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The Bar => Sports => Topic started by: Rebel Yell on April 30, 2008, 09:11:03 AM

Title: Joe Torre is the most overrated manager in sports history.
Post by: Rebel Yell on April 30, 2008, 09:11:03 AM: There, I said it.

:fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire:
Title: Re: Joe Torre is the most overrated manager in sports history.
Post by: john c calhoun on April 30, 2008, 09:20:13 AM: Quote from: Rebel Yell on April 30, 2008, 09:11:03 AM
There, I said it.

:fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire:

who knows...

give him a few years in los anglez & then we'll judge him...

his farm picks will take years to make their way to the plate...

but being that he hasn't dumped Nomar yet, I'm not too impressed w/ his performance :lmao: (nomar is a dodger, correct?)
Title: Re: Joe Torre is the most overrated manager in sports history.
Post by: Rebel Yell on April 30, 2008, 09:27:34 AM: Quote from: john c calhoun on April 30, 2008, 09:20:13 AM
Quote from: Rebel Yell on April 30, 2008, 09:11:03 AM
There, I said it.

:fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire:

who knows...

give him a few years in los anglez & then we'll judge him...

his farm picks will take years to make their way to the plate...

but being that he hasn't dumped Nomar yet, I'm not too impressed w/ his performance :lmao: (nomar is a dodger, correct?)

I'm not convinced that a manager really has that much to do with the outcome of a game. I know it is much less than a football coach. Besides his years having a lineup head and shoulders above the rest of baseball, he has been a .500 manager. You're right though, his stint with the Dodgers, coupled with the success of the Yankees for the next few years, will make or break his legacy.

NewYorkM 709 286 420 .405
Atlanta 486 257 229 .529
St.Louis 706 351 354 .498
NewYorkY 1942 1173 767 .605
LosAngls 26 13 13 .500
+----+-----------+--------+---+-----+----+----+------+------+
TOTAL 3869 2080 1783 .538
Title: Re: Joe Torre is the most overrated manager in sports history.
Post by: Chris_ on April 30, 2008, 09:29:37 AM: He can only get to #2 -- he has to get in line behind Phil Jackson.
Title: Re: Joe Torre is the most overrated manager in sports history.
Post by: Wretched Excess on April 30, 2008, 09:51:45 AM: as far as I have seen thus far during his short tenure with the dodgers, he has pretty much benched $44M juan pierre in favor of a couple of 20-something kids that also happen to be vastly superior ballplayers (something that was also true last year, but the kids never saw the starting lineup). he has also dropped $38M andruw jones as far down in the order as eighth. both of those players are ned coletti acquisitions (in addition to jason schimdt at $40-oddM who pitched 20 awful innings and disappeared onto the DL immediately after singing his contract), and I know for a fact that he forced grady little to start juan pierre in all 162 games (iirc) last season.

it takes a certain amount of cache on the part of the manager to relegate the general manager's pet projects to subordinate roles; it is my perception that not too many managers other than torre could have pulled that off.

you can see him trying to get a feel for his players. he started something like the 23rd different lineup in 25 games last night, but I think he has hit upon a good combination at the front of the order with furcal-ethier-kemp-kent.
Title: Re: Joe Torre is the most overrated manager in sports history.
Post by: Wretched Excess on April 30, 2008, 02:16:18 PM: Quote from: john c calhoun on April 30, 2008, 09:20:13 AM
Quote from: Rebel Yell on April 30, 2008, 09:11:03 AM
There, I said it.

:fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire:

who knows...

give him a few years in los anglez & then we'll judge him...

his farm picks will take years to make their way to the plate...

but being that he hasn't dumped Nomar yet, I'm not too impressed w/ his performance :lmao: (nomar is a dodger, correct?)

he walked into a great farm system. the person responsible for that is Logan White (http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/la/community/executives/white.html)
Title: Re: Joe Torre is the most overrated manager in sports history.
Post by: john c calhoun on April 30, 2008, 02:54:37 PM: Quote from: freedumb2003 on April 30, 2008, 09:29:37 AM
He can only get to #2 -- he has to get in line behind Phil Jackson.

yeah, Jacksons bulls really went far after MJ left eh ?? ....

I think you may have even filled jacksons shoes while MJ was on the team... :lmao:
Title: Re: Joe Torre is the most overrated manager in sports history.
Post by: john c calhoun on April 30, 2008, 03:12:25 PM: Quote from: Wretched Excess on April 30, 2008, 02:16:18 PM
Quote from: john c calhoun on April 30, 2008, 09:20:13 AM
Quote from: Rebel Yell on April 30, 2008, 09:11:03 AM
There, I said it.

:fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire:

who knows...

give him a few years in los anglez & then we'll judge him...

his farm picks will take years to make their way to the plate...

but being that he hasn't dumped Nomar yet, I'm not too impressed w/ his performance :lmao: (nomar is a dodger, correct?)

he walked into a great farm system. the person responsible for that is Logan White (http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/la/community/executives/white.html)

and now heres where joes leadership puts those young prospects on the field, instead of going for the glitz w/ overpaid, underperforming celebrities...

methinks thats why joe had ENOUGH w/ the skankees... I think AROD & Steinny were just too much for a class act like joe torre...
Title: Re: Joe Torre is the most overrated manager in sports history.
Post by: Chris_ on April 30, 2008, 03:15:32 PM: Quote from: john c calhoun on April 30, 2008, 02:54:37 PM
Quote from: freedumb2003 on April 30, 2008, 09:29:37 AM
He can only get to #2 -- he has to get in line behind Phil Jackson.

yeah, Jacksons bulls really went far after MJ left eh ?? ....

I think you may have even filled jacksons shoes while MJ was on the team... :lmao:
You might notice he was able to win with both Shaq and Kobe on the court together. After that -- meh.

If the Lakers go deep this year., it will be because of Gasol playing as Kobe's Pippin.

Great talent wins games -- who'd a thunk it?
Title: Re: Joe Torre is the most overrated manager in sports history.
Post by: john c calhoun on April 30, 2008, 03:56:00 PM: Quote from: freedumb2003 on April 30, 2008, 03:15:32 PM
Quote from: john c calhoun on April 30, 2008, 02:54:37 PM
Quote from: freedumb2003 on April 30, 2008, 09:29:37 AM
He can only get to #2 -- he has to get in line behind Phil Jackson.

yeah, Jacksons bulls really went far after MJ left eh ?? ....

I think you may have even filled jacksons shoes while MJ was on the team... :lmao:
You might notice he was able to win with both Shaq and Kobe on the court together. After that -- meh.

If the Lakers go deep this year., it will be because of Gasol playing as Kobe's Pippin.

Great talent wins games -- who'd a thunk it?

and more importantly, MJ's bulls took the long & winding road ...(ie: broke up)

that lakers team sucked....but they sucked less than everyone else in the league ...

and of course, shaq was allowed to steamroll opponents under the basket...that kinda helped a bit :p
Title: Re: Joe Torre is the most overrated manager in sports history.
Post by: BlueStateSaint on April 30, 2008, 04:03:44 PM: Quote from: john c calhoun on April 30, 2008, 03:56:00 PM
Quote from: freedumb2003 on April 30, 2008, 03:15:32 PM
Quote from: john c calhoun on April 30, 2008, 02:54:37 PM
Quote from: freedumb2003 on April 30, 2008, 09:29:37 AM
He can only get to #2 -- he has to get in line behind Phil Jackson.

yeah, Jacksons bulls really went far after MJ left eh ?? ....

I think you may have even filled jacksons shoes while MJ was on the team... :lmao:
You might notice he was able to win with both Shaq and Kobe on the court together. After that -- meh.

If the Lakers go deep this year., it will be because of Gasol playing as Kobe's Pippin.

Great talent wins games -- who'd a thunk it?

and more importantly, MJ's bulls took the long & winding road ...(ie: broke up)

that lakers team sucked....but they sucked less than everyone else in the league ...

and of course, shaq was allowed to steamroll opponents under the basket...that kinda helped a bit :p

Hey Wretch . . . I think you've found JCC's second favorite sport!
Title: Re: Joe Torre is the most overrated manager in sports history.
Post by: Chris_ on April 30, 2008, 04:05:11 PM: Quote from: john c calhoun on April 30, 2008, 03:56:00 PM
Quote from: freedumb2003 on April 30, 2008, 03:15:32 PM
Quote from: john c calhoun on April 30, 2008, 02:54:37 PM
Quote from: freedumb2003 on April 30, 2008, 09:29:37 AM
He can only get to #2 -- he has to get in line behind Phil Jackson.

yeah, Jacksons bulls really went far after MJ left eh ?? ....

I think you may have even filled jacksons shoes while MJ was on the team... :lmao:
You might notice he was able to win with both Shaq and Kobe on the court together. After that -- meh.

If the Lakers go deep this year., it will be because of Gasol playing as Kobe's Pippin.

Great talent wins games -- who'd a thunk it?

and more importantly, MJ's bulls took the long & winding road ...(ie: broke up)

that lakers team sucked....but they sucked less than everyone else in the league ...

and of course, shaq was allowed to steamroll opponents under the basket...that kinda helped a bit :p

Oh come on -- everyone in the league got free shots at Shaq. If the refs enforced the rules as written, every single player in the NBA would have been assessed intentional fouls and their teams in foul trouble inside the 1st quarter.
Title: Re: Joe Torre is the most overrated manager in sports history.
Post by: john c calhoun on April 30, 2008, 04:06:33 PM: Quote from: freedumb2003 on April 30, 2008, 04:05:11 PM
Quote from: john c calhoun on April 30, 2008, 03:56:00 PM
Quote from: freedumb2003 on April 30, 2008, 03:15:32 PM
Quote from: john c calhoun on April 30, 2008, 02:54:37 PM
Quote from: freedumb2003 on April 30, 2008, 09:29:37 AM
He can only get to #2 -- he has to get in line behind Phil Jackson.

yeah, Jacksons bulls really went far after MJ left eh ?? ....

I think you may have even filled jacksons shoes while MJ was on the team... :lmao:
You might notice he was able to win with both Shaq and Kobe on the court together. After that -- meh.

If the Lakers go deep this year., it will be because of Gasol playing as Kobe's Pippin.

Great talent wins games -- who'd a thunk it?

and more importantly, MJ's bulls took the long & winding road ...(ie: broke up)

that lakers team sucked....but they sucked less than everyone else in the league ...

and of course, shaq was allowed to steamroll opponents under the basket...that kinda helped a bit :p

Oh come on -- everyone in the league got free shots at Shaq. If the refs enforced the rules as written, every single player in the NBA would have been assessed intentional fouls and their teams in foul trouble inside the 1st quarter.

did shaq even notice ??...its like he was swatting flies :lmao:

but hey, MJ got a pass too....but at least he actually played a game that more resembled basketball
Title: Re: Joe Torre is the most overrated manager in sports history.
Post by: Chris_ on April 30, 2008, 06:04:42 PM: Quote from: john c calhoun on April 30, 2008, 04:06:33 PM

did shaq even notice ??...its like he was swatting flies :lmao:

but hey, MJ got a pass too....but at least he actually played a game that more resembled basketball

I don't think MJ was called for traveling ever in his career. He is the only person that could take it from the top of his key to a slam dunk at the other side of the court with exactly one dribble bounce.

If by "resembled" you mean "created the idea that fundamentals don't count" -- sure.

And Shaq still had to put up with the hits -- which is why he has been so bad the last few years. He is as beaten up as a Detroit Lions' QB.
Title: Re: Joe Torre is the most overrated manager in sports history.
Post by: Wretched Excess on April 30, 2008, 07:22:37 PM: Quote from: BlueStateSaint on April 30, 2008, 04:03:44 PM
Quote from: john c calhoun on April 30, 2008, 03:56:00 PM
Quote from: freedumb2003 on April 30, 2008, 03:15:32 PM
Quote from: john c calhoun on April 30, 2008, 02:54:37 PM
Quote from: freedumb2003 on April 30, 2008, 09:29:37 AM
He can only get to #2 -- he has to get in line behind Phil Jackson.

yeah, Jacksons bulls really went far after MJ left eh ?? ....

I think you may have even filled jacksons shoes while MJ was on the team... :lmao:
You might notice he was able to win with both Shaq and Kobe on the court together. After that -- meh.

If the Lakers go deep this year., it will be because of Gasol playing as Kobe's Pippin.

Great talent wins games -- who'd a thunk it?

and more importantly, MJ's bulls took the long & winding road ...(ie: broke up)

that lakers team sucked....but they sucked less than everyone else in the league ...

and of course, shaq was allowed to steamroll opponents under the basket...that kinda helped a bit :p

Hey Wretch . . . I think you've found JCC's second favorite sport!

accusing referees of collusion and conspiracies? I think that's actually his favorite hobby. :uhsure: :whatever: :-)
Title: Re: Joe Torre is the most overrated manager in sports history.
Post by: john c calhoun on May 01, 2008, 11:44:05 AM: Quote from: Wretched Excess on April 30, 2008, 07:22:37 PM
Quote from: BlueStateSaint on April 30, 2008, 04:03:44 PM
Quote from: john c calhoun on April 30, 2008, 03:56:00 PM
Quote from: freedumb2003 on April 30, 2008, 03:15:32 PM
Quote from: john c calhoun on April 30, 2008, 02:54:37 PM
Quote from: freedumb2003 on April 30, 2008, 09:29:37 AM
He can only get to #2 -- he has to get in line behind Phil Jackson.

yeah, Jacksons bulls really went far after MJ left eh ?? ....

I think you may have even filled jacksons shoes while MJ was on the team... :lmao:
You might notice he was able to win with both Shaq and Kobe on the court together. After that -- meh.

If the Lakers go deep this year., it will be because of Gasol playing as Kobe's Pippin.

Great talent wins games -- who'd a thunk it?

and more importantly, MJ's bulls took the long & winding road ...(ie: broke up)

that lakers team sucked....but they sucked less than everyone else in the league ...

and of course, shaq was allowed to steamroll opponents under the basket...that kinda helped a bit :p

Hey Wretch . . . I think you've found JCC's second favorite sport!

accusing referees of collusion and conspiracies? I think that's actually his favorite hobby. :uhsure: :whatever: :-)

yeah & the finally caught some in the NBA eh ?? :naughty:

now, if the FEDS would start investigating tEh colts & cowboys..... yeah, thats the ticket !! :hyper: