The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: zeitgeist on September 08, 2011, 12:16:18 PM
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I grabbed this entire thread because I felt it might be purged and it was short:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4988304
Omaha Steve (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-08-11 12:38 PM
Original message
Longshoremen storm Wash. port over labor dispute (overpowered and held 6 security guards)
Edited on Thu Sep-08-11 12:41 PM by Omaha Steve
Source: AP-Excite
LONGVIEW, Wash. (AP) - Hundreds of Longshoremen stormed the Port of Longview early Thursday, overpowered and held security guards, damaged railroad cars, and dumped grain that is the center of a labor dispute, said Longview Police Chief Jim Duscha.
Six guards were held hostage for a couple of hours after 500 or more Longshoremen broke down gates about 4:30 a.m. and smashed windows in the guard shack, he said.
No one was hurt, and nobody has been arrested. Most of the protesters returned to their union hall after cutting brake lines and spilling grain from car at the EGT terminal, Duscha said.
The International Longshore and Warehouse Union believes it has the right to work at the facility, but the company has hired a contractor that's staffing a workforce of other union laborers.
Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20110908/D9PKE0CG2.htm...
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A union worker blocks a grain train in Longview, Wash., Wednesday, Sept. 7, 2011. Longshoremen blocked the train as part of an escalating dispute about labor at the EGT grain terminal at the Port of Longview.(AP Photo/Don Ryan)
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elleng (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-08-11 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. Good to see this, and remember there are/were some here who WOULD physically protest.
Its uncommon among most.
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DeSwiss (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-08-11 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. GENERAL STRIKE
All over the world.
- That's when we'll have their attention and only then......
K&R
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patrice (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-08-11 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
3. Goodness and Light be with these Workers and bring them Economic Justice!
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Captain Lee (13 posts) Thu Sep-08-11 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
4. Counter-productive at best, dumbass more likely
From the article: "The International Longshore and Warehouse Union believes it has the right to work at the facility, but the company has hired a contractor that's staffing a workforce of other union laborers."
So, it's not a union versus non-union fight, it's a 'my union' versus 'the other union' fight.
Hostage taking? Are you f'ing kidding me? Way to rally public support. Thank God the security guards were unarmed or 'exercised restraint'. Personally, I hope the organizers are arrested and charged with kidnapping. Domestic terrorism is NOT acceptable by ANY side.
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Oh Captain, my Captain. I see a granite pizza coming for you!! :rotf:
SoapBox (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-08-11 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. Bravo!
...and I can't help but contrast how these folks have to act to get a voice heard, compared to this article:
"Michigan Protesters Against Hate Pastor Terry Jones Were ***Told By Police To Keep Their Voices Down***"
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/09/08/314384/mic... /
At every turn, we are being suppressed, screwed, ordered around and held down.
Vote America...for gawd's sake, vote!
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zogofzorkon (231 posts) Thu Sep-08-11 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
6. Return to the roots, it wasn't accomodating, bending over, or caving that
brought better conditions for all workers.
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DU AdBot (1000+ posts)
Union thugs take hostages ? :thatsright:
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"Physically protest". No, DUmmie, your wordplay does not legitimize criminal activity. Assault is assault no matter how you try to spin it.
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Okay, question.
Most of the protesters returned to their union hall after cutting brake lines and spilling grain from car at the EGT terminal, Duscha said.
Wouldn't this be a crime, malicious destruction?
Or perhaps it would be okay with my fellow Nebraskan if some larking teenagers in Bellevue late at night cut the electrical wires to his house, just for the fun of it?
One can't have it both ways; both are either wrong, or okay with Omaha Steve.
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zogofzorkon (231 posts) Thu Sep-08-11 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
6. Return to the roots, it wasn't accomodating, bending over, or caving that
brought better conditions for all workers.
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I agree. Let the company bring in some Pinkertons to crack some heads.
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It's still there. Here's another noob;
boomerone (10 posts) Thu Sep-08-11 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. You said it the best. It will soon be time to get our shovels, rakes
and picks out and begin our own assaults. If this is not done, we will be made slaves.
You know damn well you don't own any of these tools of actual work. Even yard work. Rakes? :rotf:
Is that a mole?
Hoopla Phil (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-08-11 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
10. I don't see one union protesting that a different union got the contract as
a good thing. This can quickly turn into union vs. union violence.
Yep. A thug is a thug.
Here's what Captain Lee said in defense of himself:
bongbong (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-08-11 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. History?
Wingnuts like the captain don't need history. They get their ideas from their gut (usually sizable), and hate-radio.
Captain Lee (14 posts) Thu Sep-08-11 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. That was uncalled for
Edited on Thu Sep-08-11 01:49 PM by Captain Lee
WTH? That was uncivil of you. Where do you find anything I wrote to be the product of either my gut or the radio (which is mostly tuned to NPR, thank you very much).
Read the entire article, then google related articles. I think what I wrote is very clear and accurate.
Is it okay to have Tea Party folks storm a town hall and hold people hostage? If not, it's not okay in this instance either. If it is, carry on then. Forget I said anything.
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Captain Lee (14 posts) Thu Sep-08-11 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. That was uncalled for
Edited on Thu Sep-08-11 01:49 PM by Captain Lee
WTH? That was uncivil of you. Where do you find anything I wrote to be the product of either my gut or the radio (which is mostly tuned to NPR, thank you very much).
Read the entire article, then google related articles. I think what I wrote is very clear and accurate.
Is it okay to have Tea Party folks storm a town hall and hold people hostage? If not, it's not okay in this instance either. If it is, carry on then. Forget I said anything.
Mole, and not a very good one either. Should have used the phrase "Teabaggers" to deflect attention. I think I hear chisels being sharpened.
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2. GENERAL STRIKE
All over the world.
- That's when we'll have their attention and only then......
What % of the US is union? 11.9%? And you'd better not strike during the summer, because the screwal teachers are already not working. A third of that 11.9% is government workers, and I wish they'd strike for the next 50 years. So how, again, would we notice a general strike, DUmbass?
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2. GENERAL STRIKE
All over the world.
What % of the US is union? 11.9%? And you'd better not strike during the summer, because the screwal teachers are already not working. A third of that 11.9% is government workers, and I wish they'd strike for the next 50 years. So how, again, would we notice a general strike, DUmbass?
in 2010 there were 14.7 union members in the us INFO (http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/union2.pdf)
there are 14 million unemployed INFO (http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm) (i realize there are more unemployed/underemployed that are not part of these stats)
lets do a 14 million person swap.
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The guy who posted GENERAL STRIKE followed it with a bunch of picture of strikes. These were very old photos, illustrating just how irrelevant unions are today.
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Okay, question.
Wouldn't this be a crime, malicious destruction?
Or perhaps it would be okay with my fellow Nebraskan if some larking teenagers in Bellevue late at night cut the electrical wires to his house, just for the fun of it?
One can't have it both ways; both are either wrong, or okay with Omaha Steve.
FDR saw to it that it wouldn't be a problem:
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
Sixty years after the rise of organized labor's political machine during the New Deal, union officials remain the only class of citizens allowed, under federal law, to commit violence against their fellow citizens.
Under the U.S. Supreme Court's infamous Enmons decision, union officials may destroy property, assault employees, and even murder them, and escape prosecution under federal extortion laws, so long as such violence is undertaken to secure what the Supreme Court called "legitimate" objectives, such as wage increases.
{snip}
http://www.thelaborers.net/HISTORY/violence_union_privilege.htm
Don't that just make ya all damp and droopy Coach.
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The trouble is spreading...Seattle....Tacoma
http://tdn.com/news/state-and-regional/washington/article_c53ac622-da37-11e0-a6f1-001cc4c002e0.html
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The trouble is spreading...Seattle....Tacoma
http://tdn.com/news/state-and-regional/washington/article_c53ac622-da37-11e0-a6f1-001cc4c002e0.html
And wait until the word gets out about what a typical union longshoreman makes.
There is a reason why they bring container ships in south of the border, down Mexico way, to be unloaded.
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If you had to name a union that was even more notorious for corruption and criminal activity than the Teamsters, it would be the Longshoremen.
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If you had to name a union that was even more notorious for corruption and criminal activity than the Teamsters, it would be the Longshoremen.
Oh yeah, one of my fellow Nebraskan's personal heroes.
The Australian Harry Bridges.
I suppose he's been dead for a while now, though.
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The trouble is spreading...Seattle....Tacoma
http://tdn.com/news/state-and-regional/washington/article_c53ac622-da37-11e0-a6f1-001cc4c002e0.html
Some outlets are reporting longshormen from up and down the leftist coast are converging on Washington to join in the festivities.
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Some outlets are reporting longshormen from up and down the leftist coast are converging on Washington to join in the festivities.
It'll be like hunting a baited field.
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And wait until the word gets out about what a typical union longshoreman makes.
There is a reason why they bring container ships in south of the border, down Mexico way, to be unloaded.
This article mentions their wages, among other things~
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0903/is_n8_v9/ai_11195872/
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$70K? Try (more than) double that.
Problem is, good luck getting that without waiting for 20-30 years.
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$70K? Try (more than) double that.
Problem is, good luck getting that without waiting for 20-30 years.
I've been told that there's only 2 ways to get a job at the port of Charleston, S.C.. You're either born into the family or you marry into it.
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I've been told that there's only 2 ways to get a job at the port of Charleston, S.C.. You're either born into the family or you marry into it.
Utilities are a little better, but similar. Couple that with the very low (under 5 percent per year) turnover in a power plant or other electrical/gas utility, and you might as well be family. Both places I've worked since I've gotten out have had multiple generation employees--in a few cases, 3 generations at the same time.
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$70K? Try (more than) double that.
Problem is, good luck getting that without waiting for 20-30 years.
That article is ten years old.
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If the roles were reversed, wouldn't this be where the primitives would be proclaiming that Hoffa's call to "take out those SOB's" has incited his deranged followers to act violently? Yes, it would be.
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That article is ten years old.
I'm not the one who posted it. I knew a few guys who worked in Long Beach and LA. Holy crap, and I thought I was making out like a bandit when I was working 7-12's on a cutover.
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Utilities are a little better, but similar. Couple that with the very low (under 5 percent per year) turnover in a power plant or other electrical/gas utility, and you might as well be family. Both places I've worked since I've gotten out have had multiple generation employees--in a few cases, 3 generations at the same time.
30 years ago, I interviewed for a job with Duke Energy. The coal/hydro side was that way but in the nuclear side of the company, family wasn't allowed to work together. I was told that was government rules. I was offered a job but then it was rescinded when they discovered what my brother in law's job was.
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$70K? Try (more than) double that.
Problem is, good luck getting that without waiting for 20-30 years.
That article was from 20 years ago. Once I saw the $40-70k range, I thought "not today".
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Another thread on this,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1899967
Denninmi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Sep-08-11 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well, that will give the far right plenty of ammunition.
They're itching for any excuse to destroy unions.
Sucks when its demonstrated that "right wing talking points" are true, doesn't it? :rotf:
sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Sep-08-11 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. Why do we have to care about what the far right 'thinks'?
They don't think. They declared a war on workers, now they are getting what they asked for. I imagine they weren't expecting the 'other side' to fight back. Far from destroying Unions, they have only strengthened them by giving US the ammunition we needed to show how little they care about this Country.
If they can't take the heat, they should not have created it. This is what happens when you declare war on workers. Someone should have told them.
:whatever:
former9thward Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Sep-08-11 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #17
26. You did read this was one union against another didn't you?
Of course she didn't.
Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Sep-08-11 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
3. The RW morans have alreadt started the "UNION THUGS" crap.
:banghead:
Once again sucks when we are right, doesn't it?
badtoworse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Sep-08-11 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. How would you characterize them?
If not thugs, what are they?
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pintobean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Sep-08-11 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Frustrated and angry
They are losing their livelihood. That doesn't excuse their actions, but I understand their reasons.
So if 0bama wins and a bunch of teabaggers start vandalizing, will you understand their reasoning too? Of course we won't do that though, we leave that shit up to you goons.
badtoworse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Sep-08-11 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Hey, I belonged to a union once, but it didn't work out.
Edited on Thu Sep-08-11 04:37 PM by badtoworse
Early in my career, I belonged to AFSCME, DC 37. When the shop steward (or whatever he called himself) told me to slow down because I making the older guys look bad, I decided they weren't for me. I've done WAY better without a union than I ever would have as a union member.
pintobean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Sep-08-11 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. So, you have a negative view of unions based on a few words
spoken by one person from one local of one union. Brilliant.
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badtoworse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Sep-08-11 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. There's more to it than that.
I've had other experiences with unions that reinforce my negative opinion. I don't see any point in going into details - we wouldn't agree and I don't feel like getting into a pissing match.
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pintobean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Sep-08-11 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Then, maybe you should have kept your anti-union opinion to yourself
rather than scattering it around a Democratic message board.
Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Sep-08-11 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Solidarity!
Broderick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Sep-08-11 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. For which Union?
The one staffed at the place or the union destroying property and taking hostages?
:rotf:
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I'm not the one who posted it. I knew a few guys who worked in Long Beach and LA. Holy crap, and I thought I was making out like a bandit when I was working 7-12's on a cutover.
Sorry, twenty years old (Aug '91) my bad. I knew it was dated but I didn't realize it was that dated. Anyway my point was that these guys really don't have a legitimate gripe about pay as compared to what the average American s earning.
This is more current~
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_money_does_a_longshoreman_earn
If these guys force a shutdown of the west coast ports as they have done in the past when president Bush had to step in and order them back to work by invoking the Taft-Harley Act I don't see Soetoro doing the same. He won't let a good crisis go to waste. Like we saw with the BP spill I predict he will stall and stall and stall some more to allow the situation to become as blown out of proportion as possible and inflict as much damage generally on the economy as he can possibly get away with.
http://www.freedomworks.org/publications/the-stranglehold-on-american-commerce
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Sorry, twenty years old (Aug '91) my bad. I knew it was dated but I didn't realize it was that dated. Anyway my point was that these guys really don't have a legitimate gripe about pay as compared to what the average American s earning.
This is more current~
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_money_does_a_longshoreman_earn
If these guys force a shutdown of the west coast ports as they have done in the past when president Bush had to step in and order them back to work by invoking the Taft-Harley Act I don't see Soetoro doing the same. He won't let a good crisis go to waste. Like we saw with the BP spill I predict he will stall and stall and stall some more to allow the situation to become as blown out of proportion as possible and inflict as much damage generally on the economy as he can possibly get away with.
http://www.freedomworks.org/publications/the-stranglehold-on-american-commerce
I believe the container business began preparing for just such a shut down about ten years ago.
I didn't check your updated link but here is some info from ten years back when the West Coast Longshoreman made number eight on the top ten overpaid list:
8) West Coast Longshoremen
In early 2002, West Coast ports shut down when the longshoremen's union fought to preserve very generous healthcare benefits that would make most Americans drool. The union didn't demand wage hikes, because its members already were making a huge paycheck. West Coast dockworkers earn an average of $117,600 for handling cargo, according to the Pacific Maritime Association, their employer. Office clerks who log shipping records into computers will earn $139,000. Foremen who oversee the rank-and-file members will take home an average $177,000.
Unlike their East Coast counterparts, who compete directly with non-union ports in the South and Gulf of Mexico, the West Coast stevedores have a lock on Pacific ports. Given their rare monopoly, they can seriously disrupt commerce -- and command exorbitant wages, even though their work becomes more automated and less hazardous every year.
http://www.engineersalary.com/overpaid.asp
and for those interested in the reason for the NAFTA Superhighway...
Quietly but systematically, the Bush Administration is advancing the plan to build a huge NAFTA SuperHighway, four football-fields-wide, through the heart of the U.S. along Interstate 35, from the Mexican border at Laredo, Tex., to the Canadian border north of Duluth, Minn.
Once complete, the new road will allow containers from the Far East to enter the United States through the Mexican port of Lazaro Cardenas, bypassing the Longshoreman’s Union in the process. The Mexican trucks, without the involvement of the Teamsters Union, will drive on what will be the nation’s most modern highway straight into the heart of America. The Mexican trucks will cross border in FAST lanes, checked only electronically by the new “SENTRI†system. The first customs stop will be a Mexican customs office in Kansas City, their new Smart Port complex, a facility being built for Mexico at a cost of $3 million to the U.S. taxpayers in Kansas City.
{snip}
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=15497
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As a computer technician for a public school district, I was not allowed to transport computers from the schools to the repair center when they needed bench repair. Instead, we had to fill out a shipping order and wait. So instead of a repair that could have been completed within hours, or perhaps the next day, we had to wait for up to a week to get it to the bench, then wait for shipping again.
The result of this is teachers being unable to follow their lesson plans. Secretaries getting backlogged. Principals unable to play solitaire and minesweeper. And everybody looking at us like we had two heads. Finally, with three unions against one, we were allowed to do the moves, but we had to write up reports on why an ASAP move was required.
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As a computer technician for a public school district, I was not allowed to transport computers from the schools to the repair center when they needed bench repair. Instead, we had to fill out a shipping order and wait. So instead of a repair that could have been completed within hours, or perhaps the next day, we had to wait for up to a week to get it to the bench, then wait for shipping again.
The result of this is teachers being unable to follow their lesson plans. Secretaries getting backlogged. Principals unable to play solitaire and minesweeper. And everybody looking at us like we had two heads. Finally, with three unions against one, we were allowed to do the moves, but we had to write up reports on why an ASAP move was required.
Unbelievable. I do that for a private company and regularly drive between the main business office and the customer care center 15 miles away, usually 2-3 times a week. It's rare that I'm at the call center every day but if things break over there, I am obligated to show up within 24 hours.
We do have distributors and production plants that don't have on-site IT support, so I do a lot of shipping and make a lot of phone calls.
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Okay, question.
Wouldn't this be a crime, malicious destruction?
Of course it's a crime, but union thugs are pretty much immune from arrest while conducting their thuggery, due to their kinship with the Fraternal Order of Police. I've seen that with my own two beady eyes.
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Of course it's a crime, but union thugs are pretty much immune from arrest while conducting their thuggery, due to their kinship with the Fraternal Order of Police. I've seen that with my own two beady eyes.
Fixed it for you. No pretty much about it, it is written into labor law. Faternal orders of any type generally have a chilling effect from what I have seen, there is just no way around it, but, in the case of unions, they do have a special exemption as I posted earlier.
http://www.thelaborers.ne...lence_union_privilege.htm