The Conservative Cave
The Bar => Sports => Topic started by: rustybayonet on July 08, 2011, 07:51:47 PM
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Ohio State vacates 2010 football wins, Sugar Bowl
Friday, July 8, 2011 7:55 PM EDT
They had frequented a tattoo parlor and had sold autographs, signed equipment, championship rings and even a bowl sportsmanship award — all contrary to NCAA bylaws which prevent athletes from profiting off their name or fame.
Then in January, the university learned that Tressel had known about the violations since April 2010. After backing him for weeks, the university pressured him to resign on Memorial Day.
Smith said a continual drumbeat of revelations and allegations all but forced Ohio State to "separate" from Tressel. He said he was stunned when he learned of Tressel's deception.
"In the moment, yes, I felt betrayed. Why not bring that to me?" Smith said. "But I've gone on."
Officials said Friday they believed they'd uncovered all possible violations by football players.
"You never know, but we've done a lot of due diligence," said John Bruno, faculty athletics representative. "We looked weeks to months to find something else and nothing has come up."
Pryor was among the original group of players who was suspended for the first five games of this year. But he left OSU to try his luck in the NFL soon after Tressel quit. The NCAA added a five-game suspension for yet another player earlier this week.
The current Buckeyes almost seem to be expecting more severe penalties.
"We're only promised 12 games," safety Orhian Johnson said this week.
Interim coach Luke Fickell said his players, in the midst of summer conditioning, have accepted many of the changes he has implemented in the program but no one knows how they'll respond when the sanctions are finalized.
"I think they're buying in but you don't know," he said. "Until other adversity and other situations happen, you'll see what happens."
for complete story .... www.twitter.com/rustymillerap
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This sort of thing makes me mad. The NCAA is one of the most corrupt organizations in the world. These kids bring in Billions of dollars with there play. Yes, they get a free education but that is a pittance compared to how much they make for the university. They are like the shoe that was made for 25 cents in a third world sweat shop and sold for $200. These kids have to practice twice a day, then study a playbook when they get home. Then do their regular college studies. All of that is required. Then, when they want to take their girlfriend out to a movie and dinner, they can't because they have no money. So, they sell something that they own. Doesn't matter who gave it to them, it is theirs! And the NCAA gets pissed.
If someone offers someone a discount on their own business for whatever reason, it should be legal. Cops get free donuts, people at Home Depot get 10% off...ect. What is the difference? If I own a shop and give you a free tattoo because you sign something, that is my choice. NCAA is like Nazi Germany.
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This sort of thing makes me mad. The NCAA is one of the most corrupt organizations in the world. These kids bring in Billions of dollars with there play. Yes, they get a free education but that is a pittance compared to how much they make for the university. They are like the shoe that was made for 25 cents in a third world sweat shop and sold for $200. These kids have to practice twice a day, then study a playbook when they get home. Then do their regular college studies. All of that is required. Then, when they want to take their girlfriend out to a movie and dinner, they can't because they have no money. So, they sell something that they own. Doesn't matter who gave it to them, it is theirs! And the NCAA gets pissed.
If someone offers someone a discount on their own business for whatever reason, it should be legal. Cops get free donuts, people at Home Depot get 10% off...ect. What is the difference? If I own a shop and give you a free tattoo because you sign something, that is my choice. NCAA is like Nazi Germany.
Hmmm! Ohio State fan maybe? :-) Rules are rules.....Every kid and coach know the rules when they decide to join the team.You don't like it? Don't join!...Btw? Our justice system fails at times too....Should we just let people who commit crimes go free just because the justice system is flawed? Sounds like sour grapes to me! :whistling:
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Should we just let people who commit crimes go free just because the justice system is flawed?
Hmmmm.... :fuelfire:
Anyway, as I see it, go ahead and sell your jersey if you want to. Sell your pants. Hell, sell the jock strap, and gloves for all I care. DON'T sell any rings you got for winning a game, or any trophies you aquired. For crying out loud, that's just disrespectful, and it urinates all over the school you went to, (especially a Div I school that is always in the National spotlight) and their fans. Jsut IMO though.
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Isn't Auburn in trouble with Cam Newton?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cam_Newton
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5765214
I know it is not on the level of OSU. Jim Tressel was caught. Arrogance leads to perdition.
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Wow, this makes Ohio State 0 and what vs SEC teams?
:lmao:
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These kids have to practice twice a day, then study a playbook when they get home. Then do their regular college studies. All of that is required. Then, when they want to take their girlfriend out to a movie and dinner, they can't because they have no money. So, they sell something that they own. Doesn't matter who gave it to them, it is theirs!
So I should have demanded a cut of the gate and concessions when I was playing high school football?
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Bit of a difference between HS and college. The money spent on HS stadiums, etc., aren't nearly recouped as they are at the collegiate level.
That being said, the fish rots from the head down. Death penalty for Ohio State.
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Hell, sell the jock strap
I'm sure that there are lots of DUmmy 'men' who would get DUmmy womyn to bid high on things like that . . .
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Bit of a difference between HS and college. The money spent on HS stadiums, etc., aren't nearly recouped as they are at the collegiate level.
That being said, the fish rots from the head down. Death penalty for Ohio State.
High school football ticket was much cheaper than college football. As for Ohio State, they had their glory in the Sun. Someone else should take their place.
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High school football ticket was much cheaper than college football. As for Ohio State, they had their glory in the Sun. Someone else should take their place.
Michigan? :rotf:
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Bit of a difference between HS and college. The money spent on HS stadiums, etc., aren't nearly recouped as they are at the collegiate level.
Oh, I know that, I was just seeing how this bounced against the standard being put forth. If we're using these poor college kids as an example, then dammit, I want what I'm due.
:-)
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As for Ohio State, they had their glory in the Sun. Someone else should take their place.
But sir, for some of us, Ohio State is college football.
Always has been, is, always will be.
This is very sad; one wishes one could go back to the days of Woody Hayes, with Bear Bryant one of the two very best college football coaches in history. I always thought Woody Hayes got a raw deal, and perhaps he died prematurely because of his disappointment and discouragement.
However, I'm defiantly confident Ohio State will come back.
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(http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/image_pictures/0109/8093/updatedowners_crop_340x234.jpg)
(http://blog.pennlive.com/pennstatefootball/2008/10/medium_Overrated.jpg)
(http://cstl-cla.semo.edu/wmiller/images/block09.jpg)
:fuelfire:
:-)
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Oh now, that's like kicking a guy when he's already down.
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Oh now, that's like kicking a guy when he's already down.
Yes, it is.... :evillaugh:
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Yes, it is.... :evillaugh:
But back at you, sir; remember, ".....every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill laid low....."
It might sound odd, injecting religion into the sports forum, but hey, out here in Nebraska, college football is practically a religion. Not quite as much as real religion, but pretty close.
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Michigan?
The Buckeyes are temporarily taking some jabs from far less fortunate people.
Note that the last time Michigan won a game against Ohio State was 2,788 days ago.
If anyone is going to join Ohio State at the pinnacle of the Big Ten, it'll be Nebraska, with their Buckeye head coach.
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Yes, I am an OSU fan. But I don't know how selling rings for tattoos affects anything that happens on the field. It is a dumb rule no matter what team gets caught doing it, IMO. What they really need is a minor league football sytem, like baseball, so these kids don't have to enroll in college just to get noticed by the pros.
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And did anyone notice the hypocracy of what OSU decided to do about the problem? They will "symbolically" give up all their wins including the Sugar Bowl. How does that hurt the University in any way? A coach resigned (although I'm glad he's gone) and players get suspended, but the university gets to keep all the money they made during that season. And who would they pay it back to even if they later get fined? It won't be the fans. The NCAA would get the money if they decide to impose a fine. The NCAA is a scam starting with Title IX and all the way down to these silly rules. Ever see a team that just went 2-10 get investigated? Ever hear of a swim team get investigated for recruiting violations? What about any woman's sport? Just follow the money and you usually get your answer.
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But sir, for some of us, Ohio State is college football.
Always has been, is, always will be.
This is very sad; one wishes one could go back to the days of Woody Hayes, with Bear Bryant one of the two very best college football coaches in history. I always thought Woody Hayes got a raw deal, and perhaps he died prematurely because of his disappointment and discouragement.
However, I'm defiantly confident Ohio State will come back.
Well, they had their chance of glory. Let someone else get their chance of glory. :-)
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Well, they had their chance of glory. Let someone else get their chance of glory. :-)
Some things are forever.
Eighty-some years of glory ain't forever.
Ohio State was destined to rule, but not divinely guaranteed against an occasional speed-bump.
One might be curious as to why I'm a fan of Ohio State. Number one, Woody Hayes was second only to Bear Bryant when it comes to college football coaches; I loved Woody Hayes with a passion. Number two, Nebraska's 45 years on top of the heap were because everything that made Nebraska football good, came from Ohio State football. One needs to be grateful to one's antecedents.
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I'm sure that there are lots of DUmmy 'men' who would get DUmmy womyn to bid high on things like that . . .
Undoubtedly, but the only thing a DUmor has in common with a buckeye is little hairless nuts.
Can't believe I just said that either. Half my family's from Ohio, and I'm an OSU fan. I hope none of them read this...
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Some things are forever.
Eighty-some years of glory ain't forever.
Ohio State was destined to rule, but not divinely guaranteed against an occasional speed-bump.
One might be curious as to why I'm a fan of Ohio State. Number one, Woody Hayes was second only to Bear Bryant when it comes to college football coaches; I loved Woody Hayes with a passion. Number two, Nebraska's 45 years on top of the heap were because everything that made Nebraska football good, came from Ohio State football. One needs to be grateful to one's antecedents.
Frank, I admire your passion for OSU football, but the name "Woody Hayes" conjures up an image I have in my mind where he (Hayes), in 1978, struck the nose guard from Clemson with either a fist or an arm following an interception that led to the Buckeyes' loss. That one got Hayes fired.
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(http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/image_pictures/0109/8093/updatedowners_crop_340x234.jpg)
:bow:
(http://blog.pennlive.com/pennstatefootball/2008/10/medium_Overrated.jpg)
:bow:
(http://cstl-cla.semo.edu/wmiller/images/block09.jpg)
:fuelfire:
:bow:
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Frank, I admire your passion for OSU football, but the name "Woody Hayes" conjures up an image I have in my mind where he (Hayes), in 1978, struck the nose guard from Clemson with either a fist or an arm following an interception that led to the Buckeyes' loss. That one got Hayes fired.
He was an old man when that happened.
It's charitable to give the aged among us some leeway.
Woody Hayes, like Bear Bryant, looked like a college football coach.
There's no doubt that Bo Schembechler was a good college football coach, but he always looked goofy, standing there chewing gum; unprofessional.
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He was an old man when that happened.
It's charitable to give the aged among us some leeway.
Woody Hayes, like Bear Bryant, looked like a college football coach.
There's no doubt that Bo Schembechler was a good college football coach, but he always looked goofy, standing there chewing gum; unprofessional.
Whoa, this is a new twist.
You mean it's okay for a college football coach to physically hit an opposing player just because he's old? I'm not going to get into a tit-for-tat exchange with you about Schembechler, because, frankly, I don't care, but Hayes was out of control.
Maybe Schembechler was an out-of-control gum chewer -- I dunno -- but I'm pretty sure he didn't hit anybody.
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Whoa, this is a new twist.
Exactly.
Woody Hayes was an old man, considerably battered and beaten up by the rigors of life.
It was a temporary lapse of judgement; if he'd been younger it was fire-worthy.
I always thought he should get a slap on the wrist--of course--but certainly not fired.
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Ever hear of a swim team get investigated for recruiting violations?
NCAA Penalizes UI Men's Swim Team For Major Violations
http://news-releases.uiowa.edu/2006/november/110206ncaa-violations.html
What about any woman's sport?
Asst. women’s basketball coach under NCAA investigation
http://ksusentinel.com/sports/asst-women%E2%80%99s-basketball-coach-under-ncaa-investigation/
August 22, 2007-Purdue University (Women’s Basketball)
July 16, 2008-Texas Southern University (Women's Softball, Men's Tennis, Women's Tennis)
March 25, 2009-Texas A&M-Corpus Christi (Men's Tennis, Women's Volleyball)
August 20, 2009-University of Memphis (Men's Basketball, Women's Golf)
November 5, 2009-University of Richmond (Men's Basketball, Women's Basketball, Baseball, Football, Women's Golf, Women's Lacrosse, Women's Track, Indoor, Mixed Track, Outdoor)
http://www.chapelboro.com/pages/10170020.php
The University of West Georgia women’s basketball team will not be playing in the NCAA Division II Women’s Basketball Tournament this season due to an ongoing investigation by the NCAA
http://www.times-georgian.com/view/full_story/3285048/article-NCAA-investigation-ends-UWG-s-season-Wolves-out-of-NCAA-Tournament--university-says-probe-not-targeting-specific-sport
SE Missouri loses two seasons of women's basketball
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncw/news/story?id=3451227
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Exactly.
Woody Hayes was an old man, considerably battered and beaten up by the rigors of life.
It was a temporary lapse of judgement; if he'd been younger it was fire-worthy.
I always thought he should get a slap on the wrist--of course--but certainly not fired.
With age comes wisdom. Allegedly.
No amount of excuse-making, Frank, can account for a football coach who lashes out at an opposing player. Please stop. You're better than that.
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Woody Hayes was an old man, considerably battered and beaten up by the rigors of life.
It was a temporary lapse of judgement; if he'd been younger it was fire-worthy.
I always thought he should get a slap on the wrist--of course--but certainly not fired.
Sorry, but this is bull. I have spent too many years as a leader to accept any excuse for shit behavior.
Woody Hayes was a punk, an old punk to be sure, but a punk regardless for that incident. A head coach is the face and standard bearer for the team; no excuses, no forgiveness.
If you take it upon yourself as the face and standard bearer for a group to act like a punk, then your group will act like punks.
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:-)
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I stand corrected. Thanks for the links. But as I scanned over the violations, I didn't see any that compare to getting a tatto. They were mostly infractions by the university, not the kids, giving away too many scholorships or using ineligible players. Both of those violations affect the game. I still don't think getting a tattoo impacted anything on the field. But OSU will not only live with the consequences, they will get better because of it (wishful thinking from a Buckeye). In fact, they just hired 3-time super bowl champion Mike Vrabel to be linebacker coach and their new head coach Luke Fickell is widely considered to be Ohio's best high school heavyweight wrestler ever. It's always good to get a wrestler to straighten things out. :-)
But I was definitely suprised to read of the violations you provided in your post.
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With age comes wisdom. Allegedly.
Well now, I will frankly admit my opinion is a minority one; it's possible I'm the only person who thinks this way.
But we have different standards, different expectations, of an infant as compared with a 20-year-old as compared with a 40-year-old as compared with a 60-year-old.
If younger college football coaches of the time, such as Tom Osborne or Barry Switzer, had done what Woody Hayes did, they should've been fired.
Number one, being younger, they would've been expected to have more self-control, not losing their head in the passion of a moment. Number two, if fired, they were still young enough to go onto something else in which they'd be successful; they'd have time to redeem themselves.
Woody Hayes was on the down-side of life, a life remarkable in its composure and equilibrium, and slowly starting to deteriorate--that's what happens with ageing. He had already more than demonstrated his good clean sportsmanship and awesome leadership all those preceding decades. It's too bad he didn't continue in that manner to the end of his career, but older people fall apart.
God gave us judgement, the ability to discern differences, and since it's a gift from God, we're supposed to use it. Of course human judgement is varied and arbitrary, and hotly disputed--but having the same expectations, the same standards, for all to me seems a bit much.
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Number one, being younger, they would've been expected to have more self-control, not losing their head in the passion of a moment. Number two, if fired, they were still young enough to go onto something else in which they'd be successful; they'd have time to redeem themselves.
Woody Hayes was on the down-side of life, a life remarkable in its composure and equilibrium, and slowly starting to deteriorate--that's what happens with ageing. He had already more than demonstrated his good clean sportsmanship and awesome leadership all those preceding decades. It's too bad he didn't continue in that manner to the end of his career, but older people fall apart.
God gave us judgement, the ability to discern differences, and since it's a gift from God, we're supposed to use it. Of course human judgement is varied and arbitrary, and hotly disputed--but having the same expectations, the same standards, for all to me seems a bit much.
Very enlightening....
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Well now, I will frankly admit my opinion is a minority one; it's possible I'm the only person who thinks this way.
But we have different standards, different expectations, of an infant as compared with a 20-year-old as compared with a 40-year-old as compared with a 60-year-old.
If younger college football coaches of the time, such as Tom Osborne or Barry Switzer, had done what Woody Hayes did, they should've been fired.
Number one, being younger, they would've been expected to have more self-control, not losing their head in the passion of a moment. Number two, if fired, they were still young enough to go onto something else in which they'd be successful; they'd have time to redeem themselves.
Woody Hayes was on the down-side of life, a life remarkable in its composure and equilibrium, and slowly starting to deteriorate--that's what happens with ageing. He had already more than demonstrated his good clean sportsmanship and awesome leadership all those preceding decades. It's too bad he didn't continue in that manner to the end of his career, but older people fall apart.
God gave us judgement, the ability to discern differences, and since it's a gift from God, we're supposed to use it. Of course human judgement is varied and arbitrary, and hotly disputed--but having the same expectations, the same standards, for all to me seems a bit much.
Frank, this is unmitigated hogwash. Bitchslapped for being a bullshit artist.
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Very enlightening....
Come on, now, sir; surely one has different expectations, different standards, for a parent who's 40 years old, as compared with a parent who's 80 years old.
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Frank, this is unmitigated hogwash. Bitchslapped for being a bullshit artist.
Well, I admitted that judgement is arbitrary, and subject to heated dispute.
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Come on, now, sir; surely one has different expectations, different standards, for a parent who's 40 years old, as compared with a parent who's 80 years old.
Frank, at the time of the 1978 Gator Bowl in which he punched or slapped at the Clemson player, Hayes was 65 years old.
Again, are you trying to say these things, one, that Hayes was aged, feeble, and no longer able to discern proper judgment at the age of 65; and two, that he was not granted any type of consideration due to his long tenure and success at OSU?
Do you not see how silly your POV is? The football head coach at OSU, the man whom many emulated, admired and respected, crossed a line that cannot EVER be crossed by a head coach (it's perfectly okay to get blow jobs in the WH by a sitting president, but I digress).
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Come on, now, sir; surely one has different expectations, different standards, for a parent who's 40 years old, as compared with a parent who's 80 years old.
No, I don't, and don't call me Shirley.
:-)
If anything, I expect the 80 year old parent to act less like the child than a 40 year old parent.
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Sorry, but this is bull. I have spent too many years as a leader to accept any excuse for shit behavior.
Woody Hayes was a punk, an old punk to be sure, but a punk regardless for that incident. A head coach is the face and standard bearer for the team; no excuses, no forgiveness.
If you take it upon yourself as the face and standard bearer for a group to act like a punk, then your group will act like punks.
This. Never saw Holtz, JoePa, Bowden, Bear, Neiland, Vaught, or any of the other legends doing this shit.
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No, I don't, and don't call me Shirley.
:-)
If anything, I expect the 80 year old parent to act less like the child than a 40 year old parent.
This is an argument that's been going on for thirty years now; I realize that I long ago lost in the court of public opinion, but one carries on the good fight to the end.
In the analogy of the parents, which I gave incompletely, a 40-year-old parent who hits someone is probably a bully. An 80-year-old parent who hits someone is probably afflicted with dementia of some sort. The motives are different, and so the reaction needs to be different.
Woody Hayes was neither a middle-aged man or a senescent invalid, but somewhere in between the two.
I don't think it was necessary to have fired him. A slap on the wrist, "hey, that's not cool, don't do it again," and given his nature and underrated humility, he probably would have resigned a few days later anyway, and been able to live out the rest of his days chastened but still a hero for all that he had accomplished the decades up to this unfortunate lapse of character, this possible cerebral-vascular accident.
One doesn't need to slap an old man around; age does that on its own.
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Again, are you trying to say these things, one, that Hayes was aged, feeble, and no longer able to discern proper judgment at the age of 65; and two, that he was not granted any type of consideration due to his long tenure and success at OSU?
What I'm saying is because of his age, even if 65 isn't that old, he was perhaps more susceptible to lapses in judgement, than he had been when he was younger. I suspect because of the intense pressures of football coaching, one actually ages faster than his years (which can be noticed with Tom Osborne), and so while Woody Hayes was 65 in chronological years, the wear-and-tear of the job made him more like, say 75 or more.
I don't see where he was granted any consideration for all his contributions to Ohio State, and Ohio State football. He was fired. Boom. Right away. Immediately kicked out the door. (Or at least that's the way I recall it.)
Far far better had it been if the Board of Regents had said, "Hey, you screwed up. It's not cool. Don't do it again." After which the inevitable--a few days of contemplation, and Woody Hayes would've retired on his own.
Do you not see how silly your POV is? The football head coach at OSU, the man whom many emulated, admired and respected, crossed a line that cannot EVER be crossed by a head coach (it's perfectly okay to get blow jobs in the WH by a sitting president, but I digress).
I'm sure that line's been crossed many times by a head coach; we had one such instance a few years ago, when Nebraska then-coach Bill Callahan assaulted an Oklahoma player. Caught on television and everything.
However, I'm also aware that "everybody else does it" is NO excuse.
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In the analogy of the parents, which I gave incompletely, a 40-year-old parent who hits someone is probably a bully. An 80-year-old parent who hits someone is probably afflicted with dementia of some sort. The motives are different, and so the reaction needs to be different.
Then, by that standard, Mr Hayes needed to be relieved of his command long before he had an opportunity to embarrass himself, his team, school, city, and state. If his age had warped him to the degree of dementia, he had no business being there in the first place.
I don't think it was necessary to have fired him. A slap on the wrist, "hey, that's not cool, don't do it again," and given his nature and underrated humility, he probably would have resigned a few days later anyway, and been able to live out the rest of his days chastened but still a hero for all that he had accomplished the decades up to this unfortunate lapse of character, this possible cerebral-vascular accident.
Interesting.....
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Then, by that standard, Mr Hayes needed to be relieved of his command long before he had an opportunity to embarrass himself, his team, school, city, and state. If his age had warped him to the degree of dementia, he had no business being there in the first place.
That's true; when one starts to slip, it's a good time to quit.
But of course that goes against human nature and the human ego.
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But of course that goes against human nature and the human ego.
So does making excuses for bad behavior. :wink:
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What I'm saying is because of his age, even if 65 isn't that old, he was perhaps more susceptible to lapses in judgement, than he had been when he was younger. I suspect because of the intense pressures of football coaching, one actually ages faster than his years (which can be noticed with Tom Osborne), and so while Woody Hayes was 65 in chronological years, the wear-and-tear of the job made him more like, say 75 or more.
Wasp's comment is spot on. He shouldn't have been there if he was so mentally infirm that he didn't have the sense not to assault an opposing player.
I don't see where he was granted any consideration for all his contributions to Ohio State, and Ohio State football. He was fired. Boom. Right away. Immediately kicked out the door. (Or at least that's the way I recall it.)
Neither one of us was there when the incident happened and the decision was made, so we don't really know what was considered and what wasn't. I have to assume, however, that Hayes' long, illustrious career with OSU was given SOME kind of consideration. Not to do so would have been illogical and likely ill-considered. You just don't shitcan legends without carefully evaluating the evidence and the situation.
Far far better had it been if the Board of Regents had said, "Hey, you screwed up. It's not cool. Don't do it again." After which the inevitable--a few days of contemplation, and Woody Hayes would've retired on his own.
Sheer speculation on your part, Frank. You have no idea what Hayes would have done.
I'm sure that line's been crossed many times by a head coach; we had one such instance a few years ago, when Nebraska then-coach Bill Callahan assaulted an Oklahoma player. Caught on television and everything.
However, I'm also aware that "everybody else does it" is NO excuse.
that's the first thing you've said in this post that actually makes sense. I'm truly stunned, Frank. For a straight-up, gracious, and accommodating fellow, your own judgment is clouded a great deal by this incident.
Hayes was fired for all the right reasons. Period. Whether his assault on that Clemson player was borne of frustration, anxiety, rage, dementia, or just plain crankiness, he had to go.
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So does making excuses for bad behavior. :wink:
Well, maybe, perhaps.
I lost this argument a long time ago--about five minutes after it first started more than thirty years ago--but damn it, I stick by my man. The only college football coach greater than Woody Hayes was Bear Bryant.