The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Vagabond on August 21, 2011, 09:23:01 PM
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My friends gotta a girlfriend and he hates that bitch! (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1787294)
nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Sun Aug-21-11 09:50 PM
Original message
So commies killed 100 million people in the course of the
Edited on Sun Aug-21-11 09:53 PM by nadinbrzezinski
20th century... yes, yes they did... so did Fascists...
So when somebody tells me that this is a good reason to avoid any lefty thought... I could use this as a rational to avoid neo liberalism.
History is really tricky that way... and some of the millions that died under fascist regimes died ON THIS CONTINENT, and we sponsored those regimes. It was part of the cold war... just liket he USSR sponsored some of those commie regimes that also committed crimes against humanity...
But if that is your rationale... really this is quite even in that statistic of horrors.
Leftists, communists, fascists, they all spout they same line of crap nadin. They would all be more than willing to kill you to make a point to the other proles. Of course, you think they would put you somewhere other than out in the cabbage fields like you deserve don't you, Nadin. Oh, and the government in the US isn't able to liquidate undesirables like communists or the fascists. There is a funny reason for that.
white_wolf (1000+ posts) Sun Aug-21-11 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'll take this a step further.
If you want to blame a nation's economic policy for all the deaths that nation has caused, then capitalism likely beats out socialism. How many have we killed through our imperialist wars, how many people have died at the hands of dictators we supported?
It wasn't the economic philosophy, it was the political philosophy the economic philosophy led to. Communism and fascism can only exist in a centrally controlled police state. The US isn't quite yet.
nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Sun Aug-21-11 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. actually we are even steven on that one
Edited on Sun Aug-21-11 09:56 PM by nadinbrzezinski
The Cold war was a series of proxy wars fought by both sides. There might be a difference of a million or two, but really at those numbers, it really does not matter.
Oh and internally the Gulags kiled about 70 million people... but those were police state tactics continuing from the Tsarist regime... so the Cheka was terrible, so what the Tsarist secret police. Heck the HQ was the same and many of the early personnel were the same.
Yep. If one side pushes a little old lady in front of a bus and the other side pushes her out of the way of the bus, they are both the same because they both pushed her. **** you, Nadine.
white_wolf (1000+ posts) Sun Aug-21-11 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Oh and the 100 million number is likely inflated.
The people who started the 100 million meme often count the deaths caused by WWII and the various famines as deaths caused by communism. This ignores the fact that Russia had trouble with famine throughout it's history as did China.
The state in both of those countries caused and used famines for political purposes. Hell, Stalin used the cover of WWII to conduct mass purges. Just because they died in a famine or war doesn't mean the state didn't cause it. Or as your messiah might say, "Never let a crisis go to waste."
nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Sun Aug-21-11 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. No I am including the Gulags here
the number are around 60-70 million... and that does include WW II... that was 40 million, But for example many Red Army troops that came back from POW camps went straight to the Gulags.
But, but, I thought the communists and socialists welcomed all their heroic troops home with open arms. Maybe they just didn't want them to realize that life in a Nazi prison camp wasn't all that much worse than in Soviet Russia.
ileus (1000+ posts) Sun Aug-21-11 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
5. eh...carbon footprints.
Imagine how bad global warming would be with the generations of those 100 million.
The ends justifies the means, eh comrade. To the audience: And they think we're savages.
nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Sun Aug-21-11 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. 100 million in a population of 7 billion is a drop in a bucket
really.
See, see. Even if our ideology killed them, it really wasn't so much...to us.
Drale (1000+ posts) Sun Aug-21-11 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
7. As far as I'm concerned the Communist leaders in Russia, China etc...
where right wing dictators using the idea of Communism to get the people to do what they wanted.
That is why they were recognized by communists the world over as communists, socialists, and fellow travelers.
Justifying mass murder. That's a new low for Nadine.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Donate to DU! Sun Aug-21-11 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. And POLITICAL SCIENTISTS will disagree with you
Authoritarian thought exists on both extremes. The key word here is... extremes.
Why at the extremes, from the citizen's point of view it really does not make a tinker's damn of a difference.
I guess we should add POLITICAL SCIENTIST to her resume, maybe we can also add APOLOGIST FOR MASS MURDERERS.
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maybe it wasn't the economics so much as it was the concentration of power of all production, arms and policy to a single policy without the ability to dissent or seek even a second party.
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The DUmmies should try reading the Gulag Archipelago if they think Communism is such a benign force, but then Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn was a Christian, and strongly anti-Athiest, so they likely would refuse to do so.
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ileus (1000+ posts) Sun Aug-21-11 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
5. eh...carbon footprints.
Imagine how bad global warming would be with the generations of those 100 million.
DUmmies are usually pretty good at labeling their posts as sarcasm. So what's going on with this post?
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The DUmmies should try reading the Gulag Archipelago if they think Communism is such a benign force, but then Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn was a Christian, and strongly anti-Athiest, so they likely would refuse to do so.
Solzhenitsyn is also, unfortunately, a Russian, which means his book is among the densest, most boring, most incomprehensible tomes known to man. I gave up on Russian books a long time ago, but they're probably a little better on Kindle. You could much more easily recheck those twenty-letter names that all sound alike. A DUmp democrat could no more read a Russian book than he could fly to the moon.
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The DUmmies should try reading the Gulag Archipelago if they think Communism is such a benign force, but then Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn was a Christian, and strongly anti-Athiest, so they likely would refuse to do so.
An important point to note - whether the Communist side or the Nazi side, the mass-murdering regimes of the 20th century were united by their dislike of religion.
Add together the Soviets, the Cultural Revolution, the Nazis, the North Koreans, the Khmer Rouge and suddenly the claims of the loony new-athiests like Prof. Dawkins (and their far less compos mentis followers on the DUmp) become less plausible.
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Wonder what would happen if i signed up at the dumpster and told her off, verbally of course. That is what i want to do.....I can't stand her!!!!! :mad:
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Her numbers are ridiculous, as is the equivalency of the ratios. Millions on this continent? Hogwash. The Cheka was nothing like the NKVD/MVD in terms of brutality and slaughter, the actual difference is like a comparison between a rummage sale and WalMart's global operations. And far as the Fascists vs. the Leftists go, forced to choose between the two, anyone with even the most cursory literacy in 20th Century history would have to say it was a damned sight safer for a member of the general majority populace to live in the former than the latter.
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I'm sure nutcase has nadined "moral equivalency".
I'm also sure she still doesn't understand what it means.
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Wonder what would happen if i signed up at the dumpster and told her off, verbally of course. That is what i want to do.....I can't stand her!!!!! :mad:
Nothing.
You would get banned, your profile and post scrubbed, and DUmbass nadin would keep on keepin' on like nothing had happened.
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A liberal with morals.... :lmao:
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Solzhenitsyn is also, unfortunately, a Russian, which means his book is among the densest, most boring, most incomprehensible tomes known to man. I gave up on Russian books a long time ago, but they're probably a little better on Kindle. You could much more easily recheck those twenty-letter names that all sound alike. A DUmp democrat could no more read a Russian book than he could fly to the moon.
Gulag Archipelago is written in a way appropriate to the scale and unadulterated oppression of its subject, but it's still about 30 times easier to wade through than 'Classic' Russian writing like Crime and Punishment. Solzhenitsyn's August 1914 is a pretty good read, though, you might like it.
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Gulag Archipelago is written in a way appropriate to the scale and unadulterated oppression of its subject, but it's still about 30 times easier to wade through than 'Classic' Russian writing like Crime and Punishment. Solzhenitsyn's August 1914 is a pretty good read, though, you might like it.
After Solzhenitsyn finished that work and others, and was asked, in his studied opinion, why all of the tragedy had befallen the USSR. He answered "because they had forgotten about God."
edit: found the quote:
Over a half century ago, while I was still a child, I recall hearing a number of old people offer the following explanation for the great disasters that had befallen Russia: "Men have forgotten God; that's why all this has happened." Since then I have spent well-nigh 50 years working on the history of our revolution; in the process I have read hundreds of books, collected hundreds of personal testimonies, and have already contributed eight volumes of my own toward the effort of clearing away the rubble left by that upheaval. But if I were asked today to formulate as concisely as possible the main cause of the ruinous revolution that swallowed up some 60 million of our people, I could not put it more accurately than to repeat: "Men have forgotten God; that's why all this has happened."
Oh, and those 60 million lives were swallowed up by atheistic liberal "ideals".
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Gulag Archipelago is written in a way appropriate to the scale and unadulterated oppression of its subject, but it's still about 30 times easier to wade through than 'Classic' Russian writing like Crime and Punishment. Solzhenitsyn's August 1914 is a pretty good read, though, you might like it.
I've read "Crime and Punishment". For the sake of readers, the title should be shortened to "Punishment".
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I've read "Crime and Punishment". For the sake of readers, the title should be shortened to "Punishment".
+1. The whole time I felt like I was reading some liberal's autobiography.
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I've read "Crime and Punishment". For the sake of readers, the title should be shortened to "Punishment".
I wholeheartedly agree. The 'crime' part was any teacher assigning it. I could only manage to really read about a third of it, very lightly skimmed maybe another third, then depended on my notes from the class discussion to get me through the test on it in high school.
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Morals...ain't that some kind of mushroom DUmmies get high on?