The Conservative Cave
Current Events => General Discussion => Topic started by: TVDOC on November 18, 2011, 12:48:35 PM
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http://www.michaelyon-online.com/pocket-spies.htm
17 November 2011
We know the Internet has dangers. Everything we put onto the information superhighway should be considered chiseled into marble. Meanwhile, those smartphones that so many of us carry are tantamount to carrying hostile spies in our pockets. If the battery is charged and in the phone, the phone is a homing beacon whether it’s on or off. Now add services such as Facebook, and those excellent phone cameras with geotagging, and there is a combination for disaster.
More at link......
doc
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Sorry, if this is news to you, I'm shocked. Those little devices have been tracking our every move for years. Track away. I've got nothing to hide.
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Sorry, if this is news to you, I'm shocked. Those little devices have been tracking our every move for years. Track away. I've got nothing to hide.
Well....what should be news to you is that it's customary for a new member to post in the "Welcomes and Introductions" forum, telling the membership something about yourself, prior to jumping into discussions......it is the courteous thing to do.
That said, welcome.
doc
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http://www.michaelyon-online.com/pocket-spies.htm
More at link......
doc
Doc, as we know the life span of people is rising, that leaves us old folk in a problem. All the techno stuff for the over 60 crowd is confusing.
So we call in our 8 year old grand kids to program our stuff, every thing from our home heater thermostats,
our video players, the TV remote to a new Microwave. With all the new stuff the elders need help programing their bed side radio clocks.
How many people over 60 know the new car they buy has a little black box keeping track of every turn of the wheel, the brake or even how far one has driven.??
Not all is lost, grandkids are teaching grandma how to look for and find hidden cameras in dressing rooms, install security inside and out side their homes.
It has become backward today, was once the elders taught the youth on life, now it is the very young teaching the elders how to survive.
Interesting turn of events, perhaps better then the old way. Grandparents teach the kids how and what they did to survive in their day and age. Today's kids teach grandparents with another 20-30 years of life how to survive in the present age.
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Sorry, but Yon has gone around the bend. Cell phones DO have a lot of those capabilities, but don't think for a second the government has the resources to track even a small percentage of them, even if they wanted to and could conceivably get warrants for them.
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Interesting, probably because I know so little about all this.
I was listening to NPR on the way to town a couple days ago and there was a report about police tracking the movement of cars related to investigation. One side saying when we are driving we should have no expectation of privacy because it's in public view, etc. The other side saying the police should have to obtain a warrant to use a tracking device and be able to give cause for requesting that capability.
I tend to agree with the first, though I don't like the notion of being "followed." Should I care? I'm pretty sure anyone who did track my travel would either fall asleep or wonder if I have a goal in mind. I like to wander sometimes. But is this a matter of privacy?
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If the vehicle and/or position of the vehicle is needed to draw further conclusions and obtain further evidence which would normally require a warrant, then yes, putting a tracking device on a vehicle SHOULD require a warrant as well, lest the evidence obtained fall under the "poisoned tree" theme.
Frankly, the whole idea of police putting tracking devices on cars is a question of laziness and manpower, or lack thereof. You think this guy is committing a crime? Want to know where he's going and who he's associating with? Follow him around if in public, or get a warrant to put on the tracking device. The Fourth Amendment is pretty clear when it says, "secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects," and a vehicle has been demonstrated time and again to fall under that protection.
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If the vehicle and/or position of the vehicle is needed to draw further conclusions and obtain further evidence which would normally require a warrant, then yes, putting a tracking device on a vehicle SHOULD require a warrant as well, lest the evidence obtained fall under the "poisoned tree" theme.
Frankly, the whole idea of police putting tracking devices on cars is a question of laziness and manpower, or lack thereof. You think this guy is committing a crime? Want to know where he's going and who he's associating with? Follow him around if in public, or get a warrant to put on the tracking device. The Fourth Amendment is pretty clear when it says, "secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects," and a vehicle has been demonstrated time and again to fall under that protection.
I suspect that Yon's entire point is that recently it was revealed that GM's "ON Star" program was archiving the data from their vehicles (regardless of whether you subscribe or not), so the data is out there.........there is vastly more information transmission capabilities from your "smartphones". Personally, this is the singular reason that I never purchase a vehicle that has the capability to communicate with the outside world in any manner, unless via hardwire, and under my supervision.
Warrant or not, private companies are retrieving and storing information that........buried in the fine print of your service contract.......enables them to use (and sell) this personal information for their own purposes, nefarious or otherwise.
Court decisions have been eroding Fourth Amendment protections for decades, and will likely continue to do so (an example would be how far the phrase "reasonable suspicion" has evolved), however the Fourth doesn't prohibit "private" companies from accumulating such information, especially when an individual signs away those protections by purchasing a product. So long as the information is in private hands the Fourth really doesn't apply. The Constitution establishes limits on government......not commercial entities.
If private companies are accumulating and storing information on their subscribers, regardless of how benign it might be on the surface, it is just another resource that the government can get their grubby little hands on whenever they find a "need" to do so.
All this cutting-edge technology is really a sword that cuts both ways.......the consumer receives a lot of "gee whiz" for their money, however the providers receive access to your personal habits and usage patterns. The age-old trade-off.........convenience for personal security........everyone gets to make a choice, however it should be an informed choice.
Personally, I prefer to leave "no tracks in newly fallen snow", so to speak.......our cell phones are just that.....phones.......10 y/o old Nokia's that do not have a GPS chip included, they are just phones, and work just fine. When not in use, the batteries are removed, and kept on an induction charger.
YMMV.......
doc
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If the vehicle and/or position of the vehicle is needed to draw further conclusions and obtain further evidence which would normally require a warrant, then yes, putting a tracking device on a vehicle SHOULD require a warrant as well, lest the evidence obtained fall under the "poisoned tree" theme.
Frankly, the whole idea of police putting tracking devices on cars is a question of laziness and manpower, or lack thereof. You think this guy is committing a crime? Want to know where he's going and who he's associating with? Follow him around if in public, or get a warrant to put on the tracking device. The Fourth Amendment is pretty clear when it says, "secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects," and a vehicle has been demonstrated time and again to fall under that protection.
The courts have already allowed for GPS tracking devices on suspects cars without warrants.
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I do not agree with the old I have nothing to hide statement. Remember the Miranda rights clause that anything you say MAY be used against you.? Fair warning, the police can and do lie to those interviewed but you can be charged with lying to them.
Say you are in a strange neighborhood looking at homes for sale, neighborhood watch sees your unfamiliar car and notes down your license plate. The next day a home is broken in to and the owners are killed.
Knock on the door and the cops want to know what you were doing that day, why you were there. You tell them the truth, you were just looking out of curiosity, not meaning to buy, just a lookie-loo.
Cops come back the next day or call you down to the station and tell you 5 people have seen your car riding about that area at all times of day and night, perhaps even parked near a school bus drop off zone. Now as you deny this the cops start looking into you ,your family and friends and find you have a black sheep in the family that you have seen only on holidays that spent some time for B&E, drugs or DWI.
Cops request your finger prints and a DNA swab, ---you have nothing to hide so you coperate with the request.
With all this going on you are loosing work and perhaps sleep, nothing screws with the mind more then to be accused of some action you did not do. Whats the old saying "Me thinks you protest too much"
You begin to try to relive everything you did that day, did you even drive past that house, was a home up for sale next door, did you get out of your car and perhaps peek in the windows, drop a cigarette butt on the ground with your DNA on it. Finger prints on the window as you looked inside.
Your life is an open book, but what about acquaintances family and friends. Your boss may not like you enough to allow you to take off work for all this questioning, coworkers are now giving you strange looks.
Your car is impounded, for months. Little by little you realise that you are the only suspect the police have.
Then comes an open search warrent of your home and all property, your story about out of the blue deciding to look at homes for sale in that area with no intent to buy is very fishy to them.
All too late you lawyer up, why get a lawyer if one is innocent, you have nothing to hide. You wait until you have lost your transportation, home has been ransacked by the police, perhaps fired from your job, friends and family have been investigated' you had no idea that there were outstanding warrents out on Uncle Joe or your nephews were growing weed in Grandmas back yard.
You may have nothing to hide, but, what about friends and family that get caught up in this investigation ???
Not but to mention the anger they direct at you for calling attenton to them.
The simple things in life, innocent acts can get a criminal caught. A tail light out on a car transporting drugs, up to Son Of Sam that was caught because of a parking ticket. Not too surprising that someone would uses the excuse they were in unfamiliar territory just looking at homes they had no intention to buy.
You my Dear are either very Naive or very young to believe that living a open book life and doing no wrong can keep you safe from some kind of calamity--------Look at the people that have their identities stolen ,now that is Hell on earth.
--edited because there was a very loooooooooong empty space taking up way too much room when viewed on my laptop. Dixie
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off the deep end
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off the deep end
I was waiting for you Gina, glad to debate with you.
Can you say my story could never happen to an honest person who finds themselves in the middle of a police action ??
My story came from a true life happening, no one I know just an article in a local paper in Norfork Va.
It kind of stuck in my head for years as I had 4 teenagers that could have been at the wrong place at the wrong time.
Around the time the article came out one of my kids was just walking past a 7-11 and saw a robbery. He, as a kid saw action, and just stood and watched as a classmate --not a friend--ran and was tackled by the store employees . What excitement for a kid, in came the cops sirens blaring, cops making an arrested was going to happen next????
Next was a cop began to question the by standers, what did the see, did they know the PERP, son was with a couple of friends that also went to school with the PERP, said so they recognised him, and all 3 were taken down town to be questioned.
Poor boys, none ever been in trouble but now were for the first time in their lives in a city Jail being questioned by get in your face Police, they had badges and GUNS. All they had done was stand and watch something that they had never seen before, being done by a class mate they recognised.
End of story is it is hard to get poop and pee out of the pants of a scared kid.
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Why thank you vesta dear. Off the deep end was referring to the long space after your post. It was as if you were driving and yakking and went off a cliff. :panic: