court Justice Roberts administered the oath of office to Barack Obama on January 20, 2009, he has sat in the people’s White House as the official president of the United States and has in fact made a disaster of our nation and much of the free world while sitting in that chair.

Not only can he be impeached, he must be. He must be impeached, removed from office and maybe put in prison for life for his intentional outright fraud.

Further, all in his administration, in congress and in the Supreme Court who knew he was a fraud and did nothing to stop this nightmare, must immediately resign and be charged with conspiracy to commit fraud as well.

In any free representative republic, there is nothing more vital than the integrity of our system. Once the people have lost faith in the integrity of the system, there is no system. No individual or group of politicians is more important than the preservation of our system of self-governance. All who were complicit must be held accountable in order to protect and preserve our constitutional republic.

    1. I call for the immediate impeachment of Barack Hussein Obama for the high crime of fraud and breach of the public trust.

    2. I call upon House Representative Allen West to initiate impeachment proceedings against Barack Hussein Obama at once.

Allen West is a retired Military Colonel who has sworn an oath to protect and defend the U.S. Constitution and the people of the United States, twice, as a soldier and as a House Representative.
He took an oath to protect and preserve against all enemies, foreign and domestic and he currently has the confidence of the American people as an honorable man.

Last, the main stream press who has lied on Obama’s behalf, misleading the American public for almost three years regarding the fraud in the people’s White House, must be held accountable too. I call upon all American citizens to boycott all of the media outlets and personalities that carried water for the greatest fraud ever perpetrated on the American public.

I would also like to know why all the conservative media hasnt picked this up. Is it a conspiracy? Are they shamed by the so called birther movement. All his BC proves is he is not fit to serve as he is a British citizen. Just who the NBC clause was meant to prevent from running.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: obumazombie on July 04, 2012, 04:26:38 PM

This is dated over a year ago.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Carl on July 04, 2012, 04:35:35 PM

http://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-29/0-0-0-9679.html

Quote

INA: ACT 301 - NATIONALS AND CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES AT BIRTH


 Sec. 301. [8 U.S.C. 1401] The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:

 (a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof

Unless someone can get the SCOTUS to overturn this part of the US Code it is presumed the law of the land.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Penrod on July 04, 2012, 04:38:43 PM

Quote from: obumazombie on July 04, 2012, 04:26:38 PM

This is dated over a year ago.

So has Obama now have a new father? Ive been preaching this since before he was elected as have many other who have all been totally ignored. It was even emailed to Trump who never used it. Mc Cain isnt an NBC either lol. He was born in Panama . Yet congress made him one but never inquired about Obama. You cannot make some one an NBC through congress. natural means just that. You dont need any law to make it so. it comes naturally.So we had two non qualified men running for president.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Penrod on July 04, 2012, 04:45:15 PM

The Fourteenth Amendment by its clear text gives the status of a “citizen of the United States” to those born or naturalized in the United States and “subject to the jurisdiction thereof.”  It does not give anyone the status of a “natural born Citizen.”  When the Founders and Framers inserted the “natural born Citizen” clause in the Constitution, there was no Fourteenth Amendment.  Hence, they surely did not write the clause into the Constitution having in mind any citizenship standard that is contained in the Fourteenth Amendment.  And there does not exist any evidence that the Fourteenth Amendment repealed or amended the Founders’ and Framers’ definition of an Article II “natural born Citizen.”  Hence, Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 and the Fourteenth Amendment stand as two separate and distinct constitutional provisions which provide two different constitutional citizenship standards. 

Again, Minor v. Happersett confirmed the American “common-law” definition of a “natural-born citizen,” which Minor said the Founders and Framers were familiar with and used when they wrote the “natural born Citizen” clause. That definition is a child “born in a country of parents who were its citizens.”  Id. at 167-68.  Minor left open the question of whether a child born “within the jurisdiction”  of the United States to alien parents is a “citizen of the United States” under the Fourteenth Amendment.  As we have seen, this is a different standard as that which applies to defining a “natural born Citizen.”

Wong Kim Ark answered the single question left open by Minor.  It held that Wong, born in the United States to domiciled and resident alien parents who were neither diplomats nor military invaders was born “subject to the jurisdiction” of the United States and therefore a “citizen of the United States” from the moment of birth.  The Court’s single task was to interpret and apply the Fourteenth Amendment, not Article II, Section 1, Clause 5.  The Court found that Wong’s parents being domiciled and residents (not “citizens”) was enough to give jurisdiction to the United States over them and Wong when Wong was born.  Again, since the Fourteenth Amendment neither repealed nor amended Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 “natural born Citizen” clause, Wong defined a “citizen of the United States” under the Fourteenth Amendment, not a “natural born Citizen” under Article II.  In fact, Wong’s specific holding uses the phrase “citizen of the United States,” not “natural born Citizen.”  Hence, using that amendment to find someone a “citizen of the United States,” regardless of whether that person is a “citizen” from the moment of birth, has no direct bearing on the definition of an Article II “natural born Citizen.”  After all, Article II says “natural born Citizen,” not “born Citizen,” and is applied for presidential eligibility.  What the Fourteenth Amendment can do with reference to a “natural born Citizen” is increase the pool of parents who become “citizens of the United States” and give birth to “natural born Citizens.”   

The clause “natural born Citizen” is a word of art, an idiom, a unitary clause, which has a very special meaning as confirmed by Minor.  It is constitutional error to conflate and confound a “citizen of the United States” under the Fourteenth Amendment with a “natural born Citizen” under Article II.  A “natural born Citizen,” being the standard for the President and the Commander in Chief of the Military, requires allegiance and citizenship only to the United States from the moment of birth.  A Fourteenth Amendment “citizen of the United States” from birth does not have the same allegiance requirement and can even be born with dual and conflicting allegiances, a condition which the Founders and Framers did not permit future Presidents and Commanders to have when born.  They were very specific as is evident from the plain text of Article II, Section 1, Clause 5, that after the adoption of the Constitution, one had to be a “natural born Citizen,” and not just a “Citizen of the United States.”     
NBChttp://puzo1.blogspot.com (http://puzo1.blogspot.com/)/

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: obumazombie on July 04, 2012, 04:50:30 PM

Unless you can prove he was born outside the US, and not in Hawaii, to a US citizen (his mother), you will not gain very much traction.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Penrod on July 04, 2012, 04:53:21 PM

The Fourteenth Amendment by its clear text gives the status of a “citizen of the United States” to those born or naturalized in the United States and “subject to the jurisdiction thereof.”  It does not give anyone the status of a “natural born Citizen.”  When the Founders and Framers inserted the “natural born Citizen” clause in the Constitution, there was no Fourteenth Amendment.  Hence, they surely did not write the clause into the Constitution having in mind any citizenship standard that is contained in the Fourteenth Amendment.  And there does not exist any evidence that the Fourteenth Amendment repealed or amended the Founders’ and Framers’ definition of an Article II “natural born Citizen.”  Hence, Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 and the Fourteenth Amendment stand as two separate and distinct constitutional provisions which provide two different constitutional citizenship standards. 

Again, Minor v. Happersett confirmed the American “common-law” definition of a “natural-born citizen,” which Minor said the Founders and Framers were familiar with and used when they wrote the “natural born Citizen” clause. That definition is a child “born in a country of parents who were its citizens.”  Id. at 167-68.  Minor left open the question of whether a child born “within the jurisdiction”  of the United States to alien parents is a “citizen of the United States” under the Fourteenth Amendment.  As we have seen, this is a different standard as that which applies to defining a “natural born Citizen.”

Wong Kim Ark answered the single question left open by Minor.  It held that Wong, born in the United States to domiciled and resident alien parents who were neither diplomats nor military invaders was born “subject to the jurisdiction” of the United States and therefore a “citizen of the United States” from the moment of birth.  The Court’s single task was to interpret and apply the Fourteenth Amendment, not Article II, Section 1, Clause 5.  The Court found that Wong’s parents being domiciled and residents (not “citizens”) was enough to give jurisdiction to the United States over them and Wong when Wong was born.  Again, since the Fourteenth Amendment neither repealed nor amended Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 “natural born Citizen” clause, Wong defined a “citizen of the United States” under the Fourteenth Amendment, not a “natural born Citizen” under Article II.  In fact, Wong’s specific holding uses the phrase “citizen of the United States,” not “natural born Citizen.”  Hence, using that amendment to find someone a “citizen of the United States,” regardless of whether that person is a “citizen” from the moment of birth, has no direct bearing on the definition of an Article II “natural born Citizen.”  After all, Article II says “natural born Citizen,” not “born Citizen,” and is applied for presidential eligibility.  What the Fourteenth Amendment can do with reference to a “natural born Citizen” is increase the pool of parents who become “citizens of the United States” and give birth to “natural born Citizens.”   

The clause “natural born Citizen” is a word of art, an idiom, a unitary clause, which has a very special meaning as confirmed by Minor.  It is constitutional error to conflate and confound a “citizen of the United States” under the Fourteenth Amendment with a “natural born Citizen” under Article II.  A “natural born Citizen,” being the standard for the President and the Commander in Chief of the Military, requires allegiance and citizenship only to the United States from the moment of birth.  A Fourteenth Amendment “citizen of the United States” from birth does not have the same allegiance requirement and can even be born with dual and conflicting allegiances, a condition which the Founders and Framers did not permit future Presidents and Commanders to have when born.  They were very specific as is evident from the plain text of Article II, Section 1, Clause 5, that after the adoption of the Constitution, one had to be a “natural born Citizen,” and not just a “Citizen of the United States.”     

NBChttp://puzo1.blogspot.com/ (http://puzo1.blogspot.com/)

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Penrod on July 04, 2012, 04:55:24 PM

So we should ignore the constitution. Being born in the US does not make you a natural born citizen of it. :banghead:
It currently makes you a citizen.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Carl on July 04, 2012, 04:57:30 PM

Additional reading...

http://www.worldandi.com/subscribers/feature_detail.asp?num=26823

Quote

Defining a “natural born citizen”
        
       The Courts have taken other ideas into consideration when determining who qualifies as a “natural born citizen.”
        
       United States v. Wong Kim Ark (1898). On March 28, 1898, in delivering the opinion of the Supreme Court for United States v. Wong Kim Ark, in which the Supreme Court had to determine, “whether a child born in the United States, of parents of Chinese descent, who, at the time of his birth, are subjects of the Emperor of China, but have a permanent domicile and residence in the United States, and are there carrying on business, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the Emperor of China, becomes at the time of his birth a citizen of the United States by virtue of the first clause of the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution,” Justice Gray stated, “In construing any act of legislation, whether a statute enacted by the legislature or a constitution established by the people as the supreme law of the land, regard is to be had not only to all parts of the act itself, and of any former act of the same lawmaking power of which the act in question is an amendment, but also to the condition and to the history [p654] of the law as previously existing, and in the light of which the new act must be read and interpreted.”
        
       “The Constitution nowhere defines the meaning of these words, either by way of inclusion or of exclusion, except insofar as this is done by the affirmative declaration that ‘all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States.’ In this as in other respects, it must be interpreted in the light of the common law, the principles and history of which were familiarly known to the framers of the Constitution.”

No matter how one wishes to wordsmith it this is simply a non issue and that is why it never saw much of the light of day much less went anywhere.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Ballygrl on July 04, 2012, 04:59:47 PM

Oh! that's why Hannity's board banned you, they hated discussing the birther issue.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Penrod on July 04, 2012, 05:02:09 PM

Read the link I gave you. Its covered
Wong Kim Ark answered the single question left open by Minor.  It held that Wong, born in the United States to domiciled and resident alien parents who were neither diplomats nor military invaders was born “subject to the jurisdiction” of the United States and therefore a “citizen of the United States” from the moment of birth.  The Court’s single task was to interpret and apply the Fourteenth Amendment, not Article II, Section 1, Clause 5.  The Court found that Wong’s parents being domiciled and residents (not “citizens”) was enough to give jurisdiction to the United States over them and Wong when Wong was born.  Again, since the Fourteenth Amendment neither repealed nor amended Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 “natural born Citizen” clause, Wong defined a “citizen of the United States” under the Fourteenth Amendment, not a “natural born Citizen” under Article II.  In fact, Wong’s specific holding uses the phrase “citizen of the United States,” not “natural born Citizen.”  Hence, using that amendment to find someone a “citizen of the United States,” regardless of whether that person is a “citizen” from the moment of birth, has no direct bearing on the definition of an Article II “natural born Citizen.”  After all, Article II says “natural born Citizen,” not “born Citizen,” and is applied for presidential eligibility.  What the Fourteenth Amendment can do with reference to a “natural born Citizen” is increase the pool of parents who become “citizens of the United States” and give birth to “natural born Citizens.”   

The clause “natural born Citizen” is a word of art, an idiom, a unitary clause, which has a very special meaning as confirmed by Minor.  It is constitutional error to conflate and confound a “citizen of the United States” under the Fourteenth Amendment with a “natural born Citizen” under Article II.  A “natural born Citizen,” being the standard for the President and the Commander in Chief of the Military, requires allegiance and citizenship only to the United States from the moment of birth.  A Fourteenth Amendment “citizen of the United States” from birth does not have the same allegiance requirement and can even be born with dual and conflicting allegiances, a condition which the Founders and Framers did not permit future Presidents and Commanders to have when born.  They were very specific as is evident from the plain text of Article II, Section 1, Clause 5, that after the adoption of the Constitution, one had to be a “natural born Citizen,” and not just a “Citizen of the United States.”     

There is no other U.S. Supreme Court case that has changed the meaning of a “natural born Citizen” as confirmed by Minor.  That definition, which is the definition from the Founding, it therefore the supreme law of the land and stands today until amended by Constitutional amendment.  And that definition is  a child “born in a country of parents who were its citizens.” 

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Penrod on July 04, 2012, 05:02:57 PM

I posted more on that than anything there lol.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Carl on July 04, 2012, 05:09:24 PM

Look,just as most of us here feel obamacare flies in the face of the Constitution it has just been ruled upon and until under another challenge is overturned or repealed by Congress it remains intact.

The case above more then gives credence to the idea that birth on this soil constitutes Constitutional citizenry and as cited above is part of the US Code.
If you disagree that is fine,take the matter to court with your opinion,try to get it heard before the Supreme Court and have them throw it out.
Until then it is not a thing nor is there even sufficient reasoning to think so.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Penrod on July 04, 2012, 05:12:34 PM

You just dont get it do you. It may make him a citizen but in no way does it make him an NBC Read the constitution man. It doesnt say you must be a citizen to be president . it has a special required. That you must be an NBC. What if Obamas father had been the king of England. We would now have the King as president. There is no doubt he is not an NBC. I dont see how any conservative can argue against this.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: formerlurker on July 04, 2012, 05:18:34 PM

Quote from: Penrod on July 04, 2012, 05:12:34 PM

You just dont get it do you. It may make him a citizen but in no way does it make him an NBC Read the constitution man. It doesnt say you must be a citizen to be president . it has a special required. That you must be an NBC. What if Obamas father had been the king of England. We would now have the King as president. There is no doubt he is not an NBC. I dont see how any conservative can argue against this.

Wait... you have to watch NBC to be president?     

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: formerlurker on July 04, 2012, 05:19:44 PM

Does 30 Rock count?    Shoot.. did I just admit out loud that I watch 30 Rock.... damn damn damn....

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Penrod on July 04, 2012, 05:20:27 PM

How do you quote here. I hit quote and nothing happens?

No you must watch MSNBC lol

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: formerlurker on July 04, 2012, 05:22:02 PM

Quote from: Penrod on July 04, 2012, 05:20:27 PM

How do you quote here. I hit quote and nothing happens?

No you must watch MSNBC lol

Oh forget it then.. unless I can keep the sound off.   Then maybe if I ever start drinking again. 

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Carl on July 04, 2012, 05:23:27 PM

Quote from: Penrod on July 04, 2012, 05:12:34 PM

You just dont get it do you. It may make him a citizen but in no way does it make him an NBC Read the constitution man. It doesnt say you must be a citizen to be president . it has a special required. That you must be an NBC. What if Obamas father had been the king of England. We would now have the King as president. There is no doubt he is not an NBC. I dont see how any conservative can argue against this.

No,what we get is coffee shop musings on Constitutional interpretation carry no weight in regards to how our civil society is structured.
Again,if you disagree with the US Code and its basis in Court findings follow the mechanism proscribed to change it,it can not be done by fiat or decree.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Carl on July 04, 2012, 05:27:42 PM

Quote from: Penrod on July 04, 2012, 05:20:27 PM

How do you quote here. I hit quote and nothing happens?

No you must watch MSNBC lol

NO...not THAT!!! :ohnoes: :p

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Penrod on July 04, 2012, 05:29:35 PM

Therefore, to handle all the possible classes of citenship in the US, it is necessary to distinguish between natural law citizens, Constitutional citizens and statutory citizens, and also to distinguish between native citizens and non-native citizens:

       Native (from birth)    Non-native (post birth)
    Natural Law    Native citizen per natural law
    Natural born citizen    Non-native citizen per natural law
    (Those who become citizens of a newly-created nation)
    Constitutional Law    Naturalized native citizen per Constitutional definition    Naturalized non-native citizen per Constitutional definition
    —Does not (currently) exist—
    Statutory Law    Naturalized native citizen per statutory definition    Naturalized non-native citizen per statutory definition

Of course, in other countries, other classes of citizenship may exist, and classes of citizenship that exist in the US may not. For example, some countries don't have Constitutions or even legislatures, and others have monarchs who may have the power to grant citizenship (a power the US President lacks.)

We can use the term "Constitutional natural born citizen" to refer to someone who is a "natural born citizen" according to the natural-law based definition intended by those who wrote and ratified the Constitution. The term must be understood in that sense when it appears in the Constitution or in a Constitution-related document such as a Supreme Court decision.

We canl use the term "statutory natural born citizen" to refer to someone who is deemed a "natural born citizen" by Federal or State law.

These distinctions are not my invention. The U.S. Department of State Foreign Affairs Manual—7 FAM 1130 (page 9) says:

    ...the fact that someone is a natural born citizen pursuant to a statute does not necessarily imply that he or she is such a citizen for Constitutional purposes

If we were to define "natural born citizen" to mean anyone who is a "citizen at birth", our definition of "natural born citizen" would be statutory because it would depend on the statute or law which defines "citizen at birth." Under existing law, all children born outside the United State to parents who are citizens are "citizens at birth". Therefore, using our hypothetical definition of "natural born citizen" as anyone who is a citizen at birth, all those born abroad to US-citizen parents would be statutorily defined as "natural born citizens" because their status as citizens at birth would be granted by statute. So that definition of "natural born citizen" would mean that Congress could change the meaning of "natural born citizen" by changing the rules of naturalization. It would also mean that Congress, simply by changing the naturalization rules, could also change who was or was not eligible to be President.

That cannot be what the Founders intended. Had it been, they would simply have granted Congress the power to dictate who shall or shall not be a citizen (or any sort,) and who could or could not be President. But they pointedly did not grant Congress any power to determine who would or would not naturally be citizens, nor who would be eligible to be President. The only power they granted Congress regarding citizenship was to make rules regarding naturalization of citizens (the making of citizens who would not be citizens naturally.) And they granted Congress no power to determine Presidential eligibility rules at all.

It may be—and this essay so argues—that all natural born citizens are also native born citizens. But the reverse cannot be true without not only creating logical contradictions, but without granting Congress powers that were clearly intended to be denied to them.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: WinOne4TheGipper on July 04, 2012, 05:45:24 PM

Quote from: formerlurker on July 04, 2012, 05:19:44 PM

Does 30 Rock count?    Shoot.. did I just admit out loud that I watch 30 Rock.... damn damn damn....

I finally figured it out.  Barack Obama was born on the remote controlled airplanes from 9/11 as his father shot JFK and his mother faked the moon landing.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: thundley4 on July 04, 2012, 05:46:34 PM

Quote from: formerlurker on July 04, 2012, 05:18:34 PM

Wait... you have to watch NBC to be president?     

