The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Tucker on September 07, 2011, 10:10:49 AM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1885957
Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Tue Sep-06-11 01:43 PM
Original message
Rhode Island considers radical moves as pensions put state on brink
PROVIDENCE, R.I. — This state has barely a million residents, but it is at least $6.8 billion short when it comes to funding pension plans for retired teachers, police officers and other public employees.
State Treasurer Gina M. Raimondo (D) said that per capita, Rhode Island has the nation’s largest unfunded pension liability. But if the Ocean State’s pension problem is among the country’s most severe, so are the remedies being considered to solve it.
An ongoing pension reform effort is likely to result in reduced benefits for 51,000 public workers and retirees. Officials are pondering lowering retirement payments, replacing part of the guaranteed pensions with 401(k)-type accounts, and sharply reducing generous cost-of-living increases enjoyed by retirees. The Rhode Island legislature is expected to consider changes next month during a special session.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/rhode-is...
Where's the money?
Surely, when the benefit offers were being crafted someone sat down and computed -- Benefit Pay-Out Amount x Avg Retirement Age x Retiree Life Expectancy = Total Commitment cost
The money was there. The promises were made.
Where's the money?
Add one democrat politician to a public sector union and the results are predictable.
adigal (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Wed Sep-07-11 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
28. Pension managers put our funds in risky mortgages with their crony
friend on Wall Street.
Funny, I know two hedge fund managers from Wall Street, and they haven't sold their house in the Hamptons, and just bought another 6 million dollar apartment in NYC. Funny.
Nothing like a little bouncy to add flavor to the tale.
hack89 (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Tue Sep-06-11 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. The unions actually played a huge role in this debacle.
there is no state in America where unions hold as much power as they do in Rhode Island. Not only can you not get elected without union support, but union officials are well represented in legislative staffs and committees. They wield enormous power.
The price for their support has always been generous benefits for their workers. Many politicians gave them what they wanted with no thought for the consequences. Those same politicians then consistently neglected to fund those pension funds at adequate levels because the cost was too high and they needed to fund other services.
This problem was not caused by the recent economic meltdown - this problem was recognized over a decade ago. It was simply ignored.
Now we are between a rock and a hard place. To adequately fund all promised benefits would gut every other government service - education, senior care, people with disabilities, mass transit. There is simply not enough money to go around.
Dirty freeper troll.
marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Tue Sep-06-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. ........
http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/9/9/991fd_ORIG-UnbelievableBullshitAirplaneIIAnimated.gif
hack89 (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Tue Sep-06-11 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. I live here - we have a well deserved reputation for corruption. nt
mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Tue Sep-06-11 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. then the money WAS there-- they just spent it on other things....
As usual, the real problem is poor fiscal planning and what OUGHT to be criminal negligence. Pension funds are ultimately generated by working people-- labor creates capital. Instead of investing that money where they promised to invest it-- that promise is part of the arrangement whereby working people create the capital in the first place-- the rat bastards used it to pay for other stuff, profits for investors, outrageous compensation for executives, and so on. The money was always there. They stole it from workers.
Er, Sorry! Public sector labor generates zero capital.
hack89 (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Tue Sep-06-11 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. No - the money was used for a massive increase in state spending
I also suspect you have no idea just how much power the unions have in RI - they are the bedrock of Democratic political dominance in the state. There is no state in America where the workers have more power.
And this is the model you want for the rest of the country?
Broderick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Tue Sep-06-11 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
14. But we are all distracted in Wisconsin
The waters were tested, the resources lavished in Wisconsin and other states are cruising forward in draconian fashion to destroy workers rights all across the nation. Illinois set to lay off how many workers? The list is innumerable. We are screwed.
Only liberal Mecca's are screwed.
hack89 (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Wed Sep-07-11 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #18
29. So you propose ignoring the problem for another decade or so?
the pensions have to be funded - it is cheaper to do it now rather than later. Promised benefits can't be funded out of current year operating budgets - there is not enough money. If the money is not invested and allowed to grow there will never be enough money.
There are 155 pension funds in RI - here is detailed coverage with all the facts you would need.
http://www.projo.com/news/pensions/
WOW!!!! I see a default in the near future.
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WOW!!!! I see a default in the near future.
I see bailout unfortunately.
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WOW!!!! I see a default in the near future.
I see a granite cookie in hack89's future if he doesn't knock off that common sense thing.
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I see bailout unfortunately.
Unless the make-up of the house changes, it ain't gonna happen.
What I see is a 50 cents on the dollar reduction.
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How long will Hack89 last?
Who is this Broderick douchebag who's popped up all of a sudden?
Will Mike_c ever do anything besides talk out of his ass?
:popcorn:
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More Unicorns NOT delivered on time.
Just wait until the truth about calpers and calters comes out. These funds have been basing their funds on 8-10% investment growth like we had right at the end of the dotcom bust.
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hack89 (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Tue Sep-06-11 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. No - the money was used for a massive increase in state spending
I also suspect you have no idea just how much power the unions have in RI - they are the bedrock of Democratic political dominance in the state. There is no state in America where the workers have more power.
The fate that awaits all, should the Dems and their NLRB attack dog get their way...yet the DUmmies are too stupid to think it through.
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Will Mike_c ever do anything besides talk out of his ass?
I call mike_c "Meathead" due to his situation and aesthetic being remarkably similar to Mike Stivic. I wish it would catch on.
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How long will Hack89 last?
Who is this Broderick douchebag who's popped up all of a sudden?
Will Mike_c ever do anything besides talk out of his ass?
:popcorn:
~In his best announcer voice~
The answes to these and other questions when we return to our story "As the stomach turns" but first this brief commercial interlude:
(http://www.politifake.org/image/political/1102/look-for-the-union-label-greedy-government-workers-political-poster-1298062180.jpg)
(I was going to insert the Barron's article on the worst managed states but couldn't seem to find it. Maybe later.
ETA: Managed to fine link:
http://online.barrons.com/article/SB50001424052702303545104576524533718027022.html#articleTabs_panel_article%3D1
May require a login (bugmenot.com might have one )