The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: franksolich on February 19, 2012, 07:32:24 PM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/1158500
Oh my.
quakerboy (9,625 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
Circular saw reccomendation wanted
My consideration factors so far: Price. Durability. Country of manufacture. I don't know if there is anything else I need to consider.
My current project is only about 10 boards to cut, maybe 30 cuts if I am really sloppy about it. But I am sure I would find other things that need cutting eventually, if I had a saw.
Harbor Freight will sell me a cheap saw for 30 bucks. That seems to be the low end possibility. It would meet my needs for the current project, but I have doubts about the longevity. But it does have a laser!?!
Milwaukie says some of their saws are made in the US. However, on a trip to HD, every single Milwaukie item read "professionally made in china". I hear some Makita are made in USA, but I couldn't find any. There was one made in Japan(the 5007MG), which I was tempted by, and seem to get good reviews online. Black and Decker had a Mexican made model. None of the others at HD were anything but Chinese manufacture.
If I am going to pay more than the minimum, I would really prefer to have one with US manufacturing, or at the least not made in china. I haven't bought many tools, but experience with other things leads me to believe that bottom line manufacturing makes cheap implements, and there's not much point in paying for a name without an actual increase in quality.
What do I need to know that I do not know? What am I overlooking? Is there a perfect saw out there that I should be aware of?
franksolich uses something called a "hand-saw."
No electricity, hence no carbon footprint, and it's good exercise.
And if the primitives need something, it's exercise.
digonswine (579 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
1. If you are cutting boards-you might want a table saw.
If you want to cut plywood, etc-the circular saw-you said sloppy, so assume the circular saw is fine.
I have a Dewalt 368k corded circular saw. It is easily the best I've used--hundreds of cuts-
It, though, is made in China.
You seem to want a decent saw. I would tend to stay away from Harbor Freight unless you want junkers that break and are not worth fixing.
I would also stay away from the cordless circular saws-they seem underpowered and make poorer cuts.
I've heard good things about Makitas as well.
What is this primitive bias against Chinese-made products?
It's a really strong bias on Skins's island; the primitives abhor Chinese-made products.
What do they have against supporting their fellow socialists over there? Maybe they don't like yellow people?
quakerboy (9,625 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
2. A table saw is too much
I have nowhere to store one. I can make enough room for a handheld.
I considered the cordless, but the increase in cost and the likely decrease in longevity and power did not seem worth it.
Right now my top two under consideration were the Makita 5007mg, or the harbor freight special.
The Makita seems likely to be better quality. But I can buy 5 from harbor freight for the same price as the 1 Makita at Home Depot. So I could buy one, use it for the project, and donate it to good will, buy another one in a year or three when I come up with a new project, and still be ahead on price. Unless one harbor freight cheapie is likely to be unable to handle even one small project.
Wash. state Desk Jet (1,758 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
3. A skill saw hua !
I don't think you need a 15 amp. motar in yer saw, 12-13 amps is fine.
I have owned and used about all name brands on jobs. I keep a makita in my truck always because it is a good saw and is light weight. I can't really say how many hundreds of cuts I have made with that saw.That particular saw costs about $50.00 ,it is not the 15 amp motar so it is the lesser although contractor grade. Black& Decker or Skill same company is ok for what you want to do or will want to do.
I am advising against max. draw on amps. because you will be using that saw in yer home and you don't want to throw circuit breakers.Yers is a condo if I recall correctly or have you moved? Refer'en to your bed building project a ways back in time !
I think yer in the $50.00-$60.00 category.Look around.
I actually have about six skill saws maybe more- but I like that light weight Makita these days !
I like two others because ah, well-more power !
I think a good milwaukie runs about $150.00 these days. I've burned out two of those. Actually my old /Sears Craftsman contractor skill saw ,I sware cannot burn out! But it weighs a lot and of course has more power !It's very old too ! Yep,old as the hills !
About fifty bucks-there-there abouts.
jeff47 (2,881 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
4. Harbor Freight is not a good place to buy tools
Every tool I've tried to buy there has broken under normal wear in a ridiculously short period of time. For example, the pry bar that snapped in less than a day. Replaced, and the replacement snapped in less than a day.
Basically, you pay for a 'throw away' tool at Harbor Freight, and then you go buy the real tool from somewhere else. Might as well go somewhere else first.
As for your specific question, there's a reason the slang for circular saws is "Skillsaw". Skill makes a fantastic tool (The Craftsman worm-drive saw is a re-badged Skill).
As for what you need to know, there's two basic designs for circular saw. Direct drive and worm-drive. In a direct drive, the blade is, shockingly enough, directly connected to the motor. The blade is on one side, and you can see the motor directly hanging off the other side. With a worm drive saw, the motor is 90 degrees from the saw blade.
Worm drive saws are more powerful, much less likely to bind and narrower, making them easier to fit in small places. These features are the reasons why pros all use worm drive saws. The primary thing non-pros dislike about worm drive saws is they kick when you start them - right as the saw starts up, it will jerk counterclockwise. Once you're used to it it isn't a big deal, but it is surprising if you've never used one. As for which manufacturer, I frankly haven't heard anyone complain about any of the major tool brands. I stick with Skill, but that's mostly because that's what I've always used.
Direct drive saws are usually lighter and cheaper, which has made them popular among homeowners and others that don't have a ton of lumber to cut. They also don't have the jerk on start. The down side is they are much less powerful and more likely to bind.
Tesha (19,830 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
7. The other kind of saw *ISN'T* direct drive.
View profile
Instead of a worm gear, though, they use spur or helical gears. But they're still geared. Otherwise, the motor wouldn't fit when the saw blade is set to a maximum-depth cut.
jeff47 (2,881 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
8. Actually, the helical/spur ones are new
At least "new" relative to this old fart.
Direct drive is still common. It's one of the reasons such saws usually feature a shallower cut, as you noted.
Tesha (19,830 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
9. Sorry; even my old '70s vintage saws are geared. I have *NEVER* seen a direct drive 7-1/2" Skilsaw.
Tesha (19,830 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
5. Mr. Tesha owns two portable circular saw: a Craftsman he bought...
and an almost identical Craftsman that his dad bought.
Both continue to work fine and have been more-than-sufficient for his needs even though neither is a worm-
drive saw. These were bought long before lasers.
When our daughter needed to lay flooring throughout the entire second story of her house, Mr. Tesha helped
them buy a nice Makita *WITH* lasers (front and rear, IIRC). That Makita did that whole job and is still going
strong.
I don't think he'd buy the Harbor Freight saw; even if it lived through your job, cheap tools are usually a lot
less-pleasant to use than good tools and don't do good work nearly as easily as do better tools.
Wash. state Desk Jet (1,758 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
6. A good side winder is all you need .
Actually a worm drive is a saw you really need to have experience using . You are moving up from hand tools to power tools- stay with the basic side winder skill saw for now.
Read the amperage draw on the saws specs., 11.5 ,12,13 or 15 amps. that determines the power of the motar. 12 or 13 amp. draw is fine for what you want to do or will want to do. Of course a 15 amp saw is best fer the power.
You can buy a $35.oo saw everyday in most stores that sell tools such as home depot or other such places- you come up to the fifty dollar range there abouts in name brands and you will do better.Pro grades run about $100.00 to $150.00 .
The key to a long life of a saw is sharp blades. Forcing the cut using dull blades will burn out the motar sooner rather than later.Good blades run about ten bucks.
Tis true about Harbor Freight tools-better to stear clear of those on that particular tool.
Kolesar (26,451 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
10. The Black and Decker Store at the "outlet mall" has great prices
We shopped at this mall : http://www.premiumoutlets.com/grovecity
We bought four tools and the only one that failed is one I got plaster dust into the innards.
Black & Decker is the only brand of power tools franksolich has ever owned and used.
Of course, franksolich uses power tools maybe three times every two years, so I dunno about endurance; but all of these are from my college days when I worked part-time in wholesale hardware, meaning they're damned near thirty years old, and work as good as brand-new.
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The kind of people that democrat politicians worry so much about stole all(3) of my like new 1960's era American made 'SKIL' circular saws.
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We use the Harbor Freight 800w generators up at deer camp to light the lights we've installed (gasoline is cheaper than propane). Our asshole lawyer (not as obnoxious a Dem as the treasurer, but a Dem nonetheless) found out that these things don't make good chock blocks for backhoes. Said that it sounded like a giant walnut being cracked open, and the suspension never moved. Another one of our guys had one with a warranty on it, and he brought back the crushed one . . . the counter guys at the Harbor Freight in Colonie got a pretty good laugh over that one. Their one question--"Is there any gas in it?" But, they gave us a new one. We kept it clear of the backhoe after that.
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Oh, he needs a table saw and a router! :wink:
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My dad builds cabinets and buys tools from Harbor Freight. As far as I know he's never had a problem.
Is it possible that tools behave differently for dems?
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I don't know why they dis Harbor Freight. I got a parts washer, engine stand, chain sharpener for my chain saw chains, and a $75 wire-feed welder. All made in China, all more than 10 years old, all still working.
My saw is a 6 inch Skil I inherited from my ex-fil when he died back in 1990, and I have a 60 year old Black & Decker 8 inch (good luck finding blades for it) I inherited from my dad back in 1997. Both need cords, but still work, and work great.
I would have no problem buying a Milwaukee Electric saw from Harbor Freight which is a fairly good quality line, better than any DUmmie would need.
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My dad builds cabinets and buys tools from Harbor Freight. As far as I know he's never had a problem.
Is it possible that tools behave differently for dems?
Yeah, and when they don't work as intended/expected, "It's All Bush's Faulttm"
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I've got a Makita Circular saw and a Makita compound mitre saw.
Both are excellent tools.
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I've got a couple Bosch and Skil saws out in the storgae building, don't frrl like walking outside to see exactly where they are made. Suffice to say, I looked at the brand new (reconditioned, less tha $60) compound miter saw inside and it was made in China. The one thing though is it is from Robert Bosch Tool Corporation which is based in Illinois. So, is that an American tool or Chinese tool? I understand it was made in China, but by an American company. They used to make the Bosch tools here in America and still make some of em here, but due to trying to survive as a company had to move where it was better for the company.
Just buy a damn skil saw DUmmy, regardless of who makes it.
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I've got a couple Bosch and Skil saws out in the storgae building, don't frrl like walking outside to see exactly where they are made. Suffice to say, I looked at the brand new (reconditioned, less tha $60) compound miter saw inside and it was made in China. The one thing though is it is from Robert Bosch Tool Corporation which is based in Illinois. So, is that an American tool or Chinese tool? I understand it was made in China, but by an American company. They used to make the Bosch tools here in America and still make some of em here, but due to trying to survive as a company had to move where it was better for the company.
Just buy a damn skil saw DUmmy, regardless of who makes it.
CH, you know as well as I do that everything in a DUmmie's life revolves around politics. Everything.
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The 30 gallon air compressor that DH got from Harbor Freight years ago is still running strong. The only reason for it's recent replacement is that he stumbled on a good deal for a 60 gallon one.
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CH, you know as well as I do that everything in a DUmmie's life revolves around politics. Everything.
A DUmmie's life can be described as what revolves around in the toilet when it's flushed! :lmao:
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A DUmmie's life can be described as what revolves around in the toilet when it's flushed! :lmao:
Target! Cease-fire; continue to bound! H5!
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A primitive and a circular saw, eh ?
That'll end well..
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I've got a Makita Circular saw and a Makita compound mitre saw.
Both are excellent tools.
My antiquities--Black & Decker power tools from the 1970s (they may be different now, I dunno)--came about simply because I was working my way through college at a wholesale hardware place, where employees were allowed to purchase any inventory at cost (the cost to the wholesaler, not to the retailers the wholesaler sold to).
Being a shallow callow lad still in my teens, I thought, "Hey, I'm making all this money, and tools are a good investment." So I invested, and invested much.
Everything I bought was top-of-the-line brands and makes. And I bought lots.
I had a vague notion such excellent tools would be useful for me, forgetting to remember that no, I wasn't ever likely to become a good craftsman, which of course I never did.
Despite that all these things are nearly new and hardly used (if used at all) the past thirty years, I suppose I could've done worse as a stupid college kid; I could've maybe spent the money on dope instead of tools.
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No way in hell would i buy a circular saw at Harbor Freight...toolbox or hand tool yes power saw? No way. All of my power tools are either Porter Cable or Makita. I refuse to buy cheap power tools. It's a complete waste of money and it's always bit me in the ass in the long run.
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I don't know why they dis Harbor Freight. I got a parts washer, engine stand, chain sharpener for my chain saw chains, and a $75 wire-feed welder. All made in China, all more than 10 years old, all still working.
The cheap Harbor Freight stuff is a lot like Black & Decker or Skil 'Homeowner' lines, except cheaper and without the brand name...i.e., fine for occasional use, but won't reliably* stand up to being used day-in, day-out. I have some cheap tools and some pro-grade ones, but when you can buy five of the cheap ones for the price of a pro-grade one, and you're just going to use it a few times a year, it makes more sense to go with cheap.
*I'm sure a given one might last a lifetime, but that's luck, not MTBF.
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The only things that I will buy from Harbor Freight are NMP, No Moving Parts. Craftsman Industrial line used to be made by Porter Cable and are great tools. I still have a circular saw , 1/2 inch hammer drill, and a router that are over 30 years old and run great. I have lots of Hitachi tools and think they make good stuff (from Japan) but the latest impact driver I bought ended up to be made in China but has been working hard for almost two years and I love the Li-On batteries. If you do any screwing the impact driver is the way to go. I have not stripped out any phillips head screws with it and they are cheaper than square or Torx screws.
Like most everything, it only hurts once when you buy quality.