The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Tucker on December 29, 2011, 08:39:53 AM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/100282546
Wed Dec 28, 2011, 09:22 PM
Star Member JI7
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Pregnant girl, 17, skips cancer care to save her baby — and loses her own life
from the story she got pregnant after she found out she had cancer. i will say that i think she had a right to make the choice she did. but from what i read i just don't agree with it. they say the tumors had started to shrink and it seems like they thought she could stop treatment for a while to have the baby and continue treatment again.
maybe if she were older. but i just have a hard time with the decisions she made. is there anyone on here who can agree with her side. i'm not talking about whether you think she had a right to it as i support that also but if you agree with her decision.
of course if i was 17 and got pregnant and even without cancer or any health issues i would probably still have an abortion.
<A day after the Nov. 9 birth, Phillips learned that her daughter's decision to forgo treatment for tumors on her brain and spine so she could carry the baby would have fatal repercussions. The cancer had marked too much territory. Nothing could be done, Phillips said.
It was only 12 days past the birth - half spent in the hospital and the other half at home - before Jenni was gone.
Even so, her family and friends insist her legacy is not one centered in tragedy, but rather in sacrifice.>
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/a-mother-love-pregnant-girl-17-skips-cancer-care-save-baby-loses-life-article-1.997446#ixzz1ht0NlK69
Most of the replies agree with her decision, but there are a few selfish DUmmies who believe that abortion is the only true choice.
Response to JI7 (Original post)
Wed Dec 28, 2011, 09:42 PM
pitohui
8. well i agree it's not a tragedy but rather a darwin award
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very hard for me to have any sympathy for anyone of any age who makes the choice to get pregnant after a cancer diagnosis
if you want to kill yourself, do it honestly, instead of getting a child involved who will have the guilt hanging over its head lifelong
there is nothing on her side to agree with, it sounds like she was severely mentally ill, chemotherapy does affect the brain and sometimes the ability to make good decisions
this is assuming what you and the story say is true -- that we are not talking about someone already pregnant who found out she had cancer and decided to sacrifice her life for the child, we're talking about someone who had the cancer FIRST and THEN got pregnant, effectively creating the perfect excuse for not being able to continue w. chemo
in that case she wanted to die and i do not celebrate a 17 year old choosing death and using a baby as an excuse for suicide
Response to JI7 (Original post)
Wed Dec 28, 2011, 10:11 PM
Occupy_2012
14. Unfortunately, this is going to be held up as how every woman should do it, no matter what.
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Different situations are different. Sounds like this girl had no perfect outcome no matter what. Others have cancer or other serious illnesses and may have a good chance to fully recover. However, right to lifers believe there is a one size fits all solution to all these stories.
This story will make the rounds as "she did the right thing, other women are selfish evil murders because they want to save themselves first." There's a propaganda war going on out there. I've seen to many Fundamentalist Christian stories about these sorts of cases - they really try to make women who choose to save themselves feel like they are going to hell - literally.
All of us will have to answer for the decisions we make.
Response to JI7 (Original post)
Thu Dec 29, 2011, 12:06 AM
Star Member RC
21. Stupid choice. What are the chances the baby will develop the same cancer in it teens or early 20's?
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Has anyone heard of hereditary problems?
Getting pregnant after a cancer diagnosis is not a sign of genius. With 7 Billion of us, the baby would not be missed.
Idiot.
Response to RC (Reply #21)
Thu Dec 29, 2011, 12:29 AM
unionworks (1,148 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
24. Please think
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...about what you posted, and then apologize to all on DU who are cancer victims, survivors, or friends or relatives of same. We all make mistakes...
Response to unionworks (Reply #24)
Thu Dec 29, 2011, 12:38 AM
Star Member REP (12,782 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
25. Actually, I've had cancer, and my father died from a particularly nasty form of cancer
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RC doesn't need to apologize to me. I think the choice the girl made was spectacularly stupid on any number of levels. Hers to make, true; but mind-bendingly stupid.
Response to RC (Reply #21)
Thu Dec 29, 2011, 01:12 AM
DesMoinesDem (108 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
32. A fan of eugenics on DU.
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Who else shouldn't have children to spare the world of their possibly imperfect offspring?
Not quite. Eugenics was devised by liberals to control the negro population.
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It seems a very honorable choice to me, with such an aggressive cancer how much more life and what diminishing quality of life would she be really looking at, given the probability of outcomes? She gave her life to leave her surviving family a piece of herself to continue loving. RIP, you brave young woman.
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After reading the article it seemed that she had a slim chance of survival and if she did having children would be out. Hard choice to make and no real right answer.
My heart goes out to her family and loved ones. I hope her little boy knows what she sacrificed for him.
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pitohui
8. well i agree it's not a tragedy but rather a darwin award
i do not celebrate a 17 year old choosing death and using a baby as an excuse for suicide
The Darwin Awards are a tongue-in-cheek honor, created by Wendy Northcutt to recognize individuals who contribute to human evolution by self-selecting themselves out of the gene pool through putting themselves (unnecessarily) in life-threatening situations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_Awards
Well, DUmbass, it would appear that the brave young lady managed to procreate before she shuffled off her mortal coil so she's a bit out of the running for deleting her genetic strain from humanity in a spectacularly DUmbass fashion.
Incidentally, DUmbass, "suicide" is a cowardly act committed by shallow, immature, emotionally stunted cretins like you and your fellow DUmp liberals who have no thought of anyone else and think the axis of the Earth goes in through the top of their head and exits the crack of their ass.
Occupy_2012
14. Unfortunately, this is going to be held up as how every woman should do it, no matter what.
This story will make the rounds as "she did the right thing, other women are selfish evil murders because they want to save themselves first." There's a propaganda war going on out there. I've seen to many Fundamentalist Christian stories about these sorts of cases - they really try to make women who choose to save themselves feel like they are going to hell - literally.
a·ga·pe 2 (ä-gäp, äg-p)
n.
1. Love as revealed in Jesus, seen as spiritual and selfless and a model for humanity.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/agape
John 15:13
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
http://bible.cc/john/15-13.htm
Yeah, I can see where you would have a problem with this, DUmbass.
Star Member RC
21.
Getting pregnant after a cancer diagnosis is not a sign of genius. With 7 Billion of us, the baby would not be missed.
"I notice that all those people who favor abortion have already been born."
President Ronald Reagan, responding to a reporter's question in a 1984 press conference
One member of DU that gets it right. From the looks of the low post count, DMD won't last long after holding the mirror up to the savages.
DesMoinesDem (108 posts)
32. A fan of eugenics on DU.
Who else shouldn't have children to spare the world of their possibly imperfect offspring?
God bless you, DMD.
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It seems a very honorable choice to me, with such an aggressive cancer how much more life and what diminishing quality of life would she be really looking at, given the probability of outcomes? She gave her life to leave her surviving family a piece of herself to continue loving. RIP, you brave young woman.
Abso-frikkin'-lutely.
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Star Member RC
21.
Getting pregnant after a cancer diagnosis is not a sign of genius. With 7 Billion of us, the baby would not be missed.
I doubt that you would be missed either. Just make sure that you get your whole head in front of the shotgun.
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With 7 Billion of us, the baby would not be missed.
God, I am stunned again. Where do these people come from? What the hell did their parent's do to them? I am almost afraid to ask if they were beaten or molested by their parent's because I think the answer might be, Yes! There has to be something that happened to these people to make the comments they make. Damn. :(
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I doubt that you would be missed either. Just make sure that you get your whole head in front of the shotgun.
H5. Unlike evey non-mole on DU, all of whom stew in fail daily as if it was the broth of their lives, the baby may yet amount to something.
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H5. Unlike evey non-mole on DU, all of whom stew in fail daily as if it was the broth of their lives, the baby may yet amount to something.
Obama didn't
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Obama didn't
Compared to DUers, he did; despite giving us truly relentless suckage as a President, at least he isn't collecting disability, WIC, unemployment, etc., and bitching about how it isn't enough.
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Compared to DUers, he did; despite giving us truly relentless suckage as a President, at least he isn't collecting disability, WIC, unemployment, etc., and bitching about how it isn't enough.
His goal is to get the 99% on one of these programs . They will be forced to vote democrat to keep the cash cow alive.
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Most of you know my story about when I got pregnant and was told to abort by my doctors but refused. When you are a parent or about to become a parent your well being comes second to your child. I can not understand their lust for abortion. It seems when ever a story like this or another story when a woman has more than their "allotment" of children they turn into these monstrous "people".
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Most of you know my story about when I got pregnant and was told to abort by my doctors but refused. When you are a parent or about to become a parent your well being comes second to your child. I can not understand their lust for abortion. It seems when ever a story like this or another story when a woman has more than their "allotment" of children they turn into these monstrous "people".
You would think they would love more kids so they would be able to continue to live off the gov't with those future working tax payers coming from Republican parents.
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I can not understand their lust for abortion.
They exalt their own worthless lives over everything else, since they do not believe in a higher power, their own nation, or even the human race or their own posterity, all of which they foreswear. It is their own vile way of validating their own pointless hedonism as something more than the moral void it really is.
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What happened to the DUmmies and a "Womans right to choose"?
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What happened to the DUmmies and a "Womans right to choose"?
They believe women have a right to choose abortion, no other choices.
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What happened to the DUmmies and a "Womans right to choose"?
Same thing that happens to all other "rights" DUmmies think we should have.
Unless they apply to DUmmies and liberals, and the way DUmmies and liberals WANT them to apply, they don't exist.
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Same thing that happens to all other "rights" DUmmies think we should have.
Unless they apply to DUmmies and liberals, and the way DUmmies and liberals WANT them to apply, they don't exist.
:bawl: :bawl: :bawl: Only 17 knowing she was going to die perhaps she just may have wanted to leave a piece of her self behind to carry on her blood line. This is not selfish, this is the way humans act and believe. Shit, animals will risk death to protect their young.
Now had she been 30 years old with 3-4 other kids , oh yes even the Conservatives would have come down on her.
" How can YOU do this to your family, if you have this child and die leaving the family to raise the other kids, there will be just one more child to find a home for. The children you have need a mother, if not giving birth to this child could mean you have a chance to live a few more years with them, Why take the chance on destroying the lives of the living children for the sake of the unborn"??
Then the old guilt trip, "Science may find a cure for the medical problems in 6 months, then if you wish you can have another child."
Been there, done that ,heard that and much more from loving family members that were more concerned they would get stuck raising my older kids and another new one to boot.
My favorite was a old time Conservative that felt I was insane to risk the lives of my 2 kids for for something they said I could not have bonded with YET.
In that day and age there were no sonograms, the only thing I had going for me was a Navy young Tec in ex ray doing an ex-ray of my kidneys and to their surprise filmed the head of the growing baby. Against all regulations they came all excited to my bed side with the ex-ray and we looked in wonder at the skull, eye sockets and even found the buds of baby teeth moving into position.
Long time ago, I forgave the family's that at that time 1970 had no idea about the human condition and what went on to build a baby. Hell my first 2 children about all I knew was to hear the heart beats of an alien in my stomach, something odd, for all I knew the heart beat could have come somehow from a freaking thing that looked like a rabbit. Yes I knew how the baby got there and had pictures from books to show me what stage I was at, however it is one thing to see pictures and another to have a growing belly that one finds placing a dish atop of the belly using the belly as a table find something inside that belly kicked the dish to the floor.
Wonderful science, My male doctors had the theory's and the experience of cadavers down pat, however at that time they had seldom seen inside a living pregnant woman to watch a living baby develop in person.
Strange this was my wake up call to understand the Church and its stand that the baby's life came before the mothers.
I can understand why some States with big Abortion clinics will not enforce a cooling off period for abortions or insist the patient review sonograms to see their baby's before they are removed as a wart or tumor.
One hell of a shock to see what has been growing inside a woman, this is not a bunch of cells, this is a human being, how do the patients that do see this live with themselves after what is in PC terms called a PROCEDURE ????
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Now had she been 30 years old with 3-4 other kids , oh yes even the Conservatives would have come down on her.
" How can YOU do this to your family, if you have this child and die leaving the family to raise the other kids, there will be just one more child to find a home for. The children you have need a mother, if not giving birth to this child could mean you have a chance to live a few more years with them, Why take the chance on destroying the lives of the living children for the sake of the unborn"??
Then the old guilt trip, "Science may find a cure for the medical problems in 6 months, then if you wish you can have another child."
No, stupid, they wouldn't have. Where do you come up with this crap?
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Now had she been 30 years old with 3-4 other kids , oh yes even the Conservatives would have come down on her.
Surely you jest because I do not know of one conservative that would say such a thing. Are you a conservative? do you think such things?
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Surely you jest because I do not know of one conservative that would say such a thing. Are you a conservative? do you think such things?
In answer to your questions: No she isn't, and she doesn't think, ever. It gets in the way of random feelings that rattle around her head.
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Surely you jest
No, she doesn't, and don't call her Shirley.
:-)
Are you a conservative? do you think such things?
Vestanumbers is a firm believer in "medical" maryjane and voted for obama "just to shake things up". You can probably make any further deductions from there.
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VESTA voted for Obama?
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Leave it to the morally bankrupt on DU to focus on the dark cloud and find fault with the silver lining.
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VESTA voted for Obama?
You're surprised?
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You're surprised?
Well actually I am. I would think that she would have been run out of the CC to be honest for that. :mental:
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Well actually I am. I would think that she would have been run out of the CC to be honest for that. :mental:
Actually, from the gist of her latest ramblings (no other word to describe them, really), she sounds like she thinks that she was duped by Hopey McChangesnorter.
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I would think that she would have been run out of the CC to be honest for that. :mental:
Nah, not for voting for the wrong guy. Besides, we have to have someone around who we can look at and hold up as a standard for the "wow, I thought I was hosed up" moments.
Call it the "Springer effect".
:-)
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Well actually I am. I would think that she would have been run out of the CC to be honest for that. :mental:
We're not DU.
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Definetly changes my thoughts on vesta and her posts.
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Call it the "Springer effect".
That's a good observation.
Whenever someone quotes a vestanumbers post (don't see them otherwise, she's on ignore) the first thing that comes
to mind is a picture of the audience at a Jerry Springer or Maury Povich show.
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(596)
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:rofl:
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No, stupid, they wouldn't have. Where do you come up with this crap?
Oh yes they did, very surprising how people will react when a pregnant child is facing perhaps death that they could avoid just by having a procedure done. ----------- Their thinking not mine.
I found that some very conservitive people are conservitive when others are effected, when it comes to their own family all that goes out the window. Both sides of the family were in an uproar on who would raise my kids if I died, and one in law told me I had no way of knowing if both me and the baby would die.
They were hardly a joyfull supportive bunch, they were terrified that I was making the worse decision I could make for my other 2 kids and both sides of the family would have their lives changed forever.
I made the right decision, but that was not the worse of it, 9 months later I found out I was again pregnant.
This time they acted like I was deliberately getting pregnant just to spite them. My in laws refused to even speak to me and my parents were in shock.
My 4 baby's, each one a gift from God, all still alive today, 6 grandchildren, the Good Lord was very kind to me,
A Priest once told me that God had plans in the future for these kids, perhaps I would not live long enough to ever know why he sent these baby's to me but somewhere in the following generations his will , will be done.
WASP, there is something about a sudden death that shocks, surprises and causes family's to pull together.
Anticipating a death for months at a time, can drive one into doing and saying things that they never would think of saying otherwise. I finally realised that after 2 long years watching my Dad die.
The kids grandparents were the old generation WW2 vets and were still confused how the generation of their parents could have allowed the death camps and the internment camps to exist. I have to believe they were having a hard time understanding the hippies, the protests and in their 60's scared of having to raise grandkids when their own health was not great.
They were Conservatives of the time all so different from today.--------or were they ????
And yes I did vote for for Obama, and Hell hath no furry like a woman scorned. That SOB tricked me, the slippery snake, for some reason I suspended reality when I believed he could better the world.
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What happened to the DUmmies and a "Womans right to choose"?
A woman's right to choose ends at the point where she's bringing "too many people' into this world.
:mental:
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Vesta is our Nadin.
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Vesta is our Nadin.
I can't believe I'm doing this . . .
Not quite, milady. Nadin tries to sound high and mighty, and comes across as condescending. Vesta just tries to sound . . . and comes across as rambling, but every now and then, she does have a moment of crystal-clear lucidity. I think that one could count the total number of Nadin supporters without taking off their shoes and socks. Vesta? Not only would I have to take off my shoes and socks, but so would you, and Coach, and deb, and chris, and BEG, and Gina . . . I think that you get the picture.
(GOBUCKS wouldn't have to. :tongue: )
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I've had to deal with cancer on a fairly close-to-home basis in the past.
There comes a point where you say "**** it. The treatment has pretty much a zero percent chance of succeeding and it'll make me feel like complete ass for my last remaining days on earth". You're dead either way and chances are you know it.
How can they begrudge someone for wanting to leave a piece of them self behind knowing it was a last resort to do so ?
Shouldn't a bunch of people who would insist on a Darwinian model of existence praise a person who propagated their genetic material - as a last resort when they knew they were going to depart the gene pool ?
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I've had to deal with cancer on a fairly close-to-home basis in the past.
There comes a point where you say "**** it. The treatment has pretty much a zero percent chance of succeeding and it'll make me feel like complete ass for my last remaining days on earth". You're dead either way and chances are you know it.
How can they begrudge someone for wanting to leave a piece of them self behind knowing it was a last resort to do so ?
Shouldn't a bunch of people who would insist on a Darwinian model of existence praise a person who propagated their genetic material - as a last resort when they knew they were going to depart the gene pool ?
When it's someone who doesn't share their views, their sacrament of abortion continues to be their Holy Grail.
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When it's someone who doesn't share their views, their sacrament of abortion continues to be their Holy Grail.
Yep, women should have "choice," but the only correct choice is to abort. Their hatred of children is absolute.
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Yep, women should have "choice," but the only correct choice is to abort. Their hatred of children is absolute.
Target, ceasefire . . . and the H5.
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I have mixed feelings about this. If the story is true, that she was likely to die no matter what, then it's not really about the mom anymore.
When I just read the posts, I thought she specifically tried to get pregnant so she could leave a baby behind. I think that would have been a very poor choice. The child's mother is dead, his father is a teenager, his grandparents are divorced. I'm sure he will be loved, but it's not an ideal situation.
After reading the article, I realized she had unprotected sex, because she and her boyfriend thought she was sterile. I still think having unprotected sex under those circumstances was still a poor choice.
Not aborting the baby, however; was the right thing to do. His situation is not ideal, but whose is? It's certainly better than being killed by your mom.
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Quote from: vesta111 on December 30, 2011, 06:15:19 am
Now had she been 30 years old with 3-4 other kids , oh yes even the Conservatives would have come down on her.
" How can YOU do this to your family, if you have this child and die leaving the family to raise the other kids, there will be just one more child to find a home for. The children you have need a mother, if not giving birth to this child could mean you have a chance to live a few more years with them, Why take the chance on destroying the lives of the living children for the sake of the unborn"??
Vista I had two children (one 7 and the other 5) and was 32 when I found out I was pregnant. I was on a chemotherapy drug (methotrexate) that causes miscarriage and spina bifida. I have a disease (takayasu arthritis) that they have very little imformation on in regards to pregnancy. I had had a stroke 4 years earlier, had two arteries totally blocked from inflammation, one artery with reverse flow and three with stints. I was told not to have any more kids. My doctors told me to abort for a multitude of reasons...I didn't give it a second thought.
From the moment I found out I was pregnant she was my daughter. You offend me with your "Why take the chance on destroying the lives of the living children for the sake of the unborn". I would do it over again in a heart beat, even without the guarentee of the same outcome.
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Vista I had two children (one 7 and the other 5) and was 32 when I found out I was pregnant. I was on a chemotherapy drug (methotrexate) that causes miscarriage and spina bifida. I have a disease (takayasu arthritis) that they have very little imformation on in regards to pregnancy. I had had a stroke 4 years earlier, had two arteries totally blocked from inflammation, one artery with reverse flow and three with stints. I was told not to have any more kids. My doctors told me to abort for a multitude of reasons...I didn't give it a second thought.
From the moment I found out I was pregnant she was my daughter. You offend me with your "Why take the chance on destroying the lives of the living children for the sake of the unborn". I would do it over again in a heart beat, even without the guarentee of the same outcome.
You're my kinda gal. :cheersmate:
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Remember DU's outrage of the 19 year old hypochondriac drug addict habitual liar attention whore from #OccupyWherever that claimed the police killed her 3 month old unborn child?
...
DU doesn't
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Vista I had two children (one 7 and the other 5) and was 32 when I found out I was pregnant. I was on a chemotherapy drug (methotrexate) that causes miscarriage and spina bifida. I have a disease (takayasu arthritis) that they have very little imformation on in regards to pregnancy. I had had a stroke 4 years earlier, had two arteries totally blocked from inflammation, one artery with reverse flow and three with stints. I was told not to have any more kids. My doctors told me to abort for a multitude of reasons...I didn't give it a second thought.
From the moment I found out I was pregnant she was my daughter. You offend me with your "Why take the chance on destroying the lives of the living children for the sake of the unborn". I would do it over again in a heart beat, even without the guarentee of the same outcome.
Your last paragraph made me tear up. Great mom! I have taken the meth shot many times due to ectopic pregnancies and it was horrible knowing what it was going to do to my baby.
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Your last paragraph made me tear up. Great mom! I have taken the meth shot many times due to ectopic pregnancies and it was horrible knowing what it was going to do to my baby.
How many ectopic pregnancies have you had Gina? :( I had three misscarriages between my two older children. Each one was very hard on me.
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I can't believe I'm doing this . . .
Not quite, milady. Nadin tries to sound high and mighty, and comes across as condescending. Vesta just tries to sound . . . and comes across as rambling, but every now and then, she does have a moment of crystal-clear lucidity. I think that one could count the total number of Nadin supporters without taking off their shoes and socks. Vesta? Not only would I have to take off my shoes and socks, but so would you, and Coach, and deb, and chris, and BEG, and Gina . . . I think that you get the picture.
(GOBUCKS wouldn't have to. :tongue: )
I have no idea what vestanumbers posts except in those painful cases when someone quotes her.
She's a rambling, boring dunce.
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Vista I had two children (one 7 and the other 5) and was 32 when I found out I was pregnant. I was on a chemotherapy drug (methotrexate) that causes miscarriage and spina bifida. I have a disease (takayasu arthritis) that they have very little imformation on in regards to pregnancy. I had had a stroke 4 years earlier, had two arteries totally blocked from inflammation, one artery with reverse flow and three with stints. I was told not to have any more kids. My doctors told me to abort for a multitude of reasons...I didn't give it a second thought.
From the moment I found out I was pregnant she was my daughter. You offend me with your "Why take the chance on destroying the lives of the living children for the sake of the unborn". I would do it over again in a heart beat, even without the guarentee of the same outcome.
You offend me with your "Why take the chance on destroying the lives of the living children for the sake of the unborn". I would do it over again in a heart beat, even without the guarentee of the same outcome.
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YES BEG, if offended me when I was told that, very thing to my face, by in-laws that were more concerned for themselves having to raise my 2 children when I refused to abort.
When I hear about others that have to fight family and Doctors to insist on protecting the life within them, then have to handle the guilt [of the others] that advised against ignoring Doctors orders and end up with a healthy child, Oh my , devastating the complications in family life for them in the future.
For me, I found the in-laws were never comfortable around the last two, the ones they insisted I abort especially when both healthy and active came running into the room. Not the kind of people to admit or apologise for their past tirades over my insistence that the new life came before mine.
My parents were of the sort that did apologise and were thrilled to have the baby's born healthy and I recovered from kidney disease.
The in laws, sad but they only saw the kids again half a dozen times by their wish not mine. Odd how some people are so angry when their wishes are not followed and everything comes out OK, it is like a slap in the face to them.
It is a crazy life for women who marry into a family and meet for the first time they that live 3,000 miles away after the wedding. We are in love with their son but have no idea what his parents are like, will they except you or see you as a an interloper into the family.
Mother in laws,[ some ] refuse to release the apron strings to their sons, expect their sons to side with them and when they stick up for their wife, some kind or maternal instinct kicks in and they come to hate the woman that took their boy from them.
Very complicated, life is. Some things one can forgive and forget, others leave open wounds that last a life time.
Kids call or come to visit, today and I still have a difficult time to not roll my eyes sky wood and feel sorry for the departed that are no longer here to understand , or to have been part of the life of the wonderful kids I risked my life to bring forth.
There was never a question in my mind about my purpose on earth, never occurred to me to sacrifice my baby's for the benefit of anyone.
Still angry after all these years at the in laws that never forgave me or the kids for going against their wishes and making life easier on them.
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You offend me with your "Why take the chance on destroying the lives of the living children for the sake of the unborn". I would do it over again in a heart beat, even without the guarentee of the same outcome.
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YES BEG, if offended me when I was told that, very thing to my face, by in-laws that were more concerned for themselves having to raise my 2 children when I refused to abort.
When I hear about others that have to fight family and Doctors to insist on protecting the life within them, then have to handle the guilt [of the others] that advised against ignoring Doctors orders and end up with a healthy child, Oh my , devastating the complications in family life for them in the future.
For me, I found the in-laws were never comfortable around the last two, the ones they insisted I abort especially when both healthy and active came running into the room. Not the kind of people to admit or apologise for their past tirades over my insistence that the new life came before mine.
My parents were of the sort that did apologise and were thrilled to have the baby's born healthy and I recovered from kidney disease.
The in laws, sad but they only saw the kids again half a dozen times by their wish not mine. Odd how some people are so angry when their wishes are not followed and everything comes out OK, it is like a slap in the face to them.
It is a crazy life for women who marry into a family and meet for the first time they that live 3,000 miles away after the wedding. We are in love with their son but have no idea what his parents are like, will they except you or see you as a an interloper into the family.
Mother in laws,[ some ] refuse to release the apron strings to their sons, expect their sons to side with them and when they stick up for their wife, some kind or maternal instinct kicks in and they come to hate the woman that took their boy from them.
Very complicated, life is. Some things one can forgive and forget, others leave open wounds that last a life time.
Kids call or come to visit, today and I still have a difficult time to not roll my eyes sky wood and feel sorry for the departed that are no longer here to understand , or to have been part of the life of the wonderful kids I risked my life to bring forth.
There was never a question in my mind about my purpose on earth, never occurred to me to sacrifice my baby's for the benefit of anyone.
Still angry after all these years at the in laws that never forgave me or the kids for going against their wishes and making life easier on them.
I haven't read all of your post yet but why would your in-laws have any say in you aborting or not? Don't you have a husband that would take care of them if something happened to you?
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I haven't read all of your post yet but why would your in-laws have any say in you aborting or not? Don't you have a husband that would take care of them if something happened to you?
BEG, Hubby had 14 or so years in the Navy at that point, were I to die he would have to abandon his carear at that point and no retirement. All came down to finances for these people and both sides of the family knew the value of retirement, both grandpas were retired Chiefs.
Hubby was the only male in his family, he had 4 older sisters that doted on him, none of who wanted to add my children to their family. Two had no children nor wanted them, the other 2 had more kids then they could handle.
I was an only child, no back up for me, even the Skipper of the Sub worried about how Hubby could function out on patrol for 3 months with worry about me. I was told that if I died while he was out, he would get his fam-grams from someone purporting to be me with bright and cheerfull messages.
A long time ago in a far away time, but the wounds are still there, I was so young, scared and 6,000 miles from home. Two little kids to care for alone for 3 months of the year in a very difficult pregnancy.
Mother sold her car, packed her bags to fly out to care for the kids 3 days before Hubby had to shove off. 6 weeks before my due date and 1 day short of Mother arriving, I gave birth to a 4 pound baby boy. Hubby met Moms plane and to her surprise announced that the new baby, small as it was was healthy. She had not looked forward to spending 6 weeks with me in and out of the hospital.
One day later Hubby had to leave, the Lord had some surprising timing for all this, Mother claims that God has a sense of humor, here we were all shaken up over this and God surprised us with a healthy baby and my health problems went away.
Another surprise 18 months later a baby girl that years later presented us with a grandson that is today a Marine.
OH yes, God had plans for us, how disappointed God must be when people interfear with his plans for the future by Aborting, throwing away his Greatest Gift of the future.
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BEG, Hubby had 14 or so years in the Navy at that point, were I to die he would have to abandon his carear at that point and no retirement. All came down to finances for these people and both sides of the family knew the value of retirement, both grandpas were retired Chiefs.
Hubby was the only male in his family, he had 4 older sisters that doted on him, none of who wanted to add my children to their family. Two had no children nor wanted them, the other 2 had more kids then they could handle.
I was an only child, no back up for me, even the Skipper of the Sub worried about how Hubby could function out on patrol for 3 months with worry about me. I was told that if I died while he was out, he would get his fam-grams from someone purporting to be me with bright and cheerfull messages.
A long time ago in a far away time, but the wounds are still there, I was so young, scared and 6,000 miles from home. Two little kids to care for alone for 3 months of the year in a very difficult pregnancy.
Mother sold her car, packed her bags to fly out to care for the kids 3 days before Hubby had to shove off. 6 weeks before my due date and 1 day short of Mother arriving, I gave birth to a 4 pound baby boy. Hubby met Moms plane and to her surprise announced that the new baby, small as it was was healthy. She had not looked forward to spending 6 weeks with me in and out of the hospital.
One day later Hubby had to leave, the Lord had some surprising timing for all this, Mother claims that God has a sense of humor, here we were all shaken up over this and God surprised us with a healthy baby and my health problems went away.
Another surprise 18 months later a baby girl that years later presented us with a grandson that is today a Marine.
OH yes, God had plans for us, how disappointed God must be when people interfear with his plans for the future by Aborting, throwing away his Greatest Gift of the future.
Been married 23 years, 21 of which I was married to the military. My husband deployed more some years than he was home (USAF have been on a fixed rotation to the sand box since Desert Storm, then of course came the Billy-Jeff humanitarian mission years). When he was away, the military was my family. It has always been this way for the USAF. I am surprised you felt so all alone, as I would imagine the Navy would have very close military family communities.
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Remember DU's outrage of the 19 year old hypochondriac drug addict habitual liar attention whore from #OccupyWherever that claimed the police killed her 3 month old unborn child?
...
DU doesn't
Oh yes, no they don't remember do they?
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Been married 23 years, 21 of which I was married to the military. My husband deployed more some years than he was home (USAF have been on a fixed rotation to the sand box since Desert Storm, then of course came the Billy-Jeff humanitarian mission years). When he was away, the military was my family. It has always been this way for the USAF. I am surprised you felt so all alone, as I would imagine the Navy would have very close military family communities.
It is very close ,unfortunately I myself was never the kind to join woman's groups, I learned very early in life from my Mother that SOME, not all, could become a breeding pit for vipers and the lonly woman that had nothing to do but put down others that they felt did not fit in or are jealous of.
Example, some idiot woman hearing a rumor that there had been an accident on the boat called me out of the blue to with much excitement inform me of a non existant accident. ARGGGGGG. I was 7 months pregnant and scared me to death.
The one and only wife's meeting I went to began to trash a wife with a handicapped child, seems these woman must have spent hours outside her home watching her. None of these woman knew her except in passing, I baby sat for the woman.
The woman had a brother in the Navy on board a floter and would visit her as would her father and mother. Her family checked in on her and the baby often when her hubby was gone to sea.
Unbelievable the problems that came up, the brother and father were now her boyfriends that came when Hubby was out to sea. Soon a couple of wives wrote to their Hubbys that this woman was carrying on, and naturally down the line the husband heard all this.
Neither the husband or wife felt the need to tell anyone about anyone that came to their home, and the fact they did not set people straight led to big problems for them.
The one meeting I went to I blew sky high on these harpies, said my piece and walked out. I had just a few wives friends on the boat, those that stayed far and away from the wives clubs.
I did make friends with the wives who had no connection to Hubbys boat or job. At one time in temporary housing we found ourselves livng in an area of 60% black familys, Marines, and Navy. Best time of our lives. we all pulled together, learned each others traditions and laughed and cried at the strange ideas we had about each others race.
To this day I am very careful of making friends, politics runs deep in friendship, either you love or hate the same thing or you make enemys of those that do not agree with you.
Hard to hold ones tongue when the wives get together and complain about some yeast infection they get every time their Hubby comes home from overseas. Their husbands stand about :whistling: while the Navy Doctors tell the woman it is because it is the wifes fault, they do not wipe correctly or take bubble baths. One does not get out medical books to show a wife they have VD, I just had to grit my teeth. Best to mind my own business and take care of my own family.
Long time ago, the kids father died 25 years ago, we went through some crazy times together.
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Oh yes they did, very surprising how people will react when a pregnant child is facing perhaps death that they could avoid just by having a procedure done. ----------- Their thinking not mine.
I found that some very conservitive people are conservitive when others are effected, when it comes to their own family all that goes out the window. Both sides of the family were in an uproar on who would raise my kids if I died, and one in law told me I had no way of knowing if both me and the baby would die.
They were hardly a joyfull supportive bunch, they were terrified that I was making the worse decision I could make for my other 2 kids and both sides of the family would have their lives changed forever.
I made the right decision, but that was not the worse of it, 9 months later I found out I was again pregnant.
This time they acted like I was deliberately getting pregnant just to spite them. My in laws refused to even speak to me and my parents were in shock.
They were Conservatives of the time all so different from today.--------or were they ????
Pay attention to the bolded, vesta, and tell me if you see a pattern emerge. Look real hard, you just might see that you are basing your opinion off of the actions of your family. Using a microcosm of the stick-straight genetic line from which you flopped forth is hardly a standard to apply to any situation.
So no, vesta, Conservatives don't do that kind of crap.
WASP, there is something about a sudden death that shocks, surprises and causes family's to pull together.
(http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/blogs-prod-photos/7/4/7/a/a/747aa71322684a6f62625525d9598ec8.jpg?stmp=1273284693)
:whatever:
And yes I did vote for for Obama, and Hell hath no furry like a woman scorned. That SOB tricked me, the slippery snake, for some reason I suspended reality when I believed he could better the world.
(http://www.zgeek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47059&d=1309911610)
No, really, you are. What kind of idiotic moonbeams and rainbows dance in your friggin' head to believe that some dipshit marxist rookie was going to save us all and "better the world"? I thought that with age came wisdom but you have certainly proven that to be completely wrong.
I am glad I have gotten to actually observe and interact with a butt-stupid barry big ears voter that bought all of that hokey bullshit he was spewing. It has been the most eye opening experience of my adult life, save the time I realized how much welfare whores were getting paid to sit on their asses and crank out bastard children.
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Pay attention to the bolded, vesta, and tell me if you see a pattern emerge. Look real hard, you just might see that you are basing your opinion off of the actions of your family. Using a microcosm of the stick-straight genetic line from which you flopped forth is hardly a standard to apply to any situation.
So no, vesta, Conservatives don't do that kind of crap.
(http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/blogs-prod-photos/7/4/7/a/a/747aa71322684a6f62625525d9598ec8.jpg?stmp=1273284693)
:whatever:
(http://www.zgeek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47059&d=1309911610)
No, really, you are. What kind of idiotic moonbeams and rainbows dance in your friggin' head to believe that some dipshit Marxist rookie was going to save us all and "better the world"? I thought that with age came wisdom but you have certainly proven that to be completely wrong.
I am glad I have gotten to actually observe and interact with a butt-stupid barry big ears voter that bought all of that hokey bullshit he was spewing. It has been the most eye opening experience of my adult life, save the time I realized how much welfare whores were getting paid to sit on their asses and crank out bastard children.
When do you expect the average person working for aliving. perhaps 2 jobs to be able to spend time outside the few hours they have to spend with family to get involved with the politics of the time, be it town, city or federal???
Hell, the hard workers are too tired to even watch the news on TV.
The welfare whores are family members with husbands that leave in the night, leave the woman to support alone their kids that they desert and run off to make more baby's, the state has now to support Their kids as they go off and make more.
The mothers of these children now are called welfare whores, the fathers are unless arrested, just good old guys that got themselves in a mess.
No such thing as a welfare whore, no woman wants to have a child with out a daddy, -----whats the matter with you,
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No such thing as a welfare whore, no woman wants to have a child with out a daddy, -----whats the matter with you,
You are really thick. Of course they want to have a child without a daddy or they wouldn't open their ****ing legs at every dick that comes their way. It's not like it's a new thing in the "poor" communities this sex thing getting someone pregnant. OMG! you make me so angry sometimes at your stupidity. PLEASE PLEASE! quit giving people excuses for their bad behavior and continious INTENTIONAL mistakes.
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This year, without question, vestanumbers gets nominated for one of the DUmmy awards.
No one at the DUmp is DUmber.
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When do you expect the average person working for aliving. perhaps 2 jobs to be able to spend time outside the few hours they have to spend with family to get involved with the politics of the time, be it town, city or federal???
Hell, the hard workers are too tired to even watch the news on TV.
I was on sea duty when you were throwing your vote away (because you just couldn't be bothered with doing your duty as a friggin' citizen) and I somehow managed to do it. You, fellow citizen, have no excuse.
None.
You, and the rest of the dumbasses that fell for captain hopey-changey because you're just "too tired" to be informed, should have your voting rights stripped for at least the next 3 general election cycles.
The welfare whores are family members with husbands that leave in the night, leave the woman to support alone their kids that they desert and run off to make more baby's, the state has now to support Their kids as they go off and make more.
The mothers of these children now are called welfare whores, the fathers are unless arrested, just good old guys that got themselves in a mess.
Third, the current welfare system rewards dependency and punishes initiative. Welfare does not require recipients to do anything in exchange for their benefits. Many rules actually discourage work, and provide benefits that reduce the incentive to find work. In Maryland, for example, a single parent with two children would need to earn a minimum of $7.50 an hour to earn the same amount as provided by welfare grants and benefits. Is it any wonder that so many welfare mothers therefore conclude that staying on welfare is better than getting off.
http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/welfare.html
No, stupid, they're not.
Either you have not been paying attention (not hard to believe) or you have spent most of the past 40+ years with your head up your ass (even easier to believe), but our government has been taking tax dollars and throwing them at single women who had to do nothing to earn it except have more children and stay single.
You are talking about women who need a hand up until things get better. I prefer private charities and family members to take care of that but I am not completely opposed to a hand up when it is needed. When it becomes multigenerational, that's where I start to get a bit twitchy.
You are referring to women and children that were abandoned, not single whores who have mo' children to get mo' money.
No such thing as a welfare whore, no woman wants to have a child with out a daddy, -----whats the matter with you,
(http://www.ecardica.com/ecards/postcards%5Cfunny%20pictures/head_up_your_ass.jpg)
:whatever:
You are either purposely ignorant or completely oblivious, vesta.
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Sorry to go gravedigging. Wasp recommeded this thread to me based on a Purple Sage thread...
http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,92314.msg1160745/topicseen.html#new (http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,92314.msg1160745/topicseen.html#new)
I never saw this thread. Wow, just wow. I must have been in the South Pacific then when I was banned for using an address that Dipshit Malloy evidently used.
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Well, did she deliberately get pregnant? That would still be her choice but teenagers, even with free birth control, aren't always the most careful people on the planet. She took responsibility for her actions. Brave young woman and much more mature and compassionate than the people at DU.
There's no reason to believe just because other family member(s) get cancer this young man will. There will be an incredible amount of medical advances in his lifetime as well. Even so, better to have a life of quality & love (as this baby boy surely will be) even if it's short, than killed before he even has a chance. Whether the selfish harpies at DU will admit it or not, it IS noble to do what this young woman did, just as noble as a soldier who jumps on a grenade to save his brothers.
No life is without risk and I think when it's your time, it will happen, it's just a matter of how. Sadly, teenagers die everyday for absolutely stupid reasons: texting while driving, doing drugs, driving drunk, paying more attention to friends than the road, disease (including cancer), falling off a roof, etc. This young woman decided to love a baby she would only share a little time with before she died. She's one of those people that restores your faith in humanity.
Cindie
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Response to JI7 (Original post)
Wed Dec 28, 2011, 09:42 PM
pitohui
8. well i agree it's not a tragedy but rather a darwin award
View profile
very hard for me to have any sympathy for anyone of any age who makes the choice to get pregnant after a cancer diagnosis
if you want to kill yourself, do it honestly, instead of getting a child involved who will have the guilt hanging over its head lifelong
there is nothing on her side to agree with, it sounds like she was severely mentally ill, chemotherapy does affect the brain and sometimes the ability to make good decisions
this is assuming what you and the story say is true -- that we are not talking about someone already pregnant who found out she had cancer and decided to sacrifice her life for the child, we're talking about someone who had the cancer FIRST and THEN got pregnant, effectively creating the perfect excuse for not being able to continue w. chemo
in that case she wanted to die and i do not celebrate a 17 year old choosing death and using a baby as an excuse for suicide
Darwin Award is for people who do stupid things.