The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Vagabond on November 26, 2011, 05:03:27 PM
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Blue Iris stays away from the shrubbery (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2382618#2382903)
BlueIris (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-26-11 10:15 AM
Original message
Inspired by CreekDog's thread, how many of you have now reached the point at which you will now
go out of your way to avoid interacting with or even being in close proximity to a police officer?
I have, since approximately the year 2002, gone out of my way, sometimes literally, to avoid even being on the same city block as a cop. If a police officer's car gets anywhere near mine, I will actually switch lanes, and sometimes take an entirely different route to my destination. This has become habitual for me. Same if I see them on the street--I do what I can to move away, including going into stores I wasn't planning on going into, just to be as far away from them as possible.
For the record, I am a good law abiding citizen who has never been arrested. But I can now see most police officers to be not just unstable, but dangerous people who have near absolute authority to do what they please without consequences. Not only do I no longer rely on them to be able to protect us from crimes, I think they are little better than government sponsored enforcers. And it frightens me that our society has devolved to the point where the current standards for police conduct are considered acceptable.
Blue Iris reminds me of a friend who told me a story of coming into ownership of a house in a bad neighborhood. His first act was to install flood lights all over the property. For the first few weeks he would randomly turn on the exterior lights which would clearly illuminate the street. Every time he did, there were people out in the street who would scurry away from the light just like a cockroach.
CreekDog (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-26-11 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
56. I'm concerned that many police can't handle medically compromised people properly
or situations where the person they are dealing with is disabled.
whether it's the professor in Massachusettes with one leg and the field sobriety test (really happened).
the San Mateo man tased while going through a diabetic reaction.
the apparently hearing impaired man in North Carolina who didn't obey a shouted command and was tased while riding a bike which caused him to crash and die.
asthmatics they spray point blank in the face with pepper spray.
The man in Washington who was disabled and homeless who a friend called a welfare check on and the police came and ended up shooting him.
folks they rough up because they can't run or don't know how to follow a command.
I mean, if someone is having a medical difficulty or has an impairment, the police aren't just arresting them, a lot of times we're hearing they're using deadly force on these people or sometimes just violent force when it's not necessary.
And when you consider that if you see someone staggering with a medical problem and your intent is to *help* that person, if you think the police are going to come and tase them and throw them to the ground and cuff them --why would you call the police in that case?
It's got to cross one's mind when they read these stories.
BS, but we have actual LEO's on CC. I'll let them say something.
coalition_unwilling (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-26-11 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #4
16. What happened at UC-Davis is not an anomaly or aberration, but
an iconic representation of what has been happening all across the length and breadth of America, from Tulsa to Oakland, from New York City to Seattle.
In short, the cops all across tbe land have been using excessive force and brutalizing Americans who are exercising their first amendment rights.
And Obama and the leadership of the Democratic Party has remained entirely silent.
Seizing a public park for your sole use, destruction of property, blocking of traffic, drug solicitation and usage, rape, assault, and robbery are not constitutional rights.
ThomWV (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-26-11 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
6. I avoid interaction with the police at every opportunity, but I don't scurry from them in public.
Not one time in my entire life has a cop done anything good for me, quite the opposite actually. In the very few times I've tried to make use of their services they have failed me, in fact they continue to fail me annually in one case. On a personal level every one I've ever met was an asshole with some sort of a John Wayne/Clint Eastwood mentality (minus 20 or so IQ points). As far as I'm concerned they are just garbage-men with badges, I wouldn't piss on one if he was on fire.
ThomWV makes a late bid for DOTY.
Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-26-11 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
7. I suspect the replies to your post will be fairly well sorted by class and race..
If you are upper class and Caucasian then you have little to fear from most interactions with police, the further you get from that status the more careful you should be.
Ah, yes, the police are classist and racist meme.
coalition_unwilling (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-26-11 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. I wonder whether the folks at your Occupy encampment share
Edited on Sat Nov-26-11 10:57 AM by coalition_unwilling
your lack of fear or whether they, like many Occupiers across the U.S., have grown suspicious and fearful of the cops.
I know I am far more skeptical about the cops in the wake of Oakland, NY City, UC-Davis.
I'm in Los Angeles. We had three of the LAPD swagger through the camp after last night's General Assembly. The arrogance and contempt rolled off them palpably. (See Fire Walk with Me's account.)
Why shouldn't they hold you in contempt? Take a look at what really went on in Oakland, but it would take honesty on your part.
WingDinger (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-26-11 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
12. Once lived with two other roomies, and the landL wanted to allow a cop to move in.
We all told him sorry, but dont tell.
So the landlord tossed the dopers out and moved the cop in.
NYC_SKP (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-26-11 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
19. I once did that lane changing thing and got pulled over.
I watch my mirrors like a hawk and one night on 680 near Fremont California where there had to be 4 lanes in each direction, I see a CHP coming up on me, so I do the right thing and signal then pull one lane to the right.
The CHP follows suit, so I do the same, then again into the furthest right lane.
Then on go the lights.
He explained that I was pulled over because I couldn't seem to stay in one lane.
**** that shit.
****er.
Yep, it's called acting suspicious.
snappyturtle (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-26-11 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
29. I avoid them like you do. Too many incidences to get into here but if
anyone would bother to review the police harassment etc. during the Rupublican Convention here in the Cities (ask Amy Goodman) then they'd know what we're up against. If it is the actions of only a few cops then it's time to weed them out but I doubt that is the case. I, too, am law abiding and never even had a ticket (40+ years of driving) however.....
Sure, the police were harassing the innocent harmless protestors. The same protestors that were doing everything in their power including planning bomb making to disrupt the republican convention.
nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-26-11 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
32. Alas that behavior will get their attention faster
no seriously..
And most cops are not what you think they are
Nadin, cop psychologist.
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Had a pleasant chat with a sergeant from the local force just today, at the C-store. Treat them with friendliness and respect and you have no reason to expect problems. But, 'the guilty flee when no man pursueth,' I suppose.
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Had a pleasant chat with a sergeant from the local force just today, at the C-store. Treat them with friendliness and respect and you have no reason to expect problems. But, 'the guilty flee when no man pursueth,' I suppose.
It is also quite likely that most DU posters have outstanding warrants for something.......
doc
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1. Got pulled over by a state trooper for no seatbelt. I was in the wrong. I was friendly. He was friendly.
2. Got pulled over for speeding by a county cop. I had my cruise control set. I wasn't speeding. I don't know who he clocked. Regardless, he had a badge and gun so I didn't argue. I was friendly. He was friendly.
3. Got pulled over for running a stop sign by a county cop (different county than in 2). This one was borderline. I will admit that if I did come to a complete stop it was a quick complete stop. I was friendly. He was friendly. Plus he just gave me a warning.
4. Got pulled over by a county cop for no seatbelt (same county as in 3). I was in the wrong. I was friendly. He was friendly.
5. Got pulled over by a state trooper for no seatbelt. I was in the wrong. I was friendly. He was friendly.
Do you DUmmies notice that all of the cops were friendly in my encounters? Granted, cops are human so there are some out there who are assholes, but if every single cop that you encounter is an asshole that is out to get you then maybe you are the problem and not the cops.
I actually did some work for a deputy a while back. He said that 90% of the time when he pulls someone over he walks to their car intending to give a warning. Their attitude is usually what convinces him to give them a ticket.
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1. Got pulled over by a state trooper for no seatbelt. I was in the wrong. I was friendly. He was friendly.
2. Got pulled over for speeding by a county cop. I had my cruise control set. I wasn't speeding. I don't know who he clocked. Regardless, he had a badge and gun so I didn't argue. I was friendly. He was friendly.
3. Got pulled over for running a stop sign by a county cop (different county than in 2). This one was borderline. I will admit that if I did come to a complete stop it was a quick complete stop. I was friendly. He was friendly. Plus he just gave me a warning.
4. Got pulled over by a county cop for no seatbelt (same county as in 3). I was in the wrong. I was friendly. He was friendly.
5. Got pulled over by a state trooper for no seatbelt. I was in the wrong. I was friendly. He was friendly.
Do you DUmmies notice that all of the cops were friendly in my encounters? Granted, cops are human so there are some out there who are assholes, but if every single cop that you encounter is an asshole that is out to get you then maybe you are the problem and not the cops.
I actually did some work for a deputy a while back. He said that 90% of the time when he pulls someone over he walks to their car intending to give a warning. Their attitude is usually what convinces him to give them a ticket.
Perhaps you should wear your seatbelt more often. :tongue: :tongue:
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Perhaps you should wear your seatbelt more often. :tongue: :tongue:
:-) I knew that was coming.
Honestly, I do wear it when I'm on the road. The problem is that with my job a lot of times I'm getting in and out of the vehicle a lot. There are times when I may get in and out 4 or 5 times in less than a quarter of a mile. Plus, the seatbelt hinders my neck movement. This is not really a problem when I'm on the open road, but when I'm in town needing to constantly look left, right, and behind it can be a bit aggravating. Every seatbelt violation has occurred in town at slow speed. I know that doesn't make it right, but at least I admit that I'm in the wrong.
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The best way to avoid a cops attention is to drive the limit and ignore him.
If a car changes lanes, turns down side roads suddenly or acts suspiciously...YES, you will gain a cop's rapt attention. "Why is he trying to get away from me?"
The OP sounds like he has expired plates, and doesn't want a cop to see.
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I don't have a problem with the beat cop. He's just trying to do a very difficult job and go home to his family.
I don't have a great fondness for Captains and Chiefs. These guys are politicians only interested in advancing their position.
49 states now have concealed carry and I can't name one state chief of police assn that backed carry laws. Beat cops are pro CCW but aren't allowed to state their position.
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he OP sounds like he has expired plates, and doesn't want a cop to see.
Most DUmpmonkeys are in possession of illegal substances.
Every interaction with a law enforcement officer is a potential felony arrest.
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:-) I knew that was coming.
Honestly, I do wear it when I'm on the road. The problem is that with my job a lot of times I'm getting in and out of the vehicle a lot. There are times when I may get in and out 4 or 5 times in less than a quarter of a mile. Plus, the seatbelt hinders my neck movement. This is not really a problem when I'm on the open road, but when I'm in town needing to constantly look left, right, and behind it can be a bit aggravating. Every seatbelt violation has occurred in town at slow speed. I know that doesn't make it right, but at least I admit that I'm in the wrong.
I hear ya, Chuck! I never used to wear mine either until I got a job at a photo processing place after the restaurant laid me off. This place was where all the cops, insurance folks and private security would bring their film to get processed. We are talking 1993 here. I saw pics of so many people that got thrown through the windshield and died in relatively minor, damage wise, accidents. The one that changed my mind was this guy, on I-64 around Cross Lanes, that ran into the guardrail trying to avoid another car that was stopped and went thru the windshield. He hit the guardrail with his head. It cut half his head off and sent his brains about 20 yards up the road. His S-10 had really minor damage... for hitting a guardrail at however many mph it was. I asked the cop about this pic that looked to me like a pile of puked up guts sitting in the middle of the shoulder. He told me it was the guys brains.
I started wearing my seatbelt after that. :-)
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If you've ever wondered how people become DUmp democrats, here's an example:
The one that changed my mind was this guy, on I-64 around Cross Lanes, that ran into the guardrail trying to avoid another car that was stopped and went thru the windshield. He hit the guardrail with his head. It cut half his head off and sent his brains about 20 yards up the road. His S-10 had really minor damage... for hitting a guardrail at however many mph it was. I asked the cop about this pic that looked to me like a pile of puked up guts sitting in the middle of the shoulder. He told me it was the guys brains.
As soon as he was released from the hospital, he registered at the DUmp.
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If you've ever wondered how people become DUmp democrats, here's an example:As soon as he was released from the hospital, he registered at the DUmp.
And then he registered as a Democratic voter.
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And then he registered as a Democratic voter.
Twice.
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:-) I knew that was coming.
Honestly, I do wear it when I'm on the road. The problem is that with my job a lot of times I'm getting in and out of the vehicle a lot. There are times when I may get in and out 4 or 5 times in less than a quarter of a mile. Plus, the seatbelt hinders my neck movement. This is not really a problem when I'm on the open road, but when I'm in town needing to constantly look left, right, and behind it can be a bit aggravating. Every seatbelt violation has occurred in town at slow speed. I know that doesn't make it right, but at least I admit that I'm in the wrong.
The only seatbelt ticket I've had was a few months ago. I was helping the Boy Scouts out up town. They were taking down all the US Flags after the fourth of July. The scout master had a flat tire (caused by a city street crew I might add) and called me to come help the scouts take down flags while he got his flat fixed.
I was jumping in and out of the truck twice per block and wasn't putting my seatbelt on between stops. Young rookie city cop wrote me up. I paid the fine but I was truly pissed. I didn't say a thing, just paid up. But I still get pissed when I think about it.
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The only seatbelt ticket I've had was a few months ago. I was helping the Boy Scouts out up town. They were taking down all the US Flags after the fourth of July. The scout master had a flat tire (caused by a city street crew I might add) and called me to come help the scouts take down flags while he got his flat fixed.
I was jumping in and out of the truck twice per block and wasn't putting my seatbelt on between stops. Young rookie city cop wrote me up. I paid the fine but I was truly pissed. I didn't say a thing, just paid up. But I still get pissed when I think about it.
You might find it a bit ironic that municipal policemen (on duty), municipal garbage truck dirvers (one-man trucks), and mail delivery people are exempt from most states seat belt laws.........for the exact same reason that you received a ticket.
doc
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The only seatbelt ticket I've had was a few months ago. I was helping the Boy Scouts out up town. They were taking down all the US Flags after the fourth of July. The scout master had a flat tire (caused by a city street crew I might add) and called me to come help the scouts take down flags while he got his flat fixed.
I was jumping in and out of the truck twice per block and wasn't putting my seatbelt on between stops. Young rookie city cop wrote me up. I paid the fine but I was truly pissed. I didn't say a thing, just paid up. But I still get pissed when I think about it.
On my first violation I explained why I wasn't wearing a seat belt. It fell on deaf ears so on the other violations I didn't bother.
The funny one was the 2nd one. It was in a small town in a small county. I wasn't a local. As I waited for the cop to walk up to my window, as he ran my license, and as he came back to my window and gave me my ticket I watched car after car go by with people without seat belts. Based on their tags they were locals.
My only real complaint with the seat belt violations is that I've yet to figure out how not wearing a seat belt is a danger to society.
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My only real complaint with the seat belt violations is that I've yet to figure out how not wearing a seat belt is a danger to society.
Because even though we at EMS like playing with the trauma helicopter it is a real PITA to call one out. You have to find and set up a landing area and deal with all the lovely things the rotors throw at you and your patient. That and putting someone in a cadaver bag for the morgue that could have at least been on a stretcher heading to the hospital is a real pain. You wold not believe the paperwork involved.
In the hundreds of accidents that I have worked I have only seen one that a seatbelt directly caused the fatality. Lost count on the people that would still be around if they had one on.
That and the time we spend scraping your carcass off the road could have been better spent taking care of the non breathing baby that we could have saved if we were not tending to the MVA.
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Because even though we at EMS like playing with the trauma helicopter it is a real PITA to call one out. You have to find and set up a landing area and deal with all the lovely things the rotors throw at you and your patient. That and putting someone in a cadaver bag for the morgue that could have at least been on a stretcher heading to the hospital is a real pain. You wold not believe the paperwork involved.
In the hundreds of accidents that I have worked I have only seen one that a seatbelt directly caused the fatality. Lost count on the people that would still be around if they had one on.
That and the time we spend scraping your carcass off the road could have been better spent taking care of the non breathing baby that we could have saved if we were not tending to the MVA.
AR, I only have one problem with what you are saying. It just should not be a law, especially not a primary enforcement law. A public safety ad campaign is better, and if a law is an must, and I am not sure that it is, then make it a secondary violation only.
I got dinged for a seatbelt violation once here in Maryland, after being very curious as to why the state trooper had pulled my vehicle out of a pack of vehicles that were going roughly the speed limit. I told him to just write the ticket, it's Maryland and a state trooper here is not going to not write a ticket.
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Because even though we at EMS like playing with the trauma helicopter it is a real PITA to call one out. You have to find and set up a landing area and deal with all the lovely things the rotors throw at you and your patient. That and putting someone in a cadaver bag for the morgue that could have at least been on a stretcher heading to the hospital is a real pain. You wold not believe the paperwork involved.
In the hundreds of accidents that I have worked I have only seen one that a seatbelt directly caused the fatality. Lost count on the people that would still be around if they had one on.
That and the time we spend scraping your carcass off the road could have been better spent taking care of the non breathing baby that we could have saved if we were not tending to the MVA.
That's understandable. And I appreciate all that EMS does. I've got a couple of friends who are EMTs and a friend who is a former ER trauma nurse. Based on their stories I know its a job that I wouldn't want to try to handle, but if we're going to write a ticket for every thing in life that may possibly impact the time of EMS it's going to take a big, big ticket book.
I think you'll agree that a seatbelt doesn't prevent accidents so even if every single person wore a seat belt 100% of the time there will still be accidents. EMS will still have to call the trauma helicopter. Paper work will still need to be filled out. People will still need to be put into cadaver bags.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not against seat belts. If I were instead of wearing them 95% of the time I would never wear them. I also know that seat belts can prevent some fatalities. I do, however, think that too much emphasis is put on seat belts as some sort of a miracle savior. They are a safety device. They may improve your chance of survival, but they do not ensure your survival in a crash. I saw a drivers ed film once where the narrating cop even said that he had never unbuckled a dead body.
I would think that the public (and EMS's time) is much more at risk with an individual believing he (or she) can drive like Richard Petty at Daytona Speedway on an open highway and be invincible because he (or she) is wearing a seat belt than with an individual not wearing a seat belt driving safely in town's 30 mph zone. But I could be wrong.
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Don't some states still have a provision in the seatbelt statute that you won't be pulled over solely for a seatbelt violation?
I'm sure that was the case when the law was first established in Ohio, and I thought it was widespread in other states.
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Don't some states still have a provision in the seatbelt statute that you won't be pulled over solely for a seatbelt violation?
I'm sure that was the case when the law was first established in Ohio, and I thought it was widespread in other states.
I THINK that when the seat belt law first went into effect in Ga that it was supposed to be a secondary violation. If they stopped you for something else and you weren't wearing a seat belt they would write you up. I didn't have a problem with that, but they changed it a few years back.
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Because even though we at EMS like playing with the trauma helicopter it is a real PITA to call one out. You have to find and set up a landing area and deal with all the lovely things the rotors throw at you and your patient. That and putting someone in a cadaver bag for the morgue that could have at least been on a stretcher heading to the hospital is a real pain. You wold not believe the paperwork involved.
In the hundreds of accidents that I have worked I have only seen one that a seatbelt directly caused the fatality. Lost count on the people that would still be around if they had one on.
That and the time we spend scraping your carcass off the road could have been better spent taking care of the non breathing baby that we could have saved if we were not tending to the MVA.
If it wasn't for the fact that the FRG had a sealbelt law on April 23rd, 1988, I might not be here today. That's when I had to dodge a local farmer who was turning his tractor around on the road, as I was headed home from base. I got around the farmer just fine; the road jagged right and I must have tried to slow down, locked the brakes, and wound up in a ravine at about 30 mph. The tree I hit, which caused the roof to collapse, was about six inches in diameter. If I hadn't had the belt on, my upper body would probably have been where the roof came into. As it was, my head hit the indentation of the roof pretty hard, and I woke up six days later. Enough marbles fell into place about three weeks after that for me to remember who I was. The very fact that I was alive to have those marbles fall back into place is entirely, IMO, due to the fact that I was wearing my seatbelt. My father drilled it into my head when I was learning how to drive--Always wear your seatbelt!--and I listened.
Now, strangely enough, I don't think it should be mandatory. Why? God has this thing called "Natural Selection." It'll eventually catch up to those that don't wear one.
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Well this explains why none of them can tell a proper bouncie anymore. If they avoid being in the same proximity of cops how can the DUmmies possibly have them jumping out of the bushes?
Cindie
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I go to church with a police officer. One of the nicest people I know.
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If you've ever wondered how people become DUmp democrats, here's an example:As soon as he was released from the hospital, he registered at the DUmp.
And then he registered as a Democratic voter.
Twice.
I just spewed my drink all over my monitor! H5's all!
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trauma helicopter it is a real PITA to call one out. You have to find and set up a landing area
Every rural volunteer fire department in our county has a helicopter pad for just such ocassions. Except one and my son was going to do that one for an Eagle project. The fire dept. had just about enough money and free services to do the job but the greater county wisdom said one wasn't needed there because there was one about 5 miles away. Hell, there was no tax dollars envolved so what the hell was there problem with issuing a permit for one?
ETA: The pads that are in are in well maintained areas with large concrete landing pads, painted, with ample lighting and a wind sock. I have one about a mile away that's on church property and was done as an eagle project. I'm glad it's there, I might need it someday.
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I THINK that when the seat belt law first went into effect in Ga that it was supposed to be a secondary violation. If they stopped you for something else and you weren't wearing a seat belt they would write you up. I didn't have a problem with that, but they changed it a few years back.
WV has the same thing. Secondary violation... now a small group of stupid dem delegates wants the nanny state government to make it a primary violation. Fortunately it has been voted down the last 3 years.
I am against it. That just gives the cops one more reason to pull you over and all they got to say is: "I saw that he/she didn't have their seat belt on." I can see it being abused.
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WV has the same thing. Secondary violation... now a small group of stupid dem delegates wants the nanny state government to make it a primary violation. Fortunately it has been voted down the last 3 years.
I am against it. That just gives the cops one more reason to pull you over and all they got to say is: "I saw that he/she didn't have their seat belt on." I can see it being abused.
When Illinois first passed the seat belt law, it was a secondary violation, but they soon realized they could make more money by making it a ticketable offense by itself.
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When Illinois first passed the seat belt law, it was a secondary violation, but they soon realized they could make more money by making it a ticketable offense by itself.
Your are exactly correct. Not to mention if a cop sees a vehicle, and just "knows something is going on" he/she can use that as probable cause to pull them over. If there is nothing going on, they will let them off with a "warning". Several local cops I went to school with have said as much and that is why they support it... and that is why I am against it. It is way too open. Not that I am worried about getting busted mind you, cause I obey the law, I just got a problem with a cop saying he can't see me wearing my belt and pulling me over.
I read a couple of three or four weeks ago in our local liberal fish wrap, the Charleston Gazette, that MADD wants to pass a law that forces all vehicle manufacturers to have alcohol breath sensors installed in all vehicles so the car won't start if it detects alcohol. Capito, our GOP rep to the US house supports it. I won't be supporting her anymore. I do not drive drunk, but that it just one more step down the liberal nanny state road.
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Your are exactly correct. Not to mention if a cop sees a vehicle, and just "knows something is going on" he/she can use that as probable cause to pull them over. If there is nothing going on, they will let them off with a "warning". Several local cops I went to school with have said as much and that is why they support it... and that is why I am against it. It is way too open. Not that I am worried about getting busted mind you, cause I obey the law, I just got a problem with a cop saying he can't see me wearing my belt and pulling me over.
I read a couple of three or four weeks ago in our local liberal fish wrap, the Charleston Gazette, that MADD wants to pass a law that forces all vehicle manufacturers to have alcohol breath sensors installed in all vehicles so the car won't start if it detects alcohol. Capito, our GOP rep to the US house supports it. I won't be supporting her anymore. I do not drive drunk, but that it just one more step down the liberal nanny state road.
MADD is the PETA of alcohol.
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MADD is the PETA of alcohol.
If MADD had their way, you would get arrested for wearing cologne that contains alcohol.
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When Illinois first passed the seat belt law, it was a secondary violation, but they soon realized they could make more money by making it a ticketable offense by itself.
Same here in Virginia.
That's the way it always starts out. :banghead: