The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Carl on May 09, 2008, 08:20:48 PM
-
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3265091 (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3265091)
MN Against Bush (1000+ posts) Fri May-09-08 07:10 PM
Original message
Some of us do understand the right-wing. Some of us understand them far too well.
Advertisements [?]
There are many who accuse those of us on the left end of the political spectrum of being partisan ideologues who are simply unable to understand where the other side is coming from.
But some of us do understand where the other side is coming from, some of us understand it far too well.
I understand right-wing ideology because I used to be a right-wing ideologue. I started my political life as a Libertarian, and for a while I believed very strongly in Libertarian principles. I was told about a magic system called the “free market†which was supposed to bring about freedom and prosperity for all. They told me that if we just slashed taxes, eliminated government services, and stopped regulating corporations we would all be better off. They told me not to worry about global warming because they said it was junk science, they told me not to worry about corporations abusing their power because consumers would always choose an ethical business over an unethical one and so the market would give corporations an incentive to regulate themselves, they told me to trust in the market and so I trusted in the market.
My trust was violated.
It turned out that all those “scientists†they brought out to tell me that global warming was a hoax had been paid off by the oil companies to come to their conclusions and none of them had been peer reviewed. And everything they told me about the market being able to regulate itself was a lie. In reality consumers did not always choose the ethical company over the unethical ones, and more often than not the companies with the biggest profits had the most unethical business practices. Wal-Mart would make billions by exploiting workers while the friendly mom-and-pop stores down the street would be forced to close their doors because they could not compete. Exxon would rake in record profits by gouging the consumer while companies striving to make cheap renewable energy were unable to get off the ground. Time and time again we would see the so-called “free-market†benefit the most unethical corporations while the small businesses who treated their customers and employees well were forced to go out of business. When I started to see the greed and corruption which consumes corporate America my right-wing ideology could not hold up any longer. I was being lied to, and I knew that I needed to go in search of the truth.
I spent many hours on the internet reading up on abuses of power by the government and corporations, I started to understand progressive views and the more I started to understand them the more I started to realize just how much sense they made. Once I started to learn the facts my ideology rapidly shifted, and in just a short period of time I went from being a right-wing ideologue to being an outspoken leftist.
We are always being told that we need to move to the center to win over voters, but I was not moved by centrist ideology I was moved by leftists and progressives like Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, and Michael Moore. I was moved by those who spoke out loudly and passionately about what they believed in.
Now some people think that sounds crazy, many people think if a person is going to genuinely move from one end of the political spectrum to the other it is going to happen gradually. But the fact is when a person realizes they are wrong it makes a lot more sense to move to the correct position immediately rather than stopping halfway between right and wrong.
And let's be clear politics is ultimately about right and wrong. While the media may try to treat it as a game and constantly focusing on polling and who won this or that debate, the fact is that politics is not a game it is something that has a profound impact on our daily lives. The decisions made by people in power can often be life or death decisions for many people. Politicians decide whether or not people get sent off to die in war, they decide the laws which determine whether or not people will have access to health care, they decide what regulations are in place to protect our environment, these are serious issues and we can not reduce politics to being simply a game in which we cheer for our own side.
Ultimately as human beings we all have the same basic interests. We all want to live our lives peacefully, we don't want our homes to be foreclosed, we don't want to be denied health care when we are sick, we don't want to go hungry because we can't afford to buy food, we don't want war to destroy our homes and our lives, we don't want to drink polluted war or breath toxic air, as humans we all have basic interests no matter what our ideology. Yet quite often a person's ideology goes against their own interests as human beings, and most of them do not realize it. But when a person does realize that their belief system is going against their own interests as humans, many of them are going to start thinking differently.
When I realized my belief system did not reflect the interests that we hold as human beings I knew I had to change them very quickly. Now my goal in life is to show others the truth about my former ideology. While I am certainly not proud of the fact that I used to hold right-wing views, my time with the right-wing has helped me to see the flaws in their logic in ways which I would have never been able to if I had not bought into their crap. Those of us on the left are often accused of not listening to the other side, but I have listened to the other side and that is why I am a leftist because I now realize just how absurd the views I once held really are.
The right-wing lied to me, they betrayed me, and they betrayed this nation. It is now my duty as an American citizen to do everything in my power to show just how destructive their ideology is.
:yawn:
I sort of stopped after the first paragraph when he hit his talking points about global warming.
The comments though.... ::)
Rageneau (1000+ posts) Fri May-09-08 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. Some of us understand them better than you -- which is why we NEVER fell for their BS
I knew and always have known that every right-wing talking point was just another way to excuse their personal greed, prejudice, xenophobia and unrestrained paranoia.
I always knew better than to join the KKK, too, for the same reason.
It is easy to find out if you are on the right political side: just feel where the hate is coming from, and there you'll find the right wing (including the ones in disaguise.
If DUmmies know anything about anything it is hate,personal greed and paranoia. :rotf:
ayeshahaqqiqa (1000+ posts) Fri May-09-08 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
2. Well said!
I've always seen the right wing ideology as one of self interest, while, by and large, the left wingers were looking at what was good for everyone.
As you whine and carp endlessly about what you don`t have and how unfair everything is.
DUmbfuk
Dr_eldritch (1000+ posts) Fri May-09-08 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
6. I haven't changed my registration yet...
but this Republican is with you.
I have the capacity to engage in real, critical thinking. I have a keen sense for the abstract. I can see the dynamic of large functioning systems at a glance.
The right-wing ideology of my parents could never have survived very long in me. I realized that for certain in 2000, and I dropped all affinity for "balance". Since then, the more I have learned, which I can describe in excruciating detail, the more I have realized how completely and totally fooled those on the 'right' are. They have no idea how perfectly managed they are by the corporate media to be nothing more than sheep for fleecing and a buffer against populist reforms.
They have been infused with a 'sport's fan' mentality, and will root for and defend their 'team' no matter how many penalties they commit, how badly they destroy the field, or how much they gouge us all at the concession stands. They will perceive any attack on their 'side' as partisan rather than an attempt to seek social justice or improve the lives of working Americans. They will actively fight against their own best interests because they are told 'we' who want to stop the fleecing of America are 'the enemy'.
It makes me sick to realize just how deeply ignorant, not entirely through any fault of their own, so many of our fellow Americans are. But they would read this, and instead of asking "how can you say that? Please show me what you mean", they are programmed to say, "You're an elitist who thinks you're smarter than we are and thinks you know what's best for us."
They really don't want to know, and they don't know they don't want to know.
We have a hell of a fight ahead, and our own people have been turned against us by the forces of greed with the power of ignorance.
No I think you are an elitist that is dumber then dirt and your garbled words prove it.
You pacify yourself by thinking you are brilliant so that makes you a fool besides.
leftofthedial (1000+ posts) Fri May-09-08 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. the post-WWII American right-wing ideology is UTTERLY corrupt
nothing about it is true in the slightest.
As the successes of any left wing endeavors has proven.
Things like the Soviet Union...
Oh I forgot they and China had to resort to some form of Capitalism too.
We don`t have to make things up or call the night day.
-
How long did it take him to think that up and actually type it?
-
How long did it take him to think that up and actually type it?
Yeah I wondered that too.
Over a thousand posts and now writing a thread about how he is a former Conservative. ::)
Just another "pat me on the back" bouncy that the primitives will all lap up.
-
Rageneau (1000+ posts) Fri May-09-08 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. Some of us understand them better than you -- which is why we NEVER fell for their BS
I knew and always have known that every right-wing talking point was just another way to excuse their personal greed, prejudice, xenophobia and unrestrained paranoia.
(http://files.turbosquid.com/Preview/Content_on_1_22_2004_15_50_38/projector_3ds_01.jpg467d760d-7aa6-4aee-8079-c36f0964f10eLarge.jpg)
-
I understand right-wing ideology because I used to be a right-wing ideologue. I started my political life as a Libertarian, and for a while I believed very strongly in Libertarian principles. I was told about a magic system called the “free market†which was supposed to bring about freedom and prosperity for all.
This is where I stopped reading. No one ever says that a "free market" is "suppose to bring about freedom and prosperity for all". It brings about the opportunity, which is all any true "right-winger" has ever said. Opportunity is something the left-wing cannot offer. All they can offer is dependency and equal misery.
No Honest-To-God "right-winger" could EVER become a left-winger unless a head injury is involved. It is really as simple as that. If no head injury was involved, the claimed converted left-winger is lying about his past, which would be no surprise to anyone of any intelligence.
-
I was told about a magic system called the “free market†which was supposed to bring about freedom and prosperity for all.
Translation: The free market does not mail everyone a check like gubmint welfare does, therefore it is not a legitimate means to "prosperity".
pros·per
–verb (used without object) 1. to be successful or fortunate, esp. in financial respects; thrive; flourish.
How exactly does one "prosper" in a socialist system, where achievment is penalized through confiscatory tax rates and the unambitious are kept that way through mediocre but regular entitlements?
The OP and it's following responses prove that they just don't get it.
-
Now wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.
How long ago was the Minnesota primitive a "right-wing ideologue"?
The Minnesota primitive's been on Skins's island for a very long time.
The Minnesota primitive mentions his mind was changed because of the "global warming" theory.
The "global warming" theory is how old?
Maybe a year and a half old, when Alphonse Capote Gore made it into an "issue"?
The Minnesota primitive was long an inhabitant on Skins's island when "global warming" came up.
I don't think the Minnesota primitive was ever what the Minnesota primitive alleges he was. I suspect the Minnesota primitive has always been a primitive, and isn't some sort of "convert."
-
Now wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.
How long ago was the Minnesota primitive a "right-wing ideologue"?
The Minnesota primitive's been on Skins's island for a very long time.
The Minnesota primitive mentions his mind was changed because of the "global warming" theory.
The "global warming" theory is how old?
Maybe a year and a half old, when Alphonse Capote Gore made it into an "issue"?
The Minnesota primitive was long an inhabitant on Skins's island when "global warming" came up.
I don't think the Minnesota primitive was ever what the Minnesota primitive alleges he was. I suspect the Minnesota primitive has always been a primitive, and isn't some sort of "convert."
As my old Pappy would say, "The truth ain't in 'im."
-
It turned out that all those “scientists†they brought out to tell me that global warming was a hoax had been paid off by the oil companies to come to their conclusions and none of them had been peer reviewed.
Dr Freeman Dyson says you are a liar.
And everything they told me about the market being able to regulate itself was a lie. In reality consumers did not always choose the ethical company over the unethical ones, and more often than not the companies with the biggest profits had the most unethical business practices.
Speaking of unethical, give my regards to Jason Leopold, TiT,walldude and William Pitt sometime, will you?
Wal-Mart would make billions by exploiting workers while the friendly mom-and-pop stores down the street would be forced to close their doors because they could not compete
The workers at WalMart want to be there and no one is making them stay.They can leave whenever they want.Its free market...I am sorry businesses close, but thats how it works.
Exxon would rake in record profits by gouging the consumer while companies striving to make cheap renewable energy were unable to get off the ground
George Soros rakes in millions in share revenue from the masses of stock he bought in a company he claims to revile..Halliburton. Same with Michael Moore.
Oh dear, we are back to unethical again. Oh..add hypocrisy.
Time and time again we would see the so-called “free-market†benefit the most unethical corporations while the small businesses who treated their customers and employees well were forced to go out of business.
How much is Teresa Heinz-Kerry worth again?
When I started to see the greed and corruption which consumes corporate America my right-wing ideology could not hold up any longer. I was being lied to, and I knew that I needed to go in search of the truth.
Did you find it in 24 business hours?
I spent many hours on the internet reading up on abuses of power by the government and corporations, I started to understand progressive views and the more I started to understand them the more I started to realize just how much sense they made.
Addiction to DU rots the brain. Get help now.
Once I started to learn the facts my ideology rapidly shifted, and in just a short period of time I went from being a right-wing ideologue to being an outspoken leftist.
Now you only have two brain cells left..one's lost, the other is out looking for it.
We are always being told that we need to move to the center to win over voters, but I was not moved by centrist ideology I was moved by leftists and progressives like Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, and Michael Moore. I was moved by those who spoke out loudly and passionately about what they believed in.
A clown, a fool and a pathological liar. Right, great role models...
Now some people think that sounds crazy,
Whaddya mean... think??? :hyper: :hyper:
But the fact is when a person realizes they are wrong it makes a lot more sense to move to the correct position immediately rather than stopping halfway between right and wrong.
I'd say you were halfway between confsed and batshit insane.
And let's be clear politics is ultimately about right and wrong.
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
-
I spent many hours on the internet reading up on abuses of power by the government and corporations, I started to understand progressive views and the more I started to understand them the more I started to realize just how much sense they made. Once I started to learn the facts my ideology rapidly shifted, and in just a short period of time I went from being a right-wing ideologue to being an outspoken leftist. ...
Um-m-m...
Conservatives want reduced government because of government abuses.
We oppose socialism because its centralized governments are abusive.
So now he wants total government control by a few elites to cure the abuses of a few elites.
I'm calling BS.
-
I understand right-wing ideology because I used to be a right-wing ideologue. I started my political life as a Libertarian,
Since when are the Libertarians a hugh! bastion of the VRWC sect?
-
Had to have typed that while looking in a mirror.
-
You don't understand at all. You've built for yourself a stereotype that allows you to believe yourselves superior to those you disagree with. Seems rather ironic, however, that with all your intelligence you've yet to rise above, to overcome us "knuckledraggers" and solve all the world's problems. Heck I'd be angry and constantly indignant too. You tell yourselves that you're oh-so-tolerant because you've convinced yourselves that "if it feels good do it" somehow makes you special, not just tolerant but embracing. It gives you permission to do whatever you want without judgement...without responsibility. Still, one would think if not having a moral backbone, a set of standards (don't eat the brown acid is NOT a standard) was right you folks would be happier and more fulfilled. The problem is, you're deathly afraid of any kind of real self-examination. To you deep introspection means going on DU and making sure your "beliefs" haven't changed and you have the correct PC lingo for the coming week.
And how many threads do we see over there bemoaning the plight of the poor? Of course it's everyone else's fault (especially those greedy Republicans and their corporate overlords). The problem, as the old saying goes, of pointing your finger at someone else is that you have 3 fingers pointed back at yourself. Because the same people who were "feeling, I mean really feeling" the pain of poverty will show up on another thread talking about their cruise, the latest trip to Europe, that new car, etc. On the poverty thread you'll be compassionately wishing you could DO something to help...you're just barely getting by yourself. On the vacation thread you'll be posting pictures and talking about how much better things are in "insert favorite socialist country here".
Meanwhile there are church youth groups all over the country doing fund raisers all year long just so they can spend their summer in some of the poorest hell holes in the world. They'll build schools, fix roofs, teach about farming and sanitation, play with children, bring them shoes & toys. They'll come back with a better appreciation of their own lives and an understanding of REAL poverty much more profound than images from a Discovery Channel special. Because of this deeply personal, self-sacrificing journey (what are YOUR teens doing this summer DU) they'll not only gain greater insights into themselves, but they'll forever understand how important it is to give when that collection plate comes around every Sunday. And Christians are supposed to be the hypocrits...go figure.
Never having to grow up (i.e. letting the government be your parent until the day you die) means you don't have to take responsibility for anything you do, the real harm you cause. You get pregnant because you **** everything that moves...just have an abortion. Sure you might have cramps for a while, but it's better than being saddled with a child. And you can always convince yourself that you're saving the planet from having another carbon footprint. The world is overpopulated as it is, there's no reason to bring an "unwanted" child into the world...aren't you just so noble! How sick and twisted do you have to be to turn the murder of an innocent baby into a brave act of compassion. Nevermind there are couples that would give anything for the child you're willing to stab in the back of the head and throw into a dumpster. At least you're not uptight like those "fundies" on the right...they're SO intolerant. Abortion is murder...AS IF...why the hell should you spend 9 months of your life carrying a child you're going to dispose of anyway? It would probably be adopted by some Republican couple who would raise it to believe abstinence was actually a choice.
The thing is, true compassion means more than just accepting people where they are...it means loving them and believing in them enough to help them see what they could become. That can't happen when you spend most of your time whining and feeling sorry for yourself. To paraphrase one of the myriad "compassionate" bumper stickers I see sandwiched between the "BUCK FUSH" and "Out of Iraq NOW" stickers..."Self-Indulgence is NOT a Family Value". Suck on that, DUmmie.
Cindie
-
You don't understand at all. You've built for yourself a stereotype that allows you to believe yourselves superior to those you disagree with. Seems rather ironic, however, that with all your intelligence you've yet to rise above, to overcome us "knuckledraggers" and solve all the world's problems. Heck I'd be angry and constantly indignant too. You tell yourselves that you're oh-so-tolerant because you've convinced yourselves that "if it feels good do it" somehow makes you special, not just tolerant but embracing. It gives you permission to do whatever you want without judgement...without responsibility. Still, one would think if not having a moral backbone, a set of standards (don't eat the brown acid is NOT a standard) was right you folks would be happier and more fulfilled. The problem is, you're deathly afraid of any kind of real self-examination. To you deep introspection means going on DU and making sure your "beliefs" haven't changed and you have the correct PC lingo for the coming week.
And how many threads do we see over there bemoaning the plight of the poor? Of course it's everyone else's fault (especially those greedy Republicans and their corporate overlords). The problem, as the old saying goes, of pointing your finger at someone else is that you have 3 fingers pointed back at yourself. Because the same people who were "feeling, I mean really feeling" the pain of poverty will show up on another thread talking about their cruise, the latest trip to Europe, that new car, etc. On the poverty thread you'll be compassionately wishing you could DO something to help...you're just barely getting by yourself. On the vacation thread you'll be posting pictures and talking about how much better things are in "insert favorite socialist country here".
Meanwhile there are church youth groups all over the country doing fund raisers all year long just so they can spend their summer in some of the poorest hell holes in the world. They'll build schools, fix roofs, teach about farming and sanitation, play with children, bring them shoes & toys. They'll come back with a better appreciation of their own lives and an understanding of REAL poverty much more profound than images from a Discovery Channel special. Because of this deeply personal, self-sacrificing journey (what are YOUR teens doing this summer DU) they'll not only gain greater insights into themselves, but they'll forever understand how important it is to give when that collection plate comes around every Sunday. And Christians are supposed to be the hypocrits...go figure.
Never having to grow up (i.e. letting the government be your parent until the day you die) means you don't have to take responsibility for anything you do, the real harm you cause. You get pregnant because you **** everything that moves...just have an abortion. Sure you might have cramps for a while, but it's better than being saddled with a child. And you can always convince yourself that you're saving the planet from having another carbon footprint. The world is overpopulated as it is, there's no reason to bring an "unwanted" child into the world...aren't you just so noble! How sick and twisted do you have to be to turn the murder of an innocent baby into a brave act of compassion. Nevermind there are couples that would give anything for the child you're willing to stab in the back of the head and throw into a dumpster. At least you're not uptight like those "fundies" on the right...they're SO intolerant. Abortion is murder...AS IF...why the hell should you spend 9 months of your life carrying a child you're going to dispose of anyway? It would probably be adopted by some Republican couple who would raise it to believe abstinence was actually a choice.
The thing is, true compassion means more than just accepting people where they are...it means loving them and believing in them enough to help them see what they could become. That can't happen when you spend most of your time whining and feeling sorry for yourself. To paraphrase one of the myriad "compassionate" bumper stickers I see sandwiched between the "BUCK FUSH" and "Out of Iraq NOW" stickers..."Self-Indulgence is NOT a Family Value". Suck on that, DUmmie.
Cindie
You keep racking up the H5s . . . !
-
Well said Cindie. DUmmies (LIBERALS) can never accept God with their current mindset, to do so would be to admit that there was something more important and more powerful than themselves and government. It would mean they would have to answer to someone for their behavior. To accept God would mean that they could no longer embrace their true God, LIBERALISM. It was also put them at conflict with one of their true beliefs, that being that abortion is a good thing. They are lost souls.
-
Well said Cindie. DUmmies (LIBERALS) can never accept God with their current mindset, to do so would be to admit that there was something more important and more powerful than themselves and government. It would mean they would have to answer to someone for their behavior. To accept God would mean that they could no longer embrace their true God, LIBERALISM. It was also put them at conflict with one of their true beliefs, that being that abortion is a good thing. They are lost souls.
Perhaps there's something in Sigmund Freud, but I haven't come across it yet, still digging into Freud's idea that most psychological and psychiatric quirks are based upon some physical problem in, or mistreatment of, the evacutory end of the alimentary canal.
Anyway, as we all know, yes, primitives believe that government and the primitives themselves are the most perfect, most strongest, most best, entities on the "planet;" that they are God, and can destroy this "planet" and all in it at will.
But at the same time, the primitives admit their, uh, rather substantial weaknesses and impotencies.
I can't reconcile the two; that the primitives are God, and that the primitives are weak and powerless to control their own lives.