The Conservative Cave
Current Events => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chris_ on April 27, 2011, 12:50:36 PM
-
By Peter Moskos
A crazy idea came from a dinner in New Orleans. I had cold-called (or whatever the e-mail equivalent is) a writer and his wife because I was a fan of his work and thought we had much in common. They were gracious enough to arrange a meal and treat me, without much justification, as a professional equal more than a stalker. The conversation turned to corporal punishment in public schools. They were amazed not that such a peculiarity existed in a city ripe with oddities, but that such illegal punishments were administered at the urging of and with the full consent of the students' parents.
"Fascinating," I drolly replied, but I wasn't shocked. If I'd learned one thing as a police officer patrolling a poor neighborhood, it was the working- and lower-class populations' great fondness for corporal punishment. No punishment is as easy or seemingly satisfying as a physical beating. I learned this not because I beat people, but because the good citizens I swore to serve and protect often urged me to do so. It wasn't hard for me to resist (I liked my job, and besides, I wasn't raised that way), but I agreed that many of the disrespectful hoodlums deserved a beating. Why? Because, as the old-school thinking goes, when people do wrong, they deserve to be punished.
For most of the past two centuries, at least in so-called civilized societies, the ideal of punishment has been replaced by the hope of rehabilitation. The American penitentiary system was invented to replace punishment with "cure." Prisons were built around the noble ideas of rehabilitation. In society, at least in liberal society, we're supposed to be above punishment, as if punishment were somehow beneath us.
(more...)
The Chronicle of Higher Education (http://chronicle.com/article/In-Defense-of-Flogging/127208/?sid=at&utm_source=at&utm_medium=en)
I was just thinking of this the other day. It might alleviate some of the crowded jails that city and county governments are always clamoring for more money to fund. I suppose it would have to be offered as an alternative to a jail sentence... you can't just order someone to be flogged anymore or else Jessie and Al would be knocking on your door in a heartbeat. Hold them in public, and you could sell tickets.
:popcorn:
-
Punishment needs to be that. Punishment.
-
Jails are overcrowded and once they serve their time they re-offend and return to jail. Flogging would be a good idea.
-
Jails are overcrowded and once they serve their time they re-offend and return to jail. Flogging would be a good idea.
Flogging is a mild punishment in my mind.
-
Flogging is a mild punishment in my mind.
Which makes it suitable for many of the minor offenses that clog up the jail system these days - drug possession, 1st offense DUI (assuming no injuries resulting), vandalism/criminal mischief, minor in possession... In other words all the bureaucratic crap that many of us can wind up spending a little time in the grey-bar hotel for.
-
Flogging is a mild punishment in my mind.
Have you ever had a belt across your ass, back & legs??
-
Have you ever had a belt across your ass, back & legs??
Yup. It has been a large factor in keeping me from committing all of those minor offenses I mentioned above.
I'll sit down and stop interrupting now. :popcorn:
-
People dismiss "the old ways" simply because they were the old ways. But these same people fail to realize that what they are reading was not old in its day. Pre-history stretched for millennium and the ancients may have lacked a written record but they were fully cognizant of it.
They were well aware the horrors of war, diplomacy, crime and punishment. When humanity emerged it was tabla rasa. All could be tried and must assuredly all was tried. What we see recorded in ancient history was not born of cruelty but harsh necessity.
Humanity is still as greedy, lethargic, duplicitous, murderous and rapacious as ever...
...now he just has a smart phone that automatically updates his favorite playoff game scores.
-
Make'em bleed :drool:
-
Have you ever had a belt across your ass, back & legs??
Yes I have, and I have the scars to prove it. Literally. And, I agree with D6, for minor infractions, I think flogging would be a good option. For more serious offenses not so much.
-
Judge Roy Bean of the South West took no shit. Most likely 1/4 of those people hanged were innocent, but the other 3/4 were guilty as hell.
Why is the 6 gun of the west called Peace Makers.???
My town back in the early 1700 had a flogging post in the town square, about the only people flogged were the slave owners that mistreated their slaves. One or two of the slave owners were black the rest white ,
Yes we did have up north laws on the keeping of slaves and if a owner harmed them he was subject to the lash.
Flogging has been acceptable for hundreds of years taking a lazy no good son to the wood shed for a bite of the shaving strap was the norm. Either the kid conformed and settled down or in the 1800's placed in insane asylums for the non conformists.
In my generation I have seen kids in public schools paddled, hit on the knuckles and even hit with a belt.
Jump ahead to 30+ years later and out come storeys of schools that beat the kids so bad they were paralysed, locked into time out rooms with no windows, then the horror storeys of what went on in the facilities to retrain the considered UN manageable youth. Rape, beatings and death.
Heaven help us as to storeys of schools that were for the blind or deaf.
Can flogging actually give punishment to people, perhaps one or two strokes of the whip, any more then that leads to the person becoming worse and the Flogger more animal.
Remember a few years ago when an American male of 20 or so was in Singapore, he knew the rules of the city and state. For some crazy reason he decided to place graffiti I believe, about and was arrested
His parents were sort of wealthy and when their son was sentinced to 10 lashes the family went nuts. They got everyone he knew in the state department to protest and finally as last resort begged the court to allow the father to be flogged instead of his son.
How much more can one show their love for their children????
Out come was the boy said he had received one lash and came home. Friends and family said the mark on the boys buttocks was like the mark one may get from sleeping on a fold in the bed sheets.
The boy was not out of the news for long, arrests and what have you after 6 months home, The kid was a freeken brat.
Out come had the parents made a deal with Singapore to give the boy just 3 lashes or 4, the kid may have come home in a different mind set. As it was the kid ran about real proud of his getting off so lightly.
Not the kids fault but the parents that would do anything to protect him, gave the kid a clear field to do as he pleased. The kid was a jerk, the parents devastated at their child coming home and getting into more trouble here.
There are a few times these old civilisations have a handle on how to controll their society against the nut jobs that pop up into every family every 2 generatons .
-
Bullshit, Vesta. The beatings I suffered under my step-dad didn't make me improve one iota. All it did was make me fear him. If anything, it made me have low self-esteem, created a LOT of resentment, made me become more violent & even criminal (although I didn't get caught with most of my escapades). It didn't help that I was hanging out with the wrong kind of people. What got me out of trouble was getting away from him, my "friends" and just plain growing up. I'm not an advocate on non-corporal punishment, but there becomes a point when it does more harm than good.
-
Bullshit, Vesta. The beatings I suffered under my step-dad didn't make me improve one iota. All it did was make me fear him. If anything, it made me have low self-esteem, created a LOT of resentment, made me become more violent & even criminal (although I didn't get caught with most of my escapades). It didn't help that I was hanging out with the wrong kind of people. What got me out of trouble was getting away from him, my "friends" and just plain growing up. I'm not an advocate on non-corporal punishment, but there becomes a point when it does more harm than good.
Thor, the point is not private humiliation or child abuse, we are speaking of adults that have broken the law by their own will. True children may be taken to the wood shed and given a whack or two but beating them up will cause resentment as you said.
Interesting you mention you hung out with the wrong people, did it ever occur to you that you also were the wrong kind of kid to hang out with.
You are not alone there are millions of kids out there male and female that escaped for their own reasons of and made a good life for them selves, became people of note in the comunity and lived a good life
What the **** are we to do, we have a huge prison here in New Hampshire that is freeking empty for lack of state funds. Feds are spending money to do what they do and can not cover us for the cost to open it. Mean while we have to spend big bucks just to maintain the complex that is empty.
The county jails are overflowing to the point that the active prisons have no room for them and the county's are letting people go to make way for the next group of nasties.
Here we have a multi million dollar brand new facility and it is ****ing empty.
Kind of reminds me of that Linsey problem that she cannot go to jail due to over crowding. She is just to beautiful, rich and talented to go to jail.