The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: SSG Snuggle Bunny on June 12, 2012, 10:02:27 AM
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"The GOP is too mean so there's no reason for us to play nice" continues to advance.
kentuck (61,679 posts)
A Memo to the Tea Partiers:
(If we were able to have a sensible discussion with the Tea Partiers, could we make any progress?)
Could we just lay down our flags and our arms and talk about the facts ?
Could we stop the yelling and the name-calling long enough to listen to each side's argument?
First of all, any rational person would have to admit that the economy was in the toilet when Barack Obama took office? Indeed, it was the worst downturn since the Great Depression. Also, it is not rational or logical to expect the present budget to be balanced when the present President inherited a deficit of $1.2 trillion dollars to start with, along with a crashing stock market and banking system, with a jobs market losing over 700,000 jobs per month. We were in a deep, deep hole. That is a reality we cannot ignore.
Also, Mitt Romney is proposing taxcuts larger than those of George W Bush. Some estimates are as high as $5 trillion dollars in tax cuts. What will those do to the debt and deficits? Let's be honest with ourselves. We know that will not work. Why should we not question the motives? We have seen the results of Mitt Romney's policies. They are the same as George W Bush's, except worse.
I am willing to admit that Barack Obama could have done a lot of things differently. His healthcare plan and his stimulus could have been much different. But, it may not have passed at all? Not only did he have Republican opposition but he had bi-partisan opposition in some instances.
Now, I am ready to listen to your argument. Let's try to stick to the facts and come to an agreement. Make your best argument. You have the floor.
Government gets its money from taxes. Every road crew and firefighter is paid by taking a percentage of money from people who produce. As nice as roads and fire trucks are they cannot exist outside of this scheme.
Kidnapping ever larger swathes of the economy through rent-seeking companies like Solyndra or outright takeovers like ObamaCoup or regulatory capture like what the EPA is pulling with fracking stifles the economy's ability to generate the activity from which tax revenue is derived.
Vilifying profit only adds to this mess. Why study and work hard if the result is to be treated like a criminal? Worse actually, as you loons coddle crooks and drug addicts.
Nobody wants dirty water and dumb children. Until you can stop with your lies and face honest truth you will be stymied and rightfully so. Economic law that conservatives use to guide policy aren't wishful thinking like socialism. It is based on thousands of years of observed fact. Socialism thinks it can flout this observation of human nature for a pie-in-the-sky fantasy of everybody sharing when some people obviously desire more, some less, some want without working and others don't serve what they have.
You cannot make life fair. As soon as you try life will kick you in the balls.
kentuck (61,679 posts)
2. So you're saying...?
They are not intelligent enough to have a discussion?
It's just a waste of time and effort?
That's what you want.
How many DUers are shouted down with "That's just a RW talking point!"
If you idiots could dialogue you would. Instead you use ad hominems to igonore what you cannot refute.
Case in point:
The Magistrate (77,925 posts)
4. Pretty Much, Sir
They are not moved by anything reachable by reason. Their expressed views are simply attempts to express racism and varieties of paranoiac delusion in respectable terms. Denial of evident realities is not just the method but the point of their discourse.
Come back here and say that, *****.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002799368
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Hey Kentuck, Come on over and register here at CC. We will listen to your views and respect them as long as you respect our point of view. Even if we agree to disagree. Over here you will not get banned for a different view point.
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Keep telling yourself that we aren't intelligent enough to know what is best for ourselves. :loser:
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Hey Kentuck, Come on over and register here at CC. We will listen to your views and respect them as long as you respect our point of view. Even if we agree to disagree. Over here you will not get banned for a different view point.
I submitted my rejoinder in the OP.
If it is anything other than unseen I'll be amazed. But even if it is seen it will be ignored. If it isn't ignored it will be unacknowledged. If it is acknowledged it will be waved off with a dismissive, "too ignorant/blind/stupid/racist/uneducated."
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"Could we just lay down our flags and our arms and talk about the facts ? "
I smell a rat.
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Now, I am ready to listen to your argument. Let's try to stick to the facts and come to an agreement. Make your best argument. You have the floor.
:lmao: No we don't, idiot. We're not allowed over there. If you want one, read the first reply here to your post. Can't be beat.
Anyone notice how Kentuck misplaces question marks? It gives his writing style a certain unconfidence.
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The Magistrate (77,925 posts)
4. Pretty Much, Sir
They are not moved by anything reachable by reason. Their expressed views are simply attempts to express racism and varieties of paranoiac delusion in respectable terms. Denial of evident realities is not just the method but the point of their discourse.
And here we are stomping political holes in your asses. What does that say about you, DUmmie?
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I was reading this thread on the island and wondered if anyone had seen it yet and brought it over.
Everyone of us could refute the things said in the bluegrass primitives post, and we do it here everyday. However, I see no point in restating them here. Now the primitives will claim it's because I can't, but that's not the case, I just don't have the time to waste on someone I know won't listen anyway.
Suffice it to say this: In the last four years gas prices have doubled, real unemployment has been in the 12%+ range, food continues to increase in cost, etc... You say things will be worse under Romney than Obama, I say I'm willing to take that chance.
A lot of you primitives thought things would be getting better under Dear Leader. Four years ago you were claiming that the economic conditions under which we are currently living would never be this bad, even with Congressional opposition. OTOH, I knew they would be bad and made preparations. Many of you are living hand-to-mouth because you foolishly believed in the snake oil Obama sold you. If Obama retains the prez in 2012, things will not get any better, and I still have a plan to be OK. Liberals living hand-to-mouth will only get more desperate, and liberals on the verge of living hand-to-mouth will slip into that realm, if not worse.
So in a choice between keeping someone in office I know will only make things worse (Obama) and getting someone new in that could right the ship (Romney), I'll go with the chance to get things right (Romney) over certain and proven incompetency (Obama).
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I was reading this thread on the island and wondered if anyone had seen it yet and brought it over.
Everyone of us could refute the things said in the bluegrass primitives post, and we do it here everyday. However, I see no point in restating them here. Now the primitives will claim it's because I can't, but that's not the case, I just don't have the time to waste on someone I know won't listen anyway.
Suffice it to say this: In the last four years gas prices have doubled, real unemployment has been in the 12%+ range, food continues to increase in cost, etc... You say things will be worse under Romney than Obama, I say I'm willing to take that chance.
A lot of you primitives thought things would be getting better under Dear Leader. Four years ago you were claiming that the economic conditions under which we are currently living would never be this bad, even with Congressional opposition. OTOH, I knew they would be bad and made preparations. Many of you are living hand-to-mouth because you foolishly believed in the snake oil Obama sold you. If Obama retains the prez in 2012, things will not get any better, and I still have a plan to be OK. Liberals living hand-to-mouth will only get more desperate, and liberals on the verge of living hand-to-mouth will slip into that realm, if not worse.
So in a choice between keeping someone in office I know will only make things worse (Obama) and getting someone new in that could right the ship (Romney), I'll go with the chance to get things right (Romney) over certain and proven incompetency (Obama).
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Your last paragraph could stand all on its' own and merit you multiple H5s. So, I gave you the one I can give you now.
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002799368Tue Jun 12, 2012, 10:25 AM
kentuck (61,688 posts)
A Memo to the Tea Partiers:
(If we were able to have a sensible discussion with the Tea Partiers, could we make any progress?)
Could we just lay down our flags and our arms and talk about the facts ?
Could we stop the yelling and the name-calling long enough to listen to each side's argument?
First of all, any rational person would have to admit that the economy was in the toilet when Barack Obama took office? Indeed, it was the worst downturn since the Great Depression. Also, it is not rational or logical to expect the present budget to be balanced when the present President inherited a deficit of $1.2 trillion dollars to start with, along with a crashing stock market and banking system, with a jobs market losing over 700,000 jobs per month. We were in a deep, deep hole. That is a reality we cannot ignore.
Also, Mitt Romney is proposing taxcuts larger than those of George W Bush. Some estimates are as high as $5 trillion dollars in tax cuts. What will those do to the debt and deficits? Let's be honest with ourselves. We know that will not work. Why should we not question the motives? We have seen the results of Mitt Romney's policies. They are the same as George W Bush's, except worse.
I am willing to admit that Barack Obama could have done a lot of things differently. His healthcare plan and his stimulus could have been much different. But, it may not have passed at all? Not only did he have Republican opposition but he had bi-partisan opposition in some instances.
Now, I am ready to listen to your argument. Let's try to stick to the facts and come to an agreement. Make your best argument. You have the floor.
Dear kentuck,
It is your side that engages in namecalling. Remember Chimpy McCokespoon? Huh? Do ya? Don't go running behind Obama's skirt, like posting this crap at DU either.
First of all, yeah, we were in a world of hurt. However, President Bush had already secured the needed package for the banking sector. President Obama used the, shall we call it fear, in the economic situation to hijack gerneral motors, violate contract law, and deliver the company bound and gagged to it's union, and pass a truly enormous payoff to his supporters that was hardly disguised a stimulus bill that wound up stimulating nothing. Then he wasted nearly two years forcing a healthcare bill that only guarantees higher costs and less service. An astute politician wouldn't have wasted time on that.
Second, Mitt Romney has taken a long look as a businessman and realized that we can not achieve competitiveness when we have the world's worst tax structure. Obama looks at the same problem, then blames automation and business men for creating a problem.
He had no Republican support because he made no effort to include their ideas. He guaranteed his own hardened opposition.
Yours,
Vagabond
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Can't use the "N" word. Can't use the "C" word. Can't use the "B" word. That only leaves me the "F" word, the "U", and name calling.
Well what do you know! Even with those strict limitations this still sounds like any other discuss with the liberal elite.
F U DUMMIE.
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Your last paragraph could stand all on its' own and merit you multiple H5s. So, I gave you the one I can give you now.
Second the motion. Very succinct
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Second the motion. Very succinct
I love succinct. It makes it easier to find words to ban.
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Also, Mitt Romney is proposing taxcuts larger than those of George W Bush. Some estimates are as high as $5 trillion dollars in tax cuts. What will those do to the debt and deficits? Let's be honest with ourselves. We know that will not work. Why should we not question the motives? We have seen the results of Mitt Romney's policies. They are the same as George W Bush's, except worse.
Your embedded assumptions are annoying, Kentuck. Tax cuts are GOOD for the economy. Not only did the Bush tax cuts give us 7 years of a terrific economy, but, in fact, the rates, across the board, should be lower still. The 2008 crash had exactly ZERO to do with tax rates and everything to do with an overpriced housing market and far too much securitization of bad debt, until there was no one left to buy up that bad debt but, oh, guess who, the TAXPAYERS OF THIS COUNTRY. But, to use your condescending sort of language, even you can admit that it isn't a lack of revenue that has given us deficits and debt beyond reason, it's borrowing and spending. That's obvious--the recent explosive increase in the debt far, FAR exceeds combined revenues taken in over the last 3 years, and the meager amount of revenue you'd stea--excuse me, tax--from the "rich" wouldn't do a damned thing to lower that debt, even if it was ethical to take from the more fortunate among us for the sake of the macroeconomy, which it is not.
But the fact that it is borrowing and spending that have put us in this pickle and not too little revenue is indisputable, and until you can face that truth, there's nothing to be gained in any "dialogue" between you and your kind and us. Nor is there any purpose to our "dialoguing" until you can admit, in principle, that it is WRONG for the federal government to CONFISCATE people's wealth through taxation, EVEN in service of a presumed greater good. It so happens, though, that NO greater good would be served by soaking the rich with taxes, anyway.
So let's start with you admitting we have a borrowing and spending problem, not a revenue problem, that no amount of increased taxation can do anything to reduce the debt, and that your desire to take more from the wealthy is nothing more than pointless envy and vindictiveness.
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Your last paragraph could stand all on its' own and merit you multiple H5s. So, I gave you the one I can give you now.
And, I was able to give you another just now. :cheersmate: :hi5:
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I'm still waiting for 0bama to focus "like a laser" on the economy. When 0bama took office the economy was in trouble but it was not nearly as bad as he made it and the biggest mistake Bush made (which 0bama doubled...and then some down on ON PURPOSE) was funding the bailout. It was so far from conservative economic policy it was ridiculous. Nothing is too big to fail. In our capitalist system a vacuum is always, always filled by a more successful company. But instead, 0bama decided to be the king of "too big to fail". The debt he inherited was one HE voted for, sat in special (photo op) meetings at the White House to help shape the legislation and piled on his own failed stimulus packages to further harm the country.
I do know, no conversation can ever happen until you quit being so gullible. People in Hollywood who say pretty words and live in gated communities don't care about you. The "rich" like George Soros & Warren Buffet don't care about you and have no intention of paying more taxes. Why else would Buffet be fighting the IRS? The only way to insure everyone pays their "fair" share is a flat tax or fair tax but you won't even entertain that thought because it's not based on punishing people.
Tax hikes will never, ever generate enough revenue to pay down the debt and taking money out of the economy, laundering it through the government...where a good portion of it never leaves...then a smaller percentage of that is put BACK into the economy. How does it help to take money out of the private sector where jobs are created (jobs that are needed in order to pay for government workers and programs) then put less than half back into the economic engine that funds the government.
In the last election some of the boy king's biggest donors were "big banks" and large corporations...you know the evil 1%: Goldman Sachs (2nd largest donor), Microsoft, Google (CEO has now renounced his citizenship and living abroad to avoid taxes), JP Morgan Chase, Citigroup, Time Warner, IBM Corp, GE, Morgan Stanley...there are so many lobbyist/czars in his administration it's like a who's who of DC insiders and millionaires...and the richest people in government are democrats...so until you're ready to clean your own house you have no business telling us what you think we should believe.
So come on over. We aren't welcome in your online home, but you're welcome to come here to ours. If you truly want to discuss this and you aren't just pandering to your DU buddies in a typical, bash conservatives & pat each other on the back threads. You can even bring friends if you're afraid to come alone. I dare you. Of course you guys do have these little love fests with each other and they never go anywhere so maybe you're just blowing hot air?
Cindie
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So come on over. We aren't welcome in your online home, but you're welcome to come here to ours. If you truly want to discuss this and you aren't just pandering to your DU buddies in a typical, bash conservatives & pat each other on the back threads. You can even bring friends if you're afraid to come alone. I dare you. Of course you guys do have these little love fests with each other and they never go anywhere so maybe you're just blowing hot air?
Cindie
HA!
Kentuck got called-out by a girl.
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HA!
Kentuck got called-out by a girl.
Kentuck is a guy? It's really hard to tell over there.
cindie
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Ya know, I wish they would learn about what the Tea Party is before they run their mouth about it. I swear they only know what MSNBC has told them.
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Ya know, I wish they would learn about what the Tea Party is before they run their mouth about it. I swear they only know what MSNBC has told them.
They know.
They tell things things to each other to insulate and reinforce each other.
It's simultaneously primal scream therapy and whispered disinformation campaign.
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They know.
They tell things things to each other to insulate and reinforce each other.
It's simultaneously primal scream therapy and whispered disinformation campaign.
But most of the people who say shit about the Tea Party praise the OWS. What a bunch of morons.
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Hey kentuck -
I added a quote to the bottom of my signature from a certain 'special' someone.. Once you address that, then I'd be happy to continue.
So, What happened ?
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kentuck (61,679 posts)
blah, blah, blah
Kentuck,
Who is John Galt?