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Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: BannedFromDU on May 04, 2012, 10:39:11 AM

Title: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: BannedFromDU on May 04, 2012, 10:39:11 AM
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Marzupialis (62 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

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COINTELPRO and Occupy
White powder being sent to right-wing stations (Fox) with the message "Happy May Day" at a time when Occupy holds May Day protests...young men, some of whom sympathized ith Occupy Cleveland who never thought of blowing up a bridge until an FBI informant told them to do it with fake explosives. Now a permit has been denied against Occupy Cleveland and nobody questions the timing of this event.

COINTELPRO may be dead as a name, but the tactic lives and will live forever. Left-wing organizations will always be framed in order to discredit them.

Geez, once you subtract all the Katzenjammers from OWS, you have something like two aging hippies and a group of trust fund monkeys trying to avoid midterms. (http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002643176)

Got a concept for you DUmmies: No True Scotsman. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman) Look it up.
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: SSG Snuggle Bunny on May 04, 2012, 10:44:23 AM
Got a concept for you DUmmies: No True Scotsman. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman) Look it up.

They already know about NTS fallacies. They don't care. They will still spend their days screaming for acts of civil disobedience and claiming wealth is the moral and legal equivalent of murder, rape and slavery rolled into one...

...then they will ACT surprised when their own become violent.
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: BannedFromDU on May 04, 2012, 10:47:01 AM


...then they will ACT surprised when their own become violent.

     Even when they exhort others to violence from the safety of their mothers' vaginas basements.
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: AllosaursRus on May 04, 2012, 10:51:09 AM
They wish!! Problem is, even if there were a few provocateurs, the number has become so great its impossible for them all to be. All one has to do is watch some of the video to understand this is exactly how these spoiled little rich kids act!

Having never had to work for a damn thing in their lives, they believe they are owed!!!
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: SSG Snuggle Bunny on May 04, 2012, 10:51:49 AM
     Even when they exhort others to violence from the safety of their mothers' vaginas basements.

pretty much

They want the violence. They keep talking about how the system cannot be reformed.

Well, if it can't be reformed it must be replaced and since those currently running the system--according to DUmbass mythology--obtained and maintained their power by violence surely they don't expect us to go quietly.

One wonders why they should be surprised their side acts violently, given such a worldview.

The answer is: they aren't...it's a facade for the newspapers nobody reads anymore.

They also have to reconcile the fact that if/when they overthrow the PTB they will then be the new system that obtained and maintained its power with violence.
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: Wineslob on May 04, 2012, 11:05:34 AM
At the rate these provacateurs are going, OWS will have never existed.
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: obumazombie on May 04, 2012, 11:30:07 AM
Anarchist dude on Hannity last night said the police trucked in all the provocateurs to make OWS look bad. What's funny is dude thinks he will be believed on that count.
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: Chris_ on May 04, 2012, 11:35:11 AM
Anarchist dude on Hannity last night said the police trucked in all the provocateurs to make OWS look bad. What's funny is dude thinks he will be believed on that count.
:rofl:

It's not protesting, it's street theater.
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: Airwolf on May 04, 2012, 01:48:46 PM
Stupid Dumpmonkies. Statistically their is no way that every act of criminal behavior can be cause by Agents provocateur or the CIA or the Cops and none by the OWS when in fact its been shown on camera that it is indeed you and has been for a long time. You have not only done it during OWS but during the G-7,G-8 and the G-20 summits and the WTO gatherings just to start with.
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: redwhit on May 04, 2012, 02:03:59 PM
Anarchist dude on Hannity last night said the police trucked in all the provocateurs to make OWS look bad. What's funny is dude thinks he will be believed on that count.

What's really funny is the idea that OWS needs any more help looking bad.
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: Wineslob on May 04, 2012, 04:06:41 PM
Stupid Dumpmonkies. Statistically their is no way that every act of criminal behavior can be cause by Agents provocateur or the CIA or the Cops and none by the OWS when in fact its been shown on camera that it is indeed you and has been for a long time. You have not only done it during OWS but during the G-7,G-8 and the G-20 summits and the WTO gatherings just to start with.


Yup, just not enough bushes to jump out of.
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: dandi on May 04, 2012, 05:25:39 PM
DUmmies try to say that anyone committing acts of violence are not members of OWS. That doesn't wash.

Since OWS has no leadership, no structure, no membership requirements, and no self-policing, then anyone who says they are OWS are OWS. If they're there, and they've joined in the crowd and claimed the same goals, then you can't just arbitrarily point a finger and say, "This one is, this one isn't, this one is, this one isn't...", based solely on what you like or don't like about their behavior. Like it or not they are your creation as a result of of your insistence on having no organization, except for the laughable "general assemblies", which spend more time affirming that none of them have more authority than another, and going through monotonous "mic checks" than actually deciding anything.
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: BlueStateSaint on May 04, 2012, 05:27:22 PM
DUmmies try to say that anyone committing acts of violence are not members of OWS. That doesn't wash.  Neither do they, so it's a tie.

Since OWS has no leadership, no structure, no membership requirements, and no self-policing, then anyone who says they are OWS are OWS. If they're there, and they've joined in the crowd and claimed the same goals, then you can't just arbitrarily point a finger and say, "This one is, this one isn't, this one is, this one isn't...", based solely on what you like or don't like about their behavior. Like it or not they are your creation as a result of of your insistence on having no organization, except for the laughable "general assemblies", which spend more time affirming that none of them have more authority than another, and going through monotonous "mic checks" than actually deciding anything.

Something added for accuracy. O-)
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: Kyle Ricky on May 04, 2012, 05:30:18 PM
if that is the case, then it was also agent prevaricators at the Tea Party rallies causing problems.
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: BEG on May 04, 2012, 05:34:48 PM
if that is the case, then it was also agent prevaricators at the Tea Party rallies causing problems.

What problems?
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: dandi on May 04, 2012, 05:39:05 PM
if that is the case, then it was also agent prevaricators at the Tea Party rallies causing problems.

Like what, double-parking?
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: ruble on May 04, 2012, 05:44:05 PM
Cripes, will it ever end?
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: 67 Rover on May 04, 2012, 05:53:54 PM
Like what, double-parking?


Not enough trash for everyone to pick up.  Its not fair.
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: Duke Nukum on May 04, 2012, 05:59:23 PM
This is exactly why sane people are not allowed to post at the alleged "reality based community."
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: miskie on May 04, 2012, 06:02:12 PM
They already know about NTS fallacies. They don't care. They will still spend their days screaming for acts of civil disobedience and claiming wealth is the moral and legal equivalent of murder, rape and slavery rolled into one...

...then they will ACT surprised when their own become violent.

Know about NTS ? - They base their lives around NTS. Everything is a purity test. And No True Primitive would ever fail one of those.
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: movie buff on May 06, 2012, 08:08:41 AM
"young men, some of whom sympathized ith Occupy Cleveland who never thought of blowing up a bridge until an FBI informant told them to do it with fake explosives."
1. They didn't just "Sympathize" with Occupy Cleveland, they were part of it. Out of the five would- be bombers, all but one were official members of/ participants in Occupy Cleveland.
2. Oh, I'm so sure that they never thought of it until the informant gave them the idea! Yeah, right. Would they have even wasted their resources putting an informant among that particular group of Occupiers unless they (The FBI) knew those guys were dangerous and likely to commit an act of terrorism? I doubt it.

They already know about NTS fallacies. They don't care. They will still spend their days screaming for acts of civil disobedience and claiming wealth is the moral and legal equivalent of murder, rape and slavery rolled into one...

...then they will ACT surprised when their own become violent.

Hi-5! Couldn't have said it better myself!
It would take too long to count all the times DUmmies and others like them openly call for vandalism, violence, and terrorism, yet when someone on their side actually starts doing it, they act all surprised and insist it must have been an agent provocateur.
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: miskie on May 06, 2012, 08:34:51 AM
"young men, some of whom sympathized ith Occupy Cleveland who never thought of blowing up a bridge until an FBI informant told them to do it with fake explosives."
1. They didn't just "Sympathize" with Occupy Cleveland, they were part of it. Out of the five would- be bombers, all but one were official members of/ participants in Occupy Cleveland.
2. Oh, I'm so sure that they never thought of it until the informant gave them the idea! Yeah, right. Would they have even wasted their resources putting an informant among that particular group of Occupiers unless they (The FBI) knew those guys were dangerous and likely to commit an act of terrorism? I doubt it.

The 'Agents Provocateur' conspiracy theory that all of Occupy has been using to explain away bad behavior can only be true if the members of Occupy are stupid enough to fall for it in the first place. If Occupy's stated goal of peaceful resistance were true, everyone connected to the movement should have seen right through the ploy.

However -

I suspect what is more true is that members of Occupy are frustrated that all they have done was to voluntarily live in squalor- and they have gained virtually nothing for it - So they are stepping up their efforts to bring about the change they desire.
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: Kyle Ricky on May 06, 2012, 08:38:26 AM
What problems?

Like what, double-parking?

You know all the racism, spitting in congressman's face, making racists signs. I know it is minor compared to what the Occupiers have done. And the Liberals all want the tea party members thrown in jail, but want the occupiers left alone.
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: Ballygrl on May 06, 2012, 09:04:26 AM
Such projection! these are the same people who call Tea Partiers violent YET there's no violence, we have our rallies and clean up after ourselves, the left has rallies? it erupts in violence and garbage everywhere.
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: obumazombie on May 06, 2012, 09:48:17 AM
You know all the racism, spitting in congressman's face, making racists signs. I know it is minor compared to what the Occupiers have done. And the Liberals all want the tea party members thrown in jail, but want the occupiers left alone.
All those acts you mention were alleged, never proven, Breitbart had a bounty for proof, no one has ever provided any to claim the bounty.
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: Mr Mannn on May 06, 2012, 10:02:53 AM
I work in a liberal environment and NO ONE falls for the "agent provocateur" lie.

Remember when the liberals were upset that there was no racism at the Tea Party rallies, and so liberals made racist signs and infiltrated: pretending to be conservatives? The Tea Party countered  surrounded these REAL agent provocateurs with signs pointing them out at infiltrators.
---It was easy, and some fun photos of a liberal FAIL went out.

If agent provocateurs are really a problem...why doesn't the Occupiers point them out? we see masked idiots breaking windows and disappearing into the OWS crowd. Anarchists have complete safety in OWS. If OWS didn't approve, it would be all too easy to expose anarchists and deny them the anonymous refuge of the crowd.

as always, any casual examination of Occupier rhetoric shows it to be a lie.
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: obumazombie on May 06, 2012, 10:04:10 AM
^Well said.
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: Kyle Ricky on May 06, 2012, 11:46:27 AM
All those acts you mention were alleged, never proven, Breitbart had a bounty for proof, no one has ever provided any to claim the bounty.

Yes, and the liberals are still insisting that it happen. None of them can, or is willing to show proof that it did. But they are still insisting it did. That was my point.
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: movie buff on May 08, 2012, 06:35:38 AM
The 'Agents Provocateur' conspiracy theory that all of Occupy has been using to explain away bad behavior can only be true if the members of Occupy are stupid enough to fall for it in the first place. If Occupy's stated goal of peaceful resistance were true, everyone connected to the movement should have seen right through the ploy.

However -

I suspect what is more true is that members of Occupy are frustrated that all they have done was to voluntarily live in squalor- and they have gained virtually nothing for it - So they are stepping up their efforts to bring about the change they desire.
That's actually exactly what I predicted would happen in a thread way back in December about predictions for 2012: I predicted that the Occupy movement would continue to lose support and fade into obscurity (Which it has, up until these recent oubreaks of vandalism and violence), and that the more demented among their ranks would respond to this by ramping up their methods to include vandalism, violence, and acts of terrorism as a way to revive their dying movement.
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: wasp69 on May 08, 2012, 09:12:38 AM
It would take too long to count all the times DUmmies and others like them openly call for vandalism, violence, and terrorism, yet when someone on their side actually starts doing it, they act all surprised and insist it must have been an agent provocateur.

"We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and then bid the geldings to be fruitful."
  --  C.S. Lewis
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: Airwolf on May 08, 2012, 10:14:42 AM
There has never been any proof the kinds of things happening at TEA party rallies that goes on at OWS events or other leftist protest. They cannot point to one arrest for crimes like rape,vandalism, robbery,murder or anything that has happened at an OWS rally or the previously mentioned riots in my last post. The left has a history of violent acts like this and then they deny or place blame on others.
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: DumbAss Tanker on May 08, 2012, 10:41:02 AM
A handful of small UAVs, several equipped with a modified tazer unit that could detach and cling to the target after connecting, with special assault squads of cops on the ground to complete the arrests, would pretty well solve the anarchist mayhem problem.
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: JakeStyle on May 08, 2012, 11:44:52 AM
Quote
Mc Mike (167 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
21. +1. No doubt.

The movement publicly expressed non-violence right from the start, so bull crap 'underground' criminal actions are opposed to the principles all of the Occupiers espoused as a basis for originally getting together. Criminal acts oppose Occupy. Those actions are coming from the authorities, who fear Occupy. The 1%ers have been infiltrating progressive movements since the 1800's. SOP.

Some non-infiltrator activists occasionally do something dumb. When people get angry and hate-ful about a hateful system they are fighting against, sometimes their minds wind up in pawn to that system. Then they do something that is bad, and the system uses the incident for bad propaganda. They wind up working for the system, and they aren't even getting paid. But I haven't seen any angry or hateful people at the Occupy actions I attended.

Euph and Fire know I'm not an 'official' Occupier, because I blundered into their group on the 99% spring issue a while ago. I ally with Occupy, Spring, and Labor Dems on an issue-by-issue basis, or action-by-action basis. All I can say is Occupy is 99% right. Occupy is still outreaching to the unpoliticized 99% ers, and exposing the 1%ers. There will always be some bad guys out there, but refusing their 'underground action' enticements blunts half of their effectiveness. The other half is blunted by not distrusting strangers without good reason. Refuse to cease outreaching due to knowledge that the cointel 'pros' are out there. The cops want Occupy afraid to outreach and ally, because of worries about infiltration. They want an atmosphere of distrust among 99%ers who have been there from the start, too.

Mc Mike is an idiot.
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: SSG Snuggle Bunny on May 08, 2012, 12:00:57 PM
A handful of small UAVs, several equipped with a modified tazer unit that could detach and cling to the target after connecting, with special assault squads of cops on the ground to complete the arrests, would pretty well solve the anarchist mayhem problem.

Then what am I going to do with all these genetically modified rottweilers that shoot exploding chainsaws from their mouths when they bark?
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: BlueStateSaint on May 08, 2012, 12:02:07 PM
Then what am I going to do with all these genetically modified rottweilers that shoot exploding chainsaws from their mouths when they bark?

You haven't been reading your VRWC Dispatches again.  We're on Cypher 37.56-a. :banghead:
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: movie buff on May 08, 2012, 12:45:27 PM
"The movement publicly expressed non-violence right from the start,"
Oh, please. They just did that because they didn't want to give the cops an excuse to shut them down. The same proclamation has been made at countless other liberal protests that have quickly gotten violent.
"Criminal acts oppose Occupy."
Is that why, leaving aside the blatant acts of violence and terrorism, there have been innumerable instances of vandalism, theft (Which comes in a variety of forms: Shoplifting from businesses, pickpocketing people, and burglary) and destruction of property at pretty much every single Occupy site? Last time I checked, those are criminal acts. Liberal activists like the Occupiers even try to use cute little euphemisms to lessen the illegality of their actions, or romanticize them, such as one protestor at the 2008 DNC and RNC encouraing followers to "Focus on food liberation," aka stealing food from people who've paid for it.

"Some non-infiltrator activists occasionally do something dumb."
That's like saying the Gobi Desert occasionally is a little dry and hot.

"When people get angry and hate-ful about a hateful system they are fighting against, sometimes their minds wind up in pawn to that system."
You know, I'm normally all in favor of rational, intelligent, moderate liberals and conservatives working together over most things relating to goverment to come up with fair ideas for all. However, the one exception, the one area where I think liberals should have as little power as possible, is our justice system, and that statement from the DUmmy helps to show why. Even when admitting that the Occupiers do criminal actions, he tries to rationalize/ justify it by claiming that it's not really their fault, that it was all caused by "The system." It's the same argument used by scumbag liberal defense lawyers who, in the process of defending murderers or rapists/pedophiles, say things like, "Well, of course what my client did was wrong, but it's REALLY all society's fault! He has been a victim of a cruel and unjust society (And if the criminal in question is a racial minority, he'll try to incorporate racism into it, too), and the anger he felt over that was what drove him to commit these actions! Surely, as a society built around equality and social justice, we can't punish him for that, can we?" Bite me, DUmmy.

"But I haven't seen any angry or hateful people at the Occupy actions I attended."
Well of course they're not going to try and make it obvious. They don't want to get arrested or have their rich parents cut off their trust funds if they can avoid it. Also, angry and hateful people at Occupy actions are numerous and well- documented.

"Occupy is still outreaching to the unpoliticized 99% ers, and exposing the 1%ers."
Their 'outreaching' is usually limited to incoherently screaming mindless talking points at uninvolved civilians, all the while vandalizing said civilins' businesses, blocking traffic thus keeping them from getting to work, and leaving their public city parks looking like landfills and smelling like port- a- potties. Also, it's kind of the other way around: New York's city council tried to reach out to the Occupiers, requesting that they send a representative who could talk to them and articulate the Occupiers' demands in a mature, civilized, intelligent way. The Occupy freaks responded by sending a dog as their representative. It probably gave the dope- addled freaks something to laugh about, but it caused the city council and the public in general to see them for the brainless, juvenile, spoiled children that they are who don't even take their own movement seriously. As for "exposing the 1%ers," that's usually limited to the Occupiers incoherently shrieking that successful people are all evil monsters who should be forced to give all their hard earned money to lazy welfare parasites, before being executed for "Crimes against social justice"

"They want an atmosphere of distrust among 99%ers who have been there from the start, too."
The cops don't need to do anything to foster that atmosphere among Occupiers (I refuse to call them by the term the DUmmy uses because, no matter how desperately they wish it were so, they do not even represent 0.0001% of the American public, let aone 99%), it comes about natually due to liberals' natural paranoia and mistrust that has been a part of them from birth.
It's part of why the "Troll hunts" at DU are so entertaining to watch, seeing what paranoid, irrational cowards and fools they truly are.
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: DumbAss Tanker on May 08, 2012, 03:37:39 PM
Then what am I going to do with all these genetically modified rottweilers that shoot exploding chainsaws from their mouths when they bark?

The ground squads can use them in the "Arrest process."
Title: Re: DUmmies again insist all bad OWS behavior is due to agents provocateurs
Post by: miskie on May 08, 2012, 04:52:47 PM
Then what am I going to do with all these genetically modified rottweilers that shoot exploding chainsaws from their mouths when they bark?

(http://www.sweetslyrics.com/images/img_gal/3172_Dr_Evil.jpg)

To hell with sharks with lasers and ill-tempered mutated sea bass ! I needs ta get some of those !