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Current Events => General Discussion => Topic started by: mrclose on April 20, 2012, 09:43:36 PM

Title: ABC News: Photo taken after Trayvon Martin shooting shows bloody George Zimmerma
Post by: mrclose on April 20, 2012, 09:43:36 PM
Unless I missed it .. Why hasn't this been posted in the forums yet?

(If it has and I did miss it .. I apologize)

Quote
ABC News exclusively obtained a graphic photograph of George Zimmerman’s head covered in blood that was taken just three minutes after the shooting that left 17-year-old Trayvon Martin dead.

The picture  shows two cuts on the back of Zimmerman's head with blood trickling down.

(better picture at link)

(http://picrpicr.com/image-F03F_4F921E42.jpg)


http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/abc-news-photo-taken-after-trayvon-martin-shooting/nMdbw/
Title: Re: ABC News: Photo taken after Trayvon Martin shooting shows bloody George Zimmerma
Post by: MrsSmith on April 21, 2012, 07:48:16 AM
I saw that...a bunch of comments on Yahoo were that this was faked.   ::)  I suppose many people think the police report was faked, also.  Zimmerman has nearly no chance of a fair trial. 
Title: Re: ABC News: Photo taken after Trayvon Martin shooting shows bloody George Zimmerma
Post by: CG6468 on April 21, 2012, 10:43:09 AM
I saw that...a bunch of comments on Yahoo were that this was faked.   ::)  I suppose many people think the police report was faked, also.  Zimmerman has nearly no chance of a fair trial.

His lawyer should demand a change of venue.
Title: Re: ABC News: Photo taken after Trayvon Martin shooting shows bloody George Zimmerma
Post by: docstew on April 21, 2012, 11:48:12 AM
His lawyer should demand a change of venue.

To where? Mars? That's about the only place he'll find people with no opinion on this case.

As a question for our resident lawyers, what happens if he's found guilty by a jury even though the state doesn't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt? Is there any grounds for appeal?
Title: Re: ABC News: Photo taken after Trayvon Martin shooting shows bloody George Zimmerma
Post by: TVDOC on April 21, 2012, 12:11:12 PM
To where? Mars? That's about the only place he'll find people with no opinion on this case.

As a question for our resident lawyers, what happens if he's found guilty by a jury even though the state doesn't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt? Is there any grounds for appeal?

I suspect that the attorneys here will tell you that there are always grounds for appeal, particularly in cases that have such a high media profile.  However, typically appeals courts are extremely reluctant to overturn jury decisions unless there is a giant gaping flaw in the initial trial.

The key to success for the defense, IMO, is a change of venue, and voir dire will be critical........

It will be hard to find jurors that haven't been exposed to the hype in this case, but sadly, venue must be changed to a jurisdiction with an extremely small black population........my experience simply tells me that in a racially-charged environment they will consider the "black" issue before justice comes into their deliberation.  As  a group I have seen little evidence that blacks are capable of making an independent decision where race is a factor.

It shouldn't be that way......but that appears to be the reality.......

doc
Title: Re: ABC News: Photo taken after Trayvon Martin shooting shows bloody George Zimmerma
Post by: jtyangel on April 21, 2012, 12:32:10 PM
I suspect that the attorneys here will tell you that there are always grounds for appeal, particularly in cases that have such a high media profile.  However, typically appeals courts are extremely reluctant to overturn jury decisions unless there is a giant gaping flaw in the initial trial.

The key to success for the defense, IMO, is a change of venue, and voir dire will be critical........

It will be hard to find jurors that haven't been exposed to the hype in this case, but sadly, venue must be changed to a jurisdiction with an extremely small black population........my experience simply tells me that in a racially-charged environment they will consider the "black" issue before justice comes into their deliberation.  As  a group I have seen little evidence that blacks are capable of making an independent decision where race is a factor.

It shouldn't be that way......but that appears to be the reality.......

doc
Sadly, I agree. Makes me thinks it's long past time blacks checked themselves when it comes to race.
Seems to me though that's not going to happen on its own any more then Jim crow laws remedied themselves. At some
Point the hand of the law will probably be what has to interfere at s
Title: Re: ABC News: Photo taken after Trayvon Martin shooting shows bloody George Zimmerma
Post by: CG6468 on April 21, 2012, 12:45:14 PM
He's been convicted by the press and by the black activists. Have the trial in a conservative jurisdiction.
Title: Re: ABC News: Photo taken after Trayvon Martin shooting shows bloody George Zimmerma
Post by: rich_t on April 21, 2012, 02:51:12 PM
To where? Mars? That's about the only place he'll find people with no opinion on this case.

As a question for our resident lawyers, what happens if he's found guilty by a jury even though the state doesn't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt? Is there any grounds for appeal?

There have been cases where the presiding judge has thrown out the jury verdict.  I don't know if the rules for such things vary by state.
Title: Re: ABC News: Photo taken after Trayvon Martin shooting shows bloody George Zimmerma
Post by: BlueStateSaint on April 21, 2012, 03:07:09 PM
I suspect that the attorneys here will tell you that there are always grounds for appeal, particularly in cases that have such a high media profile.  However, typically appeals courts are extremely reluctant to overturn jury decisions unless there is a giant gaping flaw in the initial trial.

The key to success for the defense, IMO, is a change of venue, and voir dire will be critical........

It will be hard to find jurors that haven't been exposed to the hype in this case, but sadly, venue must be changed to a jurisdiction with an extremely small black population........my experience simply tells me that in a racially-charged environment they will consider the "black" issue before justice comes into their deliberation.  As  a group I have seen little evidence that blacks are capable of making an independent decision where race is a factor.

It shouldn't be that way......but that appears to be the reality.......

doc

Panama City may wind up with this one.
Title: Re: ABC News: Photo taken after Trayvon Martin shooting shows bloody George Zimmerma
Post by: docstew on April 21, 2012, 07:33:31 PM
I suspect that the attorneys here will tell you that there are always grounds for appeal, particularly in cases that have such a high media profile.  However, typically appeals courts are extremely reluctant to overturn jury decisions unless there is a giant gaping flaw in the initial trial.

The key to success for the defense, IMO, is a change of venue, and voir dire will be critical........

It will be hard to find jurors that haven't been exposed to the hype in this case, but sadly, venue must be changed to a jurisdiction with an extremely small black population........my experience simply tells me that in a racially-charged environment they will consider the "black" issue before justice comes into their deliberation.  As  a group I have seen little evidence that blacks are capable of making an independent decision where race is a factor.

It shouldn't be that way......but that appears to be the reality.......

doc

So, with that being said, why would he accept a jury trial?
Title: Re: ABC News: Photo taken after Trayvon Martin shooting shows bloody George Zimmerma
Post by: rich_t on April 22, 2012, 08:02:00 AM
So, with that being said, why would he accept a jury trial?

What other option is available to him?  Summary decision from the Judge? 

Good question for one of our legal beagles here tho.
Title: Re: ABC News: Photo taken after Trayvon Martin shooting shows bloody George Zimmerma
Post by: TVDOC on April 22, 2012, 11:39:32 AM
So, with that being said, why would he accept a jury trial?

His attorney might determine that trial before a judge is the best option depending on venue.....the defendant almost always has that choice (depending on state statutes).  That too however, carries inherent risks, as in most jurisdictions, you don't get to select the judge.  They typically take cases on some sort of rotational system.......and judges have biases just like anyone else.

A good attorney knows how to work a jury......even a hostile one.......and with twelve people, he has an opportunity to hang it, resulting in a mistrial if that's his only shot.  With a judge, the defense gets only one bite at the apple, which is why these cases are most often jury trials.

There is going to be a lot of pretrial hurdles that the prosecution is going to have to clear before this case gets to that point......a lot more information is going to have to come out before an actual trial begins.  If the prosecution's case is as thin as it appears in the initial bond hearing, there is always the chance that the judge will toss it before the trial.......

I know nothing about Florida law, but generically the next step should be an "evidentiary hearing", where the prosecution is forced to present its entire case so the judge can determine if there is enough solid evidence to even present it to a jury.......that piece should be interesting, especially since the bond hearing resulted in a relatively low bond for the defendant.........based solely on that decision, it appears that the judge is skeptical that the prosecution can prevail.

All of this "agitation" by the race-baiters is a sword that cuts both ways......it inflames the minority community, and the politicians run for cover, but the politicians won't decide this case.......when the jury pool sees testimony via telephone in bond hearings because of fear on the part of Zimmerman's family, death threats, and bounties placed on him by the NBPP......it pisses them off.  No one in this country should have to live in fear from a group of people because of racial tension.  That isn't helping the prosecutions case.

Pardon the editorializing........but I suspect that the majority of US citizens are growing damn tired of having to "tiptoe" around a group of people for fear that they might riot, burn down communities, and create general mayhem when they don't get their way, like petulant children......it's way past time for that crap to stop.......it would be reciprocally impossible to select a jury where at least some members don't harbor that opinion.

YMMV.....There is much that we don't know at this point......just speculation......

doc
Title: Re: ABC News: Photo taken after Trayvon Martin shooting shows bloody George Zimmerma
Post by: Ptarmigan on April 22, 2012, 02:26:04 PM
To where? Mars? That's about the only place he'll find people with no opinion on this case.

As a question for our resident lawyers, what happens if he's found guilty by a jury even though the state doesn't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt? Is there any grounds for appeal?

Change of venue is common for highly publicized case. There should be a diverse jury pool, compose of all races and ethnicities. That was not the case with OJ Simpson trial, which had 9 Blacks, 2 Whites, and 1 Hispanic.
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/simpson/jurypage.html

Had the case went to a grand jury, Zimmerman likely would of faced no charges.

It is probable that Zimmerman may never go to trial as a judge may drop the case and I say that is a "if".

Title: Re: ABC News: Photo taken after Trayvon Martin shooting shows bloody George Zimmerma
Post by: Ptarmigan on April 22, 2012, 02:32:30 PM
So, with that being said, why would he accept a jury trial?

What other option is available to him?  Summary decision from the Judge?  

Good question for one of our legal beagles here tho.

He can request for a bench trial, which is a no jury trial. A defendant can have one, but they are rarely judge allows it.
Title: Re: ABC News: Photo taken after Trayvon Martin shooting shows bloody George Zimmerma
Post by: Ptarmigan on April 22, 2012, 02:33:56 PM
Unless I missed it .. Why hasn't this been posted in the forums yet?

(If it has and I did miss it .. I apologize)

(better picture at link)

(http://picrpicr.com/image-F03F_4F921E42.jpg)


http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/abc-news-photo-taken-after-trayvon-martin-shooting/nMdbw/

Looks like a fight did occur between Zimmerman and Martin.