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Current Events => General Discussion => Topic started by: DefiantSix on January 01, 2012, 09:08:31 PM

Title: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: DefiantSix on January 01, 2012, 09:08:31 PM
Quote
(http://www.wbur.org/files/2010/06/0623_trooper-hit-resize1-630x420.jpg)
Massachusetts Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/01/01/massachusetts-trooper-accidentally-shoots-woman-while-hunting/)
Published January 01, 2012 | Associated Press

NORTON, Mass. –  An off-duty state trooper who was hunting in southeast Massachusetts shot and wounded a...

Why in hell does this bastard still have a job, with no better "shoot/no shoot" situational discernment than he has thus demonstrated???
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: SSG Snuggle Bunny on January 03, 2012, 09:16:25 AM
Why in hell does this bastard still have a job, with no better "shoot/no shoot" situational discernment than he has thus demonstrated???

I was all prepared to question whether or not the officer could have reasonably seen the victim. If not, then I was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt.

That was then.

This is now:

Quote
66-year-old woman who was out walking her two dogs when he mistook her pets for a deer.

Bad target ID and close to inhabited, trafficked areas.
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: JohnnyReb on January 03, 2012, 10:21:25 AM

That was then.

This is now:

66-year-old woman who was out walking her two dogs when he mistook her pets for a deer.

Bad target ID and close to inhabited, trafficked areas.

He could be the first member of the Obama healthcare rationing board.






That's is sad in so many ways. :bawl:
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: Gina on January 03, 2012, 10:24:44 AM
Quote
66-year-old woman who was out walking her two dogs when he mistook her pets for a deer.

Did they have a rack?   :lmao:  Sorry but that is just funny that he sucks that bad as a hunter
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: NHSparky on January 03, 2012, 10:47:50 AM
And it wasn't a dog with a bobbed tail, fer Chrissakes--these were GOLDEN RETRIEVERS.

Granted, they have some weird-assed deer back east, but none that have yellow fur and long tails who go, "WOOF!"

Sit Officer Magoo behind a desk and don't give the guy anything any more dangerous than a burnt-out match.
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: formerlurker on January 03, 2012, 11:39:42 AM
I live in a rural area of MA.  When hunting season is on, there are wooded areas that you take precaution in when walking (wearing an orange reflective vest of course being a necessary precaution).   It's hunting season, and she was walking the dirt road that she should have known better to have walked without that gear.   

It happens.  Not just here, but pretty much everywhere.

Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: formerlurker on January 03, 2012, 11:41:37 AM
And it wasn't a dog with a bobbed tail, fer Chrissakes--these were GOLDEN RETRIEVERS.

Granted, they have some weird-assed deer back east, but none that have yellow fur and long tails who go, "WOOF!"

Sit Officer Magoo behind a desk and don't give the guy anything any more dangerous than a burnt-out match.

You see tan from a distance and you could certainly think it is a deer.   Especially when there are two of them, and you see no orange in the mix.   

It happens.
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: Gina on January 03, 2012, 11:47:42 AM
You see tan from a distance and you could certainly think it is a deer.   Especially when there are two of them, and you see no orange in the mix.   

It happens.

Eh I don't know.  I always stare through the scope for a long time.  First looking at the ass (for the white) and then the body and then the rack.  I take a while to calm down before I can hold my gun steady enough to aim correctly.  I think you should be 100% sure it's a deer before you shoot all willy nilly into the woods at something you think is a deer.
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: Eupher on January 03, 2012, 12:01:17 PM
I'd agree with FL that shit happens.

If the woman walking her dogs isn't a hunter and doesn't really know and appreciate hunting season for what it is (lots of ****tards out there, no matter what anybody says), she shouldn't be expected to be wearing orange. She's walking her dogs, for God's sake, not walking around like an oversized pumpkin.

This story is only a story because the hunter is a state trooper. You'd think he would know better, and he should know better, but this is nothing more than "shit happens."

The woman is lucky she isn't dead. And so is the trooper. Had he killed her, I'm betting there would've been charges and he'd be looking for another line of work. As it is, this guy won't be seeing any sort of promotion for awhile.
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: NHSparky on January 03, 2012, 01:22:04 PM
You see tan from a distance and you could certainly think it is a deer.   Especially when there are two of them, and you see no orange in the mix.   

It happens.

Bullshit.  I've hunted for over 30 years and I NEVER, EVER, EVER take a shot unless I'm ABSOLUTELY ****ING SURE of my target. 

Color is not enough.  Hell, the difference in color between that dog and a deer is VERY substantial, not to mention the size.  Besides, deer slugs aren't meant to be used over more than a 100-yard distance, not that you'd ever be able to see that far in dense woods and brush.  Most deer around woods like this are taken at ranges of 30-50 yards.  Please don't tell me that you can't tell color difference at that range.  Please don't tell me a dog looks the same as a deer at that distance.

Bottom line, this guy screwed the pooch--figuratively and literally.
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: Gina on January 03, 2012, 01:23:51 PM
Bullshit.  I've hunted for over 30 years and I NEVER, EVER, EVER take a shot unless I'm ABSOLUTELY ****ING SURE of my target. 

Color is not enough.  Hell, the difference in color between that dog and a deer is VERY substantial, not to mention the size.  Besides, deer slugs aren't meant to be used over more than a 100-yard distance, not that you'd ever be able to see that far in dense woods and brush.  Most deer around woods like this are taken at ranges of 30-50 yards.  Please don't tell me that you can't tell color difference at that range.  Please don't tell me a dog looks the same as a deer at that distance.

Bottom line, this guy screwed the pooch--figuratively and literally.

You go Sparky!  I am so on your side.  You should never shoot until you are sure that deer is going down with a clear shot.  If you aren't sure, don't shoot. 
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: thundley4 on January 03, 2012, 01:27:33 PM
You go Sparky!  I am so on your side.  You should never shoot until you are sure that deer is going down with a clear shot.  If you aren't sure, don't shoot. 


Better to let that tasty hunk of venison get away than to risk harm or death to an innocent creature.
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: Gina on January 03, 2012, 01:32:29 PM

Better to let that tasty hunk of venison get away than to risk harm or death to an innocent creature.

and then there is jail
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: Wineslob on January 03, 2012, 02:08:12 PM
Bullshit.  I've hunted for over 30 years and I NEVER, EVER, EVER take a shot unless I'm ABSOLUTELY ****ING SURE of my target. 

Color is not enough.  Hell, the difference in color between that dog and a deer is VERY substantial, not to mention the size.  Besides, deer slugs aren't meant to be used over more than a 100-yard distance, not that you'd ever be able to see that far in dense woods and brush.  Most deer around woods like this are taken at ranges of 30-50 yards.  Please don't tell me that you can't tell color difference at that range.  Please don't tell me a dog looks the same as a deer at that distance.

Bottom line, this guy screwed the pooch--figuratively and literally.

+1

Until I see horns........no way. (no, we don't hunt does)
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: NHSparky on January 03, 2012, 02:15:26 PM
+1

Until I see horns........no way. (no, we don't hunt does)

Even then...I've heard of cases where guys got shot carrying their kill out and the other hunter didn't even notice the guy in the orange vest carrying the deer out.
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: Gina on January 03, 2012, 02:16:49 PM
Even then...I've heard of cases where guys got shot carrying their kill out and the other hunter didn't even notice the guy in the orange vest carrying the deer out.

My dad always put an additional vest on the deer for when he was carrying it out. 
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: Rebel on January 03, 2012, 02:22:10 PM
You see tan from a distance and you could certainly think it is a deer.   Especially when there are two of them, and you see no orange in the mix.   

It happens.

To idiots. If you're hunting any big game, you better be damned certain what you're firing at. Down here you can lose your firearm, your truck, and your freedom for killing a button buck, thinking it's a Doe, when you already have your limit of antlered deer.

This idiot should lose his hunting license permanently. He's obviously lacks the judgement to be hunting with a high-powered rifle. Give him a pellet gun and show him where the squirrel's nests are.
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: BlueStateSaint on January 03, 2012, 02:26:49 PM
I've got to echo Gina's sentiment (along with a lot of others in this thread)--make abso-effin'-lutely sure of the target before firing.
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: Gina on January 03, 2012, 02:30:51 PM
I've got to echo Gina's sentiment (along with a lot of others in this thread)--make abso-effin'-lutely sure of the target before firing.

Echo me anytime! :fuelfire:  "if it's brown it's down" is one of the stupidest comments evah  :loser:
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: Rebel on January 03, 2012, 02:31:14 PM
My dad always put an additional vest on the deer for when he was carrying it out.  

I knew a guy in Mississippi at our camp in Carroll County that was shot at because he had antlers hanging from his waste. ...WHILE he was wearing a vest. I seriously have no tolerance for idiots when it comes to this.

EDIT: the idiot is the guy that shot at him, not the guy carrying the antlers. We use them to call deer during rut. He could have probably used better judgement on where he carried them, like a backpack, but if the idiot that fired didn't see all that orange, he needs to find another hobby.
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: Gina on January 03, 2012, 02:36:49 PM
I knew a guy in Mississippi at our camp in Carroll County that was shot at because he had antlers hanging from his waste. ...WHILE he was wearing a vest. I seriously have no tolerance for idiots when it comes to this.

EDIT: the idiot is the guy that shot at him, not the guy carrying the antlers. We use them to call deer during rut. He could have probably used better judgement on where he carried them, like a backpack, but if the idiot that fired didn't see all that orange, he needs to find another hobby.

Doesn't anyone get buck fever like I do?  It takes me a few minutes to calm down enough to steady myself.  Damn deer takes a nap while I ready myself. :lmao:
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: cmypay on January 03, 2012, 03:13:22 PM
I'd agree with FL that shit happens.

If the woman walking her dogs isn't a hunter and doesn't really know and appreciate hunting season for what it is (lots of ****tards out there, no matter what anybody says), she shouldn't be expected to be wearing orange. She's walking her dogs, for God's sake, not walking around like an oversized pumpkin.

This story is only a story because the hunter is a state trooper. You'd think he would know better, and he should know better, but this is nothing more than "shit happens."

The woman is lucky she isn't dead. And so is the trooper. Had he killed her, I'm betting there would've been charges and he'd be looking for another line of work. As it is, this guy won't be seeing any sort of promotion for awhile.

Every single year, at least for the last three, my house gets hit by mis-directed bullets during hunting season. We are surrounded by woods and farmland. Last year, I bought everyone blaze orange hats to wear during hunting season. Some crazy people out there.

On the other hand, a state trooper should know better than to shoot when he can't positively identify what he's shooting at.
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: formerlurker on January 03, 2012, 04:13:04 PM
Forget the source for a minute as the link just brings you to a collection of hunting accident reports:

http://www.all-creatures.org/cash/accident-center.html

Where the woman was shot:

(http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/20120101/e62a97_010112huntkm06.jpg)

Quote
“The season is too long, the hours pre- and post-true daylight too dark and the areas allowed too close to people just trying to live — like walking their dogs. It is time Massachusetts’ legislators forget about the lobbying power of hunters ... and pass laws to guarantee the safety of the rest of us.”

Cheryl Blair, 66, was accidentally shot by off-duty trooper John Bergeron Saturday when he mistook her dogs for a deer. She was the 11th person injured by a hunter in Massachusetts in 2011, police said. State laws prohibit hunting within 500 feet of an occupied dwelling and within 150 feet of a roadway — requirements Bergeron is believed to have met.

State law does not require hunters to fully identify their intended target before firing a shot but, environmental police spokesman Reginald Zimmerman said, a state-mandated hunting safety class strongly recommends all hunters fully identify their targets.

State police yesterday defended Bergeron, saying he’s a licensed and permitted hunter.

“The trooper is an experienced hunter who lives in the area. He did not see the woman and mistook the tails of the two dogs (retrievers) the victim was walking as the tail of a deer he had seen earlier in the afternoon,” said state police spokesman -David Procopio.

http://bostonherald.com/news/politics/view.bg?articleid=1392583


She was 500 feet from a dwelling, and 150 feet from the road in an area that is known for hunting (which if she lives there, she should certainly know this).   

I previously lived near a large farm that was surrounded by woods -- prime hunting location.  Even though the very wealthy farmer ran security patrols through his expansive property, and had no trespassing/no hunting signs everywhere, the hunters were pretty common.  I never walked my dog in hunting season without a vest on.   Never.
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: DefiantSix on January 03, 2012, 04:33:23 PM
Forget the source for a minute as the link just brings you to a collection of hunting accident reports:

http://www.all-creatures.org/cash/accident-center.html

Where the woman was shot:

(http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/20120101/e62a97_010112huntkm06.jpg)

http://bostonherald.com/news/politics/view.bg?articleid=1392583


She was 500 feet from a dwelling, and 150 feet from the road in an area that is known for hunting (which if she lives there, she should certainly know this).   

I previously lived near a large farm that was surrounded by woods -- prime hunting location.  Even though the very wealthy farmer ran security patrols through his expansive property, and had no trespassing/no hunting signs everywhere, the hunters were pretty common.  I never walked my dog in hunting season without a vest on.   Never.

While fine arguments on behalf of the idiot behind the trigger, all of them combined do not negate the man's FIRST RESPONSIBILITY as a hunter: to know what the hell his boomstick was pointed at BEFORE letting his booger hook tug on the bang switch.  I can't begin to count the number of times that was drilled into my head at the hunter safety course I was required to take before I could get my hunting license. 

If you don't know, don't shoot; it's that simple. 

Let's put it another way: it's 01:30 in the morning, and you hear burglar-type noises coming from the front of your house, and call 9-1-1.  Now, knowing that this idiot believes a couple of golden retrievers in a wooded area, under reduced visibility, with whatever that is between them is a definite "GO for shoot" situation, are you sure you want him to be the one answering that 9-1-1 call, busting into your darkened house with his weapon drawn and "looks like a burglar to me" running through his wee mind? :popcorn:
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: formerlurker on January 03, 2012, 06:28:29 PM
While fine arguments on behalf of the idiot behind the trigger, all of them combined do not negate the man's FIRST RESPONSIBILITY as a hunter: to know what the hell his boomstick was pointed at BEFORE letting his booger hook tug on the bang switch.  I can't begin to count the number of times that was drilled into my head at the hunter safety course I was required to take before I could get my hunting license. 

If you don't know, don't shoot; it's that simple. 

Let's put it another way: it's 01:30 in the morning, and you hear burglar-type noises coming from the front of your house, and call 9-1-1.  Now, knowing that this idiot believes a couple of golden retrievers in a wooded area, under reduced visibility, with whatever that is between them is a definite "GO for shoot" situation, are you sure you want him to be the one answering that 9-1-1 call, busting into your darkened house with his weapon drawn and "looks like a burglar to me" running through his wee mind? :popcorn:

How the hell is that the same as hunting in the woods? 
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: Rebel on January 03, 2012, 06:30:14 PM
While fine arguments on behalf of the idiot behind the trigger, all of them combined do not negate the man's FIRST RESPONSIBILITY as a hunter: to know what the hell his boomstick was pointed at BEFORE letting his booger hook tug on the bang switch.  I can't begin to count the number of times that was drilled into my head at the hunter safety course I was required to take before I could get my hunting license.  

If you don't know, don't shoot; it's that simple.  

Let's put it another way: it's 01:30 in the morning, and you hear burglar-type noises coming from the front of your house, and call 9-1-1.  Now, knowing that this idiot believes a couple of golden retrievers in a wooded area, under reduced visibility, with whatever that is between them is a definite "GO for shoot" situation, are you sure you want him to be the one answering that 9-1-1 call, busting into your darkened house with his weapon drawn and "looks like a burglar to me" running through his wee mind? :popcorn:

This. You see a dog, and like a dumbass, think it's a deer, but wind up shooting a woman, who's walking the dog, you need to find another f'n hobby.

This sumbitch sounds like the type of asshole that would fire into a brush because it was stirring in the wind. Give his ass a fishing pole and put him on the shore. I don't know if I'd trust him with a boat.
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: Rebel on January 03, 2012, 06:32:58 PM
How the hell is that the same as hunting in the woods? 

"If you don't know, don't shoot; it's that simple. "


A dog doesn't look like a deer. If he couldn't discern between the two, he shouldn't have fired.

Sorry FL, it's morons like this guy that give outdoorsmen a bad name, that we'd shoot anything because we have some blood lust.
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: Rebel on January 03, 2012, 06:34:48 PM
When I used to hunt, do you know how many damn deer I let go because I was either, A) not confident that I could hit the target without it getting away, B) not confident that it was a legal kill, or C) due to its distance, didn't know what was on the other side?

This guy displayed PISS POOR judgement and shouldn't be excused.
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: formerlurker on January 03, 2012, 06:38:32 PM
"If you don't know, don't shoot; it's that simple. "


A dog doesn't look like a deer. If he couldn't discern between the two, he shouldn't have fired.

Sorry FL, it's morons like this guy that give outdoorsmen a bad name, that we'd shoot anything because we have some blood lust.

I don't hunt, and never had.  I do live in an area that has and sees a great deal of hunters.   I am a born and raised city girl who learned the ropes pretty damn quick when I moved to rural America.   This woman has some negligence here also.   It was late, and she had no reflective gear on.   She should have known better.

Shit happens.  Poor hunter or not, he did nothing illegal.   

Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: DefiantSix on January 03, 2012, 06:56:49 PM
How the hell is that the same as hunting in the woods? 

It's the same thing, because this twit, who's demonstrated that he doesn't have the situational forethought God gave a gnat, also carries a gun on his day job.  If he's a walking cluster**** with a gun in the woods, when the visibility isn't so hot, what makes you think he's ANY DIFFERENT responding to a burglary call at 01:30 in the damned morning??
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: formerlurker on January 03, 2012, 07:00:32 PM
It's the same thing, because this twit, who's demonstrated that he doesn't have the situational forethought God gave a gnat, also carries a gun on his day job.  If he's a walking cluster**** with a gun in the woods, when the visibility isn't so hot, what makes you think he's ANY DIFFERENT responding to a burglary call at 01:30 in the damned morning??

Well for one he's a state trooper, and as such would not answer a burglary call at 1:30 in the morning.    Secondly, out in the woods where there is you, other hunters in reflective gear and animals you think a little differently I would imagine.   

Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: thundley4 on January 03, 2012, 07:19:57 PM
Well for one he's a state trooper, and as such would not answer a burglary call at 1:30 in the morning.    Secondly, out in the woods where there is you, other hunters in reflective gear and animals you think a little differently I would imagine.   




Not necessarily true.  Some small towns in Illinois rely on both the ISP and county sheriff's department to answer emergency calls. Whoever is most available will take the call.
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: Rebel on January 03, 2012, 07:22:24 PM
I don't hunt, and never had.  I do live in an area that has and sees a great deal of hunters.   I am a born and raised city girl who learned the ropes pretty damn quick when I moved to rural America.   This woman has some negligence here also.   It was late, and she had no reflective gear on.   She should have known better.

Shit happens.  Poor hunter or not, he did nothing illegal.   



Illegal? No. Dumb as hell? Yes, and subject to a civil lawsuit. FL, if it was late, the rules still apply. You don't fire when you're not sure and, if it was a damn dog, he was either A) unsure but fired anyway, or B) needs glasses and shouldn't be hunting. There is no excuse for this. None. Idiots like this will get hunting banned.
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: Rebel on January 03, 2012, 07:25:30 PM
Well for one he's a state trooper, and as such would not answer a burglary call at 1:30 in the morning.    Secondly, out in the woods where there is you, other hunters in reflective gear and animals you think a little differently I would imagine.    



FL, you do not fire a rifle into an area when you're unsure about what's there. ...he was unsure. If he was sure about it, he knowingly killed a woman. It can't be both. Shit happens, true. People fire a high powered rifle and it hits a metal object, ricochets off and hits someone else. That is a "shit happens" moment. This, however, is a piss poor judgement moment.
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: formerlurker on January 03, 2012, 07:25:49 PM

Not necessarily true.  Some small towns in Illinois rely on both the ISP and county sheriff's department to answer emergency calls. Whoever is most available will take the call.

State police will respond for some towns who don't have funds for full time police, but those towns usually have agreements with adjoining towns for mutual assistance.   The state police is the last to show, and honestly you don't want to be at the mercy of them being the ones to respond as it would take a LONG time for them to do so.  

They are highway patrol (state roads and highway) and primarily traffic cops.  There are many specialized units that work with DA and do detective work, inspect rigs, tractor trailers etc.  but answering burglary calls in the middle of the night would be more rare than anything.
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: DefiantSix on January 03, 2012, 07:27:10 PM
Well for one he's a state trooper, and as such would not answer a burglary call at 1:30 in the morning.    Secondly, out in the woods where there is you, other hunters in reflective gear and animals you think a little differently I would imagine.   



Actually, no you don't. 

I guarantee you, that the checklist I go through in my head when I'm preparing to drop a 5-point buck is the same checklist I'll go through when I have my sidearm out of the holster (in training or real life).


If I can't check off every one of those questions, then I have a NO SHOOT situation, and I am at the very least negligent, and can very well be held legally responsible if I discharge that weapon.

All of my firearms, concealed carry, and hunter safety courses have been taught by police officers from my community.  I have had any number of instructors, and the instruction on shoot/no shoot has been consistent throughout.  I have to believe that this idiot hiding behind a MA Trooper's badge has gone through the same shoot/no shoot drills that I have, and in the course of training for his chosen occupation, even more so.  It's also not something that gets "turned off" whenever you go "off duty".

That he could - for whatever reason you might offer - see the setup that had to have presented in front of him, and believe that he had a valid "Shoot" situation at hand, shows extremely poor judgement on his part, such that it is incredible to believe that he checks his poor judgement in the locker whenever he goes on duty.   Like Rebel said: give this SoB a fishing pole and chain him to a riverbank somewhere, because the next poor sod this guy shoots - and you can take it to the bank that there'll be another - may not be so lucky as the woman was.  In addition to having bad judgement, in her case his aim sucked donkey balls as well.
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: formerlurker on January 03, 2012, 07:29:08 PM
FL, you do not fire a rifle into an area when you're unsure about what's there. ...he was unsure. If he was sure about it, he knowingly killed a woman. It can't be both. Shit happens, true. People fire a high powered rifle and it hits a metal object, ricochets off and hits someone else. That is a "shit happens" moment. This, however, is a piss poor judgement moment.

You hunt, I don't so I will defer to you opinion.  That said, I don't think this is that rare as I seem to read about this stuff every year.   Horrifying yes, but if I was out walking my dog at my old house and I got shot the first thing pretty much every  town regular would has asked me was were you wearing a vest, and if I wasn't they would immediately roll  their eyes at me.  

I guess they just expect idiot hunters to do stuff like this more commonly than the rest of the country then.   :-)
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: FreeBorn on January 03, 2012, 07:35:15 PM
Apparently the MSP academy teaches "reconnaissance by fire".  :mental:

Can't help it, I gotta wonder once Gomer realized what he had done did the thought cross his mind to plant a gun on the Lady?

This is only half the story, no matter how badly the MSP want this to just go away it is most definitely headed to civil court. At least.
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: Gina on January 03, 2012, 07:40:07 PM
Actually, no you don't.  

I guarantee you, that the checklist I go through in my head when I'm preparing to drop a 5-point buck is the same checklist I'll go through when I have my sidearm out of the holster (in training or real life).

  • Is deadly force justified for use on this target
  • Am I sure of who/what the target is
  • Is the downrange behind the target clear
  • Are there "no shoot" variables that could wander in between me and the target
  • Do I have a clean line of sight to my target

If I can't check off every one of those questions, then I have a NO SHOOT situation, and I am at the very least negligent, and can very well be held legally responsible if I discharge that weapon.

[\quote]

I like to see the eyes too
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: formerlurker on January 03, 2012, 07:44:49 PM
Quote
Blair’s husband, James Blair, a state-certified firearms safety instructor, originally thought Bergeron was hunting on the couple’s four-acre property; however, today, Norton police Lt. Todd Jackson said investigators have determined the accident occurred on other land “regularly used for hunting and is approximately 800 feet from any buildings.”

When the dispatcher asked Bergeron if Blair had been shot by a hunter, he immediately answered, “Yes, it was me. I just had a deer come by. I thought it came by again.”

Bergeron, who asked Blair what she was doing walking in the woods, wasn’t immediately sure she’d been hit, as he told the dispatcher, “I don’t see any blood.”

“Oh my god, ma’am, don’t move,” he beseeched Blair. “I don’t want you to get hurt.”

Panicked and out of breath, Bergeron, who’d mistaken dog breeder Blair’s two golden retrievers for a deer, broke down crying as Blair told him, “I can’t move.”

“Never in my life,” Bergeron said. “I can’t (expletive) believe this.”

The dispatcher instructed Bergeron to yell to EMTs who had pulled up on Oak Street a quarter mile away, but he told her, “I hate to leave (Blair) alone.”

He then called out to the emergency personnel and blew on a whistle, as the nearly 13-minute, harrowing tape followed his footsteps crunching on leaves and twigs until the phone went dead.

http://bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/20220103911_tape_im_so_sorry_trooper_tells_grandma_after_shooting/srvc=home&position=6

Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: DefiantSix on January 03, 2012, 08:12:36 PM
And as fine as his behavior was AFTER he shot her, it still doesn't negate the poor judgement he displayed leading TO the shooting.

As my dad used to tell me, "just ONE 'aw shit' will wipe out a full thousand 'atta boys'".
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: NHSparky on January 03, 2012, 08:13:01 PM
You hunt, I don't so I will defer to you opinion.  That said, I don't think this is that rare as I seem to read about this stuff every year.   Horrifying yes, but if I was out walking my dog at my old house and I got shot the first thing pretty much every  town regular would has asked me was were you wearing a vest, and if I wasn't they would immediately roll  their eyes at me.  

I guess they just expect idiot hunters to do stuff like this more commonly than the rest of the country then.   :-)

The reason this happens more than it should is because a lot of hunters, cops or not, know ****-all about hunting safety. If someones gets shot but wasn't wearing a vest, they don't rate eye rolls because some jagoff doesn't know the difference between a dog and a deer. That's like saying a rape victim in Dorcheste deserves an eye roll because they weren't wearing a chastity belt.
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: Rebel on January 03, 2012, 08:17:55 PM
And as fine as his behavior was AFTER he shot her, it still doesn't negate the poor judgement he displayed leading TO the shooting.

As my dad used to tell me, "just ONE 'aw shit' will wipe out a full thousand 'atta boys'".
This again.
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: Rebel on January 03, 2012, 08:20:02 PM
BTW, was she walking the dogs on a road, dirt or paved? It's illegal to shoot a deer on a road here.
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: NHSparky on January 04, 2012, 08:13:27 AM
BTW, was she walking the dogs on a road, dirt or paved? It's illegal to shoot a deer on a road here.

She was walking them through the woods.  Similar laws exist in Mass.
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: Eupher on January 04, 2012, 08:44:48 AM
I don't hunt, and never had.  I do live in an area that has and sees a great deal of hunters.   I am a born and raised city girl who learned the ropes pretty damn quick when I moved to rural America.   This woman has some negligence here also.   It was late, and she had no reflective gear on.   She should have known better.

Shit happens.  Poor hunter or not, he did nothing illegal.   



Sorry, FL, but the woman walking the dog isn't obligated to wear reflective gear. Just because she's walking the dog where she's walking it, that doesn't mean she's automatically in tune with whatever hunting activity is going on. It's incumbent on the HUNTER to be certain of his target and his circumstances -- not the woman.
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: CG6468 on January 04, 2012, 09:49:53 AM
Sorry, FL, but the woman walking the dog isn't obligated to wear reflective gear. Just because she's walking the dog where she's walking it, that doesn't mean she's automatically in tune with whatever hunting activity is going on. It's incumbent on the HUNTER to be certain of his target and his circumstances -- not the woman.

 :cheersmate:   :agree:
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: formerlurker on January 04, 2012, 05:40:31 PM
She was walking them through the woods.  Similar laws exist in Mass.

I posted the laws, and if you look at the articles you will see her children want a full investigation done, but her husband (who hunts with the state trooper as he is their neighbor) forgave him for the error.  

He did state that he was concerned because he wasn't sure of his target and he should have known not to take the shot.

Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: formerlurker on January 04, 2012, 05:40:59 PM
The reason this happens more than it should is because a lot of hunters, cops or not, know ****-all about hunting safety. If someones gets shot but wasn't wearing a vest, they don't rate eye rolls because some jagoff doesn't know the difference between a dog and a deer. That's like saying a rape victim in Dorcheste deserves an eye roll because they weren't wearing a chastity belt.

Yeah because hunting and rape are the same.    :whatever:
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: formerlurker on January 04, 2012, 05:42:47 PM
Sorry, FL, but the woman walking the dog isn't obligated to wear reflective gear. Just because she's walking the dog where she's walking it, that doesn't mean she's automatically in tune with whatever hunting activity is going on. It's incumbent on the HUNTER to be certain of his target and his circumstances -- not the woman.

It's called prudence.   Obligated? no.   Just stupidity not doing so during hunting season when her entire family are hunters and she lives next to popular hunting grounds.
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: vesta111 on January 05, 2012, 06:44:48 AM
It's called prudence.   Obligated? no.   Just stupidity not doing so during hunting season when her entire family are hunters and she lives next to popular hunting grounds.

The shooting took place after sunset and just before black powder rifle deer hunting season ended on Saturday.

After sunset is the key here.     Unless one is Jacking Deer, why not just go the hell home?????

How does one mistake a dog for a deer, heck our deer have long legs and I have yet to see one less then 3 feet from the ground. Excepting fawns.

Question here,   was the woman with the dogs wearing WHITE mittins or gloves that in the semi darkness look like a deer flag ??

The woman knowing it was last day of deer hunting and the sun just gone down may have decided it was safe to walk her dogs.

I refuse to believe the Hunter was shooting at the dogs, I believe he saw the woman about the right hight for a deer and fired in his last chance to get a deer that year.  We have some good size deer up here.

Farmers are known to use spray paint on their stock in deer season, a big orange C O W on both sides of their animals.

As this woman was a senior citizen she most likely was not that far from her house, what was the hunter doing fireing that close to dwellings and the like in those conditions?   

Where is it said that citizens cannot go about their lives without buying some sort of protection from hunters after or at sun down???   Hunters wear the bright orange who expects grandma to have to do the same at the very end of hunting season at sun down???

We had about 5 years ago a woman hanging out clothes on a line when she was shot and killed----she was wearing WHITE mittens at the time.

Darn if we wish to hunt, as I did years ago, go for the deep woods, know where there are people and stay far, far away.

This Hunter is 100% at fault and there is no way I will believe he was aiming at a less then 3 foot dog.



Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: NHSparky on January 05, 2012, 08:41:27 AM
Yeah because hunting and rape are the same.    :whatever:

You seem to have made that link first.  I as a hunter am responsible for being sure of my target.

I'm also guessing that if someone walked through the woods with an orange vest blowing a horn and flashing lights, the hunters might get a bit pissed for scaring all the game away.

Bottom line, if it's to the point where non-hunters have to fear getting shot, then the hunters, not the others, are to blame for that.
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: NHSparky on January 05, 2012, 08:42:50 AM
It's called prudence.   Obligated? no.   Just stupidity not doing so during hunting season when her entire family are hunters and she lives next to popular hunting grounds.

And what happens when some dipshit fires at rustling bushes (as has happened)?  How you going to lay blame on her then?
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: Eupher on January 05, 2012, 08:44:57 AM
It's called prudence.   Obligated? no.   Just stupidity not doing so during hunting season when her entire family are hunters and she lives next to popular hunting grounds.

Okay, chastise her for stupidity. No sweat off my brow. But there are lots of stupid people on the planet, but that doesn't merit being shot for it.

Again, the burden of effort belongs on the hunter, who is contemplating letting loose a projectile that can kill. All the woman is trying to do is walk her dogs.
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: Gina on January 05, 2012, 09:12:48 AM
I say anyone that goes outside during hunting season BETTER be wearing a vest!  It should be law damnit!  :hyper:
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: formerlurker on January 05, 2012, 09:18:50 AM
You seem to have made that link first.  I as a hunter am responsible for being sure of my target.

I'm also guessing that if someone walked through the woods with an orange vest blowing a horn and flashing lights, the hunters might get a bit pissed for scaring all the game away.

Bottom line, if it's to the point where non-hunters have to fear getting shot, then the hunters, not the others, are to blame for that.

I never made that link. 

It was an accident.  He was not charged because he was within a defined hunting area that she breached and as a hunter should have know better.   The guy feels horrible.   He did something stupid.   

Let it go for Pete's sake.
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: formerlurker on January 05, 2012, 09:19:51 AM
And what happens when some dipshit fires at rustling bushes (as has happened)?  How you going to lay blame on her then?

Accidents don't happen in the hunting world?   They are accident free?  or only when the "real" hunters are hunting.


 :whatever:
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: Rebel on January 05, 2012, 09:25:45 AM
Accidents don't happen in the hunting world?   They are accident free?  or only when the "real" hunters are hunting.


 :whatever:

Accidents? Accidents are easily avoided. Know what you're shooting at. An accident is firing at a deer, the round misses and hits a rock and ricochets off hitting someone. This wasn't an accident; this was incompetence.
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: formerlurker on January 05, 2012, 10:08:10 AM
Accidents? Accidents are easily avoided. Know what you're shooting at. An accident is firing at a deer, the round misses and hits a rock and ricochets off hitting someone. This wasn't an accident; this was incompetence.

He did something stupid.   He is lucky she is alive.   Her husband, who is a gun safety instructor, forgave his hunting pal.   

Case closed. 

Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: NHSparky on January 05, 2012, 11:28:24 AM
Accidents don't happen in the hunting world?   They are accident free?  or only when the "real" hunters are hunting.


 :whatever:

Yup--accidents happen.  But not accidental shootings.  That to me is one of the biggest crocks of shit ever, and a cop out.  "Accidental shooting"?  Really?  Did the gun just jump out of your hand and pull its own trigger?

No, it's NEGLIGENCE, plain and simple.  That guy made a conscious decision to aim and fire his weapon without positively identifying his target.  That's not an accident.

Falling out of a tree-stand and shattering your ankle, like one of my co-workers has done?  Yeah, that's an accident.  But when guns go boom and people get hurt or killed, that's not an accident.
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: Karin on January 05, 2012, 02:30:19 PM
The exact same debate happened here a few years ago.  Only it wasn't a dog, it was a mother of infant twins who got killed.  She was wearing white mittens.  A fine upstanding citizen was the shooter.  The case was disposed of with no blame placed.  Tore this place apart. 

I for one, do not go on strolls through woods during hunting season. 
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: catsmtrods on January 06, 2012, 05:08:38 AM
There is absolutely NO excuse! The only hunting accident does no involve a firearm IMO. Your walking thru the woods in the dark getting to your stand and you get a branch shoved up your nose! That's a hunting accident. Or you fall out your stand. You DON"T have accidents with guns period! You have stupidity and carelessness enough to be criminal in this case. You should have respect for the animal your hunting. Not just to be sure its a deer your shooting but to be sure you know exactly where that bullet is going to hit that animal. Blasting away at an animal and wounding it as to have its suffer for the rest of its life is criminal to me also. 
  He should be in jail! 
Title: Re: Massholistani Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
Post by: vesta111 on January 06, 2012, 06:52:40 AM
There is absolutely NO excuse! The only hunting accident does no involve a firearm IMO. Your walking thru the woods in the dark getting to your stand and you get a branch shoved up your nose! That's a hunting accident. Or you fall out your stand. You DON"T have accidents with guns period! You have stupidity and carelessness enough to be criminal in this case. You should have respect for the animal your hunting. Not just to be sure its a deer your shooting but to be sure you know exactly where that bullet is going to hit that animal. Blasting away at an animal and wounding it as to have its suffer for the rest of its life is criminal to me also. 
  He should be in jail! 

I have to agree with Cats, some idiots will not bother to track the wounded game takes too much time for their taste  by tracking for hours on end at times.     Never go hunting with anyone that will not track a wounded animal and put them out of their misery.

Then the disturbing thought that if the hunter and the husband of the shot woman were old hunting partners, why was the shooter not aware that his Buddy's wife walked her dogs in that area????

Watching too much Alfred Hitchock,  I guess.