The Conservative Cave
Current Events => General Discussion => Topic started by: Gina on May 30, 2012, 10:26:58 AM
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http://warincontext.org/2012/02/06/israel-firster-sheldon-adelson-regrets-serving-in-u-s-instead-of-israeli-military/
NBC reports Newt Gingrich’s leading backer, Sheldon Adelson, speaking in Israel in 2010, said:
I am not Israeli, the uniform that I wore in the military unfortunately was not an Israeli uniform, it was an American uniform, although my wife was in the IDF, and one of my daughters was in the IDF, and my two little boys — our two little boys one of whom will be bar mitzvahed tomorrow… hopefully he’ll come back [to Israel], his hobby is shooting and he’ll come back and be a sniper for the IDF.
“All we care about is being good Zionists, being good citizens of Israel, because even though I am not Israeli born, Israel is in my heart,†he said toward the end of his talk.
Libs are having a cream fest
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Kind of a so-what at this point. Really kind of a so-what even when Gingrich was a candidate. I don't think there is much chance of him being Romney's VP pick anyway, at the point he abandoned his own campaign he didn't have any bargaining chips left.
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I am actually okay with what he said. He is putting God over country. He served honorably and at least he did serve and didn't return and call his fellow soldiers murders like Kerry. They are digging so deep they are losing skin :panic:
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I am actually okay with what he said. He is putting God over country.
Yeah, so did Major Hasan. I'm not okay with it, if you can't put your own country first you have no business bearing arms for it, and should move to a place more to your liking instead. However, the idiocy about holding candidates accountable for everything everyone who donated to them says is a stupid gotcha game, unless it's clear the candidate himself or herself is also a nutter, radical, has a non-American agenda, or whatever.
On edit, the oaths sworn by Soldiers:
Enlisted:
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).
Officer:
"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God." (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)
Emphasis supplied by me, oaths C&P'd from the Army Center for Military History page FAQ.
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If he can't keep an oath what good is his word to God?
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I know yall are going to hate me but I love Israel and isn't it Family, God, and Country? It's okay. yall still love me :p
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I know yall are going to hate me but I love Israel and isn't it Family, God, and Country? It's okay. yall still love me :p
I find no fault with your premise. I would expect, as an example, an Army chaplain to invoke moral citations to prevent a war crime ordered by an officer, even though the oath of enlistment *seems* to give precedence to the officer.
However, that doesn't mean Mr. Adelson hasn't erred in his remarks and intentions. Mr. Adelson took an oath. Either he meant it or he did not.
He would not have been a hypocrite for saying, "I love America and I proudly remember my service but my conscience tells me the greater need today is the defense of Israel and I am proud my family defends her even as we recommit ourselves to America's highest ideals."
He chose to say just the opposite.
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Yeah, so did Major Hasan.
And Adelson murdered...whom?
I agree with Gina on this. At least the country he would have preferred to have served with is one of the good guys, and full of people who actually, genuinely like Americans. I agree that the US should have been first in his heart, but it makes no sense to compare him to a murderous terrorist, because he isn't one.
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And Adelson murdered...whom?
I agree with Gina on this. At least the country he would have preferred to have served with is one of the good guys, and full of people who actually, genuinely like Americans. I agree that the US should have been first in his heart, but it makes no sense to compare him to a murderous terrorist, because he isn't one.
So how do you feel about the convicted spy, Pollard?
National security is based on capabilities, not present intentions, of other countries, Israel included. 'Good guys' is an entirely relative thing, the Finns were 'good guys' in 1939 and 'bad guys' in 1942, without changing anything fundamental about themselves. Same with the Commies in 1943 vs. 1948. There are 'Allies,' 'Enemies,' and 'Neutrals' in international defense, and allies are often just as dirty as the enemies. If Israel thought it was in their best interests to f*ck us, they'd do it in a heartbeat. Since nobody else, at least nobody else with any resources and a UN Security Council permanent seat, gives them the same level of unquestioning support we do, it just isn't in their own current best interests to do that for the foreseeable future.
Let's extend this principle, how would all you hard-over Protestants with a mystical attachment to Israel feel if the guy was a Catholic and said the same thing about the Pope and Vatican? Most of you would be shitting sharp-edged bricks.
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I'm very pro-Israel but everythiing DAT says is true.
That doesn't diminish my view of Israel as an ally but I'm not going to be naive either.
I'm sure the Rosenbergs had a moral justification for their actions too, even if it were in support of godless communism...the godlessness of which I'm sure they saw as one of its superlative virtues.
Any nation would **** any other nation to advance its own interests. You can say that's Wrong but if you read your own Bible, Right doesn't govern this world.
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So how do you feel about the convicted spy, Pollard?
National security is based on capabilities, not present intentions, of other countries, Israel included. 'Good guys' is an entirely relative thing, the Finns were 'good guys' in 1939 and 'bad guys' in 1942, without changing anything fundamental about themselves. Same with the Commies in 1943 vs. 1948. There are 'Allies,' 'Enemies,' and 'Neutrals' in international defense, and allies are often just as dirty as the enemies. If Israel thought it was in their best interests to f*ck us, they'd do it in a heartbeat. Since nobody else, at least nobody else with any resources and a UN Security Council permanent seat, gives them the same level of unquestioning support we do, it just isn't in their own current best interests to do that for the foreseeable future.
Let's extend this principle, how would all you hard-over Protestants with a mystical attachment to Israel feel if the guy was a Catholic and said the same thing about the Pope and Vatican? Most of you would be shitting sharp-edged bricks.
I'm curious--why do you feel like bringing Pollard into this? I thought this thread was about Adelson. Is it because Adelson didn’t fit the trope you were devising here, you saw that comparing a guy who merely spoke to a mass murderer didn't work and you needed a handy someone to blame with some negative connection to Israel from the US's standpoint, any negative connection? That’s a rhetorical question.
It’s also interesting to me that you expanded this discussion into a discussion of Israel in general, and not Adelson—I brought up Israel itself only to show that, at least, he selected an ally. And, at most, he’s guilty of having violated his American soldier’s oath in his heart, ie, “mental reservations.†But you couldn’t leap fast enough to conflate Adelson with an Islamic terrorist.
By your same reasoning, then the US would do the same to Israel in a heartbeat. ****s them over. And so would the UK, or any other country in the world. Seems to me you’re looking for any way to make Israel into a leech and not a friend. Do you have a particular reason for wanting to do so? Or can I take it that that is just your sincere belief? And I'd hardly call US support of Israel "unquestioning."
I’m not a Protestant.
The whole religion-thing in the last paragraph is an apple to the orange of this story. You yourself said this was about national security and national interests, and in that venue neither the Vatican nor Protestantism generally wield the slightest power in the modern day.
But please, say more. I find this extremely interesting. I like to get to know the sorts of people I’m grouped with by association on a political forum. It’s just good to know what kind of person you’re dealing with, don’t you think?
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So how do you feel about the convicted spy, Pollard?
National security is based on capabilities, not present intentions, of other countries, Israel included. 'Good guys' is an entirely relative thing, the Finns were 'good guys' in 1939 and 'bad guys' in 1942, without changing anything fundamental about themselves. Same with the Commies in 1943 vs. 1948. There are 'Allies,' 'Enemies,' and 'Neutrals' in international defense, and allies are often just as dirty as the enemies. If Israel thought it was in their best interests to f*ck us, they'd do it in a heartbeat. Since nobody else, at least nobody else with any resources and a UN Security Council permanent seat, gives them the same level of unquestioning support we do, it just isn't in their own current best interests to do that for the foreseeable future.
Let's extend this principle, how would all you hard-over Protestants with a mystical attachment to Israel feel if the guy was a Catholic and said the same thing about the Pope and Vatican? Most of you would be shitting sharp-edged bricks.
I would only let it pass if it was Israel. Don't get that wrong. And I am a Methodist. :bird:
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I'm with DAT and the bunny. Also, there are American-hating assholes in Israel. I support them because I feel they're in the right, not because they love me as an American. What he said is kind of a slap in the face to the US military.
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Pollard acted in his own best interests, just as Adelson has done and presumably will continue to do.
Israel will and does act in her best interests. This is seen by Netanyahu's own spoken support of Pollard, who renounced his American citizenship, becoming an Israeli.
This speaks less for religious dogma than it does for simply being an opportunist. Pollard may have been disaffected, but he also loved money enough to exchange classified information for it.
The overall point is, countries, organizations and ultimately people, act in their own best interests.
So it was with Pollard, so it is with Adelson. Ditto for the USA and for Israel. It doesn't mean we can't be allies, it simply means we should always be conscious that the other guy ain't looking to us first because he's a good guy. He's looking at us because he wants something.
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I keep reading and re reading Adelson's quote. Maybe I have a mental block, but I don't see anything wrong with it. He says he wore the uniform. Past tense.
edit to add space
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Pollard acted in his own best interests, just as Adelson has done and presumably will continue to do.
Israel will and does act in her best interests. This is seen by Netanyahu's own spoken support of Pollard, who renounced his American citizenship, becoming an Israeli.
This speaks less for religious dogma than it does for simply being an opportunist. Pollard may have been disaffected, but he also loved money enough to exchange classified information for it.
The overall point is, countries, organizations and ultimately people, act in their own best interests.
So it was with Pollard, so it is with Adelson. Ditto for the USA and for Israel. It doesn't mean we can't be allies, it simply means we should always be conscious that the other guy ain't looking to us first because he's a good guy. He's looking at us because he wants something.
I agree with this entirely, especially the bolded portion. But I think something could be added: Egypt was an "ally" only so long as Mubarak held power. Iran was an ally only so long as the Shah held power. The people of these countries despised us--might be changing some in Iran, but certainly not in Egypt. Our alliance with Israel is not dependent on who is temoporarily in power. It does matter that, in the main, Israelis like Americans, as opposed to the Arab (or Persian) populations.
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But yall still love me :naughty:
Danglers you are on your own :tongue:
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I agree with this entirely, especially the bolded portion. But I think something could be added: Egypt was an "ally" only so long as Mubarak held power. Iran was an ally only so long as the Shah held power. The people of these countries despised us--might be changing some in Iran, but certainly not in Egypt. Our alliance with Israel is not dependent on who is temoporarily in power. It does matter that, in the main, Israelis like Americans, as opposed to the Arab (or Persian) populations.
I think it could be argued quite clearly today that Barry is no more a friend of Israel's than Bush was of Saddam. In that sense, from a diplomatic perspective in the manner of "keep your friends close by and your enemies even closer", Barry isn't going to publicly condemn Israel because of the politics involved. (His language and some of his activities are pretty telling in his hatred of Israel, but he won't come right out and say it.)
Mubarek wasn't held to politics to the extent that Barry is, and neither was the Shah. They were dictators. They used the US for their purposes, just as we used them.
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But yall still love me :naughty:
Danglers you are on your own :tongue:
Yes, of course.
Now go make me my f'n sammich.
:-)
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Yes, of course.
Now go make me my f'n sammich.
:-)
White or Wheat on Tuna?
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White or Wheat on Tuna?
Ham on rye. Homey don't do tuna. Haven't you heard?
Huffpo (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/31/radioactive-tuna-pacific-fukushima-severity_n_1559190.html)
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White or Wheat on Tuna?
Tuna? Oh, here we go . . . . :panic: :naughty: :-)
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Tuna? Oh, here we go . . . . :panic: :naughty: :-)
No derailments, please. The fish are revolting (in more ways than one). :naughty:
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No derailments, please. The fish are revolting (in more ways than one). :naughty:
None planned but I was just wondering if Gina wrote that on porpoise . . .
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None planned but I was just wondering if Gina wrote that on porpoise . . .
Gina is as sin sear as the driven filet.
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None planned but I was just wondering if Gina wrote that on porpoise . . .
Now aren't you just a "ray" of sunshine ?
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Tuna? Oh, here we go . . . . :panic: :naughty: :-)
I love tuna. Did someone say sandwiches? :drool:
Eupher, how do you feel about some finely chopped onion in your tuna salad, if the ladies are making? And are we talking light-to-medium on the mayo or drenched? I go for a lighter amount of mayo, myself.
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I love tuna. Did someone say sandwiches? :drool:
Eupher, how do you feel about some finely chopped onion in your tuna salad, if the ladies are making? And are we talking light-to-medium on the mayo or drenched? I go for a lighter amount of mayo, myself.
Equal parts of hard boiled eggs please.
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I love tuna. Did someone say sandwiches? :drool:
Eupher, how do you feel about some finely chopped onion in your tuna salad, if the ladies are making? And are we talking light-to-medium on the mayo or drenched? I go for a lighter amount of mayo, myself.
Oooo, I know -- ask Euph what types of sushi he likes! Go ahead, I dare ya! :puke: :rotf:
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Yay, another meeting of the Picky Eaters Club. :tongue:
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I love tuna. Did someone say sandwiches? :drool:
Eupher, how do you feel about some finely chopped onion in your tuna salad, if the ladies are making? And are we talking light-to-medium on the mayo or drenched? I go for a lighter amount of mayo, myself.
Hmmm. Maybe you missed it when I said:
Homey don't do tuna.
Ham or pastrami on rye is good. With mustard. Or even chicken salad. And in chicken salad, I go with finely chopped onion, celery, S&P, and yep, go easy on the mayo.
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Or even chicken salad.
Homey don't do tuna, but you'll do that abomination before the Lord? :puke: :-)
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Hmmm. Maybe you missed it when I said:
Ham or pastrami on rye is good. With mustard. Or even chicken salad. And in chicken salad, I go with finely chopped onion, celery, S&P, and yep, go easy on the mayo.
I'll take all of that. AND tuna.
Just reading pastrami on rye is killing me...wait, I think I can think of something else that Homey may not do: tongue.
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I keep reading and re reading Adelson's quote. Maybe I have a mental block, but I don't see anything wrong with it. He says he wore the uniform. Past tense.
edit to add space
"the uniform that I wore in the military unfortunately was not an Israeli uniform, it was an American uniform
Sounds as if he thinks there's something wrong with wearing the American uniform.
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Equal parts of hard boiled eggs please.
How do you feel about some dill weed sprinkled in?...never tried half egg/half tuna, but I'll give anything (nearly) a go, foodwise.
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How do you feel about some dill weed sprinkled in?...never tried half egg/half tuna, but I'll give anything (nearly) a go, foodwise.
The dill weed is allowed, as well as some cayenne.
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I'll take all of that. AND tuna.
Just reading pastrami on rye is killing me...wait, I think I can think of something else that Homey may not do: tongue.
Homey don't do tongue, either. I believe in the George Carlin mantra on food:
[youtube=425,350]www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk-BR-EBMU4[/youtube]
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"the uniform that I wore in the military unfortunately was not an Israeli uniform, it was an American uniform
Sounds as if he thinks there's something wrong with wearing the American uniform.
Euph mumbles through a huge bite of his pastrami sandwich:
"Yep. I agree. The word "unfortunately" is rather telling."
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Homey don't do tongue, either.
Running away like the wind before I REALLY get into trouble!!! :bolt:
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Running away like the wind before I REALLY get into trouble!!! :bolt:
:rotf:
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"the uniform that I wore in the military unfortunately was not an Israeli uniform, it was an American uniform
Sounds as if he thinks there's something wrong with wearing the American uniform.
:hammer: can't you see we are talking about food? don't hijack the thread!