The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: franksolich on June 10, 2011, 07:52:02 PM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=216x6607
Oh my.
MorningGlow (1000+ posts) Mon May-30-11 08:52 AM
Original message
Question about word count
So my novel is THISCLOSE to being totally done--enough that, within days, I will be able to safely query agents and publishers without frantically writing at the same time. H'ray, huzzah, and all that.
Trouble is, I'm about 14K over the usual top word limit for my genre (100K). Conundrum: Should I hold back on querying until I get the word count down, or should I take a chance that some agent or publisher out there won't mind a few thousand extra words?
I've been pretty brutal so far, and I think I could probably cut a couple thousand more without the story sounding like...well, like I cut thousands of words from the plot just to reduce the word count. But I'm sure I won't get down to 100K.
sybylla (1000+ posts) Mon May-30-11 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. I've been told both - but I would recommend editing first.
I had an agent who I pitched in person tell me, "Why fuss over cutting it now? Wait until an editor gets a hold of it."
But every book I've ever read on querying says that you should only offer finished works that fit the agents' parameters - including word count,etc.
I started querying with a high word count and got nowhere. I cut it down and started getting a better response - even had a request for a manuscript.
My advice - edit it now. Get it down close to the target number. I know cutting 14,000 words is terrifying. I've been there. I cut 40,000 from my first draft (which would never have gotten that big had I been paying attention earlier in the process).
The way to approach editing is to believe that you owe it to the story to present it in the best shape possible.
The best friend I had while I was editing was the book, Writer's Little Helper by James V. Smith. It's full of very good advice on the little tweaks and adjustments and 101 things every writer needs to fix or trim from their novel. It also has great tools for analyzing scenes and chapters so that when you're done editing, it really is that can't-put-down novel.
Once I could envision my story in a better form, editing became much easier.
MorningGlow (1000+ posts) Mon May-30-11 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Exactly the issue--I've heard both sides as well
Sticklers for Da Rulez say one must, must, MUST fit into the accepted word count range before approaching agents and/or publishers, or it's query suicide. But even my former editor (magazine editor) said "Who cares? Editors are going to cut. Don't worry about it." So I don't know WHAT to do.
I'm also not sure what else to cut. When it was a rambling first draft (okay, second or third draft), it was 135K, so I have cut quite a bit, and it wasn't as painful as I expected. However, I'm getting down to the bone now. I'm considering reducing the main character's relationship with her dad, even though I think it's pretty important (she starts out a doormat, and her father is one of the people in her life wiping his shoes on her--figuratively speaking).
I was so proud of myself last night--I cut a scene that I adored. Tough love and all that. Did a word count...it lost me less than 1,000 words. Sheesh.
SheilaT (1000+ posts) Tue May-31-11 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. My guess is that if you're not already an established writer, you really should get your novel down to the normally accepted word-count.
I also guess that your manuscript should be, in your opinion, absolutely ready to be set in type exactly as is. Of course, that's not what will happen, but the closer you are to a "perfect" manuscript, the happier the agents and publishers will be. There's a limit to just how much editing they're going to be willing to do.
MorningGlow (1000+ posts) Wed Jun-01-11 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. True nuff
The good thing is that I'm already a professional published writer, although not a published novelist. I'm also an editor, so my current editors love me because my pieces are always "layout ready" (need barely any work on their part). But yeah, publishing folks are skittish about "new" authors, and I get the sense that one false move and it's Rejection City.
SheilaT (1000+ posts) Wed Jun-01-11 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I'm under the impression that if you haven't already published in a particular, specific genre or kind of writing, you're a "newcomer", unless perhaps you are one of the already really huge names who is guaranteed to sell large numbers of books no matter what. Merely being published in one area seems to be of little help otherwise. Except that you already know about proper formatting and how to behave around editors and so on.
MorningGlow (1000+ posts) Wed Jun-01-11 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Oh yes, of course
I didn't mean to imply that I "expect" to get a fiction book deal just because I get paid for writing other types of stuff--not at all. My fiction must be taken on its own merits; I am a newcomer not to the profession, but to the genre (attempting to get it published, at least--I've been writing fiction all my life).
What I meant was that if an agent or publisher gives it a read, they'll find that it's well-written--no errors (or very few, and those of the typo sort) on top of decent style/grammar/story structure/etc., which is attractive to an editor (less work required on their part). I cannot tell you how BADLY some people write, yet get published because they have a good idea. (O the things I have seen as an editor--!) If a publisher decides to take on a poorly written book with a good idea, s/he is well aware that a LOT of collaborative work has to go into it before it's ready for that first printing. Some publishers take that gamble, usually on established writers, as you said, but some don't want to bother investing the time and effort.
And, of course, a publisher is less likely to take a chance on a manuscript by a newbie who's also a poor writer, albeit with a good idea. So at the very least, my skilled writing will elicit a "phew" from an editor if they read a sample. Hoping that gives me at least a little bit of an edge!
Orrex (1000+ posts) Sat Jun-04-11 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
7. Eliminate the spaces between half of your words and you cut your wordcount by 25%
I dunno.
franksolich doesn't mess with no word-counts.
franksolich writes a story until it's done, and that's it.
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MorningGlow (1000+ posts) Wed Jun-01-11 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #3
The good thing is that I'm already a professional published writer, although not a published novelist.
Just like Pitt! I wonder who pays DUmmy MorningGlow's vanity publisher?
All these DUmmies running around with manuscripts are just like the sucker who draws the beagle head and gets accepted into Famous Artists School. Their chance of getting a legit agent, let alone commercial publication, is exactly zero. The mere fact of their presence at the DUmp is proof that their writing is crap.
Know-it-all nadinbrzhzhzhzski, as we speak, is in Mexico, worrying about her stupid parrots, and working on her novel on her iPad.
Poor, stupid Beth, although she's been validated by the DUmbasses as a writer and thinker, couldn't get a business card card published.
Nearly all the DUmmies are writers. The only DUmmy worth reading is Larry L.
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Primitive could probably reduce 14K+ words just by cutting all references to Dear Leader being the messiah and how it's all Bushs' fault, but then she wouldn't have anything to submit.
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I've been writing fiction all my life
Or at least since joining DU?
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I've been writing fiction all my life
Is Pam back already?
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Eliminate the spaces between half of your words and you cut your wordcount by 25%
Is this DUmmie alluding to the other DUmmie's possible inability to comprehend compound words?
How wrong of them to under estimate their ability. Perhaps there will be fire works later from this. I'll have to book mark it for later reading.
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Tedious blathering about nothing, is a DU staple.
Ask Willy the Pittster about that...if you dare.
I'm sure he'll get right back to you in twenty-four business hours.
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Tedious blathering about nothing, is a DU staple.
Ask Willy the Pittster about that...if you dare.
I'm sure he'll get right back to you in twenty-four business hours.
Sometimes I am hurt by the primitive's general comments they direct towards us. It's a thankless job, sitting here, reading through their comments, day in and day out. If they took us out of the equation of the people who listen to them, they would be left with zero listeners.
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Sometimes I am hurt by the primitive's general comments they direct towards us. It's a thankless job, sitting here, reading through their comments, day in and day out. If they took us out of the equation of the people who listen to laugh at them, they would be left with zero listeners.
Hope you don't mind the slight change. :-)
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No, not at all. Yours is more accurate. Sometimes I get those two confused. :-)
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The pleasure is mine, Sir. :cheersmate: