The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Tucker on June 29, 2012, 12:59:19 PM
-
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002870623
stopbush (10,514 posts)
View profile
ACA: What Happens If You Don't Get Insurance, Pay The Penalty Tax, And Then Get Sick?
Are all of your health expenses now out of pocket, or do you get some kind of coverage/offset because you paid a "health tax?"
Suppose you come down with cancer. Do you go out and buy insurance at the point you're diagnosed, or do you just go in for treatments and expect that your expenses are covered by the money paid by the large pool of those with insurance?
What if everyone did that? There wouldn't be enough money for treatment of a common cold.
B2G (904 posts)
10. If it's cheaper to pay the tax
View profile
and you can enroll immediately upon finding out you have a serious illness, what's the motiviation to enroll until then?
cbdo2007 (5,677 posts)
2. You can still go out and get insurance because you can't be excluded....
View profile
Why would you get a coverage offset for something you didn't have?? Taxes are paid at the end of the year so you would be paying it for not having coverage during the previous year. When you get sick, you can just go out and get health insurance and as soon as it becomes effective you can get treatments covered.
snooper2 (13,190 posts)
4. $695 a year or 2.5% of your income, whichever is higher...
View profile
Everybody should know this by now with all the "coverage" LOL
4th law of robotics (1,595 posts)
14. So that's about 60 bucks a month
View profile
seems it would be cheaper to pay the fine and just get insurance when you need it.
progressivebydesign (15,496 posts)
45. that's pretty slimy, actually. I'm sure that they have a way to stop people from being cheaters. n/t
Not with this regime in charge.
alcibiades_mystery (24,609 posts)
11. If you don't have insurance and you "come down with cancer," you go and get insurance, or pay out of
View profile
pocket. You can't be denied insurance for a preexisting condition.
Hoyt (7,239 posts)
47. Whatever, it's kind of disturbing seeing people already trying to game the system.
View profile
We don't have to be like the friggin greedy corporations.
In any event, this is a good step forward on what will be a long fight against all of those trying to screw society -- insurers (who will eventually be squeezed out except maybe to continue administering things like they do now with Medicare and even Medicaid); rethugs; providers; and even beneficiaries/patients who'll try to take advantage of system at expense of others.
The democrat party invented the word greed.
patricia92243 (6,983 posts)
30. What happens if you simply don't pay the tax? Would your paycheck be garnished? Would they put you
View profile
in jail?
B2G (904 posts)
31. My understanding is that the same consequences apply
View profile
as not paying your federal income taxes. You would be subject to garnishment, property seizure and any other nightmares the IRS chooses to inflict upon you.
They are also adding a buttload of IRS agents for enforcement.
Yep! obama just added 20,000 new agents.
Laelth (12,527 posts)
40. You buy insurance as soon as you suspect you are seriously ill.
View profile
Or, it appears to me, that would be the rational economic decision.
No insurance means you're on your own for the bill, but there's scant reason to buy insurance unless you are, in fact, ill. Paying the tax penalty will not count as having purchased insurance.
-Laelth
This is not going to end good.
-
It's amazing... the Democrats and Obama passed a law and nobody has any idea what it actually does.
What a ******* mess.
-
It's amazing... the Democrats and Obama passed a law and nobody has any idea what it actually does.
What a ******* mess.
Bela Pelosi should know.
-
It's amazing... the Democrats and Obama passed a law and nobody has any idea what it actually does.
What a ******* mess.
Yeah but, you can see the little dim bulb lighting up over their heads.
-
Laelth
40. You buy insurance as soon as you suspect you are seriously ill. Or, it appears to me, that would be the rational economic decision.
No insurance means you're on your own for the bill, but there's scant reason to buy insurance unless you are, in fact, ill. Paying the tax penalty will not count as having purchased insurance.
-Laelth
This is why I called this idiot an idiot when he was here.
The policy is subject to you being able to pay the premium. What happens when you can't pay the initial premium? That's right, it's a voided contract. You know the insurance company still gets to ask if you have any preconditions, and they'll price the policy based upon that.
.
-
Umm, what would prevent an insurance company from charging a person with a pre-existing condition say $10,000 a month for an insurance plan?
Do they actually think Physicians are going to be falling all over each other to get on the Governments health exchange plan being offered for the po'folk?
-
http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/vb8vs/eli5_what_exactly_is_obamacare_and_what_did_it/c532iz2
Bob: Hi, insurance company. I'd like to buy some health insurance.
Insurance company: No. You had cancer when you were 3 years old, and the cancer could come back. We're not selling health insurance to you.
Bob: It's not my fault I got cancer when I was three! Besides, that was years ago!
Insurance company: If we sell insurance to you, we'll probably lose money, and we're not doing it.
Bob: But I need insurance more than anyone! My cancer might come back!
Insurance company: We don't care. We're not selling you insurance.
Obama: Hey, that's totally not fair. Bob is right, he does need insurance! Sell Bob some insurance.
Insurance company: If we have to, I guess.
Mary: This is cool. Obama said the insurance company has to sell insurance to anyone who needs it.
Sam: Hey, I have an idea. I'm going to stop paying for health insurance. If I get sick, I can always go buy some insurance then. The insurance company won't be able to say no, because Obama's told them they have to sell it to anyone who needs it!
Dave: that's a great idea! I'm not paying for health insurance either, at least not until I get sick.
Insurance company: Hey! If everyone stops paying for insurance, we'll go bankrupt!
Obama: Oh come on Sam and Dave, that's not fair either.
Dave: I don't care. It saves me money.
Obama: Oh for god's sake. Sam, Dave, you have to keep paying for health insurance, and not wait until you're sick. You too, Mary and Bob.
Mary: But I'm broke! I can't buy insurance! I just don't have any money.
Obama: Mary, show me your piggy bank. Oh, wow, you really are broke. Ok, tell you what. You still have to buy insurance, but I'll help you pay 95% of the cost.
Mary: thank you.
Obama: I need an aspirin.
Insurance company: We're not paying for that aspirin.
-
B2G (904 posts)
I'm going to be arrogant for a moment, I think Beg and I have a fan, B2G looks like the name Beg but also the BG are my screen-name initials :lmao:
-
stopbush (10,514 posts)
View profile
ACA: What Happens If You Don't Get Insurance, Pay The Penalty Tax, And Then Get Sick?
Are all of your health expenses now out of pocket, or do you get some kind of coverage/offset because you paid a "health tax?"
Suppose you come down with cancer. Do you go out and buy insurance at the point you're diagnosed, or do you just go in for treatments and expect that your expenses are covered by the money paid by the large pool of those with insurance?
Why can't I just do that with my car insurance?
-
I'm going to be arrogant for a moment, I think Beg and I have a fan, B2G looks like the name Beg but also the BG are my screen-name initials :lmao:
You're so vain....etc. (don't remember the rest of the song)
-
You're so vain....etc. (don't remember the rest of the song)
:lmao:
-
progressivebydesign (15,496 posts)
45. that's pretty slimy, actually. I'm sure that they have a way to stop people from being cheaters. n/t
Yeah, because with welfare the government has successful shown for years that they can stop people from being cheaters.
-
Yeah, because with welfare the government has successful shown for years that they can stop people from being cheaters.
progressivebydesign's light bulb is burned out.
-
It's amazing... the Democrats and Obama passed a law and nobody has any idea what it actually does.
What a ******* mess.
Isn't that the truth. Just wandering amongst the threads on the island, there's so much contradictory information being spewed about, as well as errors of ommission and commission, on top of wishful thinking, which then leads to squabbles (of course).
It is a damned mess.
Why do DUmbasses and other assorted communists always ignore human nature? People are devising schemes right now about how to game the system. Some are formulating ways to get rich.
-
Nothing says better and less expensive health care like 20,000 extra unionized IRS agents.
-
Nothing says better and less expensive health care like 20,000 extra unionized IRS agents.
Do they get guns? The EPA got them.
-
Be careful what they wish for.
-
Nothing says better and less expensive health care like 20,000 extra unionized IRS agents.
And they answer to no one.
-
kelly1mm (1,868 posts)
54. I think the most gaming of the system will be from people like me. I will retire early
when I can get the medicaid for free at 133% of poverty level. I am now 41 so I will retire in two years at 43. My house/farm is paid for already and my non-tax deferred accounts generate about $17k per year in dividends/interest so my wife and I would just barely qualify. No debt at all, grow most of our own food, well, solar panels so our cost of living is about 12k per year. We had been talking about retiring early but the cost of health care was always the big stumbling block.
"Free." In the writeups I've been looking at, it seems they're trying to shove a lot of people into Medicaid. Too bad hardly any doctors accept it. I've not seen this mentioned at the DUmp at all today.
-
DUmbasses don't realize that 'can't be denied for preexisting conditions' doesn't mean 'can't be automatically billed at top tier rates for preexisting condition' or that one 'must carry insurance for X months before full coverage of preexisting condition kicks in'
It also doesn't mean 'must carry ins for X months unless a qualifying event occurs, else pay a penalty for early opt-out' doesn't apply either.
Nor does it mean you can grab insurance outside of open season " just because ".
BTW primitives. I live in Massachusetts, the land of "Romneycare". I know exactly what I'm talking about here.
-
progressivebydesign (15,496 posts)
45. that's pretty slimy, actually. I'm sure that they have a way to stop people from being cheaters. n/t
One person's 'Slimy' is another person's 'Own best economic interest' or 'Rational economic choice,' you damned morons, it's the very principle on which your blue-collar and minority GOTV drives are based. Your blindness to the obvious consequences of your party's platform policies might be sad, or laughable, if you weren't pulling the rest of us into a commode-circling maelstrom of ruin right along with you.
:censored: :banghead: :censored:
-
... or that one 'must carry insurance for X months before full coverage of preexisting condition kicks in'.
That's true, too. Most healthcare plans have a 90 day elimination period. This just keeps getting worse for the freeloaders.
.
-
That's true, too. Most healthcare plans have a 90 day elimination period. This just keeps getting worse for the freeloaders.
.
I've seen some that were 12 months.
-
That's true, too. Most healthcare plans have a 90 day elimination period. This just keeps getting worse for the freeloaders.
.
Indeed. All of the crap they are spewing has already been battletested here. None of it works. NONE OF IT.
The only change is that a person with a preexisting condition can't be denied. Nothing else involving all the other rules in signing up with a healthcare provider have been altered other than a cap on company profits and continuing coverage until age 26 for dependents.
-
I've seen some that were 12 months.
Orthodontic work has a 24 month wait on most dental plans. Signing up at the last minute to get your kid braces isn't going to work, DUmmies.
-
This is going to grow into a giant cluster**** that will eclipse welfare in the total amount attributed to fraud.
-
This is a post from another board that points to what we are in for.
It would be one thing if it were a popular reform. It is not. The people who might like or love the Affordable Care Act already do. If someone has not made up their mind up at this point, they never will. On the other hand, the opposition to this law will flare up. The goodies have already been handed out, such as pre-existing medical conditions being covered and keeping a kid on until they are 26. Those and other relatively small things come before the Fish Oil was administered. A free annual medical exam under Medicare will not be of much value if almost no doctor outside of a ghetto clinic will take it. With the expected demise of Medicare Advantage, one is stuck with whatever overpriced plan AARP or some other cares to offer. The elderly and handicapped will often find themselves too well off for Medicaid, while still being too poor to afford a necessary Medicare supplement. Even under President Obama's plan when it is fully rolled out, you would have to make less than $15k annually as an individual. to qualify for enhanced Medicaid. Assuming that the minimum wage is around $9.50 an hour by then, you would be making $19,760 a year if you worked full time. Also, do not think that the employer will pick up the tab for your healthcare. The maximum $2k penalty an employer would have to pay would be far cheaper than furnishing the coverage to an employee. In essence, it is an employment tax that furnishes not direct benefit to the employee. The cheapest self-insurance thatt would be legal in 2014 to offer would run you $500 a month today. I foresee more automation, outsourcing, and the increased use of part-time workers in the future. It would have actually been less of a mess if they had gone with a Single Payer scheme. As it stands, you get the worst of all worlds.
-
Orthodontic work has a 24 month wait on most dental plans. Signing up at the last minute to get your kid braces isn't going to work, DUmmies.
I don't think BarryCare covers teefs.
-
This is a post from another board that points to what we are in for.
Well....there's your problem!!!
-
A free annual medical exam under Medicare will not be of much value if almost no doctor outside of a ghetto clinic will take it.
My free wellness exam only cost 100.00 for lab fee's to cover the blood work from an outside clinic plus an additional 80.00 to the Dr.
My Dr. closed his in house lab earlier this year.
He doesn't accept any medicaid patients.
-
My free wellness exam only cost 100.00 for lab fee's to cover the blood work from an outside clinic plus an additional 80.00 to the Dr.
My Dr. closed his in house lab earlier this year.
He doesn't accept any medicaid patients.
I tried to switch over to my wife's doc. We're both on Medicare/Tricare. He gave me an appointment 1yr, 8 mo. out.
-
You're so vain....etc. (don't remember the rest of the song)
I found an acoustic version that sounds pretty good--from 2009 . . .
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTzv8Nkcgks[/youtube]
-
I don't think BarryCare covers teefs.
Den how in da hizzy ama gonna get me a Trayvon grill, yo ?
-
I'm going to be arrogant for a moment, I think Beg and I have a fan, B2G looks like the name Beg but also the BG are my screen-name initials :lmao:
I believe you are right.
B2B looks like BEG, and Ballygirl=B G.
Plus, there are 2 of you. That means B2G=BEG+Ballygirl!
Gee, math is easy! :lmao: :lmao:
-
I believe you are right.
B2B looks like BEG, and Ballygirl=B G.
Plus, there are 2 of you. That means B2G=BEG+Ballygirl!
Gee, math is easy! :lmao: :lmao:
YAY for potaonomics !!!1!!! :lmao:
Every time I see the handle B2G, I immediately think of the song Back 2 Good by Matchbox Twenty.
-
It's amazing... the Democrats and Obama passed a law and nobody has any idea what it actually does.
What a ******* mess.
That's because the DUmmies heard free and stopped right there.
-
DUmbasses don't realize that 'can't be denied for preexisting conditions' doesn't mean 'can't be automatically billed at top tier rates for preexisting condition' or that one 'must carry insurance for X months before full coverage of preexisting condition kicks in'
It also doesn't mean 'must carry ins for X months unless a qualifying event occurs, else pay a penalty for early opt-out' doesn't apply either.
Nor does it mean you can grab insurance outside of open season " just because ".
BTW primitives. I live in Massachusetts, the land of "Romneycare". I know exactly what I'm talking about here.
MA does not have the mandate where pre-existing conditions are covered if you have a lapse in insurance.
-
Questions:
1 - How does the penalty apply if you only have insurance for part of a year or most of a year? will it be pro-rated?
2 - How do we prove we do/don't have insurance. Will they have a national database with names of people on insurance rolls? Will we have to send a copy of our insurance cards?
3 - My son is 21; but pays his own income taxes, and he does not have insurance (he CAN get it where he works, but chooses not to). I can't afford the family plan on my insurance. So which of us will get penalized on our taxes since he is under the 26 year old threshold?
Thanks
-
Questions:
1 - How does the penalty apply if you only have insurance for part of a year or most of a year? will it be pro-rated?
2 - How do we prove we do/don't have insurance. Will they have a national database with names of people on insurance rolls? Will we have to send a copy of our insurance cards?
3 - My son is 21; but pays his own income taxes, and he does not have insurance (he CAN get it where he works, but chooses not to). I can't afford the family plan on my insurance. So which of us will get penalized on our taxes since he is under the 26 year old threshold?
Thanks
1. Yes
2. Yes & yes
3. If both of you have money both of you will be penalized. You must understand, your paying for your son's ins. is a great benefit.
-
1. Yes
2. Yes & yes
3. If both of you have money both of you will be penalized. You must understand, your paying for your son's ins. is a great benefit.
Thanks for those answers. My son has only been to the doctor once in the past three years. He's only been sick enough to call in from work ONE day in the last two years. Right now it's cheaper to spring for a doctor's visit than to pay insurance all year. I also realize I'm taking a chance that something major won't happen to him...I'm praying it doesn't. He's never had a broken bone (neither have I, for that matter).
-
Thanks for those answers. My son has only been to the doctor once in the past three years. He's only been sick enough to call in from work ONE day in the last two years. Right now it's cheaper to spring for a doctor's visit than to pay insurance all year. I also realize I'm taking a chance that something major won't happen to him...I'm praying it doesn't. He's never had a broken bone (neither have I, for that matter).
Your family sounds atypical. Many other folks are more than unhappy ABM is attaching their parasite kids to their insurance policy.
-
Your family sounds atypical. Many other folks are more than unhappy ABM is attaching their parasite kids to their insurance policy.
It's not fair, I couldn't be on my parents insurance when I was 25 and going to school, I am owed a year of insurance on my parents dime now. :-)
-
Your family sounds atypical. Many other folks are more than unhappy ABM is attaching their parasite kids to their insurance policy.
I know...but it's not mandatory...right? I think that if my 21 year old has a job that offers insurance HE should be responsible for it. And I was on my own at 18...no longer living under my parents' roof. Does coverage until 26 still apply if the child is no longer a dependent?
-
I know...but it's not mandatory...right? I think that if my 21 year old has a job that offers insurance HE should be responsible for it. And I was on my own at 18...no longer living under my parents' roof. Does coverage until 26 still apply if the child is no longer a dependent?
It should be easy to find it's not like the bill is over 2000 pages. :-)
That's what really stinks about this bill, no one knows for sure, it was passed and we still don't know what's in it. :banghead:
My guess is you putting him on is optional so he would face the penalty non tax, tax.
-
I know...but it's not mandatory...right? I think that if my 21 year old has a job that offers insurance HE should be responsible for it. And I was on my own at 18...no longer living under my parents' roof. Does coverage until 26 still apply if the child is no longer a dependent?
If he has his own coverage, I doubt it would be a problem. My answers were pretty much in jest. But, remember what Will Rodgers said. "Any time Congress makes a joke it's a law & any time they make a law it's a joke."
-
I just thought of another one. What if you have a dependent under 26 that has a child? Will the "dependent" or the grandparent be responsible for the baby's insurance?
-
I just thought of another one. What if you have a dependent under 26 that has a child? Will the "dependent" or the grandparent be responsible for the baby's insurance?
Refer to page 1846 of the bill.
-
I believe you are right.
B2B looks like BEG, and Ballygirl=B G.
Plus, there are 2 of you. That means B2G=BEG+Ballygirl!
Gee, math is easy! :lmao: :lmao:
:lmao:
-
Refer to page 1846 of the bill.
:-)
-
Thanks for those answers. My son has only been to the doctor once in the past three years. He's only been sick enough to call in from work ONE day in the last two years. Right now it's cheaper to spring for a doctor's visit than to pay insurance all year. I also realize I'm taking a chance that something major won't happen to him...I'm praying it doesn't. He's never had a broken bone (neither have I, for that matter).
You have insurance not because of the low co-pays, you have insurance in case of catastrophic illness. It was burned into my head at a young age to make sure I have insurance. Your son needs to realize he's not immune from illness, we've seen a kid at 22 who had a massive stroke, a young girl of 17 with ovarian cancer, and a 14 year old girl with a malignant brain tumor, and so on.
-
I can't afford the family plan on my insurance. So which of us will get penalized on our taxes since he is under the 26 year old threshold?
This is something Romney and the Republicans are going to HAVE to address. They have to have something to replace it with. Family plans are VERY expensive. My wife has one at her work and I have one at mine. If I got on hers or vice versa it's 2-3 times as much as us just keeping our own plans. They can't JUST run on repealing Obamacare. No one in their right mind thinks there's nothing wrong with health insurance. Many of us believe that the problem is TOO much governmental involvement. Remove the restrictions on state to state. IIRC, and maybe some of you Bamastanians can back me up here, Alabama only has one for the entire state, BC/BS. Well hell, if that is the case, where is the competition? Also tort reform needs to come into play. You get turned into a woman during a botched circumcision, you deserve millions. You lose the tip of your pinkie? Here's 25 grand. Hell, I'll give you mine right now for 25K. I don't need it. I have 7 other fingers. The reason healthcare is so expensive is the same reason school is so expensive, too much f'n government involvement.
-
Why can't I just do that with my car insurance?
That's coming. Here in California, they are preparing legislation that will limit damages to collect against uninsured drivers to allow whatever the state determines is a "fair settlement" in which the state coughs up the balance. Talk about ripe for major destruction of the auto insurance industry!
-
That's coming. Here in California, they are preparing legislation that will limit damages to collect against uninsured drivers to allow whatever the state determines is a "fair settlement" in which the state coughs up the balance. Talk about ripe for major destruction of the auto insurance industry!
I would think insurance companies could say screw you to California and just pull out of the state.
-
MA does not have the mandate where pre-existing conditions are covered if you have a lapse in insurance.
No, it doesn't - but all of the ways to cheat the system have already been addressed. At this time, the uninsured/underinsured do what they have always done - clog up emergency rooms.
-
No, it doesn't - but all of the ways to cheat the system have already been addressed. At this time, the uninsured/underinsured do what they have always done - clog up emergency rooms.
In Atlanta, if they don't have a car and want to visit a a friend downtown, they call complaining about chest pains. When they get to Grady, they head to where their friends stay.
-
You have insurance not because of the low co-pays, you have insurance in case of catastrophic illness. It was burned into my head at a young age to make sure I have insurance. Your son needs to realize he's not immune from illness, we've seen a kid at 22 who had a massive stroke, a young girl of 17 with ovarian cancer, and a 14 year old girl with a malignant brain tumor, and so on.
Bingo, I currently have what is essentially catastrophic insurance. I pay out of pocket up to a certain limit, and then the insurance kicks in. It is basically a safeguard against bankruptcy if something major, like a car accident, happens.
Low copays are nice, but knowing that I won't lose everything in a medical emergency is nicer.
-
Bingo, I currently have what is essentially catastrophic insurance. I pay out of pocket up to a certain limit, and then the insurance kicks in. It is basically a safeguard against bankruptcy if something major, like a car accident, happens.
Low copays are nice, but knowing that I won't lose everything in a medical emergency is nicer.
Unfortunately your type of plan won't meet the HHS standards.