The Conservative Cave
Current Events => General Discussion => Topic started by: CG6468 on October 07, 2011, 10:17:15 AM
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Received in an email:
Obituary - Very Interesting
In 1887 Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh , had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years prior:
"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse over loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship.."
"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:
From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage."
The Obituary follows:
Born 1776, Died 2012
It doesn't hurt to read this several times.
Professor Joseph Olson of Hamlin University School of Law in St. Paul, Minnesota , points out some interesting facts concerning the last Presidential election:
Number of States won by:
Obama: 19 McCain: 29
Square miles of land won by:
Obama: 580,000 McCain: 2,427,000
Population of counties won by:
Obama: 127 million McCain: 143 million
Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by:
Obama: 13.2 McCain: 2.1
Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory McCain won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of the country. Obama territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in low income tenements and living off various forms of government welfare..."
Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the "complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's population already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.
If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million criminal invaders called illegal's - and they vote - then we can say goodbye to the USA in fewer than five years.
If you are in favor of this, then by all means, delete this message.
If you are not, then pass this along to help everyone realize just how much is at stake, knowing that apathy is the greatest danger to our freedom..
This is truly scary! Of course we are not a democracy, we are a Constitutional Republic . Someone should point this out to Obama. Of course we know he and too many others pay little attention to The Constitution. There couldn't be more at stake than on Nov 2012.
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The Obituary follows:
Born 1776, Died 2012
Stop kicking dirt over me, I ain't dead yet.
I understand the desire to urge people to wake the **** up but the "WE'RE DOOMED!" messaging quickly takes on a defeatist tone. People seldom fight when there is nothing left to fight for. They'll either run away or assume a self-centered preservationist mode. THAT will only hasten the crumbling.
Give them a reason to fight.
Do you think those little shit-stains in New York are a reason to quail?
Seriously?
Gina's pet squirrel is showing more balls than this.
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Stop kicking dirt over me, I ain't dead yet.
I understand the desire to urge people to wake the **** up but the "WE'RE DOOMED!" messaging quickly takes on a defeatist tone. People seldom fight when there is nothing left to fight for. They'll either run away or assume a self-centered preservationist mode. THAT will only hasten the crumbling.
Give them a reason to fight.
Do you think those little shit-stains in New York are a reason to quail?
Seriously?
Gina's pet squirrel is showing more balls than this.
Back off. I don't insult you. I just post things I find, I don't write them.
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I just post things I find, I don't write them.
Did the despondency fairy suddenly overtake your mind and force you to post these things?
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I'm with Sarge on this one. The glass is half full.
There's a lot of truth in that synopsis but I'm not into the whole "we're f*cked" mentality.
Lots of people these days like to say we're on the cusp of America's second civil war but I like to think we can still rise above that. Granting amnesty to the (some sources say >30 million) illegals could make a liar out of me though. That may likely prove to be the thing that gets the rounds going downrange for real.
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I've seen that before.
"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:
From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
--------------------------------------> We are about here.
From dependence back into bondage."
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I've seen that before.
"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:
From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
--------------------------------------> We are about here.
From dependence back into bondage."
And the protesters on Wallstreet want to push us to that next step.
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And the protesters on Wallstreet want to push us to that next step.
If those little shit stains got what they wanted, most of them wouldn't survive a month in the anarchy that would ensue.
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Did the despondency fairy suddenly overtake your mind and force you to post these things?
You got it. I will no longer post any news. Happy?
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You got it. I will no longer post any news. Happy?
Don't worry about the rodent.
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Don't worry about the rodent.
The bullshit is getting thick around here.
**** it. I'll stand by my opinion.
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The bullshit is getting thick around here.
**** it. I'll stand by my opinion.
:drama: :chill:
It helps to give your opinion of the item when you post these things. Either agree fully or partially or disagree fully or partially. When you post an opinion piece without comment , it seems like you are supporting the piece.
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:drama: :chill:
It helps to give your opinion of the item when you post these things. Either agree fully or partially or disagree fully or partially. When you post an opinion piece without comment , it seems like you are supporting the piece.
I disagree with you on the last sentence. But to each their own.
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Seems to me the Founding Fathers knew about this progression and gave us a 2nd amendment to stop the final step.
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You got it. I will no longer post any news. Happy?
And here I was afraid that you were some shrinking violet who wilted at the faintest signs of adversity.
I guess you showed me.
When you're done feeling sorry for yourself please feel free to address the fact that it isn't calls to action that irk me but the notion that action is pointless, i.e. your fat lady thread that says we're doomed regardless of who wins in 2012.
It is defeatist it offers nothing but demoralization. It gives up. It resigns the republic to the barbarians. I'm wondering why someone would even write such a thing. Usually we write to convince others of some thing or urge them to some action. Why bother if we're doomed either way?
It's one thing to discuss the life cycle of a democracy, it's another to say "so let us be on guard and let us not fall into that trap" and yet another to succumb to fatalist despair.
You'll never be a bunny, you should at least strive to be a man.
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And here I was afraid that you were some shrinking violet who wilted at the faintest signs of adversity.
I guess you showed me.
When you're done feeling sorry for yourself please feel free to address the fact that it isn't calls to action that irk me but the notion that action is pointless, i.e. your fat lady thread that says we're doomed regardless of who wins in 2012.
It is defeatist it offers nothing but demoralization. It gives up. It resigns the republic to the barbarians. I'm wondering why someone would even write such a thing. Usually we write to convince others of some thing or urge them to some action. Why bother if we're doomed either way?
It's one thing to discuss the life cycle of a democracy, it's another to say "so let us be on guard and let us not fall into that trap" and yet another to succumb to fatalist despair.
You'll never be a bunny, you should at least strive to be a man.
You do realize that he was merely posting links and e-mails that he has run across right?
I haven't seen him post that he actually agrees with them.
Now be a good little rodent and go ask your 1SG for a carrot or piece of lettuce. :-)
BTW... No matter whom is elected in 2012 the decline will continue. It's merely a matter of speed.
Ya can't fix this shit from the top down.
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You do realize that he was merely posting links and e-mails that he has run across right?
I haven't seen him post that he actually agrees with them.
Now be a good little rodent and go ask your 1SG for a carrot or piece of lettuce. :-)
BTW... No matter whom is elected in 2012 the decline will continue. It's merely a matter of speed.
Ya can't fix this shit from the top down.
The decline may continue, but it will accelerate if Obama remains in office.
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The decline may continue, but it will accelerate if Obama remains in office.
On that we agree 110%.
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You do realize that he was merely posting links and e-mails that he has run across right?
I haven't seen him post that he actually agrees with them.
Now be a good little rodent and go ask your 1SG for a carrot or piece of lettuce. :-)
BTW... No matter whom is elected in 2012 the decline will continue. It's merely a matter of speed.
Ya can't fix this shit from the top down.
We can overcome tongue-slitting savages, a civil war, Jim Crowe, the robber barons, a depression, the socialist FDR, 2 world wars, a cold war, etc. and remain the envy of human history.
And yet we are to be undone by a bunch of snot-nosed brats who cry over the college loans they took on themselves.
If so we deserve to be doomed.
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We can overcome tongue-slitting savages, a civil war, Jim Crowe, the robber barons, a depression, the socialist FDR, 2 world wars, a cold war, etc. and remain the envy of human history.
And yet we are to be undone by a bunch of snot-nosed brats who cry over the college loans they took on themselves.
If so we deserve to be doomed.
I will post something that I have posted before:
"The America of today is a laboratory example if what can happen to democracies, what has eventually happened to all perfect democracies throughout history. A perfect democracy, a 'warm body' democracy in which every adult may vote and all votes count equally, has no internal feedback for self-correction. It depends solely on the wisdom and self-restraint of citizens... which is opposed by the folly and lack of self-restraint of other citizens. What is supposed to happen in a democracy is that each sovereign citizen will always vote in public interest for the safety and welfare of all. But what does happen is that he votes his own self-interest as he sees it... which for the majority translates as 'Bread and Circuses'.
Bread and Circuses is the cancer of democracy, the fatal disease for which there is no cure. Democracy often works beautifully at first. But once the state extends the franchise to every warm body, be he producer or parasite, that day marks the beginning of the end of the state. For when the plebs discover that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death, or in it's weakened condition the state succums to an invader - the barbarians enter Rome."
We have passed the breaking point IMO. The plebes now almost out number the producers. Roughly 50 percent of the population no longer pay "income" taxes according to reports I have seen. The Plebes will continue to vote themselves Bread and Circuses.
Is this a pessimistic view? Yes it is. But it's already happening and has been happening for decades.
I don't have to like it and I don't. But it is the reality as I see it.
The collapse IS coming. It's merely a matter of when IMO.
I don't buy into doom and gloom any more than I do pie in the sky. But I do observe what is going on around me and form my opinions accordingly.
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Fatalism is more befitting the Arab horde. It's why their so-called civilization has stagnated for so many centuries.
We are not condemned to this fate. There is no hand of God driving us to ruin. We have a choice and we have the ability to act. And I think we have time to act. That doesn't mean we can sit idle or that thingsw won't get worse before they get better.
Bodies may whither and die but we aren't talking about bodies we are talking about principles that allow people to be free, provide for their families and prosper. Far from being frail the vitality of these ideals have been proven every time they have been employed no matter how long they've been allowed to lie dormant.
Even if the nation crashed tomorrow it would still have to be rebuilt and those who refuse to resignation will be the ones to do it and they will excel while others beg and die and rightfully so. Unless humanity itself were to cease existing there will always be a fight.
I have no use for those who are too scared to step out of their veal pen. The sooner they're out of the way the sooner the rest of us can get back to work.
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Fatalism is more befitting the Arab horde. It's why their so-called civilization has stagnated for so many centuries.
We are not condemned to this fate. There is no hand of God driving us to ruin. We have a choice and we have the ability to act. And I think we have time to act. That doesn't mean we can sit idle or that thingsw won't get worse before they get better.
Bodies may whither and die but we aren't talking about bodies we are talking about principles that allow people to be free, provide for their families and prosper. Far from being frail the vitality of these ideals have been proven every time they have been employed no matter how long they've been allowed to lie dormant.
Even if the nation crashed tomorrow it would still have to be rebuilt and those who refuse to resignation will be the ones to do it and they will excel while others beg and die and rightfully so. Unless humanity itself were to cease existing there will always be a fight.
I have no use for those who are too scared to step out of their veal pen. The sooner they're out of the way the sooner the rest of us can get back to work.
:clap:
If we do end up at that WTSHTF moment as a nation I say bring it on. Like a round of chemo it will be rough as hell to endure and may prove to be a near run thing but in the end we shall emerge purged of the ills which brought it about and a better future ahead.
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I'm not referring to fatalism. I am speaking about the way things currently are. Are we doomed to fail? Nope.
But will we? Yes, unless things change drastically and quickly.
I just don't see that happening. The ball has already gained too much momentum to stop IMO. Can we rebuild after the collapse? Hell yes, and I believe we will.
But in order to rebuild something, has to be destroyed or torn down first.
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I'm not referring to fatalism. I am speaking about the way things currently are. Are we doomed to fail? Nope.
But will we? Yes, unless things change drastically and quickly.
I just don't see that happening.
Make it happen. But "oh well" won't cut it.
This country was founded at a time when a mad king was gunning down citizens in the streets.
That wasn't a harbinger of doom it was the beginning of the best ****ing nation this sad, sick little planet has even been blessed to see.
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And our government isn't gunning down people in the streets?
It's a matter of perspective.
Is the TSA working to preserve your rights?
Or are they walking all over them?
Is having to ask for government permission to purchase a firearm in line with the 2nd amendment?
What about the IRS rules tracking your financial transactions over $10K or most gold purchases?
"Make it happen" might work on a bumper sticker.... But make "what happen"?
We have a government that has dictated how many gallons of water your toilet can use per flush. We have a government that has dictated what kind of light bulbs we can buy. That is merely two examples.
So tell me... just how free are we?
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And our government isn't gunning down people in the streets?
It's a matter of perspective.
When Obama lines up federal troops to gun down law-abiding tea party activists without so much as a pretense to arrest and adjudicate then you'll have a valid comparison. But the fact of the matter is he can't and even if he tried he'd be disobeyed because that is just how far the ideals of this nation permeate.
No one said the TSA, IRS, EPA or the rest of the alphabet stupes weren't an issue. On the contrary it's been assumed since my first reply to this OP (over pussification). So, please, leave the strawmen in the cornfield where they'll do the most good.
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And our government isn't gunning down people in the streets?
It's a matter of perspective.
Is the TSA working to preserve your rights?
Or are they walking all over them?
Is having to ask for government permission to purchase a firearm in line with the 2nd amendment?
What about the IRS rules tracking your financial transactions over $10K or most gold purchases?
"Make it happen" might work on a bumper sticker.... But make "what happen"?
We have a government that has dictated how many gallons of water your toilet can use per flush. We have a government that has dictated what kind of light bulbs we can buy. That is merely two examples.
So tell me... just how free are we?
I hate it when the grownups fight!
Abraham Lincoln suspended habeus corpus during a four-year-long civil war. The union survived.
Franklin Roosevelt held American citizens of Japanese descent against their will. The union survived.
As a country, we allowed slavery of an entire race for 200 years. The nation survived.
We have hit amazing highs and historic lows. We're in for a bumpy ridie, no questions. But our government and constitution is unique in world history.
I still believe in annuit coeptis. I still think providence approves our undertaking.
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:drama: :chill:
It helps to give your opinion of the item when you post these things. Either agree fully or partially or disagree fully or partially. When you post an opinion piece without comment , it seems like you are supporting the piece.
I disagree. Posting with no comment just means that someone found something interesting and wanted to share it here.
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I hate it when the grownups fight!
Abraham Lincoln suspended habeus corpus during a four-year-long civil war. The union survived.
Franklin Roosevelt held American citizens of Japanese descent against their will. The union survived.
As a country, we allowed slavery of an entire race for 200 years. The nation survived.
We have hit amazing highs and historic lows. We're in for a bumpy ridie, no questions. But our government and constitution is unique in world history.
I still believe in annuit coeptis. I still think providence approves our undertaking.
I never meant to imply that we wouldn't survive as a nation. That is why I posted:
Can we rebuild after the collapse? Hell yes, and I believe we will.
I honestly don't think the collapse can be prevented at this point. Slowed perhaps and kicked down the road, but IMHO it is inevitable.
Unless drastic changes are made and made soon. I don't think that many Americans would willingly tolerate the type of changes required. Too many are feeding off the gov't teat and they don't want to see their handouts end.
Hell, look at the Wisconsin fiasco with the public union sector a couple of months ago. They were merely being asked to pay a small portion of their own benefits package and had a damn meltdown over it.
They feel they are "entitled" to it.
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When Obama lines up federal troops to gun down law-abiding tea party activists without so much as a pretense to arrest and adjudicate then you'll have a valid comparison. But the fact of the matter is he can't and even if he tried he'd be disobeyed because that is just how far the ideals of this nation permeate.
No one said the TSA, IRS, EPA or the rest of the alphabet stupes weren't an issue. On the contrary it's been assumed since my first reply to this OP (over pussification). So, please, leave the strawmen in the cornfield where they'll do the most good.
Kent State ring a bell? It has happened, is happening although not on a large scale, and will continue to happen until the people rise up and put a stop to it.
No strawmen involved. Simple observation is.
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I disagree. Posting with no comment just means that someone found something interesting and wanted to share it here.
Marx is interesting.
Post him with no commentary.
Kent State ring a bell?
Not seeing the connection.
Hell, look at the Wisconsin fiasco with the public union sector a couple of months ago. They were merely being asked to pay a small portion of their own benefits package and had a damn meltdown over it.
Oh no! Something happened and somebody disagreed with it! How ever shall we survive such upheavals!
:runaway:
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Rich,
I guess the argument hinges on the definition of the word "collapse." I thought you meant collapse like Alaric at the gates of Rome/Mad Max/end of American Civilization collapse. Like the kind you don't or can't rebuild from.
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Rich,
I guess the argument hinges on the definition of the word "collapse." I thought you meant collapse like Alaric at the gates of Rome/Mad Max/end of American Civilization collapse. Like the kind you don't or can't rebuild from.
That's not the type of collapse I was speaking of. My apologies if it came off that way.
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Stop FIGHTING between yourselves or I am going to go LIBERAL on yall!
:gay2: