The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: SSG Snuggle Bunny on May 08, 2011, 08:24:33 AM
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I'm seeing this guy in other threads. He'll be worth a peek:
nxt1 (63 posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun May-08-11 02:44 AM
Original message
Have People Strayed Away from the Real Purpose of Education
I am curious to see what other people have to think on this issue which is hotly debated. College is now much more of a social event, 4 year long sleep away camp, for many students then it is a place to learn. Is it worth the 100+ thousand to send your kids to a sub-par university if they are going to end up partaking in unskilled labor anyway? Is a college degree the new high school degree?
XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun May-08-11 02:47 AM
Response to Original message
1. What do you think the purpose of college should be?
:shrug:
nxt1 (63 posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun May-08-11 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. To get an education
learn useful skills and hopefully learn enough to give back to society in a valuable way that makes the thousands of dollars more than worth it
Weird. I thought college was to learn skills to market yourself in the labor force so as to be self-reliant, not fashion yourself into just another cog in the statist machine.
"Society" is the liberal dog-whistle for "me"
That's why all their proposed policies have no bearing on self-reliance it's always somebody receiving something without effort on the beneficiaries part.
"It's good for society, that's why I'm a socialist!" which really means, "It's good for me, that's why I'm a me-ist."
IntravenousDemilo (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun May-08-11 06:03 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. Basically, the purpose of a university education is to teach kids to think.
A university shouldn't be regarded as a trade school or a community college. We already have trade schools for the purpose of learning job skills. A degree in Fine Arts or the Humanities is just as valuable as a degree in Business Administration, and I'd even venture to say that a Master's degree in Economics has about half the intellectual heft of a Bachelor's degree in History.
Education is there simply for its own sake, for people who find joy in learning. Universities exist as places for the broadening of the mind and the development of critical thought, and everything else is just fluff.
And they wonder why we think they're useless.
Quantified ass takes exception with the OP:
Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun May-08-11 02:55 AM
Response to Original message
3. **** you if you're trying to tell me college students are lazy sleep abouts,
which it looks like you're telling me.
joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun May-08-11 03:00 AM
Response to Original message
5. Public school teaches you to follow authority. Updated at 11:15 PM
College teaches you to question it.
Frankly I think it should be the other way around.
It's weird that colleges never teach you to question their authority.
themadstork (440 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun May-08-11 06:03 AM
Response to Original message
9. Of course we have
Edited on Sun May-08-11 06:05 AM by themadstork
The admin here at Butler could care less about the critical, aesthetic, analytic, and imaginative development of its students. They want the rich brats' dough.
There are still many profs with an authentic love for learning, but if one is determined to it's not hard to graduate college without ever developing as a thinker.
Hey, sooper inner-lecktural Thinkerbelle, the expression is "couldn't care less."
Even if you hadn't heard it correctly you should be able to analyze (anal-eyes?) the fact that "could care less" leaves room for concern but "couldN'T care less" means the subject is beyond caring.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1062380
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A kid raised on a farm has more marketable job skills than a DUmmie with any BA college degree and a lot of BS degrees.
Which of the above is most likely to use or demand some kind of government "help" during their lifetime?
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A kid raised on a farm has more marketable job skills than a DUmmie with any BA college degree and a lot of BS degrees.
Which of the above is most likely to use or demand some kind of government "help" during their lifetime?
Ain't that the truth, sir.
disclosure: I have a B.A. from the University of Nebraska, but at NO time during my stay in college did I ever entertain any delusions it would help me on the job-market.
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Even my degree will only become a factor should I go totally insane and choose to pursue a career in management.
My experience and attitude is what sets me above your vaunted college graduates.
And no, college is NOT a four-year party. In a public university, it's usually a five- to six-year party due to overcrowding of classes which are rarely available.
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Ain't that the truth, sir.
disclosure: I have a B.A. from the University of Nebraska, but at NO time during my stay in college did I ever entertain any delusions it would help me on the job-market.
Frank, I should have explained myself a little better. The farm kid has experiences in many fields that will allow him to find "a job" of some kind to sustain himself. The DUmmies with their degrees know basically one thing and when they can't find a "good job" in their field, the quit trying and just sit on their ass and whine. They refuse to learn a "labor(physical labor) intensive skill" and lower themselves to that level....they're to good to do manual labor...."I have a college degree. The world owes me."
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tammywammy (1000+ posts) Sun May-08-11 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
12. I'm in university now
A private school, I'm spending no where near $100k, and it's definitely not a "4 year long sleep away camp."
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Another Dummie "in university".
What university would that be, Dummie? Oxford? Cambridge?
You're going to college, Dummie. You're not in university. That's not how we say it here.
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Frank, I should have explained myself a little better. The farm kid has experiences in many fields that will allow him to find "a job" of some kind to sustain himself. The DUmmies with their degrees know basically one thing and when they can't find a "good job" in their field, they quit trying and just sit on their ass and whine. They refuse to learn a "labor (physical labor) intensive skill" and lower themselves to that level....they're to good to do manual labor...."I have a college degree. The world owes me."
You didn't need to explain yourself "a little better," sir.
I agree, as usual, with you.
<<unlike the elitist primitives, learned "labor intensive skills" so as to make a living.
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A degree in Fine Arts or the Humanities is just as valuable as a degree in Business Administration,
An accountant asks, "How much does it cost?"
An engineer asks, "How does it work?"
A liberal arts graduate asks, "Would you like fries with that?"
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An accountant asks, "How much does it cost?"
An engineer asks, "How does it work?"
A liberal arts graduate asks, "Would you like fries with that?"
Yes, essentially that's the way it works.
Thank God franksolich was not born with any reluctance to get his hands calloused.
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tammywammy (1000+ posts) Sun May-08-11 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
12. I'm in university now
A private school, I'm spending no where near $100k, and it's definitely not a "4 year long sleep away camp."
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We're talking over the course of your 5-6 years to obtain that oh-so-vaunted "Womyn's Studies" degree. And that's just out of YOUR pocket. Consider how much of state budgets go towards post-secondary education (hint: upwrds of 20 percent.) California alone in their 2011-12 budget wants to allocate $22 BILLION for post-secondary education (on top of the $63.8 BILLION for K-12 education). That comes out to $86 BILLION for ONE state, or nearly $11K per student.
And the little bastards STILL can't read, make change, or function at the most basic levels.
Read and weep:
http://www.ebudget.ca.gov/BudgetSummary/BSS/BSS.html
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Funny how you with your masters in lesbian, multicultural history will be serving burgers to me with the associates in nursing. :tongue:
I was majoring in history until I realized that I wanted to be able to eat and keep a roof over my head.
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And the little bastards STILL can't read, make change, or function at the most basic levels.
A proof of that statement in two words: Pam Dawson.
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Funny how you with your masters in lesbian, multicultural history will be serving burgers to me with the associates in nursing. :tongue:
I was majoring in history until I realized that I wanted to be able to eat and keep a roof over my head.
That's the governments responsibility....don't believe me? Just ask any DUmmie.
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That's the governments responsibility....don't believe me? Just ask any DUmmie.
I tried to think like a DUmmy but I couldn't. I am one of those strange people that is happy when I am tired at the end of the day because I worked hard. Just like yesterday DH and I took 3 loads of yard waste to the dump and did some major landscaping. Our back yard looks beautiful just in time to enjoy it from the kitchen window between the rain drops. :bawl:
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Hey AprilRazz:
Just like yesterday DH and I took 3 loads of yard waste to the dump and did some major landscaping
Does DH stand for Dear Husband? Does that mean you need to change your avatar? :-) :tongue:
Quantess (1000+ posts) Mon May-09-11 05:32 AM
Response to Reply #53
71. So, once again, you don't actually know.
You are just guessing how college students live.
And you are going to accuse me of being a lazy lay-about, while I was studying so hard I was barely getting a full night's sleep.
She's extremely defensive. I never pulled an all-nighter, and graduated MCL, in a "hard" major. So, she's just a DUmmie. I knew people like that. They figured if they just stayed up enough hours, it would be enough to do great on the test. They always got C- or worse.
Quantess (1000+ posts) Mon May-09-11 05:53 AM
Response to Reply #21
73. Doesn't that give me even more ammo to say **** YOU
I don't make nearly that much money. I have a Masters Degree and I made $10 per hour, last job I had. Don't worry about me, asshole, I have another country to go to.
Every other post she writes is "**** you, asshole." The domain of the intellectual. Yes, colleges are failing us.
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We're talking over the course of your 5-6 years to obtain that oh-so-vaunted "Womyn's Studies" degree. And that's just out of YOUR pocket. Consider how much of state budgets go towards post-secondary education (hint: upwrds of 20 percent.) California alone in their 2011-12 budget wants to allocate $22 BILLION for post-secondary education (on top of the $63.8 BILLION for K-12 education). That comes out to $86 BILLION for ONE state, or nearly $11K per student.
And the little bastards STILL can't read, make change, or function at the most basic levels.
Read and weep:
http://www.ebudget.ca.gov/BudgetSummary/BSS/BSS.html
I know tammywammy in real life. I'm suprized she said "university" but she isn't going to school for some useless degree. She isn't the typical DUer, she is a good person.
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Funny how you with your masters in lesbian, multicultural history will be serving burgers to me with the associates in nursing. :tongue:
I was majoring in history until I realized that I wanted to be able to eat and keep a roof over my head.
Sounds like my best buddy in law school. He had been two years into an English grad program at Duke, when they had an opening for a junior associate prof in the department. He said (Paraphrasing) "We got something like 1800 applications, many from established people with several published and successful books to their credit, and the job was a bottom rung, entry level academic post. I realized then that I would never get a job when I finished the program, and started applying to law schools."
:-)
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I know tammywammy in real life. I'm suprized she said "university" but she isn't going to school for some useless degree. She isn't the typical DUer, she is a good person.
Then why does she post at the DUmp?
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IMO, there should be no pell or other free gubmint money unless the person is getting a Bachelor of Science. I might take heat but a BA is next to worthless to a high school diploma and four...nay five years of work experience. A BA reality only gets you into the government system. It is just a very bad idea to fund more government employe...leaches while increasing the cost of educating people that could actually produce products.
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IMO, there should be no pell or other free gubmint money unless the person is getting a Bachelor of Science. I might take heat but a BA is next to worthless to a high school diploma and four...nay five years of work experience. A BA reality only gets you into the government system. It is just a very bad idea to fund more government employe...leaches while increasing the cost of educating people that could actually produce products.
It has gotten to the point that employers won't even look at applicants without a college degree for basic office jobs. Kind of difficult to get experience when you can't get in the door. I got a BA in History and I had a good job within 2 months of graduation, and I've held it for over 4 years now.
Granted, I'm current attending school part time and looking into nursing programs, and kicking myself for not going for a Bachelors of Science in Nursing when I started college, but that's life :wink:
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The whole point of college is to dumb down and kill any natural intelligence young people still have remaining after a lifetime of public education so as to be easier for the liberal/progressive/Marxists to exploit.
Obviously, there are some exceptions to this, such as Hillsdale that Mark Levin promotes. But for the most part, the point of college is to dumb down and make helpless. Just like firemen used to put out fires but now burn books.
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The whole point of college is to dumb down and kill any natural intelligence young people still have remaining after a lifetime of public education so as to be easier for the liberal/progressive/Marxists to exploit.
Obviously, there are some exceptions to this, such as Hillsdale that Mark Levin promotes. But for the most part, the point of college is to dumb down and make helpless. Just like firemen used to put out fires but now burn books.
Three of my cousins went to Hillsdale. They loved it :cheersmate:
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nxt1 (99 posts) Sun May-08-11 02:44 AM
Original message
Have People Strayed Away from the Real Purpose of Education
I am curious to see what other people have to think on this issue which is hotly debated. College is now much more of a social event, 4 year long sleep away camp, for many students then it is a place to learn. Is it worth the 100+ thousand to send your kids to a sub-par university if they are going to end up partaking in unskilled labor anyway? Is a college degree the new high school degree?
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I work for an agency of the federal government that is desperately seeking employees--openings are going unfilled for months on end. College degrees are required but it is not necessary for the degree to be related to the field of work--OJT is provided. Applicants do need to have at least 30 credit hours of math/science. But what kind of liberal arts degree doesn't have at least 30 credit hours that fits into the category of math and science? Not many, I think. These are decent paying jobs that start at the GS-7 level--not unskilled labor. You do need to have a pretty clean record--maybe that eliminates a lot of Dummies. A college graduate in America that can't find a job, even in this economy, is either a slug or too fussy--unwilling to relocate, only willing to work in the field of their degree, etc.
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Hey AprilRazz:
Does DH stand for Dear Husband? Does that mean you need to change your avatar? :-) :tongue:
Yes it does. But he is heading out for a year long school in a few weeks on the other side of the country. Only had him home from Cuba for a little over a month. It is the best career move he could make but it will take him out of the fine Commonwealth of Virginia where we enjoy out constitutional rights and straight into the liberal pit that is California.
Going to be hard for my conservative man who enjoys his second amendment rights to deal with the lunacy out there. But he managed to escape his native Connecticut and got to the south as fast as he could. So I am sure he can deal with it.
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Quantess (1000+ posts) Mon May-09-11 05:32 AM
Response to Reply #53
71. So, once again, you don't actually know.
You are just guessing how college students live.
And you are going to accuse me of being a lazy lay-about, while I was studying so hard I was barely getting a full night's sleep.
But a full night's sleep you still got.
I got three words for you, DUmmy: Nuclear. Power. School.
Trust me, compared to that, the average college student IS a lazy layabout.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Sun May-08-11 03:00 AM
Response to Original message
5. Public school teaches you to follow authority.
College teaches you to question it.
IntravenousDemilo (1000+ posts)
Sun May-08-11 06:03 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. Basically, the purpose of a university education is to teach kids to think.
A university shouldn't be regarded as a trade school or a community college. We already have trade schools for the purpose of learning job skills. A degree in Fine Arts or the Humanities is just as valuable as a degree in Business Administration, and I'd even venture to say that a Master's degree in Economics has about half the intellectual heft of a Bachelor's degree in History.
Education is there simply for its own sake, for people who find joy in learning. Universities exist as places for the broadening of the mind and the development of critical thought, and everything else is just fluff.
Quantess (1000+ posts)
Mon May-09-11 05:53 AM
Response to Reply #21
73. Doesn't that give me even more ammo to say **** YOU
I don't make nearly that much money. I have a Masters Degree and I made $10 per hour, last job I had. Don't worry about me, asshole, I have another country to go to.
And this, my dear friends, is one major reason why someone with military service schools and a couple of decades of experience (ie me) will make a butt-ton more a year than these sooper geniuses who continue to wallow in their own misery and failed lives.
Hey, DUmbass losers, did you know that your college educated selves will still be busing my table, making my fries, and ringing up my groceries no matter how many useless degrees you have? Did you know that any college education that I get is icing on what I have now? Does it bother you that employers will hire me (education, experience, honorably discharged veteran) long before they even think of hiring you?
How about it, DUmmies, does it bother you that I didn't squander my youth but instead took education and work seriously while you didn't? Whaddya say, $10/hour master educated mouth-breathers? You know I'd love to hear from you.... :evillaugh:
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Quantess (1000+ posts)
Mon May-09-11 05:53 AM
Response to Reply #21
73. Doesn't that give me even more ammo to say **** YOU
I don't make nearly that much money. I have a Masters Degree and I made $10 per hour, last job I had. Don't worry about me, asshole, I have another country to go to.
\
I'm sure you were worth almost every penny of it, too. And don't let the screen door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya.
:popcorn:
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Sun May-08-11 03:00 AM
Response to Original message
5. Public school teaches you to follow authority.
College teaches you to question it.
As a current college student, allow me to respond. *Clears throat...* Bullshit. It's been nothing but one big suckfest of accepting anything and everything uncritically as long as it fits into some defined, usually liberal, dogma. You're taught to question conservative thought, but lord help you if you question the ideas of liberals or academics. Try questioning a professor, see how that works... Tell you one thing, wish I had been good enough at science so I could have kept going in Med Tech. At least there, you don't really have to deal with opinion, just hard, provable numbers.
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Another Dummie "in university".
What university would that be, Dummie? Oxford? Cambridge?
You're going to college, Dummie. You're not in university. That's not how we say it here.
University because the school I attend is named Such and Such University. It's a conservative private business school.
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I know tammywammy in real life. I'm suprized she said "university" but she isn't going to school for some useless degree. She isn't the typical DUer, she is a good person.
Thank you BEG. I hope you are doing well.
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Funny how you with your masters in lesbian, multicultural history will be serving burgers to me with the associates in nursing. :tongue:
I was majoring in history until I realized that I wanted to be able to eat and keep a roof over my head.
One of my nephews graduated from a 4-year college with a degree in :doh: History. His mom (my sister) got pissed off when I pointed out how impractical this degree would be in the real world.
He's now 2 years into the Navy as a lower enlisted sailor. Sorry, I never could figure out the Navy's rank structure-Air Force was hard enough for an old Army broad like me.
The bright side of the story is, unlike many DUmmies majoring in untenable fields, my nephew is serving his country honorably instead of serving customers french fries.
NOT, I should hasten to add, that there's a damn thing wrong with working fast food. My respect and admiration for those who chose to work, as opposed to being leeches on society's collective ass is neverending.
Personally, I think 3/4ths of college kids today will do as well, or poorly, as those who don't attend. My children versus their college educated cousins are cases in point.
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One of my nephews graduated from a 4-year college with a degree in History. His mom (my sister) got pissed off when I pointed out how impractical this degree would be in the real world.
Graduating with a bachelor's degree in some hippie dippy liberal arts major is fine, but only if you follow up with a huge LSAT score.
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Graduating with a bachelor's degree in some hippie dippy liberal arts major is fine, but only if you follow up with a huge LSAT score.
My sister got all pissed off when I pointed out how useless her son's degree was gonna be. Oh well, at least he has four years (or a career) in the Navy to pay the student loans off. :p
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I work for an agency of the federal government that is desperately seeking employees--openings are going unfilled for months on end. College degrees are required but it is not necessary for the degree to be related to the field of work--OJT is provided. Applicants do need to have at least 30 credit hours of math/science. But what kind of liberal arts degree doesn't have at least 30 credit hours that fits into the category of math and science? Not many, I think. These are decent paying jobs that start at the GS-7 level--not unskilled labor. You do need to have a pretty clean record--maybe that eliminates a lot of Dummies. A college graduate in America that can't find a job, even in this economy, is either a slug or too fussy--unwilling to relocate, only willing to work in the field of their degree, etc.
Drug tests kill a lot of the DumpMonkies chances of ever getting a job.
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University because the school I attend is named Such and Such University. It's a conservative private business school.
Where have you been hiding?
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Where have you been hiding?
Here and there. I'm pretty busy with work and school (you know, university). I happened to drop in today and saw I was quoted, so thought I'd reply.
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Here and there. I'm pretty busy with work and school (you know, university). I happened to drop in today and saw I was quoted, so thought I'd reply.
I didn't know that way your name at DU.
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I didn't know that way your name at DU.
That's me. I figure there's no reason to keep it secret anymore.
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And this, my dear friends, is one major reason why someone with military service schools and a couple of decades of experience (ie me) will make a butt-ton more a year than these sooper geniuses who continue to wallow in their own misery and failed lives.
Hey, DUmbass losers, did you know that your college educated selves will still be busing my table, making my fries, and ringing up my groceries no matter how many useless degrees you have? Did you know that any college education that I get is icing on what I have now? Does it bother you that employers will hire me (education, experience, honorably discharged veteran) long before they even think of hiring you?
How about it, DUmmies, does it bother you that I didn't squander my youth but instead took education and work seriously while you didn't? Whaddya say, $10/hour master educated mouth-breathers? You know I'd love to hear from you.... :evillaugh:
Of all those in my class right now I am the only vet. With the exception of all the paperwork that has to be done nursing school has been a breeze. I have practiced at a level far above what the average RN does for several years while I was a Corpsman so I was well prepared. Finding a good job right out of school (graduating debt free) is not going to be an issue.
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That's me. I figure there's no reason to keep it secret anymore.
Considering that you may (or maybe not) have a dilemma with getting your textbooks electronically, I think this link may be useful:
http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/College-Textbooks-Set-to-Go-Electronic/RHLhC8fwJEmkelNEOeG7yg.cspx