The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Tess Anderson on August 15, 2011, 05:36:01 PM
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:)
link (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1745827)
Blowhard's at it again:
[nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-15-11 05:16 PM
Original message
This is the essential disagreement among the right and the left
and Perry did state it well.
WHAT IS THE ROLE OF GOVERNMENT.
Should DC ONLY have a military role, aka funding the military for war? Read your constitution... or should it also have a role in improving the public welfare.
I can make an argument for both. And no, Social Security is NOT enumerated in the Constitution... it is in the preamble and it is implied.
But this is the ideological war we are having. And make no mistake it is a war.
::)
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Social security is in the preamble?
Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Donate to DU! Mon Aug-15-11 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. I think right wingers' hatreds cause them to want a small govt that is used only to wage war
Edited on Mon Aug-15-11 05:23 PM by Sarah Ibarruri
By the way, EXCELLENT POST!
:whatever:
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The right to life is clearly stated, yet they continue to argue that the mother's wishes are more important...just as they are ignorant of, or ignoring, the founders' clearly stated belief that the wealth earned by a man or his father should never be confiscated by government to be given to those with less ambition or luck.
The essential disagreement between left and right is freedom...the right wishes to be free to live as they choose, work for and gain their own wealth, give as our conscience calls, and hopefully retain something to help our children. The left wants Uncle Sam to hand them everything they've never earned, and to reduce "the rich" to equality with them with complete disregard for how that wealth was created.
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Social security is in the preamble?
Yes, it is.
You're thinking of COLA, $5 light bulbs, and queers in the Army.
Those are in the Constitution.
By the way, Constitutional Scholar needs to go on nadin's resume.
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Yes, it is.
You're thinking of COLA, $5 light bulbs, and queers in the Army.
Those are in the Constitution.
By the way, Constitutional Scholar needs to go on nadin's resume.
I need to reread it obviously I missed all that last time. :-)
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We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Anyone see anything about socialist insecurity in there? Didn't think so. If it were in there, why didn't the founders set the program up themselves?
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I need to reread it obviously I missed all that last time.
Sheets Byrd had those items highlighted in his copy.
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We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
I believe this is where DUmmies and liberals get Social Security is Constitutional.
It's right there between Roe v. Wade, and Gay Marriage. :hammer:
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I believe this is where DUmmies and liberals get Social Security is Constitutional.
It's right there between Roe v. Wade, and Gay Marriage. :hammer:
provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare
The founders could have easily have used the word provide, for both, but they didn't. They knew that the government should not be a nanny to everyone.
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secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity
That part always gets ignored by libs.
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secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity
See this is the part that always gets democrats excited.
For generations, they've thought it means they have the Liberty to sit on their Posteriors and still receive Blessings.
So far, they've been right.
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We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
I believe this is where DUmmies and liberals get Social Security is Constitutional.
It's right there between Roe v. Wade, and Gay Marriage. :hammer:
And they always leave out the enumerated powers ... funny that.
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
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IMO, it all started going to hell with the ratification of the 17th Amendment, when Senators stopped representing the states and became glorified Representatives.
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And they always leave out the enumerated powers ... funny that.
Liberals think that the necessary and proper clause expands the enumerated powers infinitely.
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Social security is in the preamble?
:whatever:
It's in the Good n Welfare Clause. AKA the Good n Plenty Clause.
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If it were in there, why didn't the founders set the program up themselves?
That's the question that stumps them everytime.
.
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We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
It would behoove those DUmbasses to understand why one is "provide" and the other is "promote". If they wanted the government to provide for the general welfare, they'd have STATED provide for the general welfare. Unfortunately for those DUmbasses, the founders knew that if the government was providing, someone was getting screwed out of their property and wealth.
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RWKINDAGUY...
your quote leaves out the "promote" in front of general welfare and makes it look like the preamble says we need to provide it.
where did you copy it from? liberal site?
nvmd i read the rest of it now :thatsright:
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The essential differences between conservatives and the liberal scumbaggery is conservatives like freedom to behave morally and responsibly while liberals want the freedom to behave immorally while having their responsibilities taken care of and funded by government.
That's the bottom line, nadin.
In graduate school getting my MTax, we had law professors. In our legal research class, we learned that when a law is vague, cannot be addressed adequately by the courts, then the original intent is to be the guiding principle in interpreting the law. Read the original intent, nadin, and weep, scumbag:
"The construction applied... to those parts of the Constitution of the United States which delegate to Congress a power "to lay and collect taxes, duties, imports, and excises, to pay the debts, and provide for the common defence and general welfare of the United States," and "to make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the powers vested by the Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof," goes to the destruction of all limits prescribed to [the General Government's] power by the Constitution... Words meant by the instrument to be subsidiary only to the execution of limited powers ought not to be construed as themselves to give unlimited powers, nor a part to be so taken as to destroy the whole residue of that instrument." --Thomas Jefferson: Draft Kentucky Resolutions, 1798. ME 17:385
"To lay taxes to provide for the general welfare of the United States, that is to say, "to lay taxes for the purpose of providing for the general welfare." For the laying of taxes is the power, and the general welfare the purpose for which the power is to be exercised. They are not to lay taxes ad libitum for any purpose they please; but only to pay the debts or provide for the welfare of the Union." --Thomas Jefferson: Opinion on National Bank, 1791. ME 3:147
"Aided by a little sophistry on the words "general welfare," [the federal branch claim] a right to do not only the acts to effect that which are specifically enumerated and permitted, but whatsoever they shall think or pretend will be for the general welfare." --Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1825. ME 16:147
"They are not to do anything they please to provide for the general welfare, but only to lay taxes for that purpose. To consider the latter phrase not as describing the purpose of the first, but as giving a distinct and independent power to do any act they please which might be for the good of the Union, would render all the preceding and subsequent enumerations of power completely useless. It would reduce the whole instrument to a single phrase, that of instituting a Congress with power to do whatever would be for the good of the United States; and, as they would be the sole judges of the good or evil, it would be also a power to do whatever evil they please... Certainly no such universal power was meant to be given them. It was intended to lace them up straitly within the enumerated powers and those without which, as means, these powers could not be carried into effect." --Thomas Jefferson: Opinion on National Bank, 1791. ME 3:148
And that's just Jefferson, whom many liberals incorrectly claim as one of their own.
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Thanks for the quotes, Erasmus. Seems like there is nothing new under the sun. Jefferson was trying to reign in the loons even then, sounding the warning bell.
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Thanks for the quotes, Erasmus. Seems like there is nothing new under the sun. Jefferson was trying to reign in the loons even then, sounding the warning bell.
Those are some of my favorites! Unfortunately, they're at least 6 grades above the average liberal reading level. Every time I hear a liberal say that so-and-so law or bureaucracy is okay under the "general welfare clause" my stomach turns.
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It's odd how all appeals to "general" welfare seem to profit liberals in particular.
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I wish we used the Limey term "dole" instead of "welfare" when that little program started. Modern idiots have latched on to that one word and think the founders use of the word means the same thing that word means now.
No offence to naturalized Limeys for the use of the word Limey.
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Those are some of my favorites! Unfortunately, they're at least 6 grades above the average liberal reading level. Every time I hear a liberal say that so-and-so law or bureaucracy is okay under the "general welfare clause" my stomach turns.
Yep. Even if they actually studied the intent of the founders, they couldn't understand it. There aren't even any pictures. :-)
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I wish we used the Limey term "dole" instead of "welfare" when that little program started. Modern idiots have latched on to that one word and think the founders use of the word means the same thing that word means now.
No offence to naturalized Limeys for the use of the word Limey.
naughtiness!!!!! :tongue:
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Gonads,Seriously STFU.
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A disagreement is "between" two parties, nutcase. It can't be "among" until a third party joins the argument.
Nutcase nadin must have sat up class the days they taught prepositions.
And spelling.
And grammar.
And most vocabulary.
And etiquette.
And manners.
And how to win friends and influence people.
Oh, Cisco! Oh, Pancho!
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I'm one of nadin's biggest fans. While I like to think of myself as her unofficial CC advocate, I must say that I think she left out something important in this revelation.
While she did state what the essential disagreement among the right and left is, I feel she should have pointed out that the main root of the disagreement among the right and the left is the basic differences between the right and the left.
The right, in general, is composed of decent, normal individuals. Notice I did say "in general."
While the left ,in general (and DU in specific), are boar hog tits.
The southern people here probably know what I'm talking about. If you don't know, just ask.
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I'm one of nadin's biggest fans. While I like to think of myself as her unofficial CC advocate, I must say that I think she left out something important in this revelation.
While she did state what the essential disagreement among the right and left is, I feel she should have pointed out that the main root of the disagreement among the right and the left is the basic differences between the right and the left.
The right, in general, is composed of decent, normal individuals. Notice I did say "in general."
While the left ,in general (and DU in specific), are boar hog tits.
The southern people here probably know what I'm talking about. If you don't know, just ask.
Flippy, I spent a total of three years of my life in the South, and I know exactly what you're talking about.
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Tsk tsk, Flippy! Why, running this country without the thoughtful insights of Liberals on important Constitutional points would be like deer hunting without an accordion.
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While the left ,in general (and DU in specific), are boar hog tits.
I don't think that's purely a Southern term.
I knew many people in Ohio who could tell if someone was as useless as tits on a boar hog.
Of course, southern Ohio is purely Appalachia, so maybe in really, truly Yankee places it's a foreign concept.
That may be due to environmental factors. After all, if nearly everyone is seven feet tall, you don't recognize someone 7'1" as "tall".