The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: GOBUCKS on April 26, 2011, 12:37:18 PM
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This is a huge bonfire, where swarms of DUmmies argue about acceptable and unacceptable ways to speak with perverts of every stripe and flavor. Wait, strike that reference to "flavor".
JackBeck (1000+ posts) Sun Apr-24-11 07:54 PM
Original message
There has been a lot of transgender bigotry around here the past few days.
First, the term 'transgendered' is not how the community commonly refers to themselves. Using the past-tense of transgender implies that someone has completed sex reassignment therapy (SRT). Most trans people will never experience a completed transition due to how expensive the process is and because insurance doesn't cover the entire cost. Or they may simply chose not to engage in SRT. The choice is entirely up to the individual. Using phrases like 'sex change' should also be avoided due to its focus on the surgical aspect of SRT. Transitioning for trans people is more than just an alignment of their genitals with their gender.
Secondly, calling a trans man or trans woman 'not truly' or 'not entirely' female or male is extremely offensive to a trans person. Trans individuals run the spectrum of gender alignment and just because one doesn't 'pass' for their gender identity as well as someone else may 'pass' doesn't make them any less male or female.
Another thing to avoid is speculating whether or not a trans person is merely someone just cross-dressing to access a bathroom in order to sexually assault someone. This tactic has been used more and more over the past few years by anti-LGBT organizations to scare people to vote against trans-inclusive legislation. The main reason why the Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA) did not pass last year was because it was held-up by the right wing over bathroom language on how to accommodate trans people in bathrooms and changing rooms.
Again, I think most people have been acting in good faith and have been mostly sensitive to the trans woman attacked at the Baltimore County McDonald's. But moving forward, let's be more aware of the language we use and its possible implications.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x953864
When the legislation most important to you is held up by "bathroom language", that's a pretty good sign you're a pervert.
FreeState (1000+ posts) Sun Apr-24-11 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I counted over 10 in Just one thread alone
There were a lot of posts the last few days that were over the top disgusting and hateful towards the Trans community. DU has a history of problems when it comes to the Trans community. It has gotten a lot better than it use to be but there is a lot of work still to do on understanding and viewing our trans brothers and sisters as 100% equal even here on DU.
The Philosopher (453 posts) Sun Apr-24-11 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #34
48. The Doctor
You imply that there hasn't been any form of discrimination or "form of intolerance" against the LGBT community, using the phrase "Name one DUer." As if the mods have never had to delete posts, ban users, or that there hasn't been a discussion between the LGBT community here at DU and Skinner about the hard and soft bigotry among the membership of the site; and the mistakes made by the Admins and mods (and users). It's disgusting to use a hyperbole ("...most GLBT friendly sites on Earth.") to wash away the LGBT community's history here.
"Hard and soft bigotry"?? I really hate the term, but here it is: Eeeewwww.
Danger Mouse (1000+ posts) Sun Apr-24-11 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. To say nothing of people referring to Ann Coulter as a man..
As a moderator, I've removed posts like that a LOT. And not from trolls, but from longtime DUer's who don't realize that saying those kinds of things is quite hurtful.
The Doctor. (1000+ posts) Sun Apr-24-11 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
37. It was an excellent OP. You'll get no argument there.
Calling people who simply don't know that the past tense of 'transgender' means something particular 'bigoted' or 'homophobic' is entirely intolerant of you.
Not everyone invests themselves in understanding protocols they are not familiar with. Why? Because they didn't know there was a protocol to begin with.
Is that something like the "democrat party"?
JackBeck (1000+ posts) Sun Apr-24-11 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. Bigotry exists on multiple levels.
Would you agree or disagree that someone can be a bigot without knowing they are one?
Years ago I used the past-tense of transgender and completely realize now that I was a trans bigot for doing so.
As cisgender individuals, our unearned non-trans privilege allows us to perpetrate bigotry even when we think we are not being offensive. As long as we acknowledge we're on a path to greater learning and acceptance, we can then work on minimizing our own internal bigotries.
Holy cow! They've taken chemistry beyond their drug habits! Now they have both trans- and cis- genders! Perverted stereoisomers! Does this mean they have to add a "C" to their alphabet soup of sexual perversions? Are they the LBGTQPDSMBC....community? LS/MFT.
Fire1 (1000+ posts) Sun Apr-24-11 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
12. So we should refer to a trans male as female and vice versa?
Seems easier not to say anything at all.
It's all so confusing! What should we call them?
Where I come from, "weirdo" always worked. I guess now "democrat" would be okay.
JackBeck (1000+ posts) Sun Apr-24-11 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
28. Someone who was assigned the sex of 'male' at birth by a doctor
but who now identifies as a female is a transgender female, or may simply identify as female.
If a person was assigned the sex of female at birth, but now identifies as male, they are a transgender man, or may identify as male.
Ultimately, we should just mirror back to someone how they identify to us.
JANdad (1000+ posts) Sun Apr-24-11 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. I'm sorry....doctors "assign" gender?
I could have sworn that the little bits between the legs determined ones gender????? I cannot keep up anymore....
JANdad (1000+ posts) Sun Apr-24-11 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. So one having been born with a penis does not automatically
a male make?
JackBeck (1000+ posts) Sun Apr-24-11 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. No.
It appears you have a lot to learn about gender identity and gender expression. Plus, someone who is presenting with genitals attributed to one particular sex may also be intersex.
Aaarrrrgh! Intersex! Now we have to add an "I" to the DUmp's alphabet soup of perversions!!
JackBeck (1000+ posts) Sun Apr-24-11 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #40
46. The fact that you don't distinguish between sexuality and gender
makes me question your "fairly well qualified to answer some of them" caveat.
This DUmmy JackBeck is becoming one of the uppity-type of troublemaker homo that ends up whining with the smug snots at OET.
Aerows (937 posts) Sun Apr-24-11 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
39. Thank you for the information
I'm a lesbian, and would never intentionally wish to offend anyone in the transgender community, but even I didn't know there was a difference between using the terms transgendered and transgender. I certainly didn't know it was offensive.
JackBeck (1000+ posts) Sun Apr-24-11 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. As a white, non-trans gay male
I work very hard to keep my own privileges in check so that I can continue to be a true social justice advocate. I've made mistakes too, no one is perfect, and have seen anti-trans attitudes even within our own community.
blondeatlast (1000+ posts) Sun Apr-24-11 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
61. Very proud to say a recent DU guest was 86ed yesterday for the silly, paranoid bathroom
thing and the obvious hatred for a particular gender.
DUmmies are especially sensitive to any restrictions placed on bathroom activities.
To most DUmp democrats, public bathrooms are romantic destinations.
It's where they go to find their "partners".
flvegan (1000+ posts) Mon Apr-25-11 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
76. Jack, I've long considered you my friend.
I think your OP is dead spot on. It's a shame that we've seen some of THE responses here. I don't doubt that you didn't expect stupidity. I hope that morons don't cause you to shy away from making these posts when you do
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JackBeck (1000+ posts) Mon Apr-25-11 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #76
90. The feeling is mutual, brother.
Truth be told, right after I posted the OP I remarked to the hubby, 'let the hate parade begin.'
For the seond time in one thread, "Eeeewwww."
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I saw that thread earlier, and as it was, it made me twist my head off. It has apparently grown and blossomed over there in the DUng heap.
I thought this was a nice little encapsulation of a DUmmy:
As a white, non-trans gay male, I work very hard to keep my own privileges in check so that I can continue to be a true social justice advocate.
::) Self-important wanker.
I remarked to the hubby
Oh Good Lord.
I still don't know what a cisgender is, and I don't want to know, or care.
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I still don't know what a cisgender is, and I don't want to know, or care.
The only thing I can think of would be some sort of utilization of the "trans-" and "cis-" adjectives for certain chemical compounds.
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I still don't know what a cisgender is, and I don't want to know, or care.
Well, aside from any chemical considerations, every democrat male I see on TV (I almost never see one in person), appears to be a total cissy. So it may just be a matter of spelling.
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The only thing I can think of would be some sort of utilization of the "trans-" and "cis-" adjectives for certain chemical compounds.
I looked it up. It means normal. Using DU PC newspeak, untransgender(ed).
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JackBeck (1000+ posts) Sun Apr-24-11 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. As a white, non-trans gay male
I work very hard to keep my own privileges in check so that I can continue to be a true social justice advocate.
Useful idiot.
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I looked it up. It means normal. Using DU PC newspeak, untransgender(ed).
Now that's funny. They have to come up with a word for normal people because if you call us normal people that would mean that they are something other than normal aka abnormal.
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You can call a piece of shit a Hershey bar, but that doesn't make it one.
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Well, aside from any chemical considerations, every democrat male I see on TV (I almost never see one in person), appears to be a total cissy. So it may just be a matter of spelling.
:lol: H5
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i don't know the protocol of correctly referring to a faggot queer by any other name but faggot queer. I guess I'm just not PC enough to satisfy the DU crowd.
I'll get over it.
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There's only 4 types. Straight, Ghey, Bi and Try. The rest of the alphabet soup all falls under the latter.
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Holy shit those people should publish a freaking dictionary of different body mutilations to keep us all in check. How about stop being such a ***** about labels. How about stop labeling yourself!?!?!?! How about instead of "Hi I am a bisexual transgender monkey who is into the enviroment, furries, and antiques", you just say "Hi my name is Bob."
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I'm so tired of this term and that term being offensive, there's always going to be a word that could be offensive if someone lacks confidence and is always on guard. Buck up!
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There's only 4 types. Straight, Ghey, Bi and Try. The rest of the alphabet soup all falls under the latter.
There's only 2. Straight and Queer. All that alphabet soup is just a subterfuge to avoid the truth.
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There's only 2. Straight and Queer. All that alphabet soup is just a subterfuge to avoid the truth.
UndergroundPanther? Other?
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UndergroundPanther? Other?
Clearly and sincerely queer.
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UndergroundPanther? Other?
Not "funny haha".
Definitely "funny QUEER".
Very queer...
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Obama is busy destroying the country and the DUmmies are debating lifestyle choices. And yes, it is a choice. Make a bad choice, don't expect everyone to cater to your sensitive sensibilities.
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JackBeck (1000+ posts) Sun Apr-24-11 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. Bigotry exists on multiple levels.
Would you agree or disagree that someone can be a bigot without knowing they are one? Years ago I used the past-tense of transgender and completely realize now that I was a trans bigot for doing so. Stop sounding like such a fag! :catfight: :catfight:
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It must suck to not know what you can and can't say. Such is the life of a liberal. Past-tense transgender or transgendered, hmmm...which one wont offend the gender confused person?!? They must have to carry around the latest, up to date, liberal dictionary.
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It must suck to not know what you can and can't say. Such is the life of a liberal. Past-tense transgender or transgendered, hmmm...which one wont offend the gender confused person?!? They must have to carry around the latest, up to date, liberal dictionary.
If you think that's bad, try learning German. :wink:
Gender-related and past/present verbiage... it's enough to drive any decent Englishman to ruin. You can live your entire life and not learn the German language.
"Whenever the literary German dives into a sentence, that is the last you are going to see of him till he emerges on the other side of his Atlantic with his verb in his mouth." -- Mark Twain.
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If you think that's bad, try learning German. :wink:
Gender-related and past/present verbiage...
Try Japanese, where men and women must use different words for the same things, and different speech patterns. Learning Japanese or Mandarin must be among the most difficult things a human brain can do.
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Try Japanese, where men and women must use different words for the same things, and different speech patterns. Learning Japanese or Mandarin must be among the most difficult things a human brain can do.
I didn't think of that. If it's anything like Chinese, not only do you have past/present and gender, there are also social constructs to consider. God forbid you address your future grandfather as a Lowai.
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Another thing to avoid is speculating whether or not a trans person is merely someone just cross-dressing to access a bathroom in order to sexually assault someone. This tactic has been used more and more over the past few years by anti-LGBT organizations to scare people to vote against trans-inclusive legislation.
Um...anybody else ever see anything in the news about this?? Not I.
I ask you to back up your clain, or STFU, twink.
JANdad (1000+ posts) Sun Apr-24-11 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. So one having been born with a penis does not automatically
a male make?
Um...apparently not in DUmor Land...:shocked:
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Um...anybody else ever see anything in the news about this?? Not I.
I ask you to back up your clain, or STFU, twink.
Not really, but I've seen plenty (more than 2 locally) of examples of perverts doing exactly what this DUmbass is claiming is no more than homophobic propaganda. And if there was enough evidence for a moonbat judge in Denver to convict the perv, you know it had to be BAD.
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BTW, GOBUCKS, didn't you mean
Edicate
in your thread title?
:lmao:
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Again, we used to commit mental patients.
Whatever happened to that?
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Again, we used to commit mental patients.
Whatever happened to that?
They took over the asylum.
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See, here's what gets me. When I was in highschool back in the 80s, the word "gay" lost its definition of "happy" and was replaced by "likes doing it in the ass with the chance of a reacharound."
Now these same folks that have redefined the words want to become the language police, even more obnoxiously than the French.
Too bad, our language doesn't work that way. The word "gay" is rapidly redefining as "stupid." Complaining about that shit is just gay.
:-)
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If you think that's bad, try learning German. :wink:
Gender-related and past/present verbiage... it's enough to drive any decent Englishman to ruin. You can live your entire life and not learn the German language.
"Whenever the literary German dives into a sentence, that is the last you are going to see of him till he emerges on the other side of his Atlantic with his verb in his mouth." -- Mark Twain.
Russian. Two more cases than German, an additional alternative type of feminine gender construction, a whole lot fewer cognates, no present tense conjugation of the verb "To be," and a totally different alphabet. The syntax is not as hard to follow as German, though.
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BTW, GOBUCKS, didn't you mean in your thread title?
:lmao:
I considered that, and almost wrote it that way, then decided it wouldn't be consistent with the aura of tolerance and acceptance that surrounds me.
I also knew it would not go unnoticed.
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The OP talks about the expense of sex reassignment surgery...
...but then they always complain it's too expensive to for life-saving medical care.
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The OP talks about the expense of sex reassignment surgery...
...but then they always complain it's too expensive to for life-saving medical care.
All a matter of priorities, Sgt. Bunny, sir. Their ability to mutilate themselves - at taxpayer expense, preferably - is a priority, while they couldn't care less whether you, I or Granny lived or died.