I'm sure Obama does or at least PMSNBC.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: obumazombie on July 04, 2012, 05:50:44 PM

Penrod, you've got some passion, but did you notice this line of attack doesn't produce any traction ? It's a wheel spin. The more you hit the gas the more and faster your whees will spin.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Carl on July 04, 2012, 05:51:45 PM

http://www.worldandi.com/subscribers/feature_detail.asp?num=26823

Quote

 State Department Foreign Affairs Manual
        
       • U.S. citizenship may be acquired either at birth or through naturalization.
        
       • U.S. laws governing the acquisition of citizenship at birth embody two legal principles:
        
       1. Jus soli (the law of the soil), a rule of common law under which the place of a person’s birth determines citizenship. In addition to common law, this principle is embodied in the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution and the various U.S. citizenship and nationality statutes.
        
       2. Jus sanguinis (the law of the bloodline ), a concept of Roman or civil law under which a person’s citizenship is determined by the citizenship of one or both parents. This rule, frequently called “citizenship by descent” or “derivative citizenship”, is not embodied in the U.S. Constitution, but such citizenship is granted through statute. As laws have changed, the requirements for conferring and retaining derivative citizenship have also changed.
        
       • Naturalization is “the conferring of nationality of a state upon a person after birth, by any means whatsoever” or conferring of citizenship upon a person. Naturalization can be granted automatically or pursuant to an application. Under U.S. law, foreign naturalization acquired automatically is not an expatriating act.
      

It sounds like what you are basing things on is that since they did not use the exact term "Natural Born Citizen" in Wong Kim Ark then they clearly meant it to be something else.
This is a little like telling a teen when leaving on a date at 7:00 PM you want them home by 11 and then they argue the next day you didn`t specify PM or AM.

In fact it was clear what they meant because in his dissent Chief Justice Fuller adopts your position.

Quote

“t is unreasonable to conclude that ‘natural born citizen’ applied to everybody born within the geographical tract known as the United States, irrespective of circumstances; and that the children of foreigners, happening to be born to them while passing through the country, whether of royal parentage or not, or whether of the Mongolian, Malay, or other race, were eligible to the presidency, while children of our citizens, born abroad, were not.”

Had that been the majority opinion then what you say would be correct but since it was not and clearly shows what type of citizenry was being determined we are back to square one.

Simply put in the Minor case it was open to interpretation...

Quote

“The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their [p168] parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case it is not necessary to solve these doubts. It is sufficient for everything we have now to consider that all children born of citizen parents within the jurisdiction are themselves citizens.

It is not at all unusual for a later court to clarify or reverse an earlier courts decision and that is what you have here.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Penrod on July 04, 2012, 06:02:35 PM

Quote
“The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their [p168] parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case it is not necessary to solve these doubts. It is sufficient for everything we have now to consider that all children born of citizen parents within the jurisdiction are themselves citizens.

It is not at all unusual for a later court to clarify or reverse an earlier courts decision and that is what you have here.

A court cannot change a natural law lol

Your quote proves my claim

 it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their [p168] parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case it is not necessary to solve these doubts. It is sufficient for everything we have now to consider that all children born of citizen parents within the jurisdiction are themselves citizens.

That is natural law

Not something congress or scotus makes up.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Penrod on July 04, 2012, 06:05:13 PM

Jesus even at Hannity all the conservatives agreed on this. Are you sure this a a conservative forum? Your posting exactly what the liberals posted there. :rotf:

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Eupher on July 04, 2012, 06:07:20 PM

Quote from: Penrod on July 04, 2012, 06:05:13 PM

Jesus even at Hannity all the conservatives agreed on this. Are you sure this a a conservative forum? Your posting exactly what the liberals posted there. :rotf:

:awjeez:

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Eupher on July 04, 2012, 06:08:57 PM

Just keep beating that horse, Penrod. Maybe you'll wake it up after it starts rotting.

SCOTUS had their crack at the issue in Dec 08/Jan 09. They did nothing with it. It went nowhere. All your flagellating will not change any of that.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Chris_ on July 04, 2012, 06:10:19 PM

Quote from: Penrod on July 04, 2012, 06:05:13 PM

Jesus even at Hannity all the conservatives agreed on this. Are you sure this a a conservative forum?

:whatever: :jerkit:

Great.  Another one of these.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Carl on July 04, 2012, 06:15:35 PM

Quote from: Penrod on July 04, 2012, 06:02:35 PM

Quote
“The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their [p168] parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case it is not necessary to solve these doubts. It is sufficient for everything we have now to consider that all children born of citizen parents within the jurisdiction are themselves citizens.

It is not at all unusual for a later court to clarify or reverse an earlier courts decision and that is what you have here.

A court cannot change a natural law lol

Your quote proves my claim

 it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their [p168] parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case it is not necessary to solve these doubts. It is sufficient for everything we have now to consider that all children born of citizen parents within the jurisdiction are themselves citizens.

That is natural law

Not something congress or scotus makes up.

What are you talking about?
The SCOTUS routinely weighs in on these things sometimes to our like sometimes to our dislike.
Your statement of natural law comes from where?
The opinions of the various Justices cited all declare that the Constitution makes no declaration as to what a Natural Born Citizen exactly is but needs interpretation.
In Minor the Justice asserts his and in Ark another clarifies with his.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Penrod on July 04, 2012, 06:18:55 PM

Its already been explained to you why they cannot rule or change a natural law.

I guess those at Free Republic dont know what their speaking of

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Natural Born Citizen: A Natural Law Cannot that be Changed By Congress, or the Courts..
Free Republic ^ | 30 April 2010 | self

Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 10:12:50 PM by bushpilot1

Why did the Founders place a Natural Law (natural born citizen) in the Constitution? Could it be to prevent Congress,or the Courts changing it in the future.

Natural Law: The highest rule of human conduct as imposed by God on man.

Natural Law: The law under which we are placed by our birth into the world. Two parents.

Can man change Natural Law with Civil, or Common Laws? Can Congress change Natural Law? Can the Courts?

This is the "strong check" John Jay hinted to George Washington.

They cannot change Natural Law.

Ill ask you again what is the Purpose of the NBC clause?

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: JohnnyReb on July 04, 2012, 06:23:19 PM

Oh shiite....I think my water just broke.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: obumazombie on July 04, 2012, 06:26:53 PM

Penrod, did you ever notice that sometimes theory doesn't match reality ? Sometimes you have to deal with reality, apart from theory.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: WinOne4TheGipper on July 04, 2012, 06:29:49 PM

Quote from: chris_ on July 04, 2012, 06:10:19 PM

:whatever: :jerkit:

Great.  Another one of these.

Another "true conservative" upset that not everyone buys into liberal conspiracy theories.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Chris_ on July 04, 2012, 06:30:28 PM

Quote from: WinOne4TheGipper on July 04, 2012, 06:29:49 PM

Another "true conservative" upset that not everyone buys into liberal conspiracy theories.

Another jerk coming in here and telling us we're not good enough for him.

Gotta love it.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Carl on July 04, 2012, 06:31:39 PM

Quote from: Penrod on July 04, 2012, 06:18:55 PM

Its already been explained to you why they cannot rule or change a natural law.

I guess those at Free Republic dont know what their speaking of

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Natural Born Citizen: A Natural Law Cannot that be Changed By Congress, or the Courts..
Free Republic ^ | 30 April 2010 | self

Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 10:12:50 PM by bushpilot1

Why did the Founders place a Natural Law (natural born citizen) in the Constitution? Could it be to prevent Congress,or the Courts changing it in the future.

Natural Law: The highest rule of human conduct as imposed by God on man.

Natural Law: The law under which we are placed by our birth into the world. Two parents.

Can man change Natural Law with Civil, or Common Laws? Can Congress change Natural Law? Can the Courts?

This is the "strong check" John Jay hinted to George Washington.

They cannot change Natural Law.

Ill ask you again what is the Purpose of the NBC clause?

What makes your case accurate if not for interpretation that says ones parents must be citizens too?
In essence the Justice said he accepts that even though the Constitution does not specifically say so.
Another Justice later interpreted it to mean even more basic or "natural" if you will and that is simply birth on US soil.

You have to declare his opinion adding to the earlier one is null and void for the basic reason that you don`t like it.
Good luck with that one.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Penrod on July 04, 2012, 06:47:56 PM

Do you understand Natural law? Do you know what the US is based on? And once more why did they write the NBC clause. The answer to that proves my point. Ive shown you that Obama himself admitted he wasnt qualified and ive shown constitutional scholars who say the same. And all I get here from most is snide remarks.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: obumazombie on July 04, 2012, 06:51:53 PM

Quote from: Penrod on July 04, 2012, 06:47:56 PM

Do you understand Natural law? Do you know what the US is based on? And once more why did they write the NBC clause. The answer to that proves my point. Ive shown you that Obama himself admitted he wasnt qualified and ive shown constitutional scholars who say the same. And all I get here from most is snide remarks.

What replies do you want, and what replies do you expect ?

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Carl on July 04, 2012, 06:58:22 PM

You are simply doing what most conspiracy theory people do,throw out anything that proves them wrong,create vague terms that they can only define as needed.

What part of a SCOTUS decision that declares the Constitution does not define what a Natural Born Citizen is and therefore open to interpretation from outside and then goes on to assert his own do you not understand.
His decision never closed down further discussion of the issue and in fact says for the purpose of his decision it simply didn`t matter.

Sorry dude,you have not suddenly stumbled upon a here before now unknown reasoning nor would it matter if you had somehow as it is codified at this point and not been reviewed or overturned by SCOTUS decision or Congressional mandate.

You can scream about it until you are hoarse but it does no good and quite frankly does nothing to advance any kind of conservative agenda.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: thundley4 on July 04, 2012, 06:59:36 PM

Why isn't this in the MNS forum yet?

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Carl on July 04, 2012, 07:10:37 PM

Quote from: thundley4 on July 04, 2012, 06:59:36 PM

Why isn't this in the MNS forum yet?

I can`t put it there but it is where it belongs.

Honestly,this is not even to my knowledge considered anything but fringe in the birther movement,which as I understood it centered around the question of was he born on US soil or not.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Mike220 on July 04, 2012, 07:28:19 PM

Quote from: chris_ on July 04, 2012, 06:30:28 PM

Another jerk coming in here and telling us we're not good enough for him.

Gotta love it.

Benny P must've sent out a call for reinforcements.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: seahorse513 on July 04, 2012, 08:15:28 PM

The problem is Penrod, is that he wan't vetted thoroughly enough. The fact that his father was born , raised and still a citizen of Africa should have thrown up some red flags!! Wasn't he here on some scholarship??? Then his mum divorced him, the father went back to Africa. He (the father)never intended to become a US citizen(another red flag imo). Then his mother goes and marries an Indonesian, and off they go off to Indonesia(another red flag). But the US government seemed to be okay with this...I wasn't. I don't know hoe old the POTUS is, but I have probably lived in this country physically longer than he has...
I was born of English parents in England, but I have lived here for 44 of my 47 years.
My question is to everyone, if he is so dang patriotic, why the **** is he spending our Day of Independence in France??? :rant: :rant:
Not you maybe, but to me that is a slap in the face to all American Patriots and especially the military!!!

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Eupher on July 04, 2012, 08:48:02 PM

Quote from: JohnnyReb on July 04, 2012, 06:23:19 PM

Oh shiite....I think my water just broke.

 :rotf: :lmao:

h5

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Eupher on July 04, 2012, 08:50:10 PM

Quote from: Penrod on July 04, 2012, 06:47:56 PM

Do you understand Natural law? Do you know what the US is based on? And once more why did they write the NBC clause. The answer to that proves my point. Ive shown you that Obama himself admitted he wasnt qualified and ive shown constitutional scholars who say the same. And all I get here from most is snide remarks.

I like pie.

(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i317/Eupher6/stock-photo-chastity-belt-52995130.jpg)

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Chris_ on July 04, 2012, 08:56:26 PM

Quote from: Penrod on July 04, 2012, 06:47:56 PM

Ive shown you that Obama himself admitted he wasnt qualified and ive shown constitutional scholars who say the same.

Fine.  Hire a lawyer and bring it to court.

I'll be waiting. :yawn:

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Big Dog on July 04, 2012, 11:02:41 PM

Quote from: Penrod on July 04, 2012, 06:05:13 PM

Jesus even at Hannity all the conservatives agreed on this. Are you sure this a a conservative forum? Your posting exactly what the liberals posted there. :rotf:

Don't make me open a can of pie on you, newbie.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Bad Dog on July 05, 2012, 01:18:09 AM

Penrod, I think you could use some advice on forum etiquette. If Frank were here, he would advise you spend a little time perusing other threads & perhaps post a few replies before opening your first thread.  This helps you get a realistic idea of the common beliefs & values of the other members (pie, boobies, beer & bacon). It is not considered good form to jump right in with a thread on what you feel is the most important issue ever. It is really bad form to then make accusations & demeaning comments about the forum in general when we don't agree with you.

Quote:"you just dont get it do you?"
Quote:"Are you sure this is a conservative forum?"
Quote:"and all I get here from most is snide remarks."

Others here have addressed your proposal much as I would have so, I won't add to the discussion further.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: txradioguy on July 05, 2012, 07:21:40 AM

Quote from: Penrod on July 04, 2012, 06:18:55 PM

Its already been explained to you why they cannot rule or change a natural law.

I guess those at Free Republic dont know what their speaking of

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Natural Born Citizen: A Natural Law Cannot that be Changed By Congress, or the Courts..
Free Republic ^ | 30 April 2010 | self

Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 10:12:50 PM by bushpilot1

Why did the Founders place a Natural Law (natural born citizen) in the Constitution? Could it be to prevent Congress,or the Courts changing it in the future.

Natural Law: The highest rule of human conduct as imposed by God on man.

Natural Law: The law under which we are placed by our birth into the world. Two parents.

Can man change Natural Law with Civil, or Common Laws? Can Congress change Natural Law? Can the Courts?

This is the "strong check" John Jay hinted to George Washington.

They cannot change Natural Law.

Ill ask you again what is the Purpose of the NBC clause?

Did our resident...and recently banned Constitutional "scholar" sneak back in or what?

So tell me troll what's your take on the USGS coverup at Yellowstone?

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Bad Dog on July 05, 2012, 10:05:47 AM

Quote from: txradioguy on July 05, 2012, 07:21:40 AM

Did our resident...and recently banned Constitutional "scholar" sneak back in or what?

So tell me troll what's your take on the USGS coverup at Yellowstone?

Not to mention the Wallmart Detention Camps   :panic:

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Big Dog on July 05, 2012, 09:08:43 PM

Quote from: seahorse513 on July 04, 2012, 08:15:28 PM

My question is to everyone, if he is so dang patriotic, why the **** is he spending our Day of Independence in France??? :rant: :rant:
Not you maybe, but to me that is a slap in the face to all American Patriots and especially the military!!!

seahorse, think of it this way: Do you know how vampires burst into flames when touched by sunlight?

Same thing.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: seahorse513 on July 05, 2012, 09:11:30 PM

Quote from: Big Dog on July 05, 2012, 09:08:43 PM

seahorse, think of it this way: Do you know how vampires burst into flames when touched by sunlight?

Same thing.

Yeah gotcha!! I still think it is bad form though...

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: txradioguy on July 06, 2012, 01:10:33 AM

Quote from: seahorse513 on July 05, 2012, 09:11:30 PM

Yeah gotcha!! I still think it is bad form though...

Maybe he got July 4th and June 6th mixed up.  :whistling:

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Eupher on July 06, 2012, 05:52:53 AM

Quote from: txradioguy on July 06, 2012, 01:10:33 AM

Maybe he got July 4th and June 6th mixed up.  :whistling:

He doesn't have enough HONOR to set foot near Normandy, much less run his cock holster through TOTUS.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: txradioguy on July 06, 2012, 05:58:05 AM

Quote from: Eupher on July 06, 2012, 05:52:53 AM

He doesn't have enough HONOR to set foot near Normandy, much less run his cock holster through TOTUS.

Well that would explain why he's failed to make mention of the anniv. of D-day two years running now.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: JohnnyReb on July 06, 2012, 06:31:59 AM

Quote from: txradioguy on July 06, 2012, 05:58:05 AM

Well that would explain why he's failed to make mention of the anniv. of D-day two years running now.

He did it on purpose OR he has surrounded himself with America hating hippies that didn't want/bother to remind him of the date.

Either way, he's a douche.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: seahorse513 on July 06, 2012, 07:18:49 AM

Quote from: JohnnyReb on July 06, 2012, 06:31:59 AM

He did it on purpose OR he has surrounded himself with America hating hippies that didn't want/bother to remind him of the date.

Either way, he's a douche.

Or maybe he is just an idiot who doesn't give a ****!!!

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: JohnnyReb on July 06, 2012, 07:44:21 AM

Quote from: seahorse513 on July 06, 2012, 07:18:49 AM

Or maybe he is just an idiot who doesn't give a ****!!!

I thought that went without saying.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Penrod on July 07, 2012, 12:06:04 PM

Wow you guys are tough over here

The founders included the NBC clause as they wanted no one becoming president with allegiance to anyone or any where other then the US. Obama is proof of why.

“At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first.” (Emphasis added.)


This is natural law. It doesnt take state to make you a citizen. Its a natural occurrence that no one can argue against.

If both your parents are US citizens and you are born here than naturally you are a US citizen. It doesnt take a law book

Heres another link Im sure you all wont read

Scrubbibng of Americahttp://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2011/02/24/the-scrubbing-of-america-how-professor-lawrence-solum-disgraced-himself-to-protect-obamas-eligibility/ (http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2011/02/24/the-scrubbing-of-america-how-professor-lawrence-solum-disgraced-himself-to-protect-obamas-eligibility/)

At the time of his birth British law said he was a British citizen. Thats exactly who the NBC clause was meant to keep out.

Im really in shock here as every other conservative forum Ive ever been on supports my case. And Ive been doing this for 4 years. If I could get in the Hannity forums I could show you over 3000 pages on this. I guess their all conspiracy theorists over there.

Even the 14th amendment has been misread to make citizens out of illegal aliens children. The constitution has been so warped that its almost unrecognizable at this point. The fact that so many of you write this off as nonsense is quite disturbing.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Big Dog on July 07, 2012, 12:21:28 PM

Quote from: Penrod on July 07, 2012, 12:06:04 PM

Wow you guys are tough over here
<snippity>
Im really in shock here as every other conservative forum Ive ever been on supports my case.

So why, exactly, are you still here?

Quote

And Ive been doing this for 4 years.

By your own admission, you've been trying and failing to accomplish your goal for four years. We don't reward failure here.

Penrod, you earned this. Really, you did.

"Squad, atten-tion! Present....arms!"

 :loser: :loser: :loser: :loser: :loser: :loser: :loser:
      :loser: :loser: :loser: :loser: :loser: :loser: :loser:
               :loser: :loser: :loser: :loser: :loser: :loser: :loser:

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Penrod on July 07, 2012, 12:35:33 PM

No for four years Ive been successful. Its only here ive had a problem lol

And why are you so rude. You are free to disagree but why the attitude?

Another link
Natural Born Citizenhttp://www.obamanotqualified.com/obama_is_not_a_natural_born_citizen.htm (http://www.obamanotqualified.com/obama_is_not_a_natural_born_citizen.htm)


The actual text of the THIRD CONGRESS in 1795 states, "...children of citizens [plural = both parents] of the United States...shall be considered citizens of the United States; Provided That the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons, whose fathers have never been resident in the United States..."  (THIRD CONGRESS Session II. Ch.21. 1795, Approved January 29, 1795, pp. 414-415. Document margin note: "How children shall obtain citizenship through their parents" Document margin note: "Former Act repealed 1790 ch.3.")
Not an NBC
http://www.obamanotqualified.com/obama_is_not_a_natural_born_citizen.htm (http://www.obamanotqualified.com/obama_is_not_a_natural_born_citizen.htm)

It seems Im far from alone. I can get quoteds from heritage House on this as well. But what the heck do they know right?

And being a Marine it will take alot more insults than your feeble attempt to get me to leave.  :tongue:

Ill have to go find a thread we can agree on and try to make some friends here. I never expected this thread to cause controversy other than a few Libs disagreeing. No Im not calling anyone a Lib. I wont insult anyone here like that unless they say they are a lib :)

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Penrod on July 07, 2012, 12:47:02 PM

And heres the link to Hannity although I can no longer get in you guys should be able to.

Default One & ONLY Obama Birth Certificate thread - Sean Hannity ..

1 and only Obama BC threadhttp://forums.hannity.com/showthread.php?2322571-One-amp-ONLY-Obama-Birth-Certificate-thread (http://forums.hannity.com/showthread.php?2322571-One-amp-ONLY-Obama-Birth-Certificate-thread)

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Bad Dog on July 07, 2012, 12:59:56 PM

I think Penrod is getting his emanations & penumbras reversed.  Or, maybe he is just full of crap.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Carl on July 07, 2012, 01:16:14 PM

Quote from: Penrod on July 07, 2012, 12:06:04 PM

Wow you guys are tough over here

The founders included the NBC clause as they wanted no one becoming president with allegiance to anyone or any where other then the US. Obama is proof of why.

“At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first.” (Emphasis added.)


This is natural law. It doesnt take state to make you a citizen. Its a natural occurrence that no one can argue against.

If both your parents are US citizens and you are born here than naturally you are a US citizen. It doesnt take a law book

Heres another link Im sure you all wont read

Scrubbibng of Americahttp://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2011/02/24/the-scrubbing-of-america-how-professor-lawrence-solum-disgraced-himself-to-protect-obamas-eligibility/ (http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2011/02/24/the-scrubbing-of-america-how-professor-lawrence-solum-disgraced-himself-to-protect-obamas-eligibility/)

At the time of his birth British law said he was a British citizen. Thats exactly who the NBC clause was meant to keep out.

Im really in shock here as every other conservative forum Ive ever been on supports my case. And Ive been doing this for 4 years. If I could get in the Hannity forums I could show you over 3000 pages on this. I guess their all conspiracy theorists over there.

Even the 14th amendment has been misread to make citizens out of illegal aliens children. The constitution has been so warped that its almost unrecognizable at this point. The fact that so many of you write this off as nonsense is quite disturbing.

What you are saying is that citizenship via birth on US soil is conditional upon the citizenship status of his/her parents.
The quote you offer speaks of this and acknowledges that many consider it birth alone regardless of parental status.
You conveniently leave out his next sentence which I showed earlier "For the purposes of this case it is not necessary to solve these doubts."
He never once stated that his assertion was the final say on the matter,just that in that case it was irrelevant.

The Ark case raises the issue and in all the context of it both majority opinion and dissent makes it clear that they were declaring birth on US soil or territory was enough.

On this now the US code (I linked to) states as much and Presidential eligibility as well as other matters has long been established via this accepted criteria.
No court has accepted challenge of it,if it ever even has been,so to say now that your theory is the basis for Presidential eligibility throws one out to the edges of rationality.

Beyond that,just for the sake of entertainment lets assume you are 100% correct despite the easily found and obvious case to the contrary...what to you propose?
Are the words from the US code going to suddenly vanish?
Is the SCOTUS going to declare the Presidency vacant and if so how is the office filled?
By a VP on an illegal at that point ticket?
The Speaker and if so which one,the one today or the one at the time the illegal election occurred,Nancy.
Is the current Speaker to order the House Sergent at Arms to physically remove O?
What is your remedy?

The whole thing is an exercise of uselessness based on selective reaching that seems to serve no other purpose then to make each one that engages in it want to feel themselves the smartest in the room.

In reality it is just lunacy.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Carl on July 07, 2012, 01:29:40 PM

 I just realized that even more conveniently you omitted the first sentence of the Justices statement..."The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that."

Please tell us as well why you would do that?

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Big Dog on July 07, 2012, 04:32:30 PM

Quote from: Penrod on July 07, 2012, 12:35:33 PM

No for four years Ive been successful. Its only here ive had a problem lol

If your goal is to have Obama removed from office as ineligible, and you have been at it for four years, then to date you have failed. You will only succeed if Obama is impeached and convicted, which is the only constitutional mechanism to remove a sitting president (with the exception of the 25th Amendment).

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Penrod on July 08, 2012, 10:26:06 AM

I just realized that even more conveniently you omitted the first sentence of the Justices statement..."The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that."


That only proves my point The founders well knew what NBC was. Ive already explained that no government can write natural law. Thats why they didnt attempt to do so. Im still in shock here as ive never had any conservative never mind a whole crew argue against this point. next you will be telling me that there is separation of church and state in the constitution.

Just What Does “Natural Born” Mean?

Posted on 23 April 2012 by csalima

by Candace Salima, US Daily Review Contributor

Mitt Romney is so far ahead in the delegate race (Romney – 685, Gingrich – 136, and Paul – 63 NYT) the other candidates have been dropped from the national conversation, and Romney is now focusing solely on Barack Obama. And since we’ve moved to this part of the race, the VP stakes are being played by every media outlet. One name which keeps rising to the top is Marco Rubio, the senator from Florida.

Rubio is the darling of the Florida tea party, a rising political star on the national stage and a peer of Utah’s Senator Mike Lee. A strong conservative, and right on many of the issues, Marco Rubio’s name is brought up at every turn. However, I’m startled that everyone on the conservative side is ignoring one salient fact. Marco Rubio, according to the legal definition, is not a natural born American citizen. Let me explain before your heads explode.

SPECIAL CONTENT: CANDACE SALIMA INTERVIEWED BY KEVIN PRICE ON “NATURAL BORN”

Article II, section 1, of the U.S. Constitution states: “No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.”

The definition of a “natural born” citizen is interpreted one of two ways:

One: An individual born on U.S. soil of American parents also born on U.S. soil; and, Two: An individual born on U.S. soil.

I subscribe to the first definition because the Founding Fathers were worried about divided loyalties in a sitting U.S. president, and rightfully so. Looking at the mess we’re in today with Barack Obama, who violates the first definition of natural born citizen, on multiple counts, I can understand their concern.

In 1875, the U.S. Courts found in the case of Minor vs. Happersett

“The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also.”

Find me a conservative of importance that agrees with you guys.

By this finding, Marco Rubio is not eligible to hold the office one step away from the U.S. presidency.

In examining Barack Obama’s status, he violates this clause. This is something that the House of Representatives has refused to address. But I do not wish to see the Republican Party flaunting the law, as have the Democrats. Marco Rubio, because his parents were not born in America, does not qualify to run as Vice President, solely because he doesn’t qualify to be president of the United States of America.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Penrod on July 08, 2012, 10:56:54 AM

Quote

There are other historical sources and cases which inform on the definition of a “natural born Citizen” but for the sake of brevity, I will not include them here.

We know from Vattel and Minor that "citizens" can be the parents of "natural born Citizens" but are not necessarily "natural born Citizens" themselves. Being born in the country to citizen parents allows a child to be born with no foreign allegiance and with loyalty and attachment only to the country of his or her parents. Such birth circumstances allow a child to be born under the full and complete allegiance and jurisdiction of the United States.

Obama's father, a British citizen, was never a U.S. citizen. Hence, Obama was not born in the country to citizen parents. Because Obama’s father was not a U.S. citizen, Obama, even if born in Hawaii which he has yet to conclusively prove, was also born with allegiance to and citizenship in Great Britain. Consequently, Obama was not born with no foreign allegiance and with sole loyalty and attachment to the United States. He was not born with sole allegiance and unity of citizenship in the United States at birth, a natural condition that the Founders and Framers wanted in future presidents and commanders in chief. He was not born under the full and complete allegiance and jurisdiction of the United States. He is not and cannot be an Article II "natural born Citizen." Under Article II, Section 1, Clause 5, he is therefore not eligible to be President and Commander in Chief.

But how can we expect to achieve and maintain greatness as a nation when our own president does not follow the rule of law as it pertains to his eligibility to be President? Being the putative President and Commander in Chief, Obama should be the first one to follow his own advice of putting country first. He and his enablers should put the Constitution (country) before his personal political ambitions (party). But up to now, Obama and his enablers are just saying "do as I say, not as I do."

Natural law and the natural born citizen clause (http://puzo1.blogspot.com/2011/08/rule-of-law-and-natural-born-citizen.html)

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: txradioguy on July 08, 2012, 11:01:59 AM

Almost four years in what does this matter?  We can't undo the 2008 election and erase almost 4 years of damage by the Liberals anymore than the DUmmies can go back and re-do 2000 because they think Bush stole that election.

Extremeists on either side tend to meet in the middle.

Such is the situation here.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Carl on July 08, 2012, 11:38:22 AM

All you have done is state your opinion,well fine,have at it.
However you also show that it is not a universally accepted one as you pretend it to be and in fact it is at the edges.
The US code which has not been overturned says different,live with it.

As far as trying to insinuate that unless one is in agreement with you,which is nothing more then an exercise in futility to claim O is not eligible is not conservative then go **** yourself.
CC does not engage in backslapping rah rah garbage like DU and sadly now FR,we address things factually and realistically.

You bolded my words which show you being dishonest and then have the gall to claim they prove your point?
That nonsense has no place here,nor does idiocy that would make CC look like a kook site.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Penrod on July 11, 2012, 03:26:30 PM

Quote

As far as trying to insinuate that unless one is in agreement with you,which is nothing more then an exercise in futility to claim O is not eligible is not conservative then go **** yourself.

I insinuate no such thing. Im only speaking of my experiences on other forums.

I cant see how you can believe in original intent and think Obama is an NBC. It makes a joke of the NBC clause.

But too each his own. Its obvious the few here who replied dont agree.  I wont keep banging my head against the wall. I hope at least we can all agree that Obama has to go this November  :cheersmate:

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: rich_t on July 11, 2012, 03:35:29 PM

Quote from: Penrod on July 11, 2012, 03:26:30 PM

I insinuate no such thing. Im only speaking of my experiences on other forums.

I cant see how you can believe in original intent and think Obama is an NBC. It makes a joke of the NBC clause.

But too each his own. Its obvious the few here who replied dont agree.  I wont keep banging my head against the wall. I hope at least we can all agree that Obama has to go this November  :cheersmate:

On that we can agree.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Eupher on July 11, 2012, 03:48:24 PM

Quote from: Penrod on July 11, 2012, 03:26:30 PM

I insinuate no such thing. Im only speaking of my experiences on other forums.

I cant see how you can believe in original intent and think Obama is an NBC. It makes a joke of the NBC clause.

But too each his own. Its obvious the few here who replied dont agree.  I wont keep banging my head against the wall. I hope at least we can all agree that Obama has to go this November  :cheersmate:

Yup.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: seahorse513 on July 11, 2012, 07:44:25 PM

Yes , we can all agree on that one.....

I ponder, at times, if he lied about his birth, I wonder what other closet skeletons does he have??? :confused:!!!

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: dutch508 on July 11, 2012, 07:48:25 PM

Quote from: seahorse513 on July 11, 2012, 07:44:25 PM

Yes , we can all agree on that one.....

I ponder, at times, if he lied about his birth, I wonder what other closet skeletons does he have??? :confused:!!!

His entire life and everything he has done.

Nothing important.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Duke Nukum on July 11, 2012, 07:50:43 PM

0bama is a composite character in his own life. The literal empty suit.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: Jasonw560 on July 11, 2012, 08:50:34 PM

Quote from: Eupher on July 04, 2012, 06:08:57 PM

Just keep beating that horse, Penrod. Maybe you'll wake it up after it starts rotting.

SCOTUS had their crack at the issue in Dec 08/Jan 09. They did nothing with it. It went nowhere. All your flatulating will not change any of that.

Fixed.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: obumazombie on July 12, 2012, 12:05:25 AM

Quote from: Duke Nukum on July 11, 2012, 07:50:43 PM

0bama is a composite character in his own life. The literal empty suit.

Manchurian candidate.

Title: Re: OBAMA CONFIRMS - NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Post by: vesta111 on July 12, 2012, 08:37:39 AM

Quote from: seahorse513 on July 11, 2012, 07:44:25 PM

Yes , we can all agree on that one.....

I ponder, at times, if he lied about his birth, I wonder what other closet skeletons does he have??? :confused:!!!

SEA, I wonder about duel citizenship to those born on foreign ground to Americans.

How does this work, say an American citizen heads to Kenya and dropped a child there, regardless of the father born in Kenya and now say he is a citizen of Briton just visiting family in Kenya, ------What Nationally is the child   ???

Complicated here, Mother born in America, father born in Kenya but now a citizen of Great Britton.   Very complicated if the Mother when the child is 4 has an Indonesian adopt him, new birth certificate and the child is now a born  to an Indonesian father -----Or the child of an Indonesian male and an American born woman.

Much smoke and mirrors.   I would like to see if in fact the step father ever legally adopted the boy and why the child went back to using Obama as his sir name.

Talk about a dysfunctional family and a mother from hell.