The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: SSG Snuggle Bunny on March 29, 2012, 02:23:58 PM
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Swede (25,852 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
How did legal observers and Obamacare backers get it so wrong? By Greg Sargent
snip
This now looks like a terrible misjudgment. During oral arguments this week, Scalia invoked the broccoli argument to question the goverment’s case. He mocked the government’s position with a reference to the “cornhusker kickback,†even though that’s not in the law. As Fried notes, this language is straight out of the Tea Party guerrilla manual that was written during the battle to prevent Obamacare from becoming law in the first place.
All of which is to say that the law's proponents were badly caught off guard by the depth of the conservative bloc’s apparent hostility towards the law and its willingness to embrace the hard right’s arguments against its constitutionality. They didn’t anticipate that this could shape up as an ideological death struggle over the heart and soul of the Obama presidency, which, as E.J. Dionne notes today, is exactly what it has become.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/how-did-obamacares-backers-get-it-so-wrong/2012/03/29/gIQArH5wiS_blog.html
nashville_brook (16,505 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
1. no excuse for being caught "off gaurd"- the teabaggers have been threatening
violence since the summer the public option was laid to rest.
calimary (26,626 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
4. Absolutely. "Caught off-guard." Dear God!
What utter bullshit. These stupid naive know-nothings were born yesterday? They truly don't understand who and what they're up against? They're THAT gullible??!?!?!?!?!? They haven't seen enough evidence and enough proof?
I keep hearing, from Democrats, various versions of "the American people will understand!" WRONG! "They'll know!" WRONG! "They'll see the benefits and they'll get it." WRONG! "They'll see the benefits and they'll understand!" WRONG! "They'll see how health care reform has helped them, and ... " WRONG! "Those benefits will speak for themselves." WRONG! And my newest favorite: "The American people aren't stupid." WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!!!
When they're being force-fed a constant stream of negativity and criticism and distortions and lies, it wouldn't matter if Obama and all the Dems arrived at their front door with checks made out to pay for ANY of their most drastic healthcare needs for the rest of their lives! They'd STILL believe the propaganda instead of their own lying eyes. They've been trained by now, over some 30 years of carefuly crafted and shrewdly delivered CONservative propaganda to vote against their own interests because, well, that trickle-down stuff will SURELY trickle down to them someday if they just keep believing. God will provide. The GOP way will make them all rich. And there won't be any more of those annoying blacks and brown-skins or uppity women getting in their way. It'll be magic! A nice, white America like a lot of them grew up believing in while they watched "Ozzie and Harriet" and believed that was how it was or should be, and how it must always continue to be. When "the little woman" stayed in the kitchen and only left the house to go grocery shopping or to the PTA, and African-Americans were - well - out of sight and out of mind unless they were shoeshine men with their sidewalk shoeshine stands, or washing your car at the car wash where you didn't have to tip them if you didn't feel like it. And Hispanics were like Bill Dana and that old "dumb Mexican" "Jose Jimenez" comedy routine of his - that is, when they weren't waiting tables and you didn't have to tip them much anyway - they should be grateful to have those jobs. Better when they were in the back washing dishes so they, too, were out of sight and out of mind and because of that you didn't have to tip them either - OR feel guilty about not doing so.
That's the America they want "back." They want to go "back." Back in time. When they really didn't have to believe that all men were created equal - and note the slogan says "all men," and no women need apply. Especially when everyone knows they just shouldn't be bothering their pretty little heads about such things anyway. And gays? Hey, nobody around HERE is gay! It's Communism!!!!
That America is long dead, thank goodness. But it won't stop these bastards from wanting to resurrect it again. And trying their damnedest to make sure it happens.
And with ALL of that, for all these years setting up VERY painfully obvious templates based on a long track record of consistently bad behavior, these dumb-asses on our side keep getting "caught off-guard." UNBELIEVABLE.
Where is the distortion in: you cannot force me--a free citizen--to buy something
barbtries (12,126 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
6. conservative judges
could really not care less about the people, the constitution, their sworn duty. they just don't and nothing anyone else says or does will make them. the only hope is Democrats for president for the foreseeable future.
Where in the COTUS am I obligated to buy you shit?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002489952
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nashville_brook (16,505 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
1. no excuse for being caught "off gaurd"- the teabaggers have been threatening
violence since the summer the public option was laid to rest.
Hey nashville, last time I checked it's the leftist morons, i.e. Occuturds, flash mobs, are the ones prone to violence.
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As usual we find the primitives without a ****in' clue about what is or isn't in the Constitution!
Hell, Ginsberg told the Muslim brotherhood not to model their constitution after ours because it was outdated and antiquated.
An O'Bummer Supreme Court Justice appointee said this!
Naw, he's not a Muslim! I'd prolly go with traitor first, but I'm just a little opinionated when it comes to protecting my freedoms!
Can't make up my mind to cry, puke, or load my gun!
(edited to add)
Tell ya what DUmb****s, send me your address. I give you my word I will not divulge it to anyone. I will send you a pocket copy of the US of A's Constitution provided by the Heritage Foundation, at the expense of it's members, of which I am one, and you point out to me how conservatives are not following it!
I dare ya, ya ****in' coward! Better yet, I double Dog dare ya! Of course you will have to come over here to PM me, as I can't last long enough over there in order to get a PM, but as you are so sure of yourself, I'm sure that won't be a problem.
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When the SCOTUS strikes it down (if they do) it will be delicious at the DUmp. :yahoo:
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That's some rant by Calimary. I had to dodge the foam-flecked spittle. Get the straightjacket! How all this goes back to race and barefoot-and-pregnant is beyond me, but there she did it. Lunatic.
Following the links back, I liked this comment at the WashPost:
DavesNotHere1 wrote:
3:36 PM EDT
The "hard" right. Cute. Tell me, do you get extra ponts in the Journolist pool if you use the term "hard right" in a column? If' there's anything "hard" here, it's the heads of beltway liberals.
Why did legal commentators get it so wrong? Two words: Echo Chamber.
And then, to some chick decrying "the court doesn't care about my welfare!"
DavesNotHere1 responds:
3:40 PM EDT
You're an idiot. That's not what appellate justices do. Their job is strictly to judge the Constitutionality of the law based on the text of the law, the Constitution and legal precedent. That empathy mumbo jumbo works in trial courts, but not at the appellate level.
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When the SCOTUS strikes it down (if they do) it will be delicious at the DUmp. :yahoo:
Then imagine OWS fizzling.
Then imagine the Obama DoJ saying there isn't enough evidence to indict Zimmerman.
Then imagine Obama tanking in the polls as election day draws nearer.
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Oops, by the title of the thread, I thought it had something to do with the big guy.
Apparently not.
Sorry for interrupting; carry on.
www.electstevedawes.com
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Then imagine OWS fizzling.
If they strike down Obamacare, I expect OWS to explode with violence.
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barbtries (12,126 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
6. conservative judges could really not care less about the people, the constitution, their sworn duty. they just don't and nothing anyone else says or does will make them. the only hope is Democrats for president for the foreseeable future.
The dog cocks it's head in wonder.
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From Ace of Spades: LINK (http://ace.mu.nu/archives/327947.php)
Click the link to read more.
Karl at the Green Room has a good primer on the number of prominent liberals living wholly in The Cocoon.
If liberals not in the media choose to live in The Cocoon, that's their right. But shouldn't media-types who are supposed to inform the public have a passing acquaintance with the arguments of the right?
How can you keep your audience informed if you yourself are deliberately misinformed, by voluntary personal choice?
John Podhoretz writes about the psychic shock when The Cocoon falls apart.
They’re so convinced of their own correctness — and so determined to believe conservatives are either a) corrupt, b) stupid or c) deluded — that they find themselves repeatedly astonished to discover conservatives are in fact capable of a) advancing and defending their own powerful arguments, b) effectively countering weak liberal arguments and c) exposing the soft underbelly of liberal self-satisfaction as they do so.
That’s what happened this week. There appears to be no question in the mind of anyone who read the transcripts or listened to the oral arguments that the conservative lawyers and justices made mincemeat out of the Obama administration’s advocates and the liberal members of the court.
This came as a startling shock to the liberals who write about the court.
Jeffrey Toobin's job is not, supposedly, to offer his own opinions. It's to offer analysis of the court's actual jurisprudence (not just the Jurisprudence of the Left-- that is, Constitutional law in which only liberal opinions are recognized or considered law) and grounded speculation/prediction about the behavior of the court.
For the former, you need to read conservative legal opinions, and not just ignore them as Uncouth. For the latter, you also need to read these opinions, plus briefs in an upcoming case, and make unbiased judgments about what the court will do.
Not what you, as a Man of the Left, wish it to do. But what it probably will do.
But that was too much for Jeffrey Toobin, and Linda Greenhouse, and Dahlia Lithwick, and the rest of the People of Cocoon, so they just spun a cozy home of silk and dreams.
They were surprised by these arguments. Podhoretz says They should not have been surprised.
No one was hiding these arguments. They have been readily-available in court records for two years.
Nor was anyone hiding the two courts' decisions agreeing with these arguments.
**snip**
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From Ace of Spades: LINK (http://ace.mu.nu/archives/327947.php)
Not surprising - the left drinks its own Kool-Aid like a fratboy from an 80's movie drinks beer.
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I just added a quote from Rush's Monologue today to my siggy, here's an excerpt of what Rush said:
Just this week Jeff Toobin was on Charlie Rose predicting a slam dunk for constitutionality. And all it took was 90 minutes of oral arguments and he's in a full abject panic as though he had never heard any of these objections to Obamacare and he's then scaring Wolf Blitzer to death. Poor Wolf I think had to take a day off one day this week to deal with his shock over the fact that this thing has some problems. Toobin was out there talking to Wolf Blitzer one day, and Wolf carried his shock and dismay into the night. The next day Toobin was put on with Don Lemon and Wolf wasn't anywhere to be found, so he might be wearing a little white jacket somewhere here until he gets his equilibrium back.
It's eye-opening. I really want to be serious about this. They're a bunch of overhyped know-nothings who do not have an expansive view of the world. They're in a prison that's created by their own conceit. They're in a prison that's the result of their own arrogance and they live in a place where there is no reality. And that's what hit them right between the eyes this week. They were confronted with reality, which they regularly, purposely avoid. They have instead constructed in their minds this socialist utopian idyllic dreamland, fantasyland that doesn't exist, can't exist, won't ever exist. And when they are confronted with the reality of anything up against their own constructs, it is the equivalent to you and I of being surprised by a bear in our backyard. It's the last thing you expect to happen.
Now, let me go through some of Hayward's piece here to try to be illustrative of what I'm talking about. "The Terrible, No Good, Very Bad Month for the Left." I'm not gonna read the whole thing. I'm gonna take excerpts here. "It is typical for politically engaged people to note the weaknesses and defects of their own side..." No, that's what's remarkable; they don't. There are no weaknesses. There are no defects, until they're confronted with them. They do not conceive them. (Continuing reading excerpt) "...while overestimating the strength and prowess of their opponents." That's us. That's what we have always done, and hopefully no more. There's no reason to ever feel inferior to these people. There's no reason to grant them superior or elite status in any way.
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In short, Liberals think they are very, very smart.
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If they strike down Obamacare, I expect OWS to explode with violence.
We might as well get it on and get it over with. It's coming, sooner or later. I wish it wasn't. Some people only need to be told that the stove is hot and they have the good sense to stay away. Some people need to smell burning flesh. DUmmies and OWS's are the second type.
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If they strike down Obamacare, I expect OWS to explode with violence
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We might as well get it on and get it over with. It's coming, sooner or later. I wish it wasn't. Some people only need to be told that the stove is hot and they have the good sense to stay away. Some people need to smell burning flesh. DUmmies and OWS's are the second type.
There is going to be violence when Obama loses, mark my words. They are waiting for an excuse.
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There is going to be violence when Obama loses, mark my words. They are waiting for an excuse.
That's alright. So am I. A mob of DUmbshits rolling up the street looking for "social justice" seems like valid justification to me.
:killemall:
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From Ace of Spades: LINK (http://ace.mu.nu/archives/327947.php)
When Ace is on, he is ON. His "Sh!t Got Real" video gave me tingles.
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Oops, by the title of the thread, I thought it had something to do with the big guy.
Apparently not.
Sorry for interrupting; carry on.
www.electstevedawes.com
The problem with Steve Dawes, socialist election candidate in Bellevue Nebraska, is the complete lack of panic...indeed the complete lack of campaigning.
Thankfully he has some friends to help get his message of socialism out there for all of the voters to see using only his own words and the words of his friends: www.electstevedawes.com
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Read this steaming pile of crap: LINK (http://theweek.com/bullpen/column/226270/will-a-tea-party-supreme-court-guarantee-obama-a-second-term)
Then read the comments. :rotf:
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That's alright. So am I. A mob of DUmbshits rolling up the street looking for "social justice" seems like valid justification to me.
:killemall:
Get some!
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Read this steaming pile of crap: LINK (http://theweek.com/bullpen/column/226270/will-a-tea-party-supreme-court-guarantee-obama-a-second-term)
Then read the comments. :rotf:
:lmao:
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Read this steaming pile of crap: LINK (http://theweek.com/bullpen/column/226270/will-a-tea-party-supreme-court-guarantee-obama-a-second-term)
Then read the comments. :rotf:
Did you see their daily poll subject?
Should cell phone use be allowed in movie theaters?
:popcorn:
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From BEGs link, the comments section:
Wasn't Shrum the Mensa who told John Kerry on election night "May I be the first to say congratulations, Mr. President"
:lmao:
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I know this is a DUmp thread. But I have a semi-serious question.
Do the liberal thinkers really believe that conservatives are as stupid as some portray us on the MSM? Matthews was absolutely shocked when conservatives put up a well-reasoned defense of the overturning of Obamacare. The SG was shockingly unprepared for the reasoned attacks put up against the constitutionality of the individual mandate, after 2 full years to prepare.
I'm not talking DUmmies here, or the assholes on MSNBC or the idiots leading the charge against Zimmerman in Florida. Does the majority of the left actually buy into the idea that those on the right are not as intelligent?
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Does the majority of the left actually buy into the idea that those on the right are not as intelligent?
I'd say so. But, there's one quality that the Right has a lot more of than the Left--COMMON SENSE.
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I know this is a DUmp thread. But I have a semi-serious question.
Do the liberal thinkers really believe that conservatives are as stupid as some portray us on the MSM? Matthews was absolutely shocked when conservatives put up a well-reasoned defense of the overturning of Obamacare. The SG was shockingly unprepared for the reasoned attacks put up against the constitutionality of the individual mandate, after 2 full years to prepare.
I'm not talking DUmmies here, or the assholes on MSNBC or the idiots leading the charge against Zimmerman in Florida. Does the majority of the left actually buy into the idea that those on the right are not as intelligent?
The left are a bunch of overhyped know nothings who do not have an expansive view of the world. They're in a prison that's created by their own conceit. They're in a prison that's the result of their own arrogance and they live in a place where there is no reality. Rush Limbaugh
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From the link that BEG put up; that Tom Paine commenter sounds just like a DUmmie. He'd be so at-home there.
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I re-sorted the comments for newest first. 902 of them. They are fantastic. I like this one:
Walljasper 9 minutes ago 2 Likes
Politicaly INFECTED? With what? A vestigial memory that we are a free people with inalienable rights? That these corrupt politicians and their supporting army of attorneys and toadies are an assault on our rights and freedoms?
Then I welcome that very type of infection.
Bob Shrum is being skinned alive over there...
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This has something to do with the Shrum link I posted above. Today I heard Rush talking about what Kagan said during the deliberations earlier this week.
And the left wonder why we keep winning.
KAGAN: Why is a big gift from the federal government a matter of coercion? In other words, the federal government is here saying: We're giving you a boatload of money. There are no matching funds requirement. There are no extraneous conditions attached to it. It's just a boatload of federal money for you to take and spend on poor people's health care. It doesn't sound coercive to me, I have to tell you.
RUSH: I am sitting here, if you're not watching on Dittocam you can't see me with my mouth all the way open, in stunned disbelief. Folks, this is why all week I have been urging you: Don't think they're smarter than you are. Don't fall for that. Don't grant them that. These are some of the most uninformed, ill-informed, arrogant, conceited people you will ever encounter. I'm not even gonna assume she knows what she's talking about. What it could be is that the federal government is passing the burden of Medicaid to the states. In Obamacare they are off-loading some of the costs to the states. They're demanding that states pick up Medicaid costs, and she is of the belief that the states are gonna get the money that the federal government currently spends on Medicaid, but they aren't. The states aren't going to be able to afford this. And unlike the federal government, they can't go print money.
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Kagan actually said that? WOW!
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Kagan actually said that? WOW!
Yep
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There is going to be violence when Obama loses, mark my words. They are waiting for an excuse.
I'm skeptical. I don't doubt it could happen, but even with top-down encouragement from the likes of Van Jones, violence has been relatively limited. Lots of disgusting stuff and OWS on OWS crime and some isolated attacks but I don't know that the OWS/DUmmie types have the courage to start an all-out civil war. Their plan seems to be to provoke us into violence. Shame us. And thus win public opinion, and with that the election.
If Scott Walker wins his recall election, that could be the bellwether for an 0bama loss.
If Wisconsin can hold the line against the moonbats and flip to "R" in the Presidential election for the first time since 1984, I think, that is all-she-wrote for a second 0bama term.
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I'm skeptical. I don't doubt it could happen, but even with top-down encouragement from the likes of Van Jones, violence has been relatively limited. Lots of disgusting stuff and OWS on OWS crime and some isolated attacks but I don't know that the OWS/DUmmie types have the courage to start an all-out civil war. Their plan seems to be to provoke us into violence. Shame us. And thus win public opinion, and with that the election.
If Scott Walker wins his recall election, that could be the bellwether for an 0bama loss.
If Wisconsin can hold the line against the moonbats and flip to "R" in the Presidential election for the first time since 1984, I think, that is all-she-wrote for a second 0bama term.
Wanna make a bet? We can bet dinner or something. :-)
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Wanna make a bet? We can bet dinner or something. :-)
If either of us are alive after the apocalypse, sure.
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If either of us are alive after the apocalypse, sure.
Oh it's on, like Donkey Kong. :p
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There is going to be violence when Obama loses, mark my words. They are waiting for an excuse.
If he loses (a big IF, I'm afraid), there will be no widespread violence.
You may have a few pockets of 0bamaites setting fire to their own neighborhood, as they are wont to do from time to time, but nothing hazardous to normal people.
The rioters are always looking only for the chance to loot a Best Buy for iPads and widescreens.
The fact is, the vast, vast majority of Americans are either happy with their lives and their country, or are not inclined to become criminals.
The handful of ghetto rats who look for an excuse to score widescreens will be easily crushed by normal law enforcement.
The DUmp's keyboard commandos will never be more than just that.
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Kagan actually said that? WOW!
How about this for 3 dimensional Chess DUmmies?
1) Kagan enters her vote for full Constitutional status for obamacare like a good socialist.
2) In January, the new supermajority (of both houses) Republican HOR impeaches her for violation of federal law (specifically, the one that would require her to recuse herself from this case) and the supermajority Republican Senate convicts, removing her from the USSC.
3) By February 1, 2013, President Romney (or Santorum, or Gingrich) nominates a younger version of Robert Bork to the USSC to replace not only Kennedy (who is widely expected to retire) but also Kagan, guaranteeing a constructionalist majority on the court for decades to come.
Check and Mate you DUmb bitches.
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There is going to be violence when Obama loses, mark my words. They are waiting for an excuse.
With all the egging on by professional race baiters I don't see how it can be avoided. I have to admit that I'm worried for my daughter and her family who live in a city. I'm pretty safe where I am, but she might not be. The next time I visit I'm taking her to the range for lessons. Then I'm talking her into buying a gun instead of the motorcycle she wants so much.
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With all the egging on by professional race baiters I don't see how it can be avoided. I have to admit that I'm worried for my daughter and her family who live in a city. I'm pretty safe where I am, but she might not be. The next time I visit I'm taking her to the range for lessons. Then I'm talking her into buying a gun instead of the motorcycle she wants so much.
Tell her that unless and until she buys a gun AND ammo (kids like to work the "fringes" like that), and becomes proficient in its use, she can kiss the Kawasaki goodbye.
Government may not be able (for now) to tell us what to buy or not buy, but PARENTS have that power, in spades! :-)
http://www.electstevedawes.com/
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How about this for 3 dimensional Chess DUmmies?
1) Kagan enters her vote for full Constitutional status for obamacare like a good socialist.
2) In January, the new supermajority (of both houses) Republican HOR impeaches her for violation of federal law (specifically, the one that would require her to recuse herself from this case) and the supermajority Republican Senate convicts, removing her from the USSC.
3) By February 1, 2013, President Romney (or Santorum, or Gingrich) nominates a younger version of Robert Bork to the USSC to replace not only Kennedy (who is widely expected to retire) but also Kagan, guaranteeing a constructionalist majority on the court for decades to come.
Check and Mate you DUmb bitches.
Exactly. Especially if the replacement for Kagan is this judge (on the DC Circuit Court of Appeals):
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ce/Janice_Rogers_Brown.jpg)
The sound of lefty heads exploding would be a wonderful thing to behold! :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo:
ETA: Forgot again! I wonder what the above Federal judge would think of the information on http://www.electstevedawes.com and said info's relevance to today's events . . .
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RUSH: I am sitting here, if you're not watching on Dittocam you can't see me with my mouth all the way open, in stunned disbelief. Folks, this is why all week I have been urging you: Don't think they're smarter than you are. Don't fall for that. Don't grant them that. These are some of the most uninformed, ill-informed, arrogant, conceited people you will ever encounter. I'm not even gonna assume she knows what she's talking about. What it could be is that the federal government is passing the burden of Medicaid to the states. In Obamacare they are off-loading some of the costs to the states. They're demanding that states pick up Medicaid costs, and she is of the belief that the states are gonna get the money that the federal government currently spends on Medicaid, but they aren't. The states aren't going to be able to afford this. And unlike the federal government, they can't go print money.
I love him. I wanted to name my last son after him but hubby was a no go :bawl:
I would marry him in a hot minute :naughty: