The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: dandi on May 29, 2011, 06:06:24 PM
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Probably friggin' Freepers. How dare they want a piece of land and a home on it, away from the hustle and bustle and crime? Everyone knows "urban sprawl" is a result of racism, anyway.
underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun May-29-11 11:13 AM
Original message
Urban sprawl and the tornadoes
Weather patterns, urban sprawl, human nature add up to extraordinary tornado death toll
Contributing to the massive loss of life is the growth of urban areas, suggested Marshall Shepherd, a professor of atmospheric science at the University of Georgia.
“Historically, the central business districts of cities have not been hit that frequently,†he explained. But as you increase the land area covered by homes and businesses, he said, “you’re increasing the size of the dartboard.â€
If the Tuscaloosa and Joplin tornadoes had each been a few miles to the south, on farmland, little would be heard about them, Ashley said, but when extremely violent tornadoes mingle with urban sprawl “you’re going to have a disaster.â€
“A lot of it is complacency,†Ashley said. “The population seems to be becoming desensitized to nature. I don’t know why.â€
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/weather-patterns...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1193162#1193219
underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun May-29-11 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. I had been wondering about this and stumbled onto the article
This, of course, is not to blame the people we just need to do a better job of planning including NOT okaying new neigborhoods just because there is a field there.
You've got to have the gubmint telling those poor, dumb people where to live.
high density (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun May-29-11 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
2. Seems kind of obvious?
Edited on Sun May-29-11 11:19 AM by high density
When you build a CVS and a gas station on every corner, you then have more CVS and gas stations exposed to potential natural disasters.
Yeah, but gas stations are where we get so many of those fabulous Bouncies.
underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun May-29-11 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I think the answer is in better housing planning
just because there is an empty field it doesn't mean you have to okay new construction. Some new construction is needed of course but we already know that there is ample supply (really over supply) of homes and apartments. Building new ones is not needed.
I know that sounds like a over-control thing but there is a need to plan and sometimes say NO to building proposals.
hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun May-29-11 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Just as an added poiint, sprawl means more time spent getting around -
instead of shopping at a central downtown, we drive out to a mall. Compare the construction of those empty buildings down town with the typical disposable cement block construction we inflict on ourselves today. No one ever painted a picture of the local mall and hung it on a wall, except maybe the developer!
Even if the buildings are torn down, the footprint can be reused. The utilities are already in place. Many cities are doing this already, tearing down derelict housing and selling the lots for a nominal fee to people already living in the neighborhood. The lots can become space for a garage, eliminating on street parking; a site for a new house or simply added green space.
Not everyone wants to live elbow-to-elbow with your funky ass.
hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun May-29-11 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Just as an added poiint, sprawl means more time spent getting around -
instead of shopping at a central downtown, we drive out to a mall. Compare the construction of those empty buildings down town with the typical disposable cement block construction we inflict on ourselves today. No one ever painted a picture of the local mall and hung it on a wall, except maybe the developer!
Even if the buildings are torn down, the footprint can be reused. The utilities are already in place. Many cities are doing this already, tearing down derelict housing and selling the lots for a nominal fee to people already living in the neighborhood. The lots can become space for a garage, eliminating on street parking; a site for a new house or simply added green space.
underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun May-29-11 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Our mall has a hotel IN it
a "boutique hotel" :eyes:
http://www.hotel-sierra.com/locations/richmond_west/def...
The horror!
Man, they really hate those malls, don't they? Must be an anti-corporate thingy.
xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun May-29-11 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. maybe we start with the notion that we can't just live where ever we want?
put more time & effort into good urban planning & design.
get more accurate research for planners & developers & ask they be sesitive to the data & not be afraid to say no.
outerSanctum (116 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun May-29-11 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. That's a great idea!
We need a whole new bureaucracy that will determine that a tornado MAY hit in a portion of a proposed building site sometime in the next 50 - 100 years. They will then be able to determine that the risk is too high and people should not allowed to be able to build there.
Sounds like a plan!
You're not going to last long, making fun of gubmit bureaucracies like that.
xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun May-29-11 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. better than the chaos of do what ever the **** you want ask every body else to pay for your mistakes
Isn't that pretty much the liberal mantra? Besides, is that what you told the victims of Katrina, living below sea level in a coastal town in a hurricane zone? Also, unlike that or building on a fault line, a tornado can strike pretty much anywhere.
underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun May-29-11 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Also - as you build new homes you have to build or expand schools
fire departments
police
hospitals
utility maintenance
road work
etc.
outerSanctum (116 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun May-29-11 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. You're right.... All those jobs are a terrible thing!
NT
You again! Oh, you're going to get such a smack!
Mist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun May-29-11 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
10. Apparently we are ludicrously over-built w/r/t commercial property, something like
30% or more is empty. Repurposing such properties for residential or mixed-use would be a way of dealing with housing needs. Much better than the brainless sprawl we've seen for decades.
What if I don't want to live in a partitioned-off warehouse?
Taitertots (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun May-29-11 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
14. Population increases and tornadoes
More people means more people are going to get hit by X, Y or Z. This has nothing to do with urban, rural, sub-urban...
At least one DUmmy gets it.
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I thought tornadoes only hit trailer parks. ::)
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I think the DUmmies can now be labeled as pioneering survivalists. If we'd all just live in our mommy's basement, we'd knock out urban sprawl AND we'd be in the safest place in the event of tornados. :rotf:
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun May-29-11 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Our mall has a hotel IN it
a "boutique hotel" :eyes:
http://www.hotel-sierra.c...cations/richmond_west/def...
There's one going into the mall a half-mile from where I'm typing this now. It would seem that, if the area couldn't support it, it wouldn't be going in there. It would seem that the sane among Conrad Hilton's line think that our town can support having one. Go figure!
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So, the primitives think that we should all live in a congested little place so when a disaster does hit, it results in maximum casualties.
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My God the DUmmies actually believe that they should be able to decide where people live now.
The whole concept of freedom is totally lost on these nitwits.
The simple fact of the matter is no matter where one builds there will be some kind of risk, whether flood, fire, tornado, or whatever other disaster that is possible.
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We'll remember this thread when the next big earthquake demolishes large parts of liberal-mecca California, DUmmies.
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I thought tornadoes only hit trailer parks. ::)
God hates trailer parks. It's in the Bible.
"Dwell not in thy aluminum huts, as thy father's did in Canaan." -- II Snuggle 3:18
Or something like that. I could be a bit off on the translation.
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The day these assclowns manage to maintain consistency in ONE single argument, just put the pillow over my face.
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Do they ever get that sometimes shit just happens? You roll the dice and choose somewhere to live and something once in a lifetime happens. It's the risk that comes with life. DUmmies would rather give up any freedom except to mooch, smoke pot, and mar thier bodies beyond recognition so that they can live in a 6x6 bubble with crib guards wrapped around their bed. I'll say it again...bad shit happens sometimes to waaaay better people then are sitting over there on that board. Best you can do is pick up the pieces and recover and your life as best possible. There isn't always someone you can draw law suit up against to blame, there just isn't, as frustrating as it is to individuals who never want to take responsibility for anything, but are quick to try to find responsibility for any tragedy everywhere else.
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The day these assclowns manage to maintain consistency in ONE single argument, just put the pillow over my face.
Get on the trolley grandpa. Use the drawstring tall kitchen trash bag. Slip it over the head, tie tightly above the larynx with a nice granny knot. More efficient and reliable. Geeze.
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Get on the trolley grandpa. Use the drawstring tall kitchen trash bag. Slip it over the head, tie tightly above the larynx with a nice granny knot. More efficient and reliable. Geeze.
:mental: :mental:
This is an age old problem for people that decide to fight the force of nature and do as the wish with no respect for mother nature.
Look at California and the idiots that build on the sides of hills that are venerable to mud slides----we watch every few years as these million dollar homes slide down the hills----darn who could have seen that coming?
One moves to an area where their are Tornado's a few times a year, brings in a double wide set on blocks, has it tied down and expects to by the Grace of God be spaired from any problem in the next 30 years.
In the State of Maine that Sparky feels is strange, as you head north you will find cellars that people live in while waiting to gather the money to put a house on top of them. This is a tax move as when the home is built the taxes go sky high, a tax on a celler hole home is very low.
I have been in some of them and they put my home to shame. One has to figure the cellar has the same sq footage as a one story home, every thing built above the cellar will be identical to the area of the cellar.
One has spent $20 grand for a water tight cellar, furnace, plumbing, electricity. Perhaps the top to the cellar has windows all around. Each year the cost of building a home over the cellar becomes more and more expensive, Lets put the home on hold for 5-6 years and improve the living quarters we have now.
Sheet rock the walls, follow the plans for the eventual home to be built up top. A couple extra bathrooms, perhaps sky lights in the top. Only thing missing are windows big ones, lots of small ones at the top of the Cellar.
What do these idiots in Maine get out of all this, rock bottom taxes for a cellar hole, problem with storms, NO, Problem with Hurricanes NO, Forest fires just board up the windows with metal fire plates and leave, the place may stink when one gets back but nothing is lost. Worried about unexpected floods, build on a slant so water can drain away from the home. People need to build according to the conditions of their area, adapt to the region and climate.
The most impressive one was Down Maine with a floor to ceiling field stone fireplace. The heat came from under the floor, the kitchen was top notch and had 3 bedrooms and 2 1/2 Full bathrooms.
The roof had sky lights and the owner had made a garden topside, Look up and see tomato plants growing near the window.
Cost for all this, $3000 for 4 acres, $15 thousand for the cellar hole to be put in place, another $1500 for the well to be dug and perhaps the same for the septic tank. what are we up to now for a home on 2 acres with lake frontage.
We are now at $21,000 about the cost of a new car. [Today ]
So far the cellar has been water proofed, the top has steal beam's little wood was used or trees harmed in the construction so far.
It took another 18 months to finish off the inside, the owners lived in a travel trailer as the home progressed. They did the work themselves and went very slowly.
The town and the tax man were ready to pounce so they made sure the town only taxed them on having a cellar hole they were forced to live in until they could afford to put a proper house or camp on top.
One thing leads to another, they found if they bought a shed at Walmart 8x10 and placed it atop of the roof, they could claim that the property was used as a hunting camp. Remember only above ground structures could be taxed.
Oh the ingenuity of the French residents in Maine.
Before you yell Bad Vesta, think about all the tax deductions you make, the tax exempt 401 K's and buying a car out of your state for the tax exemptions.
These people never broke any law, just lived within the law and made out like bandits.
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Vesta, Vesta, Vesta
I once knew a person who lived in a cellar hole for a protracted period of time while hubby drank himself silly every day and promised to finish the house. His liver gave out before the roof was up.
And that was the good part of the story. Dark, damp, and depressing is how it was described to me at the time, a living nightmare. The toilet didn't always 'flush up' the way it was supposed to. The poor wife was a total basket case long before hubby finally expired. Believe it or not she would rent a hotel room on occasion so she could look out a window. Sounds like a great way to live, not. :whatever:
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It's just these tornadoes happen to hit a populated. There are many tornadoes, but they often happen in rural and sparsely populated areas. If the Joplin Tornado was in a rural area, there would be little to loss of life and damage. :mental:
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So when a major earthquake hits California, we should just say they had what was coming to them since they built on a fault line? Should we not use natural resources like natural gas and coal when the Northeast has sub freezing weather for months on end since they had it coming to them since they chose to build in such an intemperate climate?
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.. Can't forget NOLA - Should we say this is what happens when you live in a city that has segments that are 6.5 feet below sea level ? With 'high ground' only about 20 feet above ? In a coastal, hurricane prone region ?
Because this is what the primitives are advocating - to paraphrase - 'If you are stupid enough to live in a dangerous place, then your suffering is your own damned fault' - and I'd say living below sea level on a planet that is 75 or so percent water-covered qualifies as 'pretty damned stupid'
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So when a major earthquake hits California, we should just say they had what was coming to them since they built on a fault line? Should we not use natural resources like natural gas and coal when the Northeast has sub freezing weather for months on end since they had it coming to them since they chose to build in such an intemperate climate?
Or the next wildfire that threatens to burn the million dollars homes of the wealthy liberals?
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This thread makes me think the DUmmies just need a good 5 year plan.
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xchrom
6. maybe we start with the notion that we can't just live where ever we want?
One thing for sure; we start AND end with the notion that liberals, of all people, are not, and will never be, the one's to make that kind of determination. Of course, that's true of any significant issue.
.
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“Historically, the central business districts of cities have not been hit that frequently,†he explained. But as you increase the land area covered by homes and businesses, he said, “you’re increasing the size of the dartboard.â€
This has to be one of the dumbest statements I've ever heard. Historically, tornadoes haven't hit any specific area frequently. ::)
The Joplin tornado didn't tear up "urban sprawl," it was all too close to downtown or it wouldn't have hit the hospital!
The Tuscaloosa tornado was just south of the University...with miles of town in both directions of it's path.
In tornado alley, there is NO guaranteed safe place, except underground. My great-grandparents homesteaded over 100 years ago, and in that 100+ years no tornado has ever come within seeing distance of their place...does that historical fact mean that none ever will?? :thatsright: :thatsright: :thatsright: :thatsright: :thatsright: Idiot.
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Yep, tornadoes never hit cities.
http://lubbockonline.com/tornado/stories/0512_morn.shtml
Story from May 12, 1970
Tornado Leaves Death, Rubble
By the Avalanche-Journal staff
A massive tornado ripped through the heart of downtown Lubbock late Monday night - leaving death, destruction in the millions, and a city badly crippled.
Oh wait, Ooops maybe they do, damn.
(BTW anyone who reads the whole article I used to live at 14th & Q several years later after they'd rebuilt)
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More proof we need government housing. The government wouldn't be stupid enough to put housing in the way of tornadoes. [DUmp/mode]
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More proof we need government housing. The government wouldn't be stupid enough to put housing in the way of tornadoes. [DUmp/mode]
Hopefully, the government would put the DUmb****s in Tornado Alley in FEMA trailers.
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Hopefully, the government would put the DUmb****s in Tornado Alley in FEMA trailers.
....with all the poisonous gases in them.
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More proof we need government housing. The government wouldn't be stupid enough to put housing in the way of tornadoes. [DUmp/mode]
I live in a HUD built house. Believe me, we are in the path...and HUD was too cheap to put basements in any of these places, or build a community shelter for the neighborhood they threw up. But then maybe they figured we were close enough to downtown, since tornadoes don't historically hit downtown areas. ::) ::)
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....with all the poisonous gases in them.
They'd learn to love the smell of formaldehyde in the morning! Smells like . . . well, it'd probably smell better than DUmb****s!
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Man, they really hate those malls, don't they? Must be an anti-corporate thingy.
The thing democrats hate about mall stores is all that state-of-the art security equipment.
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Obviously, Moscow-style apartment blocks with their embedded Ministry of Internal Security informants would be the Government-mandated lifestyle for all Americans, if the power to make that decision was left to our Liberal friends.
:hammer:
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So Primitives -- Here I am in Massachusetts, watching as the alerts pour in as tornadoes touch down in the Springfield Massachusetts area, and heading east, more or less down Rte 9 toward Framingham. Big cities. Old Cities. Democrat-filled Cities. Tornadoes.
What do you think of this ?
BTW, I'm probably out of the line of fire, though I do expect some nasty storm action tonight.
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So Primitives -- Here I am in Massachusetts, watching as the alerts pour in as tornadoes touch down in the Springfield Massachusetts area, and heading east, more or less down Rte 9 toward Framingham. Big cities. Old Cities. Democrat-filled Cities. Tornadoes.
What do you think of this ?
BTW, I'm probably out of the line of fire, though I do expect some nasty storm action tonight.
I'm watching the NECN live streaming. Yeah, those country bumpkins.../sarc
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Tornadoes do not hit BLUE states!!!! Lord Rove must have gotten the directional device on the tornado machine fixxed.
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Yeah, but gas stations are where we get so many of those fabulous Bouncies.
Nuther thing. We need a gas station on every corner in order to keep the muzzies in a contained area. Without gas stations, they'd be running wild.
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So Primitives -- Here I am in Massachusetts, watching as the alerts pour in as tornadoes touch down in the Springfield Massachusetts area, and heading east, more or less down Rte 9 toward Framingham. Big cities. Old Cities. Democrat-filled Cities. Tornadoes.
What do you think of this ?
BTW, I'm probably out of the line of fire, though I do expect some nasty storm action tonight.
I'm dyin' to find out if we qualify for those federal emergency bucks that somehow didn't go to Texas.
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I'm dyin' to find out if we qualify for those federal emergency bucks that somehow didn't go to Texas.
Doubt it. Masshole is solid blue. Nothing the muslim does could turn it red. Just like Texas is solid red. The jug-eared Kenyan will be infinitely more interested in helping swing states.
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Tornadoes do not hit BLUE states!!!! Lord Rove must have gotten the directional device on the tornado machine fixxed.
Trust me, there's tornadoes, and then there's TORNADOES. The ones in MA, while destructive and deadly, were piddly compared to Joplin and AL.
I shudder to think what would have happened had the Mass Pike been packed with commuters if a EF-4 or EF-5 had crossed the road yesterday.
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Absolutely true --
The devastation is less because of the tornadoes, and more because Springfield is full of old buildings that aren't designed with tornadoes in mind. The same would happen to Boston if a fairly large earthquake hit, as its just not prepared for it. (fairly large being a 5.0.. not the doozies that spring up around the Ring of Fire - and geologists have been claiming that one is due for years)