The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Tess Anderson on November 28, 2011, 12:39:06 PM
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::)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2385527
*We* (Tav and his fellow moonbats, that is) can't make it, period;
Taverner (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-26-11 10:32 PM
Original message
We Have to go Socialist
Just sayin'
We cannot make it as individuals
We can, however, make it as a team
As a group
As in "all of us"
Don't let those of us who don't like that prevent it from happening...
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We went socialist. Look where it got us, numbnuts.
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The primitive define socialism as...
Taverner
96. Worker control of the means of production
.... but they really don't want to have to work to receive benefits. Besides, if they got the economy they wanted, the "workers" in industires who made the most would become the new 1%. When they were taken down it would be the next 1% they would go after. It's a self-destructing economy.
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There is always North Korea, Taverner. The population starves together as one.
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Yo idiot! THERE IS NO I IN TEAM! :bird:
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Taverner (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-26-11 10:32 PM
Original message
We Have to go Socialist
Just sayin'
We cannot make it as individuals
We can, however, make it as a team
As a group
As in "all of us"
Don't let those of us who don't like that prevent it from happening...
Refresh | +139 Recommendations
Big surprise! ::)
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Yo idiot! THERE IS NO I IN TEAM! :bird:
However, there is an "M" and an "E." Just sayin'.
:-)
Stossel has been putting on some brilliant stuff lately about the historical failure of communal ownership in societies like the Pilgrims.
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MFrohike (185 posts) Mon Nov-28-11 03:38 AM
Response to Reply #89
146. Which is done how?
Through constant vigilance on the part of the populace. It's not that hard to change a few parts of a system to throw it out of balance.
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TBF (1000+ posts) Mon Nov-28-11 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #146
150. Your "constant vigilanace of capital" has resulted in the top 1% of the country
controlling 40% of the wealth. No thanks, I'll stick with my plan to do whatever I can to transition this society to socialism as quickly as possible.
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And freedom loving Americans will stop you.
MFrohike (185 posts) Mon Nov-28-11 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #150
155. Not so much, no
All social revolutions fail. All they ever do is change the names of the players at the top and their titles. The reasons for the social revolution continue to grind as though nothing had ever happened. Witness Mexico, Russia, China, Vietnam, and the rest. A tiny elite hoarding most of the benefits while that majority get the shaft. When this happens over and over and over, it's time to realize that all systems are prone to abuse and that only a vigilant populace can stop it.
You can change the system all you like, but unless you have people paying attention, and I should say pressuring legislatures, similar results will occur. There will be a concentration of power at the top, which leads to outsized benefits for those at the top.
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TBF (1000+ posts) Mon Nov-28-11 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #155
156. You might call it a failure when a dictatorship of the proletariat takes over -
but the USSR had great productivity and decent conditions for its citizens. I think we can learn from that society, along with many in South America and also the current Scandinavian countries.
As long as "1% of the world population own 40 % of the global assets. The richest 2% of the world population own more than 51% of the global assets, the richest 10% own 85% of the global assets" (source - Wiki under income inequality) you are going to have folks trying to create a better, more equitable system. You may not like that, but the rest of us expect you to share.
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MFrohike (185 posts) Mon Nov-28-11 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #156
159. Seriously?
Oh, this is rich. I'm going to use some bullet points for this one.
1. Productivity is not a subject on which America needs help. If anything, we're overproductive.
2. Decent conditions? Well, in comparison with Neanderthals, that might be true on a material level. However, when you add in the security organs and the other means of terrorizing the population, I'm going to think the Neanderthals had it better.
3. There is nothing to learn from Hugo. Hugo gets to play Che Guevara, Jr. because he has a lot of oil. If he's president of a country with no oil, he'd have been shooting his opponents long ago. Instead he gets to buy them off.
Fidel is a great hero to people for some reason I don't get. The guy prostituted his country to the USSR for cash. He sent his soldiers to be used as mercenaries in Africa and got paid for it.
There are other leaders worth examining. Recently, Lula and Morales have been worth giving a listen, even when they seem to be wrong.
4. "You may not like that, but the rest of us expect you to share."--This one is rich. You really don't get what I'm talking about at all, do you?
Let me make this really explicit because I've apparently been very cryptic until now. Unless people are watching their leaders, those leaders will find ways to benefit those at the top at the expense of the rest. Go read (or reread) Animal Farm. Orwell laid out a brilliant critique not just of totalitarian communist governments, but of all governments. The pigs in that story use misdirection and outright lies in order to confuse the other animals for their own benefit. That is the natural evolution of ALL human systems. Everything breaks down eventually. The only remedies are vigilance and pressure. Anything else is the modern-day equivalent of animal sacrifice to propitiate the gods.
Someone is not long for the DUmp.
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Yo idiot! THERE IS NO I IN TEAM! :bird:
There is no 'we' either.
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chaska (1000+ posts) Mon Nov-28-11 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
162. Whenever presented with only two choices....
always look for a third, fourth, fifth, etc.
All societies are a mix of individualistic and egalitarian values/motives (even ours - I know, hard to believe at this late date). We have swung too far to the individualistic side of the pendulum. We're long overdue for a return to equality and communal values. The answer to our problem isn't any true version of Socialism, but until we can think of a better way to describe what we want, that term will probably be used a lot.
And that's okay. Never let your enemy scare you off from your own name. But don't let him chase you into a definition of you that doesn't fit either. Don't let him make you embrace the tarbaby. He'll be laughing his ass off at you, and you will deserve it. Define yourself. Always.
Wonder if any DUmbasses will call him a racist?
Oh wait,that is only if you are a Republican.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4945237
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Taverner (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-26-11 10:32 PM
Original message
We Have to go Socialist
Just sayin'
We cannot make it as individuals
So much for the rugged individualism attitude that built this Nation...
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So much for the rugged individualism attitude that built this Nation...
That went away when we let in the huddled masses yearning for freebies.
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chaska (1000+ posts) Mon Nov-28-11 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
162. Whenever presented with only two choices....
always look for a third, fourth, fifth, etc.
All societies are a mix of individualistic and egalitarian values/motives (even ours - I know, hard to believe at this late date). We have swung too far to the individualistic side of the pendulum. We're long overdue for a return to equality and communal values. The answer to our problem isn't any true version of Socialism, but until we can think of a better way to describe what we want, that term will probably be used a lot.
And that's okay. Never let your enemy scare you off from your own name. But don't let him chase you into a definition of you that doesn't fit either. Don't let him make you embrace the tarbaby. He'll be laughing his ass off at you, and you will deserve it. Define yourself. Always.
What do you mean RETURN? We have never been the country that you DUmmies seem to think we were. Grow the hell up and take care of yourself.
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However, there is an "M" and an "E." Just sayin'.
:-)
Stossel has been putting on some brilliant stuff lately about the historical failure of communal ownership in societies like the Pilgrims.
H5 ...That one used to really tick off some of my coaches in youth sports.
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Just about done reading the Fountainhead by Ayn Rand. Reading it reminded me that leftest DUmmies have always been with us. Every new generation of these clowns think they have unique thoughts and ideas but it is always the same old tired crap that was said and tried before with crappy results. I swear there were parts of it that sounded like direct quotes from the OWS idiots.
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Yet another DUmmie who thinks he can live at the expense of another.
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Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
Winston Churchill
That is all.
P.S. I defy any PUnk from the DUmp to prove that great man's statement wrong.
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Just about done reading the Fountainhead by Ayn Rand. Reading it reminded me that leftest DUmmies have always been with us. Every new generation of these clowns think they have unique thoughts and ideas but it is always the same old tired crap that was said and tried before with crappy results. I swear there were parts of it that sounded like direct quotes from the OWS idiots.
We the Living is an even better one in this case.
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Taverner (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-26-11 10:32 PM
Original message
We Have to go Socialist
Well, there is an obstacle in that Constitution thingy, unless the Kenyan is able to get reelected and stack the Supreme Court with more leftists.
Aside from that, socialism seems to be working out great for all those Eurotrash countries that use it.
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Yo idiot! THERE IS NO I IN TEAM! :bird:
But... there is an M and a E
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Faithful One (108 posts) Tue Nov-29-11 05:35 AM
Response to Original message
172. nope.
(http://randomoverload.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/2a4b551clin-tonight.jpg)
:lmao:
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"We Have to go Socialist" .... so we can find out it still doesn't work.
Just paraphrasing Nancy P..
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I'm reading that communist claptrap over there.
TBF says:
You may not like that, but the rest of us expect you to share.
I don't give a shit what you expect. What I expect is, is that you don't take my stuff. Try it and you'll see a gun in your face. Commies, I hate 'em.
Mosaic (826 posts) Sun Nov-27-11 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #84
140. Then we need affirmative action for entreprenuers and small business
Edited on Sun Nov-27-11 11:18 PM by Mosaic
There can be no white male privilege in our egalitarian society. We must all be equal, democratic, and mostly socialist. It's not a dirty word. We've cleaned up the word liberal, most tv pundits use it respectfully again. We can de-demonize the word socialism. Laurence O'Donnell has already started, claiming he is a proud socialist and Newsweek proclaimed "We are All Socialists Now" on a recent magazine cover. Embrace it!
That was from early 2009, and people started screaming into the night, heading for the hills. The Tea Party cropped up. Newsweek was sold for $1. Oh, and nobody watches O'Donnell.
Regarding that pic above:
txlibdem (1000+ posts) Tue Nov-29-11 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #172
177. Is that a statue of Adam Smith??? That would make the caption make sense.
The only ideology Lenin had was to keep Lenin in power. He was a better Hitler than Hitler. The same goes for Stalin. Perhaps double.
The little girl in the picture is angry because we killed equality in her country. We killed a free education regardless of your social standing. We killed advances in technology made by the USSR that took us over a decade to catch up to (Radial Keratotomy becomes laser eye surgery). We killed her hope of growing up in a nation that did not judge by the color of your skin.
In short, she's pissed off about living in a Capitalist Society.
Which killed the thread. I don't like txlibdem very much.
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txlibdem (1000+ posts) Tue Nov-29-11 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #172
177. Is that a statue of Adam Smith??? That would make the caption make sense.
Typed while sitting in front of a computer purchased by capitalism, in a reasonably comfortable and well lit dwelling purchased and maintained by capitalism, the freedom to bitch about your government and it's financial underpinnings while begging for the chains that inevitably come with collectivism.
The purest and truest form of DUmbass if there ever were one.
The only ideology Lenin had was to keep Lenin in power. He was a better Hitler than Hitler. The same goes for Stalin. Perhaps double.
Which pretty much renders the rest of your post moot, does it not?
The little girl in the picture is angry because we killed equality in her country.
Equality? What equality? The equality of misery? Yeah, everyone was equal in the old Soviet Union - some were just more equal than others. Don't believe me? Feel free to look up how the Russians treated everyone that wasn't white and spoke Russian; start with the indigenous tribes of Siberia and work your way through the Polish to the Cubans.
"Equal" my ass.
We killed a free education regardless of your social standing.
As long as you were a member of "the party", comrade. Otherwise, it was back to your plow or whatever else the state decided you should do. And if you should complain, well, they had some special places to send you (all expenses paid) to get your mind right.
(http://www.ushanka.us/blog/images/magadan1.jpg)
(http://www.volgagermans.net/norka/images/workers3a.jpg)
(http://itmakessenseblog.com/files/2011/04/Gulag-4-300x175.jpg)
We killed advances in technology made by the USSR that took us over a decade to catch up to (Radial Keratotomy becomes laser eye surgery).
:lmao:
Are you friggin' kidding me? Advances in technology? Like what? RBMK reactors?
:lmao:
One commie gets something right and you celebrate? Gee, I wonder if there were people outside of the great and "equal" white Russians in "the party" that could have benefited from that procedure had it not been deemed by the benevolent commies that it needed to be locked away in the Soviet Union for 18 friggin' years.
Some being more equal than others.....
You want to impress me? Show me a vodka snorting atheist hyena that did something on the level of Robert Jarvik.
The commies were consistently good at one thing - rocketry. That was pretty much it.
We killed her hope of growing up in a nation that did not judge by the color of your skin.
So long as you were white and Russian and belonged to "the party".
In short, she's pissed off about living in a Capitalist Society.
Oh, I doubt that. But if she is, at least she will be free to prosper from the fruits of her labor, no matter what it might be.
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The commies were consistently good at one thing - rocketry. That was pretty much it.
They were not even very good at that. Really the only thing they were any good at was stealing other people's tech.
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They were not even very good at that. Really the only thing they were any good at was stealing other people's tech.
We didn't get ALL the German rocket scientists, after all. The Soviets also plundered all of Germany that was under their control for literally anything of technical interest after Berlin fell, and shipped damned near every working machine and technological project in their entire zone back to the Motherland. That large-scale plundering, combined of course with the brilliant economic model of Marxism-Leninism, was why East Germany remained a total backwater through the end of the Cold War.
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We didn't get ALL the German rocket scientists, after all. The Soviets also plundered all of Germany that was under their control for literally anything of technical interest after Berlin fell, and shipped damned near every working machine and technological project in their entire zone back to the Motherland. That large-scale plundering, combined of course with the brilliant economic model of Marxism-Leninism, was why East Germany remained a total backwater through the end of the Cold War.
...and damn near broke west Germany when they were united.
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...and damn near broke west Germany when they were united.
Yeah...but the Federal Republic wanted them, and their land, back bad enough to bite the bullet and tough it out. Now, twenty years later, they have achieved what they had their eye on then: the country is reunited, fully knit back together, and they're the dominant Central European power beyond any question.
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Yeah...but the Federal Republic wanted them, and their land, back bad enough to bite the bullet and tough it out. Now, twenty years later, they have achieved what they had their eye on then: the country is reunited, fully knit back together, and they're the dominant Central European power beyond any question.
So, when do they start the next war? ....and I hope they kill Muslims this time.
....and this time, we let them keep they get stuck with France.