The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Skul on January 26, 2012, 07:41:28 AM
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Justifying forced union membership by not calling it "forced".
Just something else. :banghead:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002222167
Let's sit by the fire and observe.
BiggJawn
Wed Jan 25, 2012, 08:31 PM
There is NO "forced" Union membership.
Last edited Wed Jan 25, 2012, 08:35 PM USA/ET - Edit history (3)
People get things mixed up. I think the erroneous assumption that you can be "forced" to join a Union No assumption at all, just a fact in your workplace may have contributed to Indiana becoming the newest participant in the slide to The Bottom.
The way it used to be, you hired into a place with a Union, you had the choice to join the Union and become a card-carrying member or not join the Union. You do NOT get a choice.
Now, the Union is required by law to represent ALL employees in the shop, member or not. You don't belong to the Union, doesn't matter, you get the SAME pay and benefits as the other guys in your gang who are members. Also, when you come back from lunch drunk, the Union has to go fight for your job, too. No they don't. Under the bus with you, union or not, you are gone.
The way this worked is, if you were, for some damn stupid reason, philosophically opposed to belonging to a Union, You won't have a job. you didn't have to carry a card. True. You can leave leave it at home, BUT, you will have one regardless. what you DID have to do, (forced) however, is pay for your representation. (can you say FORCED?) They go to bat for you, they bargain for benefits and safety equipment, and defend your job (important in an "Employment-at-Will state like Indiana) Isn't it only fair that you pay your share of this? Isn't it "forced when you're required to pay for something you don't want? Such as government mandated health insurance?
Now under the soon-to-become-law "Right-to-Work" law, you don't have to pay for your representation. you get ALL the benefits of Union membership and it won't cost you one Gawd-damn DIME! happy days! You get to FREELOAD off your co-workers who belong to the Union. Pretty soon, Union membership starts to drop. Might even come to the point where a motion to disband passes 4-1 (yeah, only 5 dues-paying members left) and you're working in a 100% union-FREE shop. So comes the day when the workforce is about 1% union in the state. It's possible, that could be a good thing.
Without the threat of employees organizing a union, what's going to keep the bosses from cutting pay and making working conditions less pleasant? Hmmm? Federal and state laws, that's what.
I can't believe anybody who calls themselves a Democrat socialist would support something like "Right-to-Work"(for less) Stop insulting real Democrats, it makes them look bad.
Seems a few folks disagree to a point.
Then this interesting tidbit pops up.
Read the bold.
Response to BiggJawn (Original post)
Wed Jan 25, 2012, 08:37 PM
Honeycombe8 (9,013 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
1. I don't know about unions being forced to represent non-union members,....
but workers are in a way forced to join a union, if everyone knows who and who isn't a member. Peer pressure.
I grew up in a union town. They took their unions seriously. Even if you had the right to cross the picket line during a strike, you'd best not do that, or you'd be dead. Unioners stood on the line with shotguns.
Still, I fully support unions. Just because of a few bad apples (the crime, the mafia, the killings, the shakedowns), doesn't wipe away all that unions have done for the middle class.
Response to orpupilofnature57 (Reply #2)
Wed Jan 25, 2012, 08:46 PM
teddy51 (1,638 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
4. Yep, "Closed shop" tells it all. You must join the Union in a closed shop, no if's, and's or buts.
Mole?
ACKKK!!! CONTROL-ALT-DELETE
Must change name to reflect new thought.
Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #6)
Wed Jan 25, 2012, 09:29 PM
Saving Hawaii (283 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
9. You're talking about an agency shop.
Closed shops got banned by Taft-Hartley and were also found to be unconstitutional. Wikipedia is your friend.
Someone unzips their pants.
Response to BiggJawn (Original post)
Thu Jan 26, 2012, 05:57 AM
boppers (15,302 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
15. "what you DID have to do, however, is pay for your representation"
Yes, and **** organized crime.
May need to check the firering in a few hours, to see if there are any embers left.
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So let me get this straight, it's not forcing you to actually be part of the union, it's just forcing you to pay them. Only a DUmmy could think like that.
It would be like if tomorrow Comcast had the power to collect $100 a month from every person, but you don't have put the cable box in your home. They aren't forcing you to watch tee vee. :mental:
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The DemonRats fear right to work laws, because they know that unions will lose money, and therefore the DemonRats will lose money for campaigns.
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For being so smart they sure get a lot wrong.
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For being so smart they sure get a lot wrong.
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO_WM1uZyZo[/youtube]
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Wow, six hours since that last comment. :???:
Boopers must have unloaded his entire bladder on that campfire.
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[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO_WM1uZyZo[/youtube]
Reagan could use humor and ridicule so well. No wonder the democrat party hated him so much.
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Amazing.
A thread all about organized crime, er, labor, with nary a squeak from the Omaha Weeper.
Steve Dawes must be spending all his time supporting socialism and planning his big campaign.
Maybe he's realized the DUmp stands in his path to the White House.
If the people of Bellevue learn what he really is, he doesn't stand a chance.
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Skull you made great points I just want to add to them from the quote below.
Without the threat of employees organizing a union, what's going to keep the bosses from cutting pay and making working conditions less pleasant? Hmmm? Federal and state laws, that's what.
What keeps bosses from cutting pay and make working conditions less pleasant in a Free Market is in fact the Free Market. See this will only happen for so long before your workers leave to go to the shop down the street which makes the same product but treats their employees better. And then eventually the first shop will close because they treat their employees shitty so they get shitty employees which will in-turn create shitty products which will inevitably lead to a closed shop.
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I hope "Right to work" laws sweep the nation like concealed carry laws did. Only problem is that a large segment of union workers are employed by some Government entity. Union membership by private sector employers is shrinking.
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So let me get this straight, it's not forcing you to actually be part of the union, it's just forcing you to pay them. Only a DUmmy could think like that...
They have a couple of union threads right now.
It gets worse.
Their argument is: you aren't forced to join a union but by law, whatever the union negotiates benefits you as well as the owners cannot pay you less. Since you "benefit" from the negotiations you should pay the dues.
So, the union keeps you from setting your own terms of employment, forces you to pay dues, may bankrupt your employer as they have done repeatedly in recent years and they will shoot you in the face if you cross their lines...
...but you're free not to join.
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Amazing.
A thread all about organized crime, er, labor, with nary a squeak from the Omaha Weeper.
Steve Dawes must be spending all his time supporting socialism and planning his big campaign.
You're right; I went over to see this campfire in person, and my fellow Nebraskan's not there.
In fact, Chief Bawling Hatchet's been rather quiet lately; one suspects his campaign handlers finally got it through his big thick head that hanging around Skins's island and running for political office in a red city isn't such a good idea.
He's still got about five weeks--until 5:00 p.m. central time, March 1--to file, and I'm still watching the newspapers with avid interest.