The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: GOBUCKS on June 27, 2011, 10:28:04 PM
-
Well, know-it-all nadin is looking for subjects where she can lecture the DUmbasses without getting them all riled up over her arrogance and condescension. She needs a subject as far removed from canned milk, seppuku, trends, and revolution as possible. How about space aliens? Great idea, if she can keep it out of the dungeon. So far, so good.
nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Mon Jun-27-11 09:48 PM
Original message
On alien life, and whether it is possible
every time we have a story... we have the same thing... no it could not, yes it could... yada...yada... yada.
So let me propose a scenario... NOT BASED ON ACTUAL SCIENCE beyond the Drake Equation... as well as actual, honest to goodness... human history.
Let's assume for a second that ET actually comes and lands in front of insert home of head of government here... you know the famous take me to your leader scenario.
So far so good.
Here are a few things implied by this... a few philosophical and a few technical.
1.- We are NOT alone... perhaps not even the center of the universe This will lead to a small crisis of faith for at leaset three major world religions... I mean Genesis one is a bitch and genesis two is not that well known... (even if that should be the actual explanation even for them)
2.- yes, our lovely aliens were able to cross space time... and we have NO FRAKING idea how they did that.
See this leads to this little problem... not only are we not alone, but if these aliens are NOT friendly, regardless of Independence day and good product placement... who doesn't love that Apple used to insert a virus? ACHOOO! We really are that behind the power curve. It will be indeed like oh ... the Aztecs, still stone based civilization, trying to face the Spaniards, who used lead ball, steel and gun powder. This is why some nobodies like Hawking, have actually said that contact with aliens is not that bright of an idea.
Now if ET happens to be friendly perhaps they can use their so far more advanced technology to help us solve some of our problems, such as global warming. If they are not that friendly, perhaps we wil not have to ponder number one.
Oh and why would they come?
Well intellectual curiosity comes to mind. I mean why send anthropologists to the Amazon to make contact with cultures in the depth of the Amazon? WHo knows Gliesse 589 might have a similar class...
Resources, why did Cortez go to Tenochtitlan? to cure that disease of his that could only be cured with Gold... (Ok greed cannot be cured, but you get the point)
It's there... why else did we have people climb Everest?
The reasons for aliens to cross that ocean (assuming for a second that it is possible... and lord knows I am aware of the problems) are many. Some, i suspect, we cannot even imagine since they are not part of our nature.
This is what? Oh yes, so far the fodder of the science fiction writer... in space operas our aliens tend to be violent, greedy and good fodder for fiction... but on a more realistic matter, ET at this point will likely be of the less advanced, with perhaps two to five actual civilizations at a time that could make contact. Given that species on earth have an average 300,000 lifespan... the time we have to make contact is rather limited in a geological time frame...
On a philosophical POV tough even accepting that there is a possibility that there is life OUT THERE, means we are not that unique.. .and that life is not that unique. To some this is a threat, a philosophical threat.
Of course on the more humorous answers to this from the 1950s, that book is a cook book!
Oh and it goes with out saying, if this scenario ever came reality...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1375155
God, you know, every time I read one of her impossibly self-adoring crapfests, I can't help but feel more sympathy for poor Mr. know-it-all.
RKP5637 (1000+ posts) Mon Jun-27-11 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
3. Hawking makes some good points IMO. Also, many can't even accept gay marriage, imagine
some trying to wrap their heads around an alien visit! And any advanced civilization trying to wrap their heads? around us.
Well, I sort of see RKPnumbers' point. Martians and queers are both kinda freaky.
nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Mon Jun-27-11 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I know... it is quite hard of a concept actually
and it implies humans are not that central to life in the universe.
nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Mon Jun-27-11 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. True, in some ways, but I am not that hard on people
things have gotten really weird over the last five hundred years.
The earth is not flat (nor was it flat for navigators of the era, but)
It is not the center of the solar system... I mean poor Galileo paid for that one.
It is not at the center of our stellar arm... or the galaxy (we'd be in deep shit, black hole and all)
The galaxy is not at the center of it's group... and so it goes.
Now we learn that we might be part of many universes...
We are really becoming more and more insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
I mean Sol is one of 300,000 suns in the galaxy... okay it is a nice slow burning star, but you get the idea.
And how big the universe is... well it is really since Hubble, so we need to give people time to adjust to the idea... we are really that small of a speck in the grand scheme of things.
Speaking for the people of earth, we really apprercite it that nutcase nadin isn't going all ghetto on us.
RKP5637 (1000+ posts) Mon Jun-27-11 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Yep, like a speck of sand on an extremely huge beach.
Wow! What a profound, unique thought! Way to go, DUmmy RKPnumbers. No one ever thought of that analogy before.
It's so profound and unique, I wonder if nutcase nadin is using it in her brilliant iPod-produced fiction?
nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Mon Jun-27-11 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Worst, more like an atom, perhaps a quark
and yes, I am playing with the concept in fiction.
If it quarks like a DUAC...
nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Mon Jun-27-11 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Why I mentioned the Drake Equation. I agree with you
we are far from alone...
But every time we mention this we get the but, but, space and light speed... well if anybody is capable of travelling those distances ... even in robot form... we are talking of that much more of an "advanced" civilization.
Of course if anybody out there has Voyager crash land in their back yard... not likely in the expected survival of humanity btw
Always, it's the Drake equation. Someone has been on the google again!
nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Mon Jun-27-11 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. I went for the most radical
in reality even sending robotic probes that can go at even half the speed of light implies a huge society investment, and a technological leap... though not as high as FTL travel with actual aliens on board. And don't get me started on the one way ticket nature of the trip under current knowledge.
Number one is still valid... we are not alone... a hell of a proposition for many on planet earth. It will still lead to a crisis of faith for many.
Now for a second let's entertain the start of your post... visiting the trailer parks would make sense if you wanted to hide your presence from the elites... but still have actual contact with the locals... I mean who will believe Aunt Bertha?
And I should add that to my file folder of humorous shorts. my mom met an alien, or something like that. The take me to your leader was done to death in the 50s... but i was going into both the technical matter and the philosophical matter, I suspect there is resistance to the mere concept, for philosophical reasons, just as a few people (what is it 45%) resist evolution on religious reasons.
Oh, no! The problem is, in Horse with no Brain's dusty, crappy Texas trailer park, half the guys there look like ET. Which one is the Martian?
-
The only aliens that exist are the illegal ones crossing our borders.
-
What the hell is that crazy bitch smoking?
-
What the hell is that crazy bitch smoking?
It's that damn Drake equation again.
-
It's that damn Drake equation again.
I would have guessed the heat is getting to her, but she doesn't even live where it reaches triple digits daily in the summer months.
-
Uh oh. I think I just detected one of those bullies.
anthroman (13 posts) Mon Jun-27-11 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
37. Who says they're alien?
They could be earthlings but evolved and doing backward time travel. There are also reports of several different types or species of aliens. Its.....quite complex...
And they already flew over Washington, talked to Eisenhower, it was all on Coast to Coast...
Anyone who copies...nadin's...constant, annoying use of the lame ellipsis...is...a bully.
But nadinbrzhzhzhski is stuck on pretension...and affectation. She is smarter than...you.
I. Would. Prefer. Those. Stupid. Pittian. Dots.
-
Well if the aliens were to sit up there and observe for a bit - they'd probably get on google , find one of nadin's whacked out screeds about them and fly in the opposite direction as fast as they could.
-
Well if the aliens were to sit up there and observe for a bit - they'd probably get on google , find one of nadin's whacked out screeds about them and fly in the opposite direction as fast as they could.
Or, they would read a thread from DU and blow this rock to dust before leaving, thinking/knowing there was no intelligent life.
:lmao:
-
(http://citycynic.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/foxmulder2.jpg)
Sigh, I miss Fox Mulder.
-
I would have guessed the heat is getting to her, but she doesn't even live where it reaches triple digits daily in the summer months.
Jess -- did you cut your hair? I love your new avatar. Your hair looks great!
-
I'm disappointed. Nadin didn't use her signature phrase until several posts into the thread...and yes, I'm talking about "and yes".
With that out of the way, I've always wondered how the existence of life in the universe would have any effect on someone's faith. And I also don't understand the problem with Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.
-
nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Mon Jun-27-11 09:48 PM
Original message
bahblahblah
So let me propose a scenario... NOT BASED ON ACTUAL SCIENCE beyond the Drake Equation... as well as actual, honest to goodness... human history.
Let's assume for a second that ET actually comes and lands in front of insert home of head of government here... you know the famous take me to your leader scenario.
So far so good.
Here are a few things implied by this... a few philosophical and a few technical.
1.- We are NOT alone... perhaps not even the center of the universe This will lead to a small crisis of faith for at leaset three major world religions... I mean Genesis one is a bitch and genesis two is not that well known... (even if that should be the actual explanation even for them)
2.- yes, our lovely aliens were able to cross space time... and we have NO FRAKING idea how they did that.
Nads, deary, the Drake equation is a mathmatical excersise with only a hint of science.
2.- yes, our lovely aliens were able to cross space time... and we have NO FRAKING idea how they did that.
OH, BS. :bs: If you're not sure, how can you honestly say with such certainty, they did??
Nads, you're a loser, and a dang poorly educated one, at that.
-
Yes DUmmies there are space aliens and a God and on the eighth day God said, "Jesus, what a mess I have made...oh well, so much for the proto-type. I think I'll start over over here somewhere and see if I can't get it right this time."
-
Yes DUmmies there are space aliens and a God and on the eighth day God said, "Jesus, what a mess I have made...oh well, so much for the proto-type. I think I'll start over over here somewhere and see if I can't get it right this time." and created conservatives.
:-) :-)
-
What the hell is that crazy bitch smoking?
I think all that milk she bought finally went bad.
-
I think all that milk she bought finally went bad.
not bad i think its just fermented and shes drunk on her coco pops, either that or she really is the biggest know it all on the interwebs. Personally i think she is just a sad sack who feels they need to show everyone how smart they are and lives to be told that.
-
I don't know why they are so persistant in believing that the discovery of intelligent alien life would be so damaging to faith. The Bible doesn't preclude the possibility of alien life. Now what would be funny is if aliens land here and DU finds out that Jesus called them to faith and they developed intra and inter galactic travel in order to evangelize what they thought were pagan worlds. That would really upset the liberal/neo-pagan apple cart.
-
I'm disappointed. Nadin didn't use her signature phrase until several posts into the thread...and yes, I'm talking about "and yes".
With that out of the way, I've always wondered how the existence of life in the universe would have any effect on someone's faith. And I also don't understand the problem with Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.
I know that it would not shake my faith one iota because I am not foolish enough to believe that God has revealed all the mysteries of the Universe to Mankind. We are not possessed of perfect knowledge. God has imparted to us what we need to know of Him and His plan for us and how to reach Him through salvation and it is sufficient for our time in this earthly body.
-
I know that it would not shake my faith one iota because I am not foolish enough to believe that God has revealed all the mysteries of the Universe to Mankind. We are not possessed of perfect knowledge. God has imparted to us what we need to know of Him and His plan for us and how to reach Him through salvation and it is sufficient for our time in this earthly body.
I got into a bit of a spat with a Sunday School teacher once about extraterrestrials. One of the guys in class mentioned that the night before he had seen a ufo. He didn't say he'd seen a space ship or anything like that. He just said he saw something flying that he couldn't identify. The Sunday School teacher actually begin sort of making fun of the guy and talking about little green men. I finally asked him what his problem was. He said he was making fun because ETs didn't exist. I asked why he was so sure of that. His answer was that he was sure because the Bible doesn't say they exist. I mentioned that the Bible has no mention of them NOT existing. Then I asked if he existed. He said he did so I asked him where he, specifically, was mentioned in the Bible.
-
not bad i think its just fermented and shes drunk on her coco pops, either that or she really is the biggest know it all on the interwebs. Personally i think she is just a sad sack who feels they need to show everyone how smart they are and lives to be told that.
No. She mixes crack with her cornflakes. It's pretty common over at the DUmp.
-
yes, our lovely aliens were able to cross space time
That's another word she likes, "lovely." It's weird. She was yammering on about eschatology one day, and she referred to "lovely, lovely eschatology." It's an odd use of the word.
-
That's another word she likes, "lovely." It's weird. She was yammering on about eschatology one day, and she referred to "lovely, lovely eschatology." It's an odd use of the word.
You're correct in that respect.
Then again, Nads isn't exactly un-odd. :whistling:
Edit because the stupid apostrophy button doesn't work very well.
I'm going to rename it my DUmmie button.
-
Youre correct in that respect.
Then again, Nads isn't exactly un-odd.
Nutcase uses "lovely" that way intentionally. She loves to go faux-folksy, too, in her
constant use of "them pesky" whatevers. The English words she has never caught on to are:
Condescension
Arrogance
Affectation
Egomaniacal
And her spelling is worse than the poor disabled children who are supposed to be in the care of Proud2BDUmb Anne Pritchett, while she surfs the DUmp.
-
It's that damn Drake equation again.
A totally useless formulation that pre-supposes what it presumes to answer, i.e. that ETIs exist. It essentially says, "to prove ETIs exist I shall give you a formula that will always yield the result that ETIs exist so long as the variables are long enough."
Just because you have a few trillions attempts at something doesn't mean you will ever be able to attain a desired result. Possibility must be accompanied by potentiality.
Example, we're all familiar with roulette wheels with numbers between 0 and 36 colored red or black and 1 green space. A spin of the wheel represents possibility but because its physics of its colors and numbers are hard-wired its potentiality is limitied. In other words, no matter how many times you spin that wheel you will never gain a result of: Plaid 128 because there is no potential for it. It doesn't matter that the colors and numbers exist on the wheel in base forms, the mere act of adding energy into their environment (spinning the wheel) is not sufficient to cause the colors to meld into the pattern of plaid or a number sequence beyond the range already crafted.
The "chance" argument is a very poor argument and I am stunned at how often it is repeated even amongst/by the supposedly educated (nada not included).
This is NOT to say ETI cannot exist but only that this particular argument is too weak for those who wish to express faith in the notion of the existence of ETIs.
-
And I also don't understand the problem with Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.
Genesis 1 tells of creation and Genesis 2, beginning in verse 4, is a re-telling of some the days in more detail. Some try to claim that the Bible is describing 2 creations, but it's the same creation with a different narritive providing additional info.
.
-
A totally useless formulation that pre-supposes what it presumes to answer, i.e. that ETIs exist. It essentially says, "to prove ETIs exist I shall give you a formula that will always yield the result that ETIs exist so long as the variables are long enough."
Liberals a very ANTI_SCIENCE. This is exactly what they do with global warming. Input any values into Mann's computer program and it spits out the world is getting hotter.
Liberals are emotional and not logical and use emotion to appear logical. After I have brought forth facts to prove my point in a debate with a libtard, they universally reply one of two things.
1. Yeah but don't you think..... To which I reply, I theorize ad then run experiments to prove my theory. Rarely do I disregard the results in favor of my theory.
2. I can get facts/statistics/history to rebut your claim. To which I reply, bring them on. That is what debate is about.
Both result in the leftard insulting me and/or walking away.
-
A totally useless formulation that pre-supposes what it presumes to answer, i.e. that ETIs exist. It essentially says, "to prove ETIs exist I shall give you a formula that will always yield the result that ETIs exist so long as the variables are long enough."Just because you have a few trillions attempts at something doesn't mean you will ever be able to attain a desired result. Possibility must be accompanied by potentiality.
Example, we're all familiar with roulette wheels with numbers between 0 and 36 colored red or black and 1 green space. A spin of the wheel represents possibility but because its physics of its colors and numbers are hard-wired its potentiality is limitied. In other words, no matter how many times you spin that wheel you will never gain a result of: Plaid 128 because there is no potential for it. It doesn't matter that the colors and numbers exist on the wheel in base forms, the mere act of adding energy into their environment (spinning the wheel) is not sufficient to cause the colors to meld into the pattern of plaid or a number sequence beyond the range already crafted.
The "chance" argument is a very poor argument and I am stunned at how often it is repeated even amongst/by the supposedly educated (nada not included).
This is NOT to say ETI cannot exist but only that this particular argument is too weak for those who wish to express faith in the notion of the existence of ETIs.
Brillant analysis.
-
We all know that the answer is 42. But Nadin knows the question. :rotf: