The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Tucker on December 08, 2011, 08:41:00 PM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2445973#2449304
Scuba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec-08-11 06:11 AM
Original message
Wisconsin: Scott Walker signs "death penalty for burglars" bill
http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/walker-to-si...
..snip..
Madison - Homeowners who shoot intruders will have new legal protections, under a bill signed Wednesday by Gov. Scott Walker.
Under the intruders bill, courts in most criminal and civil matters would presume that people using deadly force had acted reasonably against anyone unlawfully inside their residence, business or vehicle, whether the trespasser was armed or not.
The proposal is sometimes known as the "castle doctrine," a reference to the saying that one's home is one's castle. The bill passed the Senate and Assembly on bipartisan votes last month.
A group within the State Bar of Wisconsin representing more than 600 criminal defense lawyers, prosecutors, judges and academics opposed the castle doctrine bill because "malevolent, reckless, or paranoid people who shoot trick-or-treaters or repairmen on their porch will be presumed to be acting in self-defense." Members of that group say they can't come up with a single case where a homeowner was charged with a crime for defending himself or herself against an intruder.
..end..
Jobs for coroners, I guess.
Here's a suggestion. Don't break into someones house. Problem solved.
kickysnana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec-08-11 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Makes setting up a murder so much easier.n/t
Clueless.
kctim (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec-08-11 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
5. The poor poor people of Wis.
We have a castle law here and "trick-or-treaters or repairmen" are shot and killed every day. It's crazy and I live in a constant state of fear.
It's not a "death penalty for burglars," it's a choice criminals must now at least give a little bit of thought.
Dirty freeper troll.
Dragonbreathp9d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec-08-11 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
7. Sorry- but if someone breaks into my house- I don't know their intent- they will get shot
I support this as it is truly one of the only self protection gun laws. Don't break into my home, I won't even think twice. I might hate myself later on- but regardless- I'd rather be wrong in shooting than wrong in not
The lovelorn has a nasty streak. It musta been the women who deserted him that made him that way.
gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec-08-11 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. Nothing in my house, including me, is worth someone else's life
But I realize I'm an extreme example, and in a society as steeped in violence and as awash in weapons as ours is, I'm definitely going against the tide of popular thought. I'm used to picking up the pieces by this point in my life.
He's a ****ing idiot.
michreject Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec-08-11 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
53. If someone is in my house uninvited
I'm not going to engage in a fact finding mission. I'm going to believe that he is there to do my family great bodily harm, up to including murder, and will act accordingly.
In other words, I will shoot upon first sight.
Me too.
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kickysnana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec-08-11 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Makes setting up a murder so much easier.n/t
Why are you so flipping stupid? It's not like other states have had this law in place for years. ::)
Do you think homeowner's bait the intruders and then kill them? Fool.
Anyway, I am very proud of my home state. They are growing up so quickly with Scott Walker in charge.
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ctim (1000+ posts) Thu Dec-08-11 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
5. The poor poor people of Wis.
We have a castle law here and "trick-or-treaters or repairmen" are shot and killed every day. It's crazy and I live in a constant state of fear.
It's not a "death penalty for burglars," it's a choice criminals must now at least give a little bit of thought.
You have trick-or-treaters every day? :lmao:
I live so far out in the boonies, the BEST time I can hope for LEO's showing up is 10 minutes. I don't dial 9-1-1 first, I dial 9mm. 9-1-1 is for the cleanup.
Besides, if you're so damned stupid as to ignore the No Trespassing signs posted everywhere, then you deserve what you will find here.
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You have trick-or-treaters every day? :lmao:
He's mocking the "pearl-clutchers."
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Ward Bird certainly could have used that law a few years back. Now as it stands he's a convicted felon simply for "brandishing a weapon" on his own property against a person who trespassed on his property and who refused to leave when told to do so.
Fortunately the GOP is in charge in the legislature and not even Governor Do-Nothing Lynch's veto stood up. We can not only defend ourselves in our homes and on our property now, but ANYWHERE we feel threatened in any place we have "a right to be" with no duty to retreat.
And despite the warnings of the cops/unions, no, we have not had Wild West shootouts on our streets. Quite the opposite, in fact.
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Great! That should encourage the street thugs to stay with their own kind in metro Milwaukee, instead of preying on the productive citizens.
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My guess is that these trial lawyers, are upset that they will not be able to take the homes and life savings of good, hard-working, law-abiding citizens; by defending them in court for firing upon hardened criminals actively invading homes with people.
I don't even understand how these people can have a conscience.
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Ward Bird certainly could have used that law a few years back. Now as it stands he's a convicted felon simply for "brandishing a weapon" on his own property against a person who trespassed on his property and who refused to leave when told to do so.
Fortunately the GOP is in charge in the legislature and not even Governor Do-Nothing Lynch's veto stood up. We can not only defend ourselves in our homes and on our property now, but ANYWHERE we feel threatened in any place we have "a right to be" with no duty to retreat.
And despite the warnings of the cops/unions, no, we have not had Wild West shootouts on our streets. Quite the opposite, in fact.
I am pretty sure here in NY that unless you can prove imminent danger to life your only legal recourse is to flee from an interloper. :banghead:
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The bill passed the Senate and Assembly on bipartisan votes last month.
This stick in your craw(s), DUmmies? :lmao:
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I am pretty sure here in NY that unless you can prove imminent danger to life your only legal recourse is to flee from an interloper. :banghead:
Unless you're in your own residence, Carl. Then one may "shoot to stop." "Stopping" can be interpreted as "rendering the invader a corpse," IIRC. Every LEO I've talked to in NY about this has said this, and they've recommended the above definition.
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kickysnana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Thu Dec-08-11 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Makes setting up a murder so much easier.n/t
Nah, not true. But it will probably go a long way towards reducing your voter base.
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Unless you're in your own residence, Carl. Then one may "shoot to stop." "Stopping" can be interpreted as "rendering the invader a corpse," IIRC. Every LEO I've talked to in NY about this has said this, and they've recommended the above definition.
Keep in mind that dead men can't offer testimony.
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Unless you're in your own residence, Carl. Then one may "shoot to stop." "Stopping" can be interpreted as "rendering the invader a corpse," IIRC. Every LEO I've talked to in NY about this has said this, and they've recommended the above definition.
Perhaps but it still relies on a lot of interpretation.
Please correct me if I am wrong but if a person was to break in to my house tonight I still would have to prove I identified them as an intruder (being here alone is not enough) which means lights on and confronting them.
Then if there was any indication they were attempting to flee I could do nothing to prevent it and finally would have to prove a desire to do me physical harm.
In other words if it turned out they had no weapon or indication they were going to use it such as having a knife still in pocket when a LEO arrived I could still be charged with manslaughter.
Stupid state.
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When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
I am truly liking the cut of the fellow Wlaker's jib.
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I look at it this way--if someone is running around in my house at 2 am and everyone else is in bed, I'm pretty ****ing sure it ain't the Avon lady.
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Florida has had this doctrine for years and it even extends to ones car and to any public place that the person who is carrying and has a valid carrier permit visits. If I am in a Wendy's and some one is robbing it and I feel that the robber represents a threat to my life or the life of someone else I can shoot him.
On a side note, the innocent people in Florida who are being killed are murdered by criminals not by law bidding citizens making a mistake.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Thu Dec-08-11 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. Nothing in my house, including me, is worth someone else's lifetwo shits.
Good for Wisconsin. :cheersmate:
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The DUmmies cheer for the lives of thugs,pedophiles ,rapist and thieves but will ill a child in a heartbeat when they find out that night at the frat house or the bar turned into something unwanted. I see this as making things equal in the eyes of the law,you go into a home of a good decent person looking to score stuff because you feel entitled to it then I feel free to show you the error of your ways with my M1911.
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You have trick-or-treaters every day? :lmao:
I live so far out in the boonies, the BEST time I can hope for LEO's showing up is 10 minutes. I don't dial 9-1-1 first, I dial 9mm. 9-1-1 is for the cleanup.
Besides, if you're so damned stupid as to ignore the No Trespassing signs posted everywhere, then you deserve what you will find here.
Well now I know that if I ever come upon your place sometime to hold up a sign "I am Revolution from CC" while I stand outside your personal signs, and hope I don't hear a caulking ksouknd. *wide eyed*
Let's go, Walker!! *clap clap- clap clap clap*
The leftists in this state are losing their minds.
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I look at it this way--if someone is running around in my house at 2 am and everyone else is in bed, I'm pretty ****ing sure it ain't the Avon lady.
hack89 (1000+ posts) Thu Dec-08-11 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
50. And you can instantly tell if a intruder has peaceful intentions?
just one look is all it takes to determine he poses no threat to your physical safety? Super powers like that must be cool.
But how do you KNOW, Sparky????
:rotf: :lmao: :rotf:
What a dolt.
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You know what the DUmmies real problem is with this don't you? They foresee a drastic decrese in live democrat voters and an increase in dead ones. And with most states pushing to clean up the voting rolls and demanding picture ID's....things aren't looking good for future democrat candidates.
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You know what the DUmmies real problem is with this don't you? They foresee a drastic decrese in live democrat voters and an increase in dead ones. And with most states pushing to clean up the voting rolls and demanding picture ID's....things aren't looking good for future democrat candidates.
That's why they're trying to plant an idea that on line voting should be an option.
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gratuitous (1000+ posts)
8. Nothing in my house, including me, is worth someone else's life
Good to know. Nice that you posted this on the net for all to see.
Anyone want to search his posting history and look for references about where he lives?
Maybe he's one of the DUmmies who actually posted his address at one point?
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Quote
gratuitous (1000+ posts)
8. Nothing in my house, including me, is worth someone else's life.
Gees, no parents, children or friends spending the night????
What is worth someone Else's life, Your Country, Your Flag, those you love????
This I have heard before by the idealists that for some reason stand outside a prison and protest the execution of a mass murder. Few of the protesters have had to bury children kidnapped and tortured by these animals, few ever felt rage against a monster that destroyed others lives for no reason that because they could for their own benefit.
As some monster has never invaded my home, I will feel pity for them and pray for their souls. Good thinking, way to go to enable others to wreck terror and death on the innocents.
Why does the poster believe that he himself is equal to a monster and the life of a monster is as justified as his???
When do we put the value of a life so high that the monsters lives are as sacrid as a new Born's?????
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You have trick-or-treaters every day? :lmao:
I live so far out in the boonies, the BEST time I can hope for LEO's showing up is 10 minutes. I don't dial 9-1-1 first, I dial 9mm. 9-1-1 is for the cleanup.
Besides, if you're so damned stupid as to ignore the No Trespassing signs posted everywhere, then you deserve what you will find here.
I live in the outer 'burbs of a regional city.
There's a daylight-hours police station 10 minutes away.
If I were to ring in a break'n'enter , disturbance , domestic etc call - the BEST I could hope for it 20 minutes.
Ring them up and tell them I just shot a home invader and they'll be there to lock me up faster than you can spit.
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Well now I know that if I ever come upon your place sometime to hold up a sign "I am Revolution from CC" while I stand outside your personal signs, and hope I don't hear a caulking ksouknd. *wide eyed*
Let's go, Walker!! *clap clap- clap clap clap*
The leftists in this state are losing their minds.
You have 200 yards of driveway to get to my door. Plenty of time for me to identify you as friend or foe. :-)
If you bring beer, you won't need the sign! :cheersmate:
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I live in the outer 'burbs of a regional city.
There's a daylight-hours police station 10 minutes away.
If I were to ring in a break'n'enter , disturbance , domestic etc call - the BEST I could hope for it 20 minutes.
Ring them up and tell them I just shot a home invader and they'll be there to lock me up faster than you can spit.
Do you have a ban on ALL firearms in Australia, or just handguns?
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I think the libs fear the castle doctrine because they know that it reduces the number of democrats available to vote once they get out of prison.
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Do you have a ban on ALL firearms in Australia, or just handguns?
Neither are actually outright *banned*.
You can get a licence for non-autoloading rifles easily enough - I have said license and a couple of rifles that I'm competent with.
You can get a licence for a handgun with a lot more expense, time (you've gotta attend regular competition shoots) and so on. I don't have this license for a variety of reasons - the biggest one is that you aren't allowed to carry , ever , for any reason.
Both of which are moot points.
We have what is known as a "Duty to retreat" - and self defence is likely to land you in the slammer. If you get caught
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"Duty to retreat??" Pardon me, sir, but I've never heard of such a stupid f*cking idea in my life. Well, maybe I have, but they escape me at the moment. :thatsright:
You have 200 yards of driveway to get to my door. Plenty of time for me to identify you as friend or foe. :-)
If you bring beer, you won't need the sign! :cheersmate:
You've seen my pic on the forum, have you not? (Way better looking than any male DUmmie. :))
Just in case, what's your favorite brand? :-) O-)
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Well now I know that if I ever come upon your place sometime to hold up a sign "I am Revolution from CC" while I stand outside your personal signs, and hope I don't hear a caulking ksouknd. *wide eyed*
Let's go, Walker!! *clap clap- clap clap clap*
The leftists in this state are losing their minds.
They sure are upset there. Only being back for a few days and you just feel it. It makes me happy. :)
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"Duty to retreat??" Pardon me, sir, but I've never heard of such a stupid f*cking idea in my life. Well, maybe I have, but they escape me at the moment. :thatsright:
You've seen my pic on the forum, have you not? (Way better looking than any male DUmmie. :))
Just in case, what's your favorite brand? :-) O-)
Surprise me.
Anything but PBR!
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Personally I don't give **** what the law is. I have two signs on the front and back door. Never mind the dog BEWARE OF THE OWNER and If your found here at night you will be found here in the morning. I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Personally I don't give **** what the law is. I have two signs on the front and back door. Never mind the dog BEWARE OF THE OWNER and If your found here at night you will be found here in the morning. I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
:lol:
What you said.
I saw one in a convenience store window that said: "This store protected by .357 three nights a week. You guess which nights." It was in a rougher part of this particular town, and one of the clerks DID open carry a .38 on his belt.
I asked him if he was expecting trouble, or preventing it. He said, "Yes." :lmao:
Never heard of an holdups there, although the one down the street got hit 1-2 a month.
I like: "It's better to have a gun and not need it, than to need a gun and not have it."
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Here is a part of NYs convoluted law.
Sec. 35.15 Justification; use of physical force in defense of a person.
1. A person may, subject to the provisions of subdivision two, use physical force upon another person when and to the extent he reasonably believes such to be necessary to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by such other person, unless:
(a) The latter`s conduct was provoked by the actor himself with intent to cause physical injury to another person; or
(b) The actor was the initial aggressor; except that in such case his use of physical force is nevertheless justifiable if he has withdrawn from the encounter and effectively communicated such withdrawal to such other person but the latter persists in continuing the incident by the use or threatened imminent use of unlawful physical force; or
(c) The physical force involved is the product of a combat
by agreement not specifically authorized by law.
2. A person may not use deadly physical force upon another person under circumstances specified in subdivision one unless:
(a) He reasonably believes that such other person is using or about to use deadly physical force. Even in such case, however, the actor may not use deadly physical force if he knows that he can with complete safety as to himself and others avoid the necessity of so doing by retreating; except that he is under no duty to retreat if he is:
(i) in his dwelling and not the initial aggressor; or In other words I have to give them a chance to escape.
(ii) a police officer or peace officer or a person assisting a police officer or a peace officer at the latter`s direction, acting pursuant to section 35.30; or
(b) He reasonably believes that such other person is committing or attempting to commit a kidnapping, forcible rape, forcible sodomy or robbery; or
(c) He reasonably believes that such other person is committing or attempting to commit a burglary, and the circumstances are such that the use of deadly physical force is authorized by subdivision three of section 35.20.
Sec. 35.20 Justification; use of physical force in defense of premises and in defense of a person in the course of burglary.
1. Any person may use physical force upon another person when he reasonably believes such to be necessary to prevent or terminate what he reasonably believes to be the commission or attempted commission by such other person of a crime involving damage to premises. He may use any degree of physical force, other than deadly physical force, which he reasonably believes to be necessary for such purpose, and he may use deadly physical force if he reasonably believes such to be necessary to prevent or terminate the commission or attempted commission of arson.
2. A person in possession or control of any premises, or a person licensed or privileged to be thereon or therein, may use physical force upon another person when he reasonably believes such to be necessary to prevent or terminate what he reasonably believes to be the commission or attempted commission by such other person of a criminal trespass upon such premises. He may use any degree of physical force, other than deadly physical force, which he reasonably believes to be necessary for such purpose, and he may use deadly physical force in order to prevent or terminate the commission or attempted commission of arson, as prescribed in subdivision one, or in the course of a burglary or attempted burglary, as prescribed in subdivision three.
3. A person in possession or control of, or licensed or privileged to be in, a dwelling or an occupied building, who reasonably believes that another person is committing or attempting to commit a burglary of such dwelling or building, may use deadly physical force upon such other person when he reasonably believes such to be necessary to prevent or terminate the commission or attempted commission of such burglary.
4. As used in this section, the following terms have the following meanings:
(a) The terms "premises," "building" and "dwelling" have the
meanings prescribed in section 140.00;
(b) Persons "licensed or privileged" to be in buildings or upon other premises include, but are not limited to, police officers or peace officers acting in the performance of their duties.
This basically says you have to fully identify whoever is in your home,their presence alone is not satisfactory
Sec. 35.25 Justification; use of physical force to prevent or terminate larceny or criminal mischief. A person may use physical force, other than deadly physical force, upon another person when and to the extent that he reasonably believes such to be necessary to prevent or terminate what he reasonably believes to be the commission or attempted
commission by such other person of larceny or of criminal mischief with respect to property other than premises.
Which pretty much means any action you take can be prosecutable.
Now if I wake up to someone in my house at 2:00 AM there is a pretty good chance that person will go out in a bag.
There is also a very likely chance I will get taken out in handcuffs.
What an effed up state.
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The old guy that lived across the street from my parents had a sign in his screen door that said "This house protected by Smith and Wesson .357". He told dad that the insurance company made him take it down.
Personally I think the firearm companies ought to have a home security company by the same name. Imagine it: "This house protected by Smith and Wesson Security company." Insurance companies couldn't say shit then. :-)
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The old guy that lived across the street from my parents had a sign in his screen door that said "This house protected by Smith and Wesson .357". He told dad that the insurance company made him take it down.
Personally I think the firearm companies ought to have a home security company by the same name. Imagine it: "This house protected by Smith and Wesson Security company." Insurance companies couldn't say shit then. :-)
While humorous, I'm of the view that signs like that are just advertising for burglars to rob your home when you're gone. As they know that you have prime items to steal, firearms.
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We have what is known as a "Duty to retreat" - and self defence is likely to land you in the slammer. If you get caught
Damn, and here I was getting ready to move down there.
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Damn, and here I was getting ready to move down there.
The pay is phenomenal for our line of work, and our skill sets fast track us with the immigration process. I seriously looked into it a few years ago.
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The pay is phenomenal for our line of work, and our skill sets fast track us with the immigration process. I seriously looked into it a few years ago.
Define, "phenomenal." Like mid six-figure phenomenal?
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Define, "phenomenal." Like mid six-figure phenomenal?
Just hazarding a guess at your specific trade here - but for most experienced and qualified electrical trades you can get FIFO mine work based out of most major cities starting at at least 100K/pa. Good superannuation, 5 weeks annual leave and in many cases an even-time roster.
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While humorous, I'm of the view that signs like that are just advertising for burglars to rob your home when you're gone. As they know that you have prime items to steal, firearms.
We have an NRA sign in the window and it is common knowledge that we have guns in the house and do carry. The houses next to us and we have never been broken into. The rest of the area is another story.
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Define, "phenomenal." Like mid six-figure phenomenal?
When I looked into it, there was a company offering $180-270k, depending on your background. While there are some people who earn the lower range of that, here in the states with our skill sets, their compensation was without insane overtime. That was a few years ago though, when Australia was desperate for certain skilled trades and engineering talent, I'm not sure how it is now. I remember just power plant control room operators, which we're both likely qualified for or were, was $140-180k, on a less than 40 hour work week.
We have quite a few people, on the non-nuclear side clear $200k, and one individual actually cleared $250k last year... but those were all wages earned by working 24/7 all year... It's not the same over there.
Granted, the cost of living over there is significantly higher, but their dollar does bounce around parity with ours now.
We've had a number of people also travel on work-contracts in the middle east, making even more, albeit... they usually had to work long hours and were stuck in foreigner housing projects.
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We've had a number of people also travel on work-contracts in the middle east, making even more, albeit... they usually had to work long hours and were stuck in foreigner housing projects.
Long hours in the housing project isn't that bad a deal if I'm making $300K/year and shipping most of that home. Hell, I could retire in five years at that rate.
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Long hours in the housing project isn't that bad a deal if I'm making $300K/year and shipping most of that home. Hell, I could retire in five years at that rate.
For some apparent reason, most of the Middle East countries would limit you to one to three year contracts, than order you to leave their country. A few years ago we hired a man from India, who spent over a decade working in the Middle East, but he was having to jump countries on a regular basis, and finally ran out. He had some fascinating stories though about the experience.
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Long hours in the housing project isn't that bad a deal if I'm making $300K/year and shipping most of that home. Hell, I could retire in five years at that rate.
Considering that that income is not taxable as well. When we were on the other side of the Suez we paid no federal income tax on whatever we made while we were out there.