The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Terrorism In the US and Around the World => Topic started by: thundley4 on January 19, 2012, 03:55:37 PM
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Thought about putting this under mind numbing stupidity.
TEHRAN (FNA)- A senior Iranian military commander underlined that the Iranian Navy's subsurface vessels enjoy a high capability to confront enemies' threats, and stated that Iran's submarines are able to ambush and hit enemy vessels specially US Aircraft carriers from the seabed throughout the Persian Gulf.
Speaking to FNA on Wednesday, Lieutenant Commander of the Iranian Army's Self-Sufficiency Jihad Rear Admiral Farhad Amiri said that Iran has the best electronic diesel submarines of the world, adding that enemies, the US in particular, are most focused on Iran's astonishing subsurface capabilities.
Amiri underlined that significance of submarines are not just indebted to their arms and equipment, "rather the tactical issues are very important", given the geographical specifications of the waters surrounding the county.
"For example," he stated, "if an ordinary submarines can sit in the Persian Gulf's bed it would be the worst threat to the enemy."
"That is one of the US concerns since Iranian submarines are noiseless and can easily evade detection as they are equipped with the sonar-evading technology" and can fire missiles and torpedoes simultaneously, he added. http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9010171671
Of course the US postponing naval exercises with Israel plays into the hands of the propagandists in Iran.
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I'm thinking that Dinnerjacket would poop his pants if he knew everything our Navy can do to protect a Carrier.
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As a kid we used to take a "T-Model" coil and an old hand cranked telephone and call up the fish. Wonder if a similar thing on a larger scale would work on Sunken camel jockey's? I'd love to see them flopping around on the surface like those fish did.... :lmao:
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DinnerJacket conjures up the image of a common house fly.
Buzzing around your head constantly and irritating all the people at the dinner table, but perfectly harmless until the little sumbitch takes a crash-dive into your beer.
However - If one is forced to put up with even this mild irritation for long , there comes a point where the can of RAID must be deployed.
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Since when is a diesel submarine silent?
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Since when is a diesel submarine silent?
Actually, on batteries, a smoke boat is damned quiet. Problem is, batteries need recharging, and to do that, you need to come to the surface or PD and snorkel. THEN you make a shitload of noise.
Yeah, having been on a 688 and a 637, and having a pretty good idea of the capabilities of 688-I boats and Virginia class boats versus an Iranian-run Kilo, I'll put my money on one SSN versus pretty much the entire Iranian navy.
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Since when is a diesel submarine silent?
Like Sparky said, a diesel boat with high-cap batteries is actually quite a threat, they are potentially quieter than a nuke boat if running on batts or lying quiet. There has been some work done on super-silent fuel-cell boats with big battery arrays too, but that's not what these dopes have.
Thing is, the sea bottom in the Red Sea and Persian Gulf is not a highly complex structure where a quiet sub on the bottom can hide from active sonar. As much time as the surface Navy has been in the Gulf in the past 20 years, I'd be pretty amazed if they did not have a really good idea of the location of everything producing a submarine-sized echo down to 150% of the max depth anything the threat owns can reach, and a new item that size would stand out like a nude in a convent.
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It would be interesting to know just what threat these subs might pose meanwhile I will keep in mind that a North Korean submarine infiltrated a joint US ROK exercise in shallow water sinking a ROK ship then got clean away without being detected, or so we are told.
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It would be interesting to know just what threat these subs might pose meanwhile I will keep in mind that a North Korean submarine infiltrated a joint US ROK exercise in shallow water sinking a ROK ship then got clean away without being detected, or so we are told.
Pig boat comes to mind, I took a tour of one of the last built after the Nautilus was built and compaired to the SSN boats was interesting to say the least.
Difference was room, say you and 40 of your in laws had to spend every day for 3 months locked inside a Motel 6 with all windows boarded up no phones, one TV that only had a DVD player and a library of 20 movies, with the fire alarm going off and on 3 times a day but you could not get out of the room. Kitchenette the size of a small travel trailer and a 6 small man table to eat on at one time, and next to the table on the wall the tube of perhaps water with a bubble of air to tell you is you were going up or down. A cup of coffee will tell you the same just watch if the liquid moves up or down.
We used to have Family Cruises on the SSN's as the Pig Boats could not hold anymore then the crew and a small rat that would become the crews pet. Problem for anyone that had a beer gut as the inside halls were tummy to tummy walking past each other.
I do not know how anything was ever stored on the Diesal boats, on the SSN's I was curious about a small door overhead of the galley, opened it and there was a roil of toilet paper and some kind of pipe with a valve to it going off to where ever. Not one inch of space was wasted.
The old timers that earned their Dolphins on the Diesels back in the late 1950's and early 1960 tell of stretching a cord from one bulkhead to the next as tight as they could and as they descended the cord would shrink inward as the boat descended deeper, pressure on the hull, Subs seldom explode they implode.
As a kid waiting for my Dads ASR to come into port occasionally a Diesel would tie up to the peer and liberty was called. WOW, the crew were a scurvy lot, smelled to high heaven of Diesel fuel, only sailors I had seen wearing beards and some put in their Liberty pierced gold earring. Most went to take a 30 minute hot shower, shave, and find cloths that they had in lockers in the barricks. Then on to the Salads, cold fresh Milk, what ever before they hit the bars.
For a little girl this was seeing daring pirates on the high see, WOW, not just me, the sailors watching from the skimmers watched and shook their heads. Crazy Bastards was heard more then once coming from the on lookers.
I went on to marry not one but two of these Sub Sailors, Crazy dudes, both Qualified on the diesel boats and went Nuke. One passed away, the other still living and still reliving the good old days. 4 kids from 2 men that were extraordinary in every way, this is no life for a Pussey or faint of heart, this life separates the grown men from the grown/ man boys.
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I, for one am really looking forward to seeing how this plays out. It has been said once (and I'm forgetting at the moment who to attribute it to) that the United States (and our military in particular) is like a vicious dog on a leash. You can anger the dog, but are relatively safe poking the dog with a stick from outside the range of that leash. But if you ever step inside that leash's radius for anything, the dog will tear you apart.
Ambushing/attacking a carrier is a "Step inside the radius of the leash" move. Iran's navy - subs included - as a whole could very well be so much wreckage littering the bottom of the Strait of Hormuz before Lord Obey Won could get a chance to rein them in and diplomatically grab the ankles for Iran.
:popcorn:
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its one thing if they step within the leashs reach, but i hope we dont let the dog prematurely break the leash.
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It would be interesting to know just what threat these subs might pose meanwhile I will keep in mind that a North Korean submarine infiltrated a joint US ROK exercise in shallow water sinking a ROK ship then got clean away without being detected, or so we are told.
By whom? The Norks? Sorry, but the water off those islands is less than 20 meters deep. Ain't no freakin boat gonna sneak in and out of water that shallow.
Anything inside the 100-fathom curve increases the pucker factor exponentially.
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its one thing if they step within the leashs reach, but i hope we dont let the dog prematurely break the leash.
Either way, I trust the CVBG's commander. He's well aware of the ROE in that area. If he's attacked, he's going to defend his battle group, and **** what this administration thinks.
If he doesn't, he has no business commanding a rowboat, let alone an entire battle group with upwards of 10-12 thousand sailors and Marines.
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Attacking a US aircraft carrier is how they plan to close off the straits. It will be hard for any ship to navigate past all of the Iranian Navy wreckage.
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By whom? The Norks? Sorry, but the water off those islands is less than 20 meters deep. Ain't no freakin boat gonna sneak in and out of water that shallow.
Anything inside the 100-fathom curve increases the pucker factor exponentially.
The conclusion of the official investigation was that a North Korean torpedo sunk the Cheonan, surely you do not dispute that? OK, perhaps the torpedo was not fired from a sub, but then where was it fired from?
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The conclusion of the official investigation was that a North Korean torpedo sunk the Cheonan, surely you do not dispute that? OK, perhaps the torpedo was not fired from a sub, but then where was it fired from?
Please, show me the "official" report. I'm dying to hear this. A submerged boat in less than 60 feet of water doing torpedo ops and gets away clean. Even a midget boat is going to be very hard pressed to get that close and that shallow. A Yono class boat (the one thought to have carried out the attack) has a submerged speed of 8 knots. Displaces 130 tons, meaning they had to be on the surface until almost the attack point, dive, escape, and then surface because their submergence time is measured in a matter of a few hours.
Yeah, color me a bit skeptical. And you ARE aware that torpedoes can be launched by surface ships and aircraft as well, and that mines also do very similar damage to torpedoes, yes?
And it was not universal finding by any stretch. So even if the "official" report is correct, what it basically says is that the Norks got very, very, very lucky and the South Koreans were tear-assing around in littoral waters where NO US warship would normally operate. Bottom line, if Iran thinks it can threaten a carrier battle group, by all means, let them come out and play.
(Psst--in case you weren't aware, I've got my fish, so I got a bit of experience in this sort of thing.)
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I am not arguing that the DPRK did or did not sink the Cheonan with a torpedo and I have already said that such torpedo may have been launched by means other than from a submarine. I will repeat my post so that there is no confusion regarding my position on this matter
It would be interesting to know just what threat these subs might pose meanwhile I will keep in mind that a North Korean submarine infiltrated a joint US ROK exercise in shallow water sinking a ROK ship then got clean away without being detected, or so we are told.
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The operative words being, "or so we are told". Nobody has proven it. There is evidence both for and against.
And my original statement stands--if the Iranian navy wants to play with the Fifth Fleet on the deep side of the 100 fathom curve, I say let 'em come out and play.
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They certainly havent proved it to me as having had just a tiny bit of experience in the DPRK the only thing I am sure of is that I am not sure of anything regarding present day doings on and around the Korean Peninsula.
If the DPRK did sink the ROK ship in the reported circumstances it does give cause to pause and consider just what threat the Iranian underwater forces may be to shipping in the Straits of Hormuz. It is no secret that the DPRK and Iran very probably trade arms and technology.
BTW, the title of this topic mentions ambush in the Persian Gulf, if I recall correctly much of the Gulf is really quite shallow.
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BTW, the title of this topic mentions ambush in the Persian Gulf, if I recall correctly much of the Gulf is really quite shallow.
Then you won't have an issue staying on topic now, will you? Yes, most of the Persian Gulf has a depth of 200 feet or less, and at its deepest is less than 300 feet. Not great for boats to operate in--and in fact leaves them pretty vunerable to being "zoofed" by the huge tankers/merchies. CO of the Newport News (who I knew as a JO on my first boat) got relieved a few years back when it happened to him. 300,000 ton Japanese tanker overtook the boat at such a high speed that NN never had a chance to get out of the way and got sucked up into the keel of the tanker.
Depth is a submariner's friend. Don't have it? Not good. One major reason why the Iranians only have a few Kilos.
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Then you won't have an issue staying on topic now, will you? Yes, most of the Persian Gulf has a depth of 200 feet or less, and at its deepest is less than 300 feet. Not great for boats to operate in--and in fact leaves them pretty vunerable to being "zoofed" by the huge tankers/merchies. CO of the Newport News (who I knew as a JO on my first boat) got relieved a few years back when it happened to him. 300,000 ton Japanese tanker overtook the boat at such a high speed that NN never had a chance to get out of the way and got sucked up into the keel of the tanker.
Depth is a submariner's friend. Don't have it? Not good. One major reason why the Iranians only have a few Kilos.
I was right on topic, I cautioned that when considering the threat to vessels in the Persian Gulf one should bear in mind the incident off the DPRK where a modern warship was apparently sunk by an undetected foe in shallow water.
I think it quite likely that Iran has whatever the DPRK has in the way of small submarines and like craft.
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Scooter, maybe you didn't understand me...200 feet is bad enough. 50-60 feet (where the ROK ship was sunk) is ****ing INSANE for a submarine to be, even at PD.
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Scooter, maybe you didn't understand me...200 feet is bad enough. 50-60 feet (where the ROK ship was sunk) is ****ing INSANE for a submarine to be, even at PD.
Sparky, you know this and the Navy knows this but what about the Enemy that wants to go after their 120 Virgins.??
We are for the first time dealing with nut cases that want to die for a future in heaven. Much different from any enemy before that wants to live to fight another day. We are against the enemy that wants to die in valor not actually live tomorrow.
Big difference in war fare of any kind when the enemy welcomes death against those that fight for life. Different world today, the enemy subs have no problem to their crew with finding another sub and and smashing into it---Allah will give the enemy crew a forever of sex in the heavens.
Damn the Faith that promisses SEX and lots of it to the dead, the Men. Crazy people.
These Subs of the nation of Islam are akin to the land dwelling people that are suicide bombers. We want to live but they welcome death, this will become an interesting problem for those who wish to live. Who will back off first in the game of chicken under water????
We have not seen anything yet when it come to the insane things the Enemy will do, Other nations just want to fight and go home to family and live another few years. These so called humans just want to die as soon as possible to get some kind of perverted sex with virgin men and woman for ever in another life off earth.
Open your eyes, they find nothing wrong will murdering their girl children on earth if they disobey them, hate their own family's, all to find favor in the here after. So does not this make them a fearsome warrior under the sea???
Barbarians like the earth has not seen for thousands of years, they are attacking with their methods country's that are 3000 years advanced in war and social advances. Interesting how the people of the dark ages and darn near cave dwellers are over riding the people of science and knowledge.
Only hope is if the Navy finds sub and sank same of these strange people, no worry the crew will cheer as the boat goes down, now they get an etenity of SEX. This faith is that of the Sex freek.
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Scooter, maybe you didn't understand me...200 feet is bad enough. 50-60 feet (where the ROK ship was sunk) is ****ing INSANE for a submarine to be, even at PD.
The point has nothing to do with sanity, the point is that the DPRK were able to kipper that ship and get clean away, the DPRK trades arms with Iran. If the DPRK can sink modern war ships in such difficult locations the Iranians might well be a serious threat.
P.S. No name calling please, thats not nice.
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Oh give it up, Akubra. You are preaching to the Choirmaster in your locking horns with Sparky on anything nautical,especially submarines. He isn't even mildly annoyed yet.
It is amusing though. :popcorn:
The scenario surrounding the loss of the ROK boat leans toward it falling victim to a mine. Sure, it's possible that it may have been sniped with something like the Russian Vyuga RPK-2 antisubmarine torpedo that sports a range of 40 km but very unlikely. We will never know for sure but a mine is the most plausible culprit.
As far as the Iranians holding sway in the Persian Gulf goes I think they have a very high opinion of themselves but their ass can't cover the checks their mouth is passing.
Like Gilligan walking into a crowded biker bar with a chip on his shoulder he might land one good sucker punch to get the party started but his future in the next moments is questionable to say the least.
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We have been shown images of what is claimed to be the remains of the torpedo that sunk the ROK ship. If it was a mine we would then have to accept that maybe the DPRK were not responsible. We would have to wonder at the information we are fed and why attempts are being made to frame the DPRK with false evidence.
No one claims the Iranians could 'hold sway' in the Persian Gulf, except themselves, the question is do they pose any threat?
If we want to hold fast to the theory that the DPRK sunk the ROK ship and we know that Iran and North Korea trade in arms we must then accept that Iran likely has some effective capacity in this regard.
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Threat ?
They might be able to launch at most a couple of weapons at the USN (or - given it's Iran - more likely some civilian shipping). They then have to pray to their moongod that not only are the countermeasures that the USN have be ineffective but that they can survive the results of a very pissed off, very well equipped and very well trained navy with lots of recent operational experience.
That's just in the immediate few hours following their actions. What would come on land and at sea after would not be good for Iran.
So is there a "threat" - yes. It's very small and very empty.
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The scenario surrounding the loss of the ROK boat leans toward it falling victim to a mine. Sure, it's possible that it may have been sniped with something like the Russian Vyuga RPK-2 antisubmarine torpedo that sports a range of 40 km but very unlikely. We will never know for sure but a mine is the most plausible culprit.
Influence-homing torpedos (Mainly acoustic) can have a very long range and you don't have to be a U-Boat ace to hit a ship with them, either, since they are self-guiding they can be fired from miles away. With torpedo powerplants, other things being equal, it's all speed vs. range, and range is a lot more important than speed for a homing torp.
It is of course possible to have what effectively a homing torpedo released from a mine-like carrier moored on the sea floor, which releases the torp when an acoustic or magnetic influence is detected, there was even a classic Golden-Age SF short story written about such a proto-cybernetic system long before the technology to actually make one existed. No idea whether the Norks might have, or have been testing, anything of the sort, of course.
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Yeah, color me a bit skeptical. And you ARE aware that torpedoes can be launched by surface ships and aircraft as well, and that mines also do very similar damage to torpedoes, yes?
As I recall they recovered the ass end of a NK torpedo at the scene.
I have no doubt out SNN's and Air will identify and eliminate the large Iranian boats long before they even get withing even missile firing range of one of our Navy ships, but they could easily start off by torpedoing merchant tanker hulls.
It's the little subs that I worry about. The Russians had some with ******* tracks on them that literally crawled across the bottom into Swedish harbors. They found the treadmarks on the sea floor. Remember that? They were never found and swam back to their motherboat without detection.
Those little mini subs or small caostal defense boats they make, equipped with efficient batteries and good scrubbers, could siddle up against a wreck on the bottom like the chinese did with that one that came up in the middle of the Carrier Group. There are wrecks all over waters like the PG. many are small, but easily capable of serving as camoflage for a small boat or minisub crewed by suicidal Revolutionary Guard.