The Conservative Cave

Current Events => General Discussion => Topic started by: DefiantSix on July 14, 2011, 04:43:58 PM

Title: WTF, over?!?!
Post by: DefiantSix on July 14, 2011, 04:43:58 PM: (http://www.glennbeck.com/publish/uploads/2011/07/Jesus-was-a-slave-640x426.jpg)

This banner is posted right next to the spot where Jesus fell while carrying the cross.

LINK (http://www.glennbeck.com/2011/07/14/photo-jesus-was-a-slave-to-allah/)

Last time I checked, Jesus wasn't a SLAVE to ANYBODY. He acknowledged that he was "Doing the will of His Father", but he was doing so under his own free will and choice. (Witness the scene in Gethsemane when he MADE THE CHOICE to "shrink not from the bitter cup", as evidence of this.) He is the KING OF KINGS and LORD OF LORDS, which would kinda preclude him being a SLAVE to anybody or anything.
Title: Re: WTF, over?!?!
Post by: Eupher on July 14, 2011, 04:52:09 PM: More islamic propaganda.
Title: Re: WTF, over?!?!
Post by: DumbAss Tanker on July 14, 2011, 04:57:21 PM: "Allah" means "Lord" in Arabic, so the quote is a selective translation, mixing "Allah" and "Lord" for the same word. If you stick "Lord" into the quote for all appearances of BOTH words, it makes sense.

The phonetic version of Arabic in yellow is the ever-popular "There is no god but God," which is of course Allah as far as they're concerned.
Title: Re: WTF, over?!?!
Post by: FreeBorn on July 14, 2011, 05:38:13 PM: That reminds me that I need to replace the Quran up at the hunting camp. Drilled a 1/4" hole in the corner so it could be hung on some twine in the outhouse just like the Old Farmer's Almanac. Of course the Almanac is for reading and its pages are that pulpy rough sort of paper, not soft & supple like the Quran. :-)
Title: Re: WTF, over?!?!
Post by: Doc on July 14, 2011, 06:17:27 PM: Quote from: DumbAss Tanker on July 14, 2011, 04:57:21 PM
"Allah" means "Lord" in Arabic, so the quote is a selective translation, mixing "Allah" and "Lord" for the same word. If you stick "Lord" into the quote for all appearances of BOTH words, it makes sense.

The phonetic version of Arabic in yellow is the ever-popular "There is no god but God," which is of course Allah as far as they're concerned.

True......and translating the words of Christ from Koine Greek into Arabic (depending on which Gospel was used for the Koran) the word "slave" can be juxtaposed with the word "servant"...........there are no words in Arabic to differentiate the two without the addition of an adjective phrase.

Leaving: "I am indeed a servant of the lord........."

Not to start a foodfight, but this is generally why I have issues with "literal" interpretations of biblical translations, particularly when they are stated out of context.

doc
Title: Re: WTF, over?!?!
Post by: MrsSmith on July 14, 2011, 06:55:17 PM: I don't remember or find where Jesus called Himself a servant of God, either as doulos - slave (though often translated servant or bondservant, in Greek it literally means slave), or as diakonos - one who executes the commands of another. I only find verses where Jesus referred to Himself as Son of God, huios.
Title: Re: WTF, over?!?!
Post by: Doc on July 14, 2011, 07:00:34 PM: Quote from: MrsSmith on July 14, 2011, 06:55:17 PM
I don't remember or find where Jesus called Himself a servant of God, either as doulos - slave (though often translated servant or bondservant, in Greek it literally means slave), or as diakonos - one who executes the commands of another. I only find verses where Jesus referred to Himself as Son of God, huios.

I wasn't referring to Greek......

But Arabic.......

ÙƒÙ†Øª Ø¨Ø§Ù„ØªØ£ÙƒÙŠØ¯ Ø´Ø®Øµ Ø§Ù„Ø¨Ø§Ø·Ù„Ø©ØŒ Ù„Ø´Ø®Øµ Ù…Ø§ Ù…Ø¹ ØªÙ‚Ø±ÙŠØ¨Ø§ Ø£ÙŠ ØªØ¹Ù„ÙŠÙ…

doc
Title: Re: WTF, over?!?!
Post by: MrsSmith on July 14, 2011, 07:02:20 PM: Quote from: TVDOC on July 14, 2011, 07:00:34 PM
I wasn't referring to Greek......

But Arabic.......

doc
OK, in which verse did Christ refer to Himself as a servant of God in Arabic?
Title: Re: WTF, over?!?!
Post by: DumbAss Tanker on July 14, 2011, 07:04:16 PM: Exactly correct on the slave/servant usage, Doc; and Mrs. Smith, you have to bear in mind that the Moslems don't necessarily limit themselves to the church-sanctioned gospel. Since they regard Jesus as 'just' a prophet, and the Christian church as sadly misguided, they accord no special significance to the historical church's choice of what was Gospel vs. Apocrypha, or even more tangential records, so they have a much broader range of writings to pull from for something like this.
Title: Re: WTF, over?!?!
Post by: DumbAss Tanker on July 14, 2011, 07:25:01 PM: No, no, I think that clears it all up rather nicely.

:-)
Title: Re: WTF, over?!?!
Post by: Doc on July 14, 2011, 07:30:02 PM: Quote from: DumbAss Tanker on July 14, 2011, 07:25:01 PM
No, no, I think that clears it all up rather nicely.

:-)

I deleted my real thoughts on the subject......as unfortunately our board software will not allow Arabic to be written in "right justification" as it is read.

.Ø§Ù„Ù„Ù‡ ÙŠØºÙØ± Ù„ÙŠØŒ ØØªÙ‰ ÙŠØªÙ…ØªØ¹ Ø§Ù„Ø±Ø¬ÙŠØ¬ Ù„Ù‡Ø§ Ø³Ù„Ø³Ù„Ø©.

I'll quit being an asshole now...... :-)

doc
Title: Re: WTF, over?!?!
Post by: FreeBorn on July 14, 2011, 07:46:18 PM: FWIW Jesus spoke in Aramaic, not Arabic. That may have some bearing on translations as well.
Title: Re: WTF, over?!?!
Post by: TVDOC on July 14, 2011, 08:02:11 PM: Quote from: FreeBorn on July 14, 2011, 07:46:18 PM
FWIW Jesus spoke in Aramaic, not Arabic. That may have some bearing on translations as well.

There is some scholarly evidence that Christ was multilingual, as were many in the Holy Land at the time.

You are correct that Aramaic was the language of the "common man" in the area......however....

Christ was also educated in the temple, where Greek was regularly spoken by the priests (it was also the universal language of Mediterranean commerce).....and the language in which much of the Gospels were originally recorded.

The Holy Land was a Roman colony, and many also spoke Latin......

Who knows?

However, when discussing quotations from the Koran, one must always refer to the language in which it was written.....Arabic.....with its many idiosyncrasies.

doc
Title: Re: WTF, over?!?!
Post by: MrsSmith on July 15, 2011, 05:35:20 AM: Regardless of the language, we have no reason to believe that Christ ever referred to Himself as a servant of God. He clearly put His Father's will above His own, but that does not reduce Him to servant or slave status...in any language.

On the other hand, He quite clearly identified Himself as Son of Man, Son of God, and God. I don't know when Mohammed met Christ, since he was born 600 years later and obviously not a Christian, so I would have to deny the entire OP verse as inaccurate in any language.
Title: Re: WTF, over?!?!
Post by: Mr Mannn on July 15, 2011, 05:53:52 AM: THis is NOT a Bible verse. Its from the Islamic Quran. Note the Quran 3:51.

Big difference. islam claims that Jesus was just a prophet and will return to point to islam as the correct religion . Further this false islamic Jesus will introduce the Mahdi, the muslim messiah who will then slaughter the unbelievers on earth.

What this banner is attempting to do, is use Jesus to evangelize for islam by putting words in his mouth.
Title: Re: WTF, over?!?!
Post by: Eupher on July 15, 2011, 07:58:16 AM: Quote from: Mr Mannn on July 15, 2011, 05:53:52 AM
THis is NOT a Bible verse. Its from the Islamic Quran. Note the Quran 3:51.

Big difference. islam claims that Jesus was just a prophet and will return to point to islam as the correct religion . Further this false islamic Jesus will introduce the Mahdi, the muslim messiah who will then slaughter the unbelievers on earth.

What this banner is attempting to do, is use Jesus to evangelize for islam by putting words in his mouth.

That was my takeaway from the OP.

But good stuff from Doc and DAT.
Title: Re: WTF, over?!?!
Post by: Karin on July 15, 2011, 10:03:37 AM: It's a Qurannic verse; Mohammed made up all that shit anyway.