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Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: GCBill on August 22, 2011, 01:42:47 PM

Title: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: GCBill on August 22, 2011, 01:42:47 PM
Quote
steve2470 Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Sun Aug-21-11 01:08 PM
Original message
Thought experiment: Lenin in Russia in 1918
   
What would you do, if you were Vladimir Ilyich Lenin in 1918, to make socialism or Communism succeed in Russia on a long-term basis ?

What if Batman and Robocop got in a fistfight? What if you could build a rocket ship to Mars out of bread bag ties, leftover spaghetti, and a can of Aquanet?

Quote
nadinbrzezinski
Sun Aug-21-11 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. Listen to Trotsky and eliminate Stalin
   
that be a good first step

Listen to Trotsky, realize he is as full of **it, and THEN eliminate him as well?

Quote
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Sun Aug-21-11 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #98
99. As somebody who has been deep in readying political economy
   
I understand that Sweden can be a socialist state and NOT be a marxist state. You don't.

I also understand that by a modern definition of SOCIALISM both Smith and Ricardo are socialists...

I also get it, Americans for the most part do not get this.

I also understand Americans do not understand that Marxism is NOT the only form of socialism.

Or that it precedes Marx.

Or that we had a FORM of it in the 1950s... we were very close in form to a social democracy.

But you keep trying... right now people in this country realize NEO LIBERAL (Fascist) policies, do not benefit them, and as they look for OTHER ALTERNATIVES some will discover the PANOPLY of forms of socialism... and also that a very well regulated market place, which is very CAPITALIST< but anathema to neo liberals. No, a regulated market is not a centrally planned economy before you throw that canard at me.

Have a very good day... you really need to read Smith by the way... and I mean this, READ IT.


So Nutty Nadin is a suporter of Adam Smith now?

Quote

nomb (537 posts)
Sun Aug-21-11 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #99
101. Well, I guess claiming Adam Smith as a Socialist and the USA as a "form of it" means Marxism won.
   
I guess I'll just continue to disagree until some future Marxist of your fantasy gains power and sends an agent of the State over to my house to shoot me.


Quote
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Sun Aug-21-11 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #101
102. Ah thanks for this
   
(http://mrmorganperiod1.wikispaces.com/file/view/0419-redscare.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/Come_unto_me,_ye_opprest.jpg/205px-Come_unto_me,_ye_opprest.jpg)
(http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAredscarebook6.jpg)

Thanks for showing what you are really afraid off.

Is that red baiting? Yep.

Quote
nomb (537 posts)
Sun Aug-21-11 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #102
109. Your dream killed 100 Million of my fellow man last century. Mao, Castro, Pol Pot, Stalin, Kim Il-su

We have a winner! Somebody understands what socialism is best at!

Quote
stevenumbers Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Sun Aug-21-11 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
40. my thoughts so far:
   
1- No violence whatsoever for any reason.
2- Retain the Constituent Assembly
3- Remove Stalin from any associations with the movement
4- Listen carefully to Rosa Luxemburg
5- Build popular support amongst the people with honest information
6- Adhere to democratic principles at all costs
7- Disband any attempts at any Cheka or secret police
8- Strongly encourage industrial development

If they are going to do everything the OPPOSITE of whet they did, they never would have lasted. No violence, no secret police, honest information? Those bloodthirsty savages were incapable of that.
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: Chris_ on August 22, 2011, 01:48:05 PM
Quote
steve2470 Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Sun Aug-21-11 01:08 PM
Original message
Thought experiment: Lenin in Russia in 1918
   
What would you do, if you were Vladimir Ilyich Lenin in 1918, to make socialism or Communism succeed in Russia on a long-term basis ?
I've read this story.  Everyone dies at the end.
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff68/kayaktn/CosmoDNA1.jpg)
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: jukin on August 22, 2011, 01:50:31 PM
Hate to break it to you DUmb, DUmbasses but by it's inherent nature communism/socialism/fascism (the same collectivist ideology with faint differences in flavor) will cause misery but spread around better and the death of tens of millions of innocents. Collectivist ideologies will always take the human condition back generations.
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: GOBUCKS on August 22, 2011, 01:53:32 PM
Quote
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Sun Aug-21-11 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #98
I also understand that by a modern definition of SOCIALISM both Smith and Ricardo are socialists...

I also get it, Americans for the most part do not get this.
If Ricardo is a socialist, then Lucy has a lot of 'splainin' to do.

Aren't you just grateful that nutcase nadin has such patience with stupid Murkins?

And that she is totally, absolutely oblivious to what an offensive, arrogant, condescending, ignorant bag of hot air she is? A de facto idiot.

You have to sort of pity the poor DUmbasses who are afraid of her, especially the few who have enough intelligence to sense her condescension.
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: Chris_ on August 22, 2011, 01:55:14 PM
What a bossy old cow.

Quote
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Sun Aug-21-11 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #98
99. As somebody who has been deep in readying political economy
   
I understand that Sweden can be a socialist state and NOT be a marxist state. You don't.

**** you, Nads.
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: JohnnyReb on August 22, 2011, 02:01:43 PM
I would shoot Stalin, Trotsky and then myself.... :-)

Hey, killing was what it was all about wasn't it?
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: FreeBorn on August 22, 2011, 02:04:41 PM
Quote from: JohnnyReb on August 22, 2011, 02:01:43 PM
I would shoot Stalin, Trotsky and then myself.... :-)

Hey, killing was what it was all about wasn't it?
Damn, beat me to it, Johnny!
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: Karin on August 22, 2011, 02:08:44 PM
Regarding Sweden, Nadin says:

Quote
nadinbrzezinski  (1000+ posts)         Sun Aug-21-11 02:04 PM
Original message
Oh for ****s face they consider themselves a socialist state
:rotf:

DUmp Link (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1784014)  There's the link, I didn't see it up there.  It's a pretty big fire.  Muriel Volestrangler smacks Nadin.  

Nadin is extra arrogant in that thread, a real bitch.  She's been going around the internet saying that Adam Smith was a Commie.  She keeps repeating it. 
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: DefiantSix on August 22, 2011, 02:13:36 PM
Quote
steve2470 Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Sun Aug-21-11 01:08 PM
Original message
Thought experiment: Lenin in Russia in 1918
   
What would you do, if you were Vladimir Ilyich Lenin in 1918, to make socialism or Communism succeed in Russia on a long-term basis ?

Jay-zeus!!!  This is like asking a two-year old what he could do to personally pay off the national debt in 5 years.  The biggest difference between V.I. Lenin and the moron mob on Skinner's Island of Misfit ****-ups is that Vlad put down the bong and got out of mommy's basement once in a while.  These shitheads would need some strong-stomached paramedics to surgically remove their asses from the computer chair.
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: GCBill on August 22, 2011, 02:17:56 PM
Quote from: Karin on August 22, 2011, 02:08:44 PM
Regarding Sweden, Nadin says:
 :rotf:

DUmp Link (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1784014)  There's the link, I didn't see it up there.  It's a pretty big fire.  Muriel Volestrangler smacks Nadin.  

Nadin is extra arrogant in that thread, a real bitch.  She's been going around the internet saying that Adam Smith was a Commie.  She keeps repeating it. 

Thanks for throwing the link on. Maybe it's time for a break from the DUmp - Grovelbot IS eating my brain!
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: delilahmused on August 22, 2011, 02:19:05 PM
Ok, don't we now have to add an expert on Socialism/Communism to her resume? Or financial theory or something since America had it in the 50's without even knowing it. Bet even DUmmies enjoy the Nadin expert thread.

Cindie
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: ChuckJ on August 22, 2011, 02:55:24 PM
Quote from: delilahmused on August 22, 2011, 02:19:05 PM
Ok, don't we now have to add an expert on Socialism/Communism to her resume? Or financial theory or something since America had it in the 50's without even knowing it. Bet even DUmmies enjoy the Nadin expert thread.

Cindie

Her resume as becoming kind of like the DUmp version of Chuck Norris Facts.
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: Karin on August 22, 2011, 02:59:53 PM
Quote
nomb (539 posts)      Sun Aug-21-11 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #71
96. Castro's Cuba starved the people for years recently in order to feed the military and Elite.
Quote
tama (1000+ posts)     Sun Aug-21-11 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #96
135. Don't know about that
 but I know that when the special period happened with soviet collapse and Cuba practically lost all access to oil, nobody starved to death, health and education systems did not collapse, the country made u-turn to small scale organic and sustainable farming and people adopted a healthier diet of mostly veggies and little meat.

Fainting in the fields from lack of protein.  This is why I hate liberal moonbats like this.  Look at that justification.  They may have been a little hungry, but that's just dieting for a healthy lifestyle! 

**** You. 

Interesting read, watching the commies come out of the woodwork. 
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: DumbAss Tanker on August 22, 2011, 03:33:27 PM
Knocking off the psychotic Stalin in favor of Trotsky would certainly have been amusing, but probably just as lethal for the Soviets in the 20s and 30s.  In addition to an equally bad outcome for collectivization, rather than Stalin's cynical, calculated and highly randomized terror, there would have been a Reign of Terror much like that in post-revolution France, driven by sincere Communists rooting out all vestiges of nonconforming thought even more ruthlessly than Stalin did.  Brutal pig of a man that he was, Stalin killed and enslaved to gain uncontestable power, so there was a limit (A very big one) to how far even he would go.  A Trotskyite regime would have been driven to the same excesses in the name of honest ideological purity, which really knows no bounds.
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: Karin on August 22, 2011, 03:41:40 PM
Quote
TBF  (1000+ posts)         Mon Aug-22-11 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #176
202. ... I'm willing to negotiate to get rid of capitalism,

Oh you are, are you?   How generous and kind of you.  Go to hell, commie. 

My hat's off to Imajika over there, for fighting the good fight against the red tide.  She may be a DUmmie, but she is no communist, and her arguments were clear and forceful. 
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: GOBUCKS on August 22, 2011, 03:49:42 PM
Nutcase nadin is on a roll:
Quote
nadinbrzezinski  (1000+ posts)         Sun Aug-21-11 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #93
94. Did I say Marxist> No, I said SOCIALIST
go back to school. They do not mean the exact same thing... and no, I will not take the time to teach you.
 


Quote
nadinbrzezinski  (1000+ posts)         Sun Aug-21-11 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #149
151. I now understand you really have no fracking clue
what you are talking about.



Quote
nadinbrzezinski  (1000+ posts)         Sun Aug-21-11 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #158
162. No, not even close
you really need to go take those basic courses



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nadinbrzezinski  (1000+ posts)         Mon Aug-22-11 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #198
204. If that is what you take
you really need need to get your head out of the sand...

Go take some classes, you really need to

 

Quote
nomb (539 posts)      Mon Aug-22-11 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #207
209. Your arrogant condescending attitude reminds one of a Political Officer who alone holds the "Truth"

  
 
Quote
nadinbrzezinski  (1000+ posts)         Mon Aug-22-11 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #209
211. Asking you to go take a course is condescending?
WOW!!!!!



Quote
nadinbrzezinski  (1000+ posts)         Mon Aug-22-11 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #196
205. THE SDP IS A SOCIALIST PARTY
one of the oldest in fact.. JAYSUS you are really THAT FRACKING IGNORANT?



Quote
nadinbrzezinski  (1000+ posts)         Mon Aug-22-11 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #208
210. My lord you are still that ignorant

I'm beginning to lose my affection for know-it-all nadin.

Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: Chris_ on August 22, 2011, 03:51:36 PM
She seems a little unstable.
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: JohnnyReb on August 22, 2011, 03:53:21 PM
....and I thought I had known some know-it-alls.....sheeeesh.
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: delilahmused on August 22, 2011, 04:17:56 PM
Quote
nadinbrzezinski  (1000+ posts)         Mon Aug-22-11 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #196
205. THE SDP IS A SOCIALIST PARTY
one of the oldest in fact.. JAYSUS you are really THAT FRACKING IGNORANT?

Yeah, cuz what a communist dictator calls his one party government is exactly what it is. That's why Democratic People's Republic of Korea is such a paradise everyone is flocking there. Heck so many people want in they have to strictly control their borders...oh wait.

Cindie
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: DumbAss Tanker on August 22, 2011, 04:24:32 PM
Quote from: chris_ on August 22, 2011, 03:51:36 PM
She seems a little unstable.

She just needs the warmth and affection of a good heavy duty battery-powered device to level her out.  Too much to ask of any guy to take one for the team on that score, I'm afraid.
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: Erasmus on August 22, 2011, 04:27:41 PM
Socialism, Marxism,  blah blah blah...  very fine lines indeed, and both destined to failure.  Attitude toward property rights might differ slightly, as well as what one does with undesired portions of the population, but in large, they're two peas in the same pod.
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: Duke Nukum on August 22, 2011, 04:43:25 PM
The DUmmies believe in reincarnation, I'm sure at least 50% of them were Lenin in a previous incarnation.
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: Carl on August 22, 2011, 04:49:48 PM
Quote
stevenumbers Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Sun Aug-21-11 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
40. my thoughts so far:
   
1- No violence whatsoever for any reason.
2- Retain the Constituent Assembly
3- Remove Stalin from any associations with the movement
4- Listen carefully to Rosa Luxemburg
5- Build popular support amongst the people with honest information
6- Adhere to democratic principles at all costs
7- Disband any attempts at any Cheka or secret police
8- Strongly encourage industrial development

I love this little list of idiocy.

Marxism is not possible given human nature so will always morph to communism which requires authoritarian rule,violence and brutal enforcement.

Btw steve,leftism of any variety can`t ever stand the test of honesty,you have to lie to suck people in.
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: USA4ME on August 22, 2011, 04:50:58 PM
Quote from:
steve2470

Thought experiment: Lenin in Russia in 1918
  
What would you do, if you were Vladimir Ilyich Lenin in 1918, to make socialism or Communism succeed in Russia on a long-term basis ?

I'm sure the Russians appreciate kook anti-American trash discussing what they would have done if they were Lenin to ensure the lives of all Soviet citizens would be miserable for hundreds and hundreds of years.

.
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: Wineslob on August 22, 2011, 05:15:17 PM
Quote
tama (1000+ posts)     Sun Aug-21-11 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #96
135. Don't know about that
 but I know that when the special period happened with soviet collapse and Cuba practically lost all access to oil, nobody starved to death, health and education systems did not collapse, the country made u-turn to small scale organic and sustainable farming and people adopted a healthier diet of mostly veggies and little meat.




I love these teary eyed Socialists.

Watch No Reservations, Cuba. As much as Tony Bourdain attempted to shine a positive light on the country, the decay and rot of Socialism has destroyed it.The lovers of baseball have a wonderful stadium to go watch their teams in. Just don't mind the fact that none of the lights for night games work anymore. Don't bother worrying that half the roof is gone, no bother, it's a tropical paradise!

Wanna work? There's tons of foreign restaurants opening up, but if you are Cuban, you have no hope of EVER eating in one. You, comrade, can't afford it.

Be like Tony. Those half falling down buildings? Call them beautiful, but don't mind the gaping holes in them.

While the spirit of the Cuban People is alive and well, Castro has done a bang up job of turning it into a shit hole.

Oh, BTW, Bourdain NEVER left Havana, I wonder why? 
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: Skul on August 22, 2011, 06:21:06 PM
Quote from: DumbAss Tanker on August 22, 2011, 04:24:32 PM
She just needs the warmth and affection of a good heavy duty battery-powered device to level her out.  Too much to ask of any guy to take one for the team on that score, I'm afraid.
More likely, one with a "kick-starter".
One of these days, the DUmpmonkeys are going to gang-slap the scrunt.
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: GOBUCKS on August 22, 2011, 07:35:34 PM
Quote
stevenumbers Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Sun Aug-21-11 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
40. my thoughts so far:
   
1- No violence whatsoever for any reason.
2- Retain the Constituent Assembly
3- Remove Stalin from any associations with the movement
4- Listen carefully to Rosa Luxemburg
5- Build popular support amongst the people with honest information
6- Adhere to democratic principles at all costs
7- Disband any attempts at any Cheka or secret police
8- Strongly encourage industrial development

Poor little stevenumbers. He's as expert with politics as he is with women.
Can you imagine Vladimir Lenin taking advice from stevenumbers?
It's like Adolf Hitler getting pointers from Charlie Brown.

But poor stupid little stevenumbers could serve a purpose.
You know, nutcase nadin is obviously not getting what she needs at home.
I'll bet she'd change her tune after a few sessions of hopping around with stevenumbers.
Lots of pent up demand going on there.
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: LC EFA on August 22, 2011, 08:01:33 PM
If *I* were Lenin ?

Well you can guarantee that my very first action would be to put all the proven traitors ; those being people who were only too happy to commit treason to bring me into power ; to death.

A dog which has demonstrated its willingness to bite the hand that feeds it must be destroyed.

DUmmies - This means you. Please form an orderly line on the wall over there. Blindfolds and cigarettes are available from the master of ceremonies.

Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: GOBUCKS on August 22, 2011, 08:23:59 PM
Quote from: LC EFA on August 22, 2011, 08:01:33 PM
Blindfolds and cigarettes are available from the master of ceremonies.
No cigarettes. Today's commies are big on living green.
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: DumbAss Tanker on August 22, 2011, 09:06:56 PM
Quote from: Skul on August 22, 2011, 06:21:06 PM
More likely, one with a "kick-starter".
One of these days, the DUmpmonkeys are going to gang-slap the scrunt.

The idea of cobbling together something suitable from a Husqvarna 455 Rancher chainsaw and the reciprocating parts from the engine of a 12' steam launch did cross my mind in this connection.
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: Chris_ on August 22, 2011, 09:13:35 PM
Quote from: DumbAss Tanker on August 22, 2011, 09:06:56 PM
The idea of cobbling together something suitable from a Husqvarna 455 Rancher chainsaw and the reciprocating parts from the engine of a 12' steam launch did cross my mind in this connection.
Maybe something self-lubricating.
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: DefiantSix on August 22, 2011, 09:20:04 PM
Quote from: chris_ on August 22, 2011, 09:13:35 PM
Maybe something self-lubricating.

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq1FNIGap-0[/youtube]
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: Chris_ on August 22, 2011, 09:22:17 PM
A high point in David Duchovny and Julianne Moore's careers. :rofl:
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: Duke Nukum on August 22, 2011, 09:40:23 PM
I just thought of a good question for the DUmmies: What if you were linen in 1918? What would your thread count be? Would you be spattered with Romanov blood? Would you have tried to conceal some of the crown jewels?
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: BlueStateSaint on August 23, 2011, 04:34:42 AM
Quote from: DumbAss Tanker on August 22, 2011, 04:24:32 PM
She just needs the warmth and affection of a good heavy duty battery-powered device to level her out.  Too much to ask of any guy to take one for the team on that score, I'm afraid.

You know, there are websites devoted to "****ing machines." :whistling: :naughty: O-) :tongue:
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: AprilRazz on August 23, 2011, 06:24:09 AM
Quote
tama (1000+ posts)     Sun Aug-21-11 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #96
135. Don't know about that
 but I know that when the special period happened with soviet collapse and Cuba practically lost all access to oil, nobody starved to death, health and education systems did not collapse, the country made u-turn to small scale organic and sustainable farming and people adopted a healthier diet of mostly veggies and little meat.
And if you actually talked to anyone that managed to escape from Cuba the story has a different ending. :bird:
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: Karin on August 23, 2011, 07:24:02 AM
Quote from: GOBUCKS on August 22, 2011, 08:23:59 PM
No cigarettes. Today's commies are big on living green.

Plus, they're way too expensive.  Austerity, you know.  No way can they bum one from me. 

That crack about the "healthier diet of veggies" really stuck in my craw.  She even gives it a cutesy-pie name.  I'd like to see her wrench a farm out of the earth with her bare hands with just a carrot in her belly.  Bitch.  I hope she's truly, truly hungry one day, digging for turnips like Scarlett.

 
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: Aristotelian on August 23, 2011, 10:15:45 AM
Simple answer - gather sufficient evidence of wrong-doing on the part of other party leaders, invite the Tsar back (giving him the evidence of who did what) then run away to have a quiet retirement far away from justice's reach.
Title: Re: What if YOU were Lenin?
Post by: GOBUCKS on August 23, 2011, 11:51:39 AM
Quote from: Karin on August 23, 2011, 07:24:02 AM
That crack about the "healthier diet of veggies" really stuck in my craw.  She even gives it a cutesy-pie name.  I'd like to see her wrench a farm out of the earth with her bare hands with just a carrot in her belly.  Bitch.  I hope she's truly, truly hungry one day, digging for turnips like Scarlett.

The only people with healthier diets than Cubans are the smiling, slender folks in North Korea.

Nothing's better for heart health than hay and dirt.