The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: thundley4 on July 21, 2011, 04:08:49 PM
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cali (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-21-11 09:33 AM
Original message
Contempt for the poor on DU.
Edited on Thu Jul-21-11 09:50 AM by cali
I wish I didn't see it, and it's certainly a minority position, but it's not uncommon either.
Yes, poverty in the U.S. is generally different from poverty in many third world countries, but forget that for a minute; it's a rather stupid comparison.
Poverty in America means substandard health care. It means a generally shitty diet. It means a debilitating fear of losing a roof over your head. It means not being able to fix the old wreck when it has problems and not being able to afford to replace it. In some places, poverty in this country means not being able to heat or cool your dwelling. It means bugs and vermin. It means crappy access to the judicial system. It means an often overwhelming sense of hopelessness for many who are mired in poverty. It means risk to your children in a myriad of ways.
Let's judge poverty by the context we live in.
Poverty in America sucks.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1537521
Cali gets lots of kudos and high fives from the DUmmies where poor Bobbo the hobo only got sneers and jeers. If a thread like this doesn't draw Bobbo out, does that mean she is gone?
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It's a minority position? Like hell it is. Not a single DUer gives a shit about the poor. If they did, they wouldn't support policies that do nothing but keep people poor. They would left the barriers to getting a good education in the inner cities. They would cut taxes for those who employ the poor.
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How much money do we have to keep shelling out to these leeches? The war on poverty CANNOT BE WON. Do you DUmbasses wanna know why? Because you're not addressing the problem; you're looking for voters. If you wanted to actually address the problem, you wouldn't make these leeches feel comfortable IN poverty. To end poverty, people must be driven OUT of poverty. Poverty is a personal choice in I'd say 95% of the cases.
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How much money do we have to keep shelling out to these leeches? The war on poverty CANNOT BE WON. Do you DUmbasses wanna know why? Because you're not addressing the problem; you're looking for voters. If you wanted to actually address the problem, you wouldn't make these leeches feel comfortable IN poverty. To end poverty, people must be driven OUT of poverty. Poverty is a personal choice in I'd say 95% of the cases.
Hungar is a great motivator...but our poor are suffering from obesity.
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I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I traveled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.
There is no country in the world where so many provisions are established for them; so many hospitals to receive them when they are sick or lame, founded and maintained by voluntary charities; so many alms-houses for the aged of both sexes, together with a solemn general law made by the rich to subject their estates to a heavy tax for the support of the poor.
Under all these obligations, are our poor modest, humble, and thankful; and do they use their best endeavours to maintain themselves, and lighten our shoulders of this burthen? — On the contrary, I affirm that there is no country in the world in which the poor are more idle, dissolute, drunken, and insolent.
The day you passed that act, you took away from before their eyes the greatest of all inducements to industry, frugality, and sobriety, by giving them a dependance on somewhat else than a careful accumulation during youth and health, for support in age or sickness.
In short, you offered a premium for the encouragement of idleness, and you should not now wonder that it has had its effect in the increase of poverty.
Repeal that law, and you will soon see a change in their manners. St. Monday, and St. Tuesday, will cease to be holidays. SIX days shalt thou labour, though one of the old commandments long treated as out of date, will again be looked upon as a respectable precept; industry will increase, and with it plenty among the lower people; their circumstances will mend, and more will be done for their happiness by inuring them to provide for themselves, than could be done by dividing all your estates among them. ~ Benjamin Franklin
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So, it's not a new problem and the solution is also 200+ years old.
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So, it's not a new problem and the solution is also 200+ years old.
I'd say the "solution" has gotten worse.
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Worse medical care? If they're on Medicaid, they're getting a lot better medical care than most of the working stiffs in the next higher chunk of the population.
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Worse medical care? If they're on Medicaid, they're getting a lot better medical care than most of the working stiffs in the next higher chunk of the population.
No, I mean worse in the government is doing MORE.
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Hungar is a great motivator...but our poor are suffering from obesity.
Hungar is a great motivator...but our poor are suffering from obesity.
That is the problem! You hit it! On my way to work in the morn I pass a welfare motel. One of those old motels the goberment puts up the "needy"! Most of the time there are 300lb fat bitches sitting on the front porch watching the sunrise while tokin on the crack pipe!
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How much money do we have to keep shelling out to these leeches? The war on poverty CANNOT BE WON. Do you DUmbasses wanna know why? Because you're not addressing the problem; you're looking for voters. If you wanted to actually address the problem, you wouldn't make these leeches feel comfortable IN poverty. To end poverty, people must be driven OUT of poverty. Poverty is a personal choice in I'd say 95% of the cases.
H5!!!! It should hurt to be poor. It should make you want to not be poor. It should make you want to work to quit being poor.
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Can't remember who it was on USMILNET, but the best BIO I ever read was, "I left home at 17 and joined the military because I was hungry. I spent 20+ years in service of my country".
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cali (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-21-11 09:33 AM
Original message
Contempt for the poor on DU.
Edited on Thu Jul-21-11 09:50 AM by cali
I wish I didn't see it, and it's certainly a minority position, but it's not uncommon either.
Yes, poverty in the U.S. is generally different from poverty in many third world countries, but forget that for a minute; it's a rather stupid comparison.
Poverty in America means substandard health care. It means a generally shitty diet. It means a debilitating fear of losing a roof over your head. It means not being able to fix the old wreck when it has problems and not being able to afford to replace it. In some places, poverty in this country means not being able to heat or cool your dwelling. It means bugs and vermin. It means crappy access to the judicial system. It means an often overwhelming sense of hopelessness for many who are mired in poverty. It means risk to your children in a myriad of ways.
Let's judge poverty by the context we live in.
Poverty in America sucks.
I am sure those in muzzie and communist countries that have no food or shelter sympathize.
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cali (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-21-11 09:33 AM
Original message
Contempt for the poor on DU.
Edited on Thu Jul-21-11 09:50 AM by cali
I wish I didn't see it, and it's certainly a minority position, but it's not uncommon either.
Yes, poverty in the U.S. is generally different from poverty in many third world countries, but forget that for a minute; it's a rather stupid comparison.
Don't you worry primitive Cali. If this imposter in the white mosque wins another election, we will be living like a third world nation. Have you forgotten that HELLCARE system that the commies shoved down our throat, that we cannot afford, coming in a couple of years to add to our OVER-SIZED debt/deficit?
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Cali champions the "poor" (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1537521)
cali (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-21-11 09:33 AM
Original message
Contempt for the poor on DU.
Edited on Thu Jul-21-11 09:50 AM by cali
I wish I didn't see it, and it's certainly a minority position, but it's not uncommon either.
Yes, poverty in the U.S. is generally different from poverty in many third world countries, but forget that for a minute; it's a rather stupid comparison.
Poverty in America means substandard health care. It means a generally shitty diet. It means a debilitating fear of losing a roof over your head. It means not being able to fix the old wreck when it has problems and not being able to afford to replace it. In some places, poverty in this country means not being able to heat or cool your dwelling. It means bugs and vermin. It means crappy access to the judicial system. It means an often overwhelming sense of hopelessness for many who are mired in poverty. It means risk to your children in a myriad of ways.
Let's judge poverty by the context we live in.
Poverty in America sucks.
Poverty in America? There is some, but what you call poverty ain't. A shitty diet beats hell out of having distended stomach because you have no food. Many in poverty in America live in subsidized housing, and have charitable programs that will give them cars, as well as assistance with electricity. Bugs and vermin tend to be a hygeine and clenliness problem, if the Army can avoid having infestations in an eighty man bay, then any house ought to be a snap. Some of this stuff doesn't exist in other developed countries. You know the ones you've never visited but like to compare America negatively against.
Hmmmm...No Bobo?
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Nope, no Bobo.
If that person was real, I wish him/her well.
I suspect the library finally wised up, and kicked him/her out.
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If Bobowasnt a mole i reckon they are now parked outside the pearly gates struggling to get a wifi signal on their iphone.
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Being shiftless and lazy is a far cry from being poor. If one is poor from being shiftless and lazy isn't that a personal problem?
As far as how awful it is for the "poor" in America I call bullshit. All the screaming poor have housing, food, clothing, education for their children, medical care, cell phones, on and on. You call that poor? I call that sucking on the nanny state teat.
My guess is that most of the DUmmies have never seen what poor actually amounts to. They see the screaming teat suckers with rugrats crawling all over their 300 pound frames or laying in broken down lawn chairs passing a crack pipe around and think that's what poor looks like. That's a choice sweethearts!
I've seen poor and it ain't what DUmmies think it is.
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Nope, no Bobo.
If that person was real, I wish him/her well.
I suspect the library finally wised up, and kicked him/her out.
Yup, could be they 'moved the bus stop" to air out the stink. Then too, Bobo may now be wating for the boatman at the river Styx.
Where are her concerned homies on this? Shirley, someone ( or something) must have mused about the loss of one so dear to the head, heart, hands, and, healing light that is noble dumpdumb. Are there no threads, where is the compassion, this cries out for a DUAC. 11!!!11!!! DUAC!!!
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How much money do we have to keep shelling out to these leeches? The war on poverty CANNOT BE WON. Do you DUmbasses wanna know why? Because you're not addressing the problem; you're looking for voters.
There's a much more basic reason than that why it can never end.
"Poverty" is always going to be defined by the "Social scientists" by some proportional term such as the lowest income one-seventh of the population, not by any standard of material well-being, and therefore it is structurally impossible for these programs to ever end. Any income number they kick out for a "Poverty line" is just the current snapshot of where that proportional division line lies this year, it is NOT the number they will use the next year.
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There's a much more basic reason than that why it can never end.
"Poverty" is always going to be defined by the "Social scientists" by some proportional term such as the lowest income one-seventh of the population, not by any standard of material well-being, and therefore it is structurally impossible for these programs to ever end. Any income number they kick out for a "Poverty line" is just the current snapshot of where that proportional division line lies this year, it is NOT the number they will use the next year.
Exactly! If we gave them all a brand-new automobile, the ones without satellite radio would be defined as "poor".
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There's a much more basic reason than that why it can never end.
"Poverty" is always going to be defined by the "Social scientists" by some proportional term such as the lowest income one-seventh of the population, not by any standard of material well-being, and therefore it is structurally impossible for these programs to ever end. Any income number they kick out for a "Poverty line" is just the current snapshot of where that proportional division line lies this year, it is NOT the number they will use the next year.
My grandfather, born in 1918, grew up poor during the depression in the delta of Mississippi. He always said they weren't impacted at all by it. They always had food, as they farmed, and never had the money for any niceties anyway, even before the depression. Said they didn't know they were poor until some government worker told them they were poor and tried to sell them on jobs from certain government projects being funded by the New Deal.
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Those of us here,like me that have been around the world have seen poor people. When you have a home,tv,cable,food a car and a check coming to you every month then your not poor.
Poor is when you have nothing more then the clothes you are wearing and no place to go. Poor is when you have been starving for days and have no way to get food. Poor is walking for miles to get someplace to find shelter from the weather and that shelter is a tree or an overpass or a cave. That is what poor is.