The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Freeper on April 25, 2012, 09:00:43 PM
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Eugene
US Marine Gary Stein dismissed for criticising Obama
Source: BBC
25 April 2012 Last updated at 19:02 GMT
US Marine Gary Stein dismissed for criticising Obama
A US Marine sergeant who criticised President Barack Obama on Facebook is to be discharged.
Sgt Gary Stein will receive an other-than-honourable discharge for violating a policy that limits speech of military service members, the Marine Corps said.
The action means Sgt Stein, who served nearly 10 years in the Marine Corps, will lose all benefits.
He had argued that his comments were covered by his constitutional right to freedom of speech.
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Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17849170
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002610748
All the replies except one so far are saying that this is the right thing to do, what I know is, if this happened when Bush was in office the DUmmies would up in arms over this.
joe_sixpack
3. Don't know if I agree.
Other than his actions being viewed as immature, I don't see the need for a discharge. As a military member, I've always supported the current CINC. Whether I agreed with his policies or not. In uniform, I made sure to support their decisions, just as I would any officer appointed over me. But Facebook? Isn't that akin to what you might say to a few friends over at dinner? I try to think back to the days when Bush was President and how I'd feel if this came up then, and I don't think I agree with the Marine Corps' decision on this one.
You realize you just violated a major rule at DU, you say that you always support the commander in chief and I saw no disclaimer so that must of included Chimpy.
Logical
7. I do agree. Disrespectful of his leader. See what happens if I criticize my company's CEO online....
I would be fired!
riderinthestorm
22. He said he wouldn't obey orders from Obama, his CIC.
That doesn't sound like he was simply having a chatfest with his pals at the bar. He advocated for open disobedience.
I seem to recall DU begging the troops to do just that when Bush was in office, so for the same action that would have made him a hero 4 years ago makes him a traitor now.
joe_sixpack
18. And we'd all feel the same way,
if this happened under the last Commander in Chief? Just asking.
Just beg for a tombstone. :-)
My thoughts on this, he should have never openly criticized the president like he did. I served under Clintoon and would never have dared to publicly say anything bad about him because I knew that would get me in trouble. I do think discharge may be on the extreme side though.
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The Dems suddenly like following orders blindly, whereas under Chimpy, they certainly loved them some Conscientious Objectors, didn't they ?
Sadly, I believe that under the codes that govern the military, that they were right to dismiss the Marine. I'd like to find a way around it, but those are the rules as I understand them. Military members can't speak negatively of elected officials publicly while actively serving. Granted, if they are ordered to behave in a manner prohibited by The Constitution, there is a case to be made, but this Marine's statement was not triggered by anything unlawful.
I'm sure some of our more connected members here will address me if I am wrong.
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riderinthestorm
22. He said he wouldn't obey orders from Obama, his CIC.
That doesn't sound like he was simply having a chatfest with his pals at the bar. He advocated for open disobedience.
No. He said that he would not ALL orders from Obama.
I seem to recall some leftist calling on the troops to turn on their commanding officers and open fire. To me, that is open treason.
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The worst he should have got was something the equivalent of disrespect towards a superior officer. Absent a threat or a past history of insubordination, taking a man's career away from him over a few intemperate words is excessive. It also smacks of assigning Obama some kind of god-like status, that whoever speaks against him must be destroyed.
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The worst he should have got was something the equivalent of disrespect towards a superior officer. Absent a threat or a past history of insubordination, taking a man's career away from him over a few intemperate words is excessive. It also smacks of assigning Obama some kind of god-like status, that whoever speaks against him must be destroyed.
One article I read said that he was given more than one chance to withdraw or disown his comments, and he refused.
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Any active-duty military man who would post something like that about the president on the internet doesn't have enough judgment to be trusted with a deadly weapon.
It doesn't matter that the president is an America-hating Marxist muslim.
Until we get rid of him he's the CIC.
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Logical
7. I do agree. Disrespectful of his leader. See what happens if I criticize my company's CEO online....
I would be fired!
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJxmpTMGhU0[/youtube]
Not saying I agree with what the Marine did to his CinC, but you idiots provided the avenue with EXACTLY what Freeper said when he said this:
I seem to recall DU begging the troops to do just that when Bush was in office, so for the same action that would have made him a hero 4 years ago makes him a traitor now.
****ing DUmbasses. ::)
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Obama is a Marxist ****ing asshole who should, IMO, be impeached for dereliction of duty, if not perpetrating the greatest scam this nation's ever witnessed, but right now that ****ing tool is the CinC.
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BTW, this:
joe_sixpack
5. But is it considered public
if it was just posted to "friends" on Facebook?
Is a good point. If I'm serving with Snugs or TRG, and we're friends, but they support Obama, if I tell them in confidence that I can't stand this idiot in office, and they go back to say something, can I be discharged for that?
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Any active-duty military man who would post something like that about the president on the internet doesn't have enough judgment to be trusted with a deadly weapon.
It doesn't matter that the president is an America-hating Marxist muslim.
Until we get rid of him he's the CIC.
He could just be fed the **** up. Again, not saying I agree with what he did.
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What the guys motives were, I don't know.
His actions may very well have an unforeseen impact for the rest of his life.
Naturally, j-effin-kerry and the wiki twerp are big heros in the DUmps collective mind.
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002610748
All the replies except one so far are saying that this is the right thing to do, what I know is, if this happened when Bush was in office the DUmmies would up in arms over this.
You realize you just violated a major rule at DU, you say that you always support the commander in chief and I saw no disclaimer so that must of included Chimpy.
I seem to recall DU begging the troops to do just that when Bush was in office, so for the same action that would have made him a hero 4 years ago makes him a traitor now.
Just beg for a tombstone. :-)
My thoughts on this, he should have never openly criticized the president like he did. I served under Clintoon and would never have dared to publicly say anything bad about him because I knew that would get me in trouble. I do think discharge may be on the extreme side though.
After 10 years this was just askin' for it! He had to know better! You can criticize him after you leave, but you sure as hell can't while he's your CMC. I think the punishment must be 'Bummer's" idea though.
It wasn't that bad! You'd hear that in the barracks, or the officers club on any given day IMO. I agree, take his stripes.
To make such a big deal out of it and destroy a 10 year Vet's career, is just steppin' over the line.
Doesn't his service amount to anything? In my eyes he ought to get a Mulligan. I'm sure O'Bummer takes 'em on the ****in' golf course every ****in' day!
Who do ya think is pushin' this shit? I bet dollars to doughnuts it's his "highness"!
The prick is as vindictive as I've ever seen since Nixon, and I think he would make him look like an amateur!
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I have to wonder, was he warned by his chain of command in the past? If not, this is unwarranted and a bunch of BS.
BTW lurkers, what happened to "troops need to speak truth to power"? I guess that ended 20Jan09. Not to worry, your savior will be gone 20Jan13.
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I have to wonder, was he warned by his chain of command in the past? If not, this is unwarranted and a bunch of BS.
BTW lurkers, what happened to "troops need to speak truth to power"? I guess that ended 20Jan09. Not to worry, your savior will be gone 20Jan13.
Yeah, that "truth to power" is a diode.
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joe_sixpack
18. And we'd all feel the same way,
if this happened under the last Commander in Chief? Just asking
You know the answer to that DUmmie.
It's well doccumented that you cheered encouraged and supported soldiers to refuse deployment orders and cheered the deserters.
You're calls for ALL of us to revolt against the President are well doccumented.
All this thread at the DUmp does is peel back another layer and allow their hypocrisy and bigorty to be better exposed.
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What about your undying support for Bradley Manning, you dip**** DUmmies? Let's see, dissing ObieWan on FB vs. espionage...gee, what to choose, what to choose.
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What about your undying support for Bradley Manning, you dip**** DUmmies? Let's see, dissing ObieWan on FB vs. espionage...gee, what to choose, what to choose.
I see both sides of this problem.
I ran into this when I was living ON BASE and bought a bumper sticker that read " LICK THE BIG DICK" that was it much like the stickers that read " GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER"
Coming home I was not allowed entry to the base as two very young Marines with tears of laughter told me that I could not be on base with a sticker that was critical towards their Commander and Chief.
ME---How do you know this is directed at anyone.??
Them--Lady do you want to go home ?
They removed the sticker for me in one piece and then argued about who got to keep the sticker and waved me through the gate.
Military has one giving up some civilian rights for the members and their family's.
In order to keep discipline with in the troops there has to be loyalty of the troops to their leader. To have the military divided against the leader is dangerous and All leaders fear a military take over.
For people in the military to go public with any thoughts of why, what, or how their leader orders them is none of their business.
Theres is to do or die and not question why. This is the Military you know, not a civilian job that one can come and go at will.
This man who has 9 years in is a idiot.
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Every man has a point past which he can no longer be pushed.
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The Other than honorable discharge may/may not be a bit extreme.
I don't recall all the regs but cannot a person that's discharged with anything other than a dishonorable discharge , after a certain period of time , petition to have their discharge status upgraded to honorable or at least general ?
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Yes
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Actually, I think it's automatic after 6 months.
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The UCMJ, it's a bitch. One gives away almost all of the rights guaranteed under The Constitution.
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I have a Ban alert, and this popped up when I read the mail.
BanTheGOP
24. There IS a difference...under Obama, shitcan his ass...
As far as I'm concerned, the republican Party is NOT a political party, nor is it an organization of individuals whom I have any respect for in any capacity, and would NOT consider disobeying any "order" by a republican to be valid. However, for non-republicans, there is a HUGE difference, especially those of a progressive, globally complicit military run by someone such as President Obama.
Bottom line:
Under President Obama or any progressive Democrat or Socialist, he should be given the harshest punishment possible.
Under Bush, Reagan, or any other republican or libertarian, he would, and SHOULD, be considered a hero. As a matter of fact, we have celebrated many such individuals who had defied Bush when they refused to go to war.
Let's not wax hypocritical. And frankly, let's ban the GOP so we don't have to pull this dance every time someone gets in a snit over commander in chief absolution.
There you have it. If the CiC is a lib, he's toast. If the CiC is Republican, he's a defiant hero.
OK, I admit: I am now leaning toward him being a mole. Had he not had a star, then I would assume he would have been "shitcanned" just like his post should have been. But you can count on him for writing what the DU is thinking every moment, even if they don't post it.
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The Other than honorable discharge may/may not be a bit extreme.
I don't recall all the regs but cannot a person that's discharged with anything other than a dishonorable discharge , after a certain period of time , petition to have their discharge status upgraded to honorable or at least general ?
John Kerry and Jimmy Carter would know more about that than I do. It's all above my pay grade.
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John Kerry and Jimmy Carter would know more about that than I do. It's all above my pay grade.
Not my pay grade. Well, not my google grade anyway. Here's pretty much everything you need to know.
http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/generalinfo/a/dischargeupg.htm
Doesn't look good for Stein. Here's a relevant statement from the article:
"With few exceptions, the DRB can consider all discharges for upgrade. The Board cannot, however, change a punitive discharge imposed by a courts-martial. "
That pretty much sums it up. Only the CiC can change the status, it would seem, based upon pardon statutes, but I'm not sure how that would work.
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Not my pay grade. Well, not my google grade anyway. Here's pretty much everything you need to know.
http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/generalinfo/a/dischargeupg.htm
Doesn't look good for Stein. Here's a relevant statement from the article:
"With few exceptions, the DRB can consider all discharges for upgrade. The Board cannot, however, change a punitive discharge imposed by a courts-martial. "
That pretty much sums it up. Only the CiC can change the status, it would seem, based upon pardon statutes, but I'm not sure how that would work.
President Jimmy Carter upgraded John Kerry's discharge.
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Not my pay grade. Well, not my google grade anyway. Here's pretty much everything you need to know.
http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/generalinfo/a/dischargeupg.htm
Doesn't look good for Stein. Here's a relevant statement from the article:
"With few exceptions, the DRB can consider all discharges for upgrade. The Board cannot, however, change a punitive discharge imposed by a courts-martial. "
That pretty much sums it up. Only the CiC can change the status, it would seem, based upon pardon statutes, but I'm not sure how that would work.
The Article is unclear as to if it was a court martial. A disciplinary panel could be an article 15 but that normally is adjudicated by a single field Grade officer.
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Article 15 is njp.
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Article 15 is njp.
An article 15 can impose discharge.
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There may be other reasons why the DUmmies are taking sides against the marine. Their innate hatred of the military is an obvious one, but don't overlook the guys last name. Stein
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One article I read said that he was given more than one chance to withdraw or disown his comments, and he refused.
That has the ring of truth to it; this is the kind of thing that doesn't normally go anywhere near this far unless the troop in question forces it there.
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That has the ring of truth to it; this is the kind of thing that doesn't normally go anywhere near this far unless the troop in question forces it there.
Perhaps someone called someone else' s bluff but they weren't bluffing ?