The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: SSG Snuggle Bunny on November 01, 2011, 04:58:10 PM
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Tue Nov-01-11 09:42 PM
Original message
Heritage Foundation & American Enterprise Institute call teachers stupid and overpaid
The Heritage Foundation and the American Enterprise Institute have put out a report purporting to show that public school teachers are overpaid. It's 23 pages of elaborate statistical justification of right-wing beliefs, all built on a foundation of right-wing assumptions. The basic claims are that while teachers are underpaid relative to other people with similar levels of education, in fact they are overpaid because education programs are easier than other majors and also, teachers are stupid; that public school teachers earn more than private school teachers and this shows they earn more than the market should support; and that people who leave teaching earn less while people who enter teaching earn more, therefore teachers are overpaid.
Each of these claims deserves more extensive attention than I can give it, but let's take a look at a couple of points that jumped screaming off the page at me. We get a sense of where this is going when the report's authors acknowledge that comparing teachers to people with similar educations shows that teachers are underpaid, but argue that they need to look deeper because (PDF):
If we added an indicator for architects to the regression, for example, we would find that architects receive a wage premium over similarly skilled workers. Yet few people would immediately conclude that architects are “overpaid.â€
Got that? Architects aren't overpaid because ... they're architects! Who could think such a thing? Not a bit of inherent class bias operating there. Teachers, though ...
more . . . http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/11/01/1032086/-Herit...
Not that she would bother reading the report first-hand, she has to spin it through the What-to-Think-inator.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2225254
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Not that she would bother reading the report first-hand, she has to spin it through the What-to-Think-inator.http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2225254
...and translate it through three different languages and then back to english
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They say that hearing the truth is painful. One only has to see the result of how great a job teachers are doing justbby asking any recent High School graduate a few questions. For all the money spent on education in this country versus the end result, the American people should demand a refund and jail time for the educators that have commited fraud.
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...and translate it through three different languages and then back to english
all the while, trying to read it with a mirror.
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What happens when an Architect designs something that has a serious flaw, would he lose his job? or would he still be able to work because of tenure? What happens when the public school system fails generation after generation, to the point where we're ranked 25th in math and 21st in science, and we have a drop-out rate of over a million a year? that Teacher gets a raise and tenure.
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Heritage/AEI must read the DUmp. No shortage of proof there.
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Do the parents if the kids she is supposed to teach, aware of this idiot?
That girl is on a fast track to the unemployment line.
I'm just thankful none of my grandkids aren't in that district. :banghead:
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I think that tenure should be outlawed myself. It's a piss poor excuse to keep those that can't do the job they were hired for. There is absolutly no reason why a non productive teacher should keep their jobs and Proud2Bstupid is the best example why.
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Not that she would bother reading the report first-hand, she has to spin it through the What-to-Think-inator.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2225254
Is that the model available from Doofenschmirtz Evil, Incorporated?
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Is that the model available from Doofenschmirtz Evil, Incorporated?
I love Phineus and Ferb.
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I think we digressed from the Topicstarter subject
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I think we digressed from the Topicstarter subject
You haven't been here long, right? Stick around the thread and you'll see that it'll probably get back onto the beam.
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Tue Nov-01-11 09:42 PM
Original message
Heritage Foundation & American Enterprise Institute call teachers stupid and overpaid
The Heritage Foundation and the American Enterprise Institute have put out a report purporting to show that public school teachers are overpaid. It's 23 pages of elaborate statistical justification of right-wing beliefs, all built on a foundation of right-wing assumptions. The basic claims are that while teachers are underpaid relative to other people with similar levels of education, in fact they are overpaid because education programs are easier than other majors and also, teachers are stupid; that public school teachers earn more than private school teachers and this shows they earn more than the market should support; and that people who leave teaching earn less while people who enter teaching earn more, therefore teachers are overpaid.
Each of these claims deserves more extensive attention than I can give it, but let's take a look at a couple of points that jumped screaming off the page at me. We get a sense of where this is going when the report's authors acknowledge that comparing teachers to people with similar educations shows that teachers are underpaid, but argue that they need to look deeper because (PDF):
If we added an indicator for architects to the regression, for example, we would find that architects receive a wage premium over similarly skilled workers. Yet few people would immediately conclude that architects are “overpaid.â€
Got that? Architects aren't overpaid because ... they're architects! Who could think such a thing? Not a bit of inherent class bias operating there. Teachers, though ...
more . . . http://www.dailykos.com/s...2011/11/01/1032086/-Herit...
If you worked more than 8 months out of the year folks wouldn't think that of you!
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in fact they are overpaid because education programs are easier than other majors
and that would be absolutely true. I've been there. You could major in "education" while blind drunk and high as a kite. It's a piece of cake, as long as you can stand a bunch of kids during student teaching segments.
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I look at it this way--if Anne, Pam, and the rest of the "educators" were paid according to results, a job at McD's would be a major step up for them.
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Are they seriously comparing teachers to architects? Architects have to design functional, attractive buildings that are structurally sound. If they screw up, the results can be devastating.
Education classes are a breeze, and there are no real consequences if a teacher screws up, at least not any that the teacher has to face. If a kid doesn't learn, a bad teacher can easily blame it on every other factor, except her teaching, if she so wishes. Laying off teachers is difficult, and it is pretty much impossible to fire a teacher before the school year is over. They make a full salary for 9 months of work.
One of my best friends is a teacher, and I think she is a really good teacher. She does bungee roping barbie with her algebra students to show them real world applications of mathematic equations. She loves teaching statistics, so she is going to start a new AP statistics program at her high school next year. She is really dedicated, and it sounds like her kids are really learning.
Good teachers are absolutely worth their salaries, the problem is when the mediocre teachers pretend to be as valuable as the good teachers.
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Oh, and you know what bugs me? It's when some educator type says, "if I can make a difference in just one child, I'll have done my job." No, you haven't. You need to reach the 25-30 in your class in a meaningful way. That's doing your job. Anything else is half-assed and deserves no pat on the back from yourself.
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Judging by the final product, I'd say it's a fair asessment. What other industry could get away with a 25% failure rate besides government?
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Judging by the final product, I'd say it's a fair asessment. What other industry could get away with a 25% failure rate besides government?
In baseball a player that gets a hit 1/3 of the time is considered successful. :-)
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In baseball a player that gets a hit 1/3 of the time is considered successful. :-)
:tongue:
Would you go to a doctor who killed a quarter of his patients?
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Judging by the final product, I'd say it's a fair asessment. What other industry could get away with a 25% failure rate besides government?
Professional baseball players and weathermen.
But then, that's a very small slice of the American population.
edited to correct a typo.
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:tongue:
Would you go to a doctor who killed a quarter of his patients?
Or a pilot that only lands safely, three out of four tries? :fuelfire:
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I think we digressed from the Topicstarter subject
This guy would have a stroke if vestanumbers weighed in